Discussion between SolidCoin Founder and Gavin Andresen

[simonk83]

 If you can't see that it is indeed offensive to come into a channel and tell someone that the guy attacking the network you support is smart and worthy of being listened to then I can't help you.

And if you can't understand why it would be a good idea to listen then you're more far gone than I originally thought.  Pull your head in.

Anyway, all this is moot now as we have the new open source client.  Do with yours as you will.

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[BitcoinPorn]

I do feel the lead developer of Bitcoin shouldn't be ignorant about what is going on in his own "scene". And he should try at least to use his influence with people he knows.

Total bs.  Gavin needs to focus on gavin, all devs not only hate this "scene", but have taken it to the point where these forums are not connected with Bitcoin.org.   Stop the silly slander and any focus on Gavin, misunderstanding, he has nothing to do with the shit going on.

[ThomasV]

That's wrong, the same attack (and others artforz is aware of) are possible with Bitcoin, at relatively little expense.

Bullshit. If the same attack was possible with Bitcoin, it would have been done long ago.
And oh, the very creation of solidcoin was an attack too: http://solidcoin.info/solidcoin-ready-for-bitcoin-collapse.php
It failed as well.

[csshih]

<CoinHunter> FORK YOU!
<ArtForz> Fork you right back.
<CoinHunter> FORK YOU GAVIN!

Brilliant.

Craig

[smoothie]

That's wrong, the same attack (and others artforz is aware of) are possible with Bitcoin, at relatively little expense. The reason artforz decided to attack SolidCoin was due to his own ego, dislike for me and the project and the fact he is malicious in nature. Artforz "warning" me is also a bit of a joke, he sent me about 5 lines of text, mainly talking about 51% attacks. I simply said the "extra" 51% attacks are irrelevant because at 51% you're dead anyhow. This somehow get's translated into me "fobbing him off" and "not listening" . It's a bit of a joke.

The big joke is you seem to think ArtForz has no reason to dislike you that much.

The big joke is you seem to make about 1000 posts in a day and they are 100% shit.

Seems you, him, and I do the same thing.

[nguoinhaque]

I agree that CoinHunter's behavior is immature and not professional (I guess his age is under 25 and very likely under 20) but I don't suppose ArtForz is a good guy. If CoinHunter didn't admit SolidCoin's weekness, ArtForz should post his argument here to show how stupid and arrogant CoinHunter is instead of attacking SolidCoin. I think ArtForz is:
+ The same guy as CoinHunter (immature and not professional). Want to show he is correct immediately when CoinHunter ignore his warning
+ A guy want SolidCoin to die

I don't like CoinHunter but he might correct when he said (in SolidCoin forum, I can't remember the exact post) that guys here attacking him and SolidCoin for the only reason: MONEY
This war is very bad for SolidCoin, Bitcoin and also very bad for cryptography currency community. I'm a fan of cryptography currency and really want this war be ended

[cgpgroup]

More +1 Gavin praise.  I had not read all that shit until now.  Even giving the benefit of the doubt to RealSolid on how he initially went into the conversation, his not accepting the fact that Gavin does not = the Bitcoin supporters nor control them, well there you go, the rest of the conversation is pretty much moot after that.

I understand Gavin has very little influence or control over the other developers. What I didn't appreciate was Gavin telling me to "listen to" the hacker which attacked the network. I had already fixed the issues which artforz was taking advantage of to disrupt service to thousands of people. If you can't see that it is indeed offensive to come into a channel and tell someone that the guy attacking the network you support is smart and worthy of being listened to then I can't help you.

If artforz had any decency about him he would have simply left our discussion where it was (about 5 lines worth). Instead he went malicious and people are congratulating him on it? The mind boggles.

When bitcoin starts being attacked will the same people be congratulating the FBI or SomethingAwful trolls for "strengthening" the network?

And you should have listened... thanks for banning my account on your forum mr duche bag..... lol. what an a$$...

