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Author Topic: Bitcoin in France: first legal decision directly related to Bitcoin?  (Read 57392 times)
repentance
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October 22, 2011, 12:27:56 AM
 #201


Not a surprising outcome really, but yet again users have been forced to go looking for information rather than MtGox making an announcement here (and they certainly had support staff active on here last night who could have posted an announcement).

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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finway
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October 22, 2011, 12:50:00 AM
 #202

ERU  suspended

sadpandatech
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October 22, 2011, 01:56:31 AM
 #203


No, sorry, but if you do a search for "goxxed" I'm sure it will come up.

In a nutshell, Mt. Gox has a tendency to repeatedly "Gox" it's users through a combination of non-communication, lack of professionalism, and being insanely understaffed.  Some would say deliberately so, but I think it's more to their naivete.

1.) Stop complaining
2.) take action
3.) profit

  Agreed, and to the guy asking, "profit?" Yea, good op to start a payment processor company in Europe.......


   And NO one got GOXXED. They were firmly giflée by French regulations...

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
repentance
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October 22, 2011, 04:25:15 AM
 #204

News of the decision doesn't seem to have made it to reddit yet.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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October 22, 2011, 04:40:12 AM
 #205

News of the decision doesn't seem to have made it to reddit yet.


has there even been a decision yet???

repentance
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October 22, 2011, 04:43:49 AM
 #206

News of the decision doesn't seem to have made it to reddit yet.


has there even been a decision yet???

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While Bitcoin at a European level is so far not directly impacted by this decision, the Bank de France (France's central bank) has confirmed that because of European banking rules, monetary transfers (deposits and withdrawals) through a single entity are subject to financial regulation and therefore can only be performed by licensed financial institutions such as banks or Payment Service companies (the European Equivalent to a Money Service Business). This decision has forced us to find other payment processing partners within Europe that will allow us to quickly resume all EUR transactions for our European customers soon.

From MtGox 21 October press release.

https://mtgox.com/press_release_20111021.html

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
adamstgBit
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October 22, 2011, 04:52:38 AM
 #207

so... they didn't say weather or not bitcoin is a currency?

repentance
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October 22, 2011, 05:01:56 AM
 #208

so... they didn't say weather or not bitcoin is a currency?

They didn't need to.  MtGox hasn't made any statement yet as to whether they're going to pursue a ruling on that issue, but it's essentially irrelevant to the money transfer decision.

All I can say is that this is Bitcoin. I don't believe it until I see six confirmations.
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October 22, 2011, 05:12:25 AM
 #209

so... they didn't say weather or not bitcoin is a currency?

They didn't need to.  MtGox hasn't made any statement yet as to whether they're going to pursue a ruling on that issue, but it's essentially irrelevant to the money transfer decision.

cool, well i'd just drop it if i was them.

we can rule on this when we have more strength.. in which case the outcome wont really effect us.

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October 22, 2011, 10:32:18 AM
 #210

3.) profit


and how would you profit if you can't add or withdraw any funds?

you didn't do step 2.) right. Use your imagination and think outside the box.

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October 22, 2011, 10:36:17 AM
 #211


I don't understand... What decision?

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the Bank de France (France's central bank) has confirmed that because of European banking rules, monetary transfers (deposits and withdrawals) through a single entity are subject to financial regulation and therefore can only be performed by licensed financial institutions such as banks or Payment Service companies

I thought a court was going to make some decision, no? Why does the bank de france get to make any decision here?


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October 22, 2011, 11:23:48 AM
 #212

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the Bank de France (France's central bank) has confirmed that because of European banking rules, monetary transfers (deposits and withdrawals) through a single entity are subject to financial regulation and therefore can only be performed by licensed financial institutions such as banks or Payment Service companies

I'm afraid this does make sense indeed.  The bitcoin network can be considered as a distributed accounting system, and there is no transfer through any "single entity".  But with currency exchanges there is a conventional currency part, which is half of each transaction.  And MtGox does maintain a centralised balance/accounting database at least for those conventional currencies.  Therefore, they do act as bank and/or financial institutions.

If a currency exchange wants to bypass financial regulations, they need to get rid of all the part where they hold currency amounts before they are actually exchanged.  In other words, each transaction should be done using a direct wire transfer between parties.  There are a few websites that propose such a service I believe.  It is, anyway, a very different business model from what MtGox is.

