mtgox and bruce wagner

[MagicalTux]

Yeah i'm a troll because I don't think Bruce is trustworthy, and I don't think anyone in the Bitcoin community should associate with him.  
Also yeah, I know a little javascript. Throw me in the brig!

You are a troll because you are trying to force others to follow your game. While I don't like following people in their game, especially when they act as a dumb mob acting on someone's agenda, you have a point by bringing to light some bad things.

I will act for the best of my employees, the company and bitcoin.

[Stalin-chan]

If we don't act against those who seek to destroy bitcoins how will bitcoins ever succeed? If you read my longer post a page back I make perfectly valid points.

I am simply encouraging those who do not support mr. Wagner to not support his affiliates who send him money. It is nothing personal against you.

Also you say you want to do what's best for your employees and bitcoins, but what about your costumers who do not agree with you supporting a man who has ruined many peoples lives.

And that really isn't what a troll is not to mention the fact that I have no agenda other than helping Bitcoin and the consumers who use it...

[Raoul Duke]

If we don't act against those who seek to destroy bitcoins how will bitcoins ever succeed? If you read my longer post a page back I make perfectly valid points.

I am simply encouraging those who do not support mr. Wagner to not support his affiliates who send him money. It is nothing personal against you.

Also you say you want to do what's best for your employees and bitcoins, but what about your costumers who do not agree with you supporting a man who has ruined many peoples lives.

And that really isn't what a troll is not to mention the fact that I have no agenda other than helping Bitcoin and the consumers who use it...

No dude, the one's that feel Bruce was in the wrong will stop supporting it on their own and not because YOU THINK it's the best to the community.

Have you ever been wrong before about something you thought was certain, yet, it turned out to be the complete opposite?

If that was your only purpose you would just post your OPINION and leave the discussion to others, here and there saying what you think, not try to convince others by force to accept your ideas, because you are surely not accepting others ideas.

Hell, I'm trollish sometimes and you'll see that by looking at my post history. So maybe i should start trolling you instead and make you change your mind by force, and if it doesn't happen so, I'll just bug you non-stop about it, exactly using your method, even after you explained me your position clearly.

Would you want that?


PS: I'm fuc*** sorry that my reply will only put this thread upper on the unread thread list, because that's just what you want by now.

[BlockHash]

Yeah i'm a troll because I don't think Bruce is trustworthy, and I don't think anyone in the Bitcoin community should associate with him.  
Also yeah, I know a little javascript. Throw me in the brig!

You are a troll because you are trying to force others to follow your game. While I don't like following people in their game, especially when they act as a dumb mob acting on someone's agenda, you have a point by bringing to light some bad things.

I will act for the best of my employees, the company and bitcoin.

I can respect that.

However, I will not be doing business with projects or companies that support or endorse Mr. Wagner. The incidence of major mortgage fraud and other shady activities is too much for me to accept. I wouldn't do business with or support someone like Ken Lay (not that I could, he's dead), Michael Milliken, Richard Scrushy, or anyone from Bear-Stearns no matter how sincere they may seem. Further, the fact that court documents are being denied is just mind-blowing.

While my dealings in BitCoin are still relatively small at the moment, I still feel that it is crucial for us to take a stand against scams and con artists because this currency is still in its infancy. If this kind of thing continues, I doubt the long-term viability of the currency because of the stigmas that will have been attached to it.

Good luck to you, sir.

[Stalin-chan]

...

 No, wrong. The point of a debate is to convince the other party to change their opinion. Frankly we have won this debate and now you are just being stubborn.
 If you have a good reason we should give Bruce our money (which is what happens when you give service to Mtgox) then by all means lets hear it.

I can respect that.

However, I will not be doing business with projects or companies that support or endorse Mr. Wagner. The incidence of major mortgage fraud and other shady activities is too much for me to accept. I wouldn't do business with or support someone like Ken Lay (not that I could, he's dead), Michael Milliken, Richard Scrushy, or anyone from Bear-Stearns no matter how sincere they may seem. Further, the fact that court documents are being denied is just mind-blowing.