[johnj]

I don't like CoinHunter but he might correct when he said (in SolidCoin forum, I can't remember the exact post) that guys here attacking him and SolidCoin for the only reason: MONEY
This war is very bad for SolidCoin, Bitcoin and also very bad for cryptography currency community. I'm a fan of cryptography currency and really want this war be ended

(not directed at nguoinhaque)

I can't believe people are really buying into RS's gig.  It's total propaganda.

I'm going to go ahead and make a guess that each one of the SC footsoldiers have been taken aside personally by RS and told how thankful he is for the support and how their involvement is crucial.  He probably let his walls down a little, showed them the 'person' behind the persona.  How (he is just telling ONE person this,don't tell anyone else) it gets him down sometimes with all the flames, but he is glad he has their support.

If I guessed right, welcome to Scammy McScammerVille.

<fox news>

What would have happened if we 'just stopped fighting' during WW2?  NAZIS, that's what.

</fox news>

Edit:  Wanna know whats bad for cryptocurrencies? https://i.imgur.com/xGoYI.png .  Yeah.  RS is the one slingin the most mud.

[ArtForz]

"I had already fixed the issues which artforz was taking advantage of to disrupt service to thousands of people."
Right. He had already fixed it. So *thats* why it took him THREE releases to get his half-assed "fix" right and the current release still happily creates 6.8GB of temporary txdb journal bloat while downloading the chain.
*facepalm*

[cgpgroup]

"I had already fixed the issues which artforz was taking advantage of to disrupt service to thousands of people."
Right. He had already fixed it. So *thats* why it took him THREE releases to get his half-assed "fix" right and the current release still happily creates 6.8GB of temporary txdb journal bloat while downloading the chain.
*facepalm*

LOL more like *plank to back of head*

[coblee]

... but I do feel the lead developer of Bitcoin shouldn't be ignorant about what is going on in his own "scene".

Gavin is busy actually working on Bitcoin development. Count how many threads there are about SolidCoin on the forum. Do you really expect Gavin to have the time to read all that? He probably just heard from someone that you found some bugs in Bitcoin but are not willing to share the fix upstream. So he just logged in to your IRC chatroom to ask you why. Why does have to know all the history of your coin?

You treat him like an ass and call him a hacker supporter. There's really no room in the bitcoin "scene" for your immature childish behavior. See ya and good luck with your closed source dying fork.

[wolftaur]

I agree that CoinHunter's behavior is immature and not professional (I guess his age is under 25 and very likely under 20) but I don't suppose ArtForz is a good guy. If CoinHunter didn't admit SolidCoin's weekness, ArtForz should post his argument here to show how stupid and arrogant CoinHunter is instead of attacking SolidCoin.

ArtForz actually tried that and got nowhere.

[Zibbo]

but I do feel the lead developer of Bitcoin shouldn't be ignorant about what is going on in his own "scene".

Heh, I can imagine this pissed you off. Here you are waging your little war on Bitcoin, thinking you are the center of the universe. It must have been hard to notice that Solidcoin had not even registered on Gavins radar.

[wolftaur]

"I had already fixed the issues which artforz was taking advantage of to disrupt service to thousands of people."
Right. He had already fixed it. So *thats* why it took him THREE releases to get his half-assed "fix" right and the current release still happily creates 6.8GB of temporary txdb journal bloat while downloading the chain.
*facepalm*

Actually, this is beyond facepalm territory. We're up to *headdesk* by now.

[wolftaur]

but I do feel the lead developer of Bitcoin shouldn't be ignorant about what is going on in his own "scene".

Heh, I can imagine this pissed you off. Here you are waging your little war on Bitcoin, thinking you are the center of the universe. It must have been hard to notice that Solidcoin had not even registered on Gavins radar.

His ego has collapsed in on itself to form a neural singularity. Fact slows down as it approaches him, and intelligence is trapped in the insanity well and cannot escape.