Anyway I think we must focus on using decentralized exchanges such as bitcoin-otc or stuffs like that.

This is just my humble opinion.
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October 22, 2011, 12:17:38 PM
 #213

Anyway I think we must focus on using decentralized exchanges such as bitcoin-otc or stuffs like that.
+1

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October 22, 2011, 07:22:17 PM
 #214

TOKYO, JAPAN - October 21, 2011 - As our customers may be aware, Mt.Gox is capable of accepting EUR transactions via an intermediary located in France, allowing the European Bitcoin community to purchase and sell Bitcoins at greatly reduced cost and difficulty.

While Bitcoin at a European level is so far not directly impacted by this decision, the Bank de France (France's central bank) has confirmed that because of European banking rules, monetary transfers (deposits and withdrawals) through a single entity are subject to financial regulation and therefore can only be performed by licensed financial institutions such as banks or Payment Service companies (the European Equivalent to a Money Service Business). This decision has forced us to find other payment processing partners within Europe that will allow us to quickly resume all EUR transactions for our European customers soon.

We would like to reassure our customers that this does not mean the end of the support of these currencies on Mt.Gox. Indeed, we are currently working on other alternatives inline with European regulations which will allow us to resume the support of these currencies as well as SEPA transfers without fear of future intervention. We sincerely regret to report, however, that the process of instituting an alternative may take up to two weeks before these services are once again available for use.

In the interim, when depositing or withdrawing EUR or GBP with an Mt.Gox account, we ask our customers to use our HSBC Hong-Kong bank account (“International Wire”, in the Add Funds and Withdraw Funds pages of MtGox.com) or partners such as AurumXchange.

Please see the relevant page (either “Add Funds” or “Withdraw Funds”) on MtGox.com for detailed information on how to proceed.

Rest assured that all resources at our disposal are being used to rectify this issue, and we hope to resume accepting EUR within Europe as soon as possible.

So, obviously, you need to become a licensed financial institution such as a bank or Payment Service company.  Right? 

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EhVedadoOAnonimato
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October 22, 2011, 08:13:07 PM
 #215

So, obviously, you need to become a licensed financial institution such as a bank or Payment Service company.  Right? 

LOL, I was going to write a comment addressed precisely to people who still refuse to get what's the point on all these licenses.

These licenses exist to block competition. You don't "become a licensed financial institution" if you are not extremely well connected and rich.

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October 22, 2011, 08:21:32 PM
 #216

So, obviously, you need to become a licensed financial institution such as a bank or Payment Service company.  Right? 

LOL, I was going to write a comment addressed precisely to people who still refuse to get what's the point on all these licenses.

These licenses exist to block competition. You don't "become a licensed financial institution" if you are not extremely well connected and rich.


I salute you for looking at the big picture.
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October 22, 2011, 08:43:55 PM
 #217


These licenses exist to block competition. You don't "become a licensed financial institution" if you are not extremely well connected and rich.


 +1, at least 200k $ for the licence , and not even sure money is enough to be accepted . . .

sadpandatech
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October 22, 2011, 08:48:34 PM
 #218


These licenses exist to block competition. You don't "become a licensed financial institution" if you are not extremely well connected and rich.


 +1, at least 200k $ for the licence , and not even sure money is enough to be accepted . . .


  Add to that the insane amounts you must be bonded and insured for on top of the 'assets' you must document......

If you're not excited by the idea of being an early adopter 'now', then you should come back in three or four years and either tell us "Told you it'd never work!" or join what should, by then, be a much more stable and easier-to-use system. - GA
It is being worked on by smart people. -DamienBlack
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October 22, 2011, 10:54:35 PM
 #219

There's something I'm not getting here. If Bank of France doesn't want to cooperate, find another bank! Right? Why spend time trying to force them to cooperate, while wasting your time and the time of your customers in the EU? Just find another bank that offers you (Mt. Gox) the benefit of the doubt; if the bank hasn't been told to handle Bitcoin as a currency, don't do it. There are plenty of banks in the EU, at least some of which - I'd imagine - would be willing to act as an intermediate.
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October 22, 2011, 11:11:05 PM
 #220

the same will probably happen to the other bank accounts, look at britcoin/intersango they had an account with barclays i think which got shut down and their HSBC account also just got shut down

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