While my dealings in BitCoin are still relatively small at the moment, I still feel that it is crucial for us to take a stand against scams and con artists because this currency is still in its infancy. If this kind of thing continues, I doubt the long-term viability of the currency because of the stigmas that will have been attached to it.

Good luck to you, sir.

This sums up how I feel quite nicely.

[someotherguy]

My first post yes. Been reading the forums for ages. But I feel it neccessary to state one simple demand to mtgox and the current situation about bruce wagner. Please stop sponsoring this proven con man (and most likely affiliated with mybitcoin.com - tod williams tom williams). I desire an official statement from mtgox that they are in no way associated with this asshole. If that is not possible to produce then one question is left, why? The reason for this post is Bruce Wagners latest bitcoin show where he states that he is in tokyo to visit mtgox. Make it official that this guy is in no way on the good side with bitcoins biggest trading site.

And please no posts that this is a newbs forum, first post so no choice on my part. I had to make this post to relieve my worries about the continuation of being affiliated with this scammer.

This is not an official statement, there is not enough information at this point for such a thing. I'll try to expose our views at this point.

For information we are not "sponsoring" Bruce Wagner, we are buying advertising on the Bitcoin Show as many others have been doing or are doing, which was (until now) the only show about bitcoins to have enough viewers to start to be interesting.

Many new things have appeared during on the forum during the past 2 or 3 days, so I'll list - quickly - those here:

• About thailand "boys", the evidence produced so far is far from being anything to worry about. We know Bruce is homosexual, as he's open about this, but this has nothing to do with bitcoins. It seems from what I saw that Thailand is more "gay-friendly" than USA and it could explain Bruce's presence there and why he likes that country. Anyway without more evidence there is nothing we can decide there.
• Bruce ran Bold Funding, which was unable to do what it claims to do. He was caught and judged for this, and I believe the justice does its thing. I know Bruce have been handling a lot of funds for bitcoin users while promoting it, and I never heard of him running with someone's cash (would have been easy enough). I didn't know what he did, but I know he did a great job in promoting bitcoins, allowing people to buy coins with cash without ever defrauding anyone.
• About the case in NY and some guy asking $500k in 2008, that case seems to be closed, open again, ... anyway it's not settled yet, and I'm wondering a bit about the guy on the other side. As long as the case is not settled there's no way to know who's wrong, and considering how long this have been running I wouldn't think it's anything serious.
• Finally about Bruce's affiliation with MyBitcoin, this is quite amusing. Not only this is highly unlikely considering technical details on the way MyBitcoin was run, but the "link" (TodWilliams?) is the most ridiculous thing I ever saw.

We are however aware of the image problem this represents, both for us and the bitcoin community as a whole, and are considering which steps should be taken in the future.

I do think that everyone around here are slightly too busy reading about Bruce (I don't know about you but I'm already bored of this) and ignoring some more important things happening on Bitcoin. We are about to start service for Bitomat users and open multi currency support, among other things, and various things are moving within the bitcoin community.

The evidence is overwhelming.  I find your judgment questionable at best at this point. Moreover, if you can't make a reasoned and thought-out judgment about this issue, than how am I to trust you with my moneys and assets?   The simple answer is I can't, if you can make this kind of mistake, than you can make other mistakes in judgment just as bad. 

Therefore I am closing my MtGox accounts, and taking my business to another firm.  I will also be directing my partners, friends and associates to do the same.

[castlegoat]

Lollin' at psy.

Sure, he might have a few incrimating posts about picking up boys in child sex-trafficking hot spots, may have an unpaid $300,000 dollar judgement for scamming people out of their homes without a single customer helped and pending litigation for another $500,000, but that's only par for the course when you're a bitcoin high roller!

Is that what you aspire to? What kind of business are you doing here?

[Surawit]

I see what this is about, it is obvious. Some of you are very jealous of Mr. Wagner because he had the FORESIGHT to jump into Bitcoin when the price was very low. I may not be an early adopter either but at least I'm not bitter about it! If you are patient you can also make some good money from Bitcoin, this is inevitable fact (Bitcoin is DEFLATIONARY)

[Raoul Duke]

Lollin' at psy.