[coblee]

I agree that CoinHunter's behavior is immature and not professional (I guess his age is under 25 and very likely under 20) but I don't suppose ArtForz is a good guy. If CoinHunter didn't admit SolidCoin's weekness, ArtForz should post his argument here to show how stupid and arrogant CoinHunter is instead of attacking SolidCoin.

ArtForz actually tried that and got nowhere.

Even if you were telling the 100% truth, King Douche Bag still shouldn't have done what he did.... the additional problem is you're not telling the whole story, you're cherry picking a piece of the story to fit your agenda.

So what is the whole story? Please do tell. And please be specific about who you are talking about, because to me "King Douche Bag" is synonymous with CoinHunter.

[wolftaur]

ArtForz actually tried that and got nowhere.

Even if you were telling the 100% truth, King Douche Bag still shouldn't have done what he did.... the additional problem is you're not telling the whole story, you're cherry picking a piece of the story to fit your agenda.

So what is the whole story? Please do tell. And please be specific about who you are talking about, because to me "King Douche Bag" is synonymous with CoinHunter.

The whole story is ArtForz found weaknesses, CoinHunter ignored them, I actually went to CoinHunter privately and asked if he'd like me to help him go over them to see if it was a real problem and what the solutions might be, he flipped out on me, I walked off and laughed my ass off when ArtForz decided to prove the attack was real when CoinHunter was trying to pretend it was just "bitcoin attacking solidcoin", which of course he was paranoid about since he'd spread a bunch of lies about bitcoin when he released solidcoin.

[coblee]

So what is the whole story? Please do tell. And please be specific about who you are talking about, because to me "King Douche Bag" is synonymous with CoinHunter.

The whole story is ArtForz found weaknesses, CoinHunter ignored them, I actually went to CoinHunter privately and asked if he'd like me to help him go over them to see if it was a real problem and what the solutions might be, he flipped out on me, I walked off and laughed my ass off when ArtForz decided to prove the attack was real when CoinHunter was trying to pretend it was just "bitcoin attacking solidcoin", which of course he was paranoid about since he'd spread a bunch of lies about bitcoin when he released solidcoin.

What weakness did he actually claim to find?  On the public forum it alluded to 51% attacks not micro-transaction DDOSing...  How much time between even making that claim and making that attack (less than a day from what I recall)?  Am I wrong?

It doesn't matter how much time was between the claim and the attack. If CoinHunter had listened and worked with ArtForz, ArtForz would likely not have attacked the chain to prove the issue. And they could have taken weeks to put in a real fix that actually works.

On the forum, I think only the 51% attack was posted. He discussed the DDoS attack on the i0coin chatroom. Only ArtForz and CoinHunter know what exactly they discussed in private. But ArtForz said that he brought up the vulnerabilities to CoinHunter and was ignored. Given CoinHunter's egotistical behavior on the forums and on IRC, I can't fault ArtForz for attacking SolidCoin to try to put CoinHunter in his place. He's really too full of himself. Can's argue with that, right?

[ArtForz]

What weakness did he actually claim to find?  On the public forum it alluded to 51% attacks not micro-transaction DDOSing...  How much time between even making that claim and making that attack (less than a day from what I recall)?  Am I wrong?

"Your rules allow anyone to send transactions up to nearly BLOCK_SIZE_GEN for 0.01 coins" pretty much sums it up.
There was no microtransactions DDoS or anything the like.
One node. Sending 71 transactions with 350~430kB each over the span of 17 hours..
Take a look yourself: http://john-edwin-tobey.org/scbig.txt
They're in Blocks 28351 to 28481 in case you didn't notice.

[BitcoinPorn]

Given CoinHunter's egotistical behavior on the forums and on IRC, I can't fault ArtForz for attacking SolidCoin to try to put CoinHunter in his place.

That is such a shit argument for defending Art.  I think it is safe to say that there are just two wrongs that have been made and so people don't have to pick sides.   Art got shit on by CoinHunter, and instead of being a bigger person went on and fucked over other people based on one persons actions.