Sure, he might have a few incrimating posts about picking up boys in child sex-trafficking hot spots, may have an unpaid $300,000 dollar judgement for scamming people out of their homes without a single customer helped and pending litigation for another $500,000, but that's only par for the course when you're a bitcoin high roller!

Is that what you aspire to? What kind of business are you doing here?

Dude, listen very carefully: I'm not defending Bruce, in fact i can't stand the man(boy, whatever).
But for someone that wants so badly that Bruce stops being the face of Bitcoin, you guys are giving Bruce the most exposition off them all. If you think it's that bad, stop it, because now that everybody knows you are just making the matters worse for Bitcoin by keeping talking about this.

Hell, evem MagicalTux already answered that he's investigating it and will act accordingly. What you want more?

AGITPROP! That's what all this shit is, at it's worstest. The Internet way!

[Stalin-chan]

Yeah like i'm going to trust one person to investigate and make the final call. 
Why don't you just call the FBI in? 

[BlockHash]

I see what this is about, it is obvious. Some of you are very jealous of Mr. Wagner because he had the FORESIGHT to jump into Bitcoin when the price was very low. I may not be an early adopter either but at least I'm not bitter about it! If you are patient you can also make some good money from Bitcoin, this is inevitable fact (Bitcoin is DEFLATIONARY)

Are you serious? I'm quite happy for people that legitimately have gotten rewarded for being an early adopter and hope that one day I can replicate their success.

What I'm having an issue with is that people seem to be just fine having a well-known scammer as the face of the currency and quite frankly, I don't trust the guy as far as I can throw him after everything that has come to light with regards to his past business dealings. I was certainly worked up about his decision making and reasoning for Pattaya while ignoring the communities concerns, but that's all small potatoes to me now, we simply can't afford to have this stigma associated with Bitcoin.  You do know that his name is mentioned a lot in the media and once that his past is revealed to them, they are going to run it into the ground every time Bitcoin is mentioned? This is inevitable and it will only serve to hurt the currency even more and open it up to more government scrutiny.

[Surawit]

What I'm having an issue with is that people seem to be just fine having a well-known scammer as the face of the currency and quite frankly, I don't trust the guy as far as I can throw him after everything that has come to light with regards to his past business dealings. I was certainly worked up about his decision making and reasoning for Pattaya while ignoring the communities concerns, but that's all small potatoes to me now, we simply can't afford to have this stigma associated with Bitcoin.  You do know that his name is mentioned a lot in the media and once that his past is revealed to them, they are going to run it into the ground every time Bitcoin is mentioned? This is inevitable and it will only serve to hurt the currency even more and open it up to more government scrutiny.

As far as I can tell there have been three allegations
1. That Bruce had something to do with mortgage fraud. He has explained that this was a misunderstanding.
2. That Bruce is involved with sex tourism. He has also said that this is not true.
3. That Bruce is involved with the mybitcoin.com hacking. He has also explained this, they were his SPONSORS and he lost money too.

I am a very good judge of character. Listening to Bruce it is clear he is honest, INNOCENT and pure of heart. These allegations are despicable, and it all seems very co-ordinated. I bet all you are secretly swapping advice on the best way to continue this horrible, unethical three-edged assault on a poor innocent man of undefiled character.

[Jalum]

As far as I can tell there have been three allegations
1. That Bruce had something to do with mortgage fraud. He has explained that this was a misunderstanding.
2. That Bruce is involved with sex tourism. He has also said that this is not true.
3. That Bruce is involved with the mybitcoin.com hacking. He has also explained this, they were his SPONSORS and he lost money too.

I am a very good judge of character. Listening to Bruce it is clear he is honest, INNOCENT and pure of heart. These allegations are despicable, and it all seems very co-ordinated. I bet all you are secretly swapping advice on the best way to continue this horrible, unethical three-edged assault on a poor innocent man of undefiled character.

Is this Ed or Manny?

[TwistedPair]

[Edit] You said: "I never heard of him running with someone's cash"

I think that was the sentence that killed it for me. He ran away with desperate people's cash after offering them a mortgage service that he had no intention of keeping. He was tried in absentia, and he has not paid the money that he was ordered to by the courts nor did he pay a penny in compensation to his victims.

What I know of Bruce is what he did for the past months in Bitcoin, and I never had any report of Bruce stealing anything from anyone during that time frame.

As I said, we do not have enough information at this point to make any decision, especially when it comes to Bold Funding. We are still investigating this on our own and will provide updates once we reach a conclusion.

+1

[Stalin-chan]

As far as I can tell there have been three allegations
1. That Bruce had something to do with mortgage fraud. He has explained that this was a misunderstanding.
2. That Bruce is involved with sex tourism. He has also said that this is not true.
3. That Bruce is involved with the mybitcoin.com hacking. He has also explained this, they were his SPONSORS and he lost money too.

I am a very good judge of character. Listening to Bruce it is clear he is honest, INNOCENT and pure of heart. These allegations are despicable, and it all seems very co-ordinated. I bet all you are secretly swapping advice on the best way to continue this horrible, unethical three-edged assault on a poor innocent man of undefiled character.

Is this Ed or Manny?

+1

Mortgage fraud is not a misunderstanding, did Bruce ever apologise for the lives he ruined in his "mortgage misunderstanding"?

[Raize]

That Bruce is involved with the mybitcoin.com hacking. He has also explained this, they were his SPONSORS and he lost money too.

There are two very damning bits of evidence against that:
1. Arvixe is a very small host and both Bruce and mybitcoin were registered there.
2. The statistical-significance of tod williams and tom williams out of any thousands of scammer names that could have been used.

Additionally, we know he's wanted in two US states and it looks like the NY thing is still ongoing. I don't even care about his fondness for little boys, the dude has fraudulently handled other people's money.

There's two things Bruce could do to clear things up:
1. Explain who Tom Williams is
2. Explain who Tod Williams is

They couldn't identify in court a SINGLE individual that was benefited by Bold Funding, so who the hell was Tod? If he was sponsored by MyBitcoin, then who the hell is Tom?

[FlipPro]

I've talked to Bruce and watched his show several times, and he is a really nice guy.... From my personal experience, it seems unlikely that he is the conman everyone is claiming him to be. He has a very open and honest character... Not at all 'shady' IMO.

Are you serious?  You can't think of any reason why a con man(who makes a living on getting people to trust him with their money and well-being) seems like a really nice guy?  A con man who seems shady isn't a very good one.  And he was a good one, no idea how much he got but he was ordered to pay back over 350k so it was a lot. 

Then why the hell did he get caught?

I bring this point up because if Bruce was hiding ANYTHING, he wouldn't be using all his REAL INFORMATION in the first place.

You guys are absolutely INSANE, and you wonder why people won't take you seriously?

[BCEmporium]

Gosh! Glad my first (and last) entanglement with Bruce was a "crash" and insults exchange upon Baron's issue.

Nevertheless, these lately attempts of character burning I don't know... it started with odd allegations of sexual behavior, which makes it look more like a campaign against other than proper accusations.
Still, that mortgage scheme went down... he claims good intentions, but was a scheme, was he to naive to think "win for all situations" really exists?! Here we've a popular expression, translates more or less to: «Of people with good intentions is Hell filled up».
Still don't quite know what to think.

[castlegoat]

I've talked to Bruce and watched his show several times, and he is a really nice guy.... From my personal experience, it seems unlikely that he is the conman everyone is claiming him to be. He has a very open and honest character... Not at all 'shady' IMO.

Are you serious?  You can't think of any reason why a con man(who makes a living on getting people to trust him with their money and well-being) seems like a really nice guy?  A con man who seems shady isn't a very good one.  And he was a good one, no idea how much he got but he was ordered to pay back over 350k so it was a lot. 

Then why the hell did he get caught?

I bring this point up because if Bruce was hiding ANYTHING, he wouldn't be using all his REAL INFORMATION in the first place.

You guys are absolutely INSANE, and you wonder why people won't take you seriously?

I agree, I think that if this guy really was a pedophile sex-trafficking mortgage scammer he would be WAY TOO SMART to just use his name like this. IDIOTS. I mean, sure he's admitted to it being true, but that's because you trolls put his back against the wall.  BACK OFF, AND LET THE TRUTH COME OUT.

[Stalin-chan]

I prefer my wall backing approach.