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Author Topic: GMO miner B2: 7NM mining within reach?  (Read 1824 times)
Thetaj
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May 23, 2018, 01:57:48 PM
 #1

Hey guys, I feel like sharing this today just because many of us (me included) are very skeptical of "7nm" mining chips

Well, Wait no more I suppose!

https://www.gmo.jp/en/news/article/?id=777
https://www.nasdaq.com/press-release/gmo-internet-group-offers-gmo-miner-the-worlds-first-mining-machine-equipped-with-mining-chips-20180523-00326

Apparently GMO really did invent 7NM mining even before Bitmain!
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ccgllc
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May 23, 2018, 03:04:21 PM
 #2

Guess we will learn more in 2 weeks, but so far, we will have to wait until at least October - 5 months, before anyone will see a unit.  That is a lifetime in the Bitcoin world.

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May 23, 2018, 03:20:35 PM
 #3

Let's see, the 10nm node miners are *just* becoming viable and yet GMO is saying they will begin delivering 7nm products at the end of Q3? Riiiight... And what Foundry will they be using? None are anywhere near even limited production status @ 7nm. Yes Samsung and GF are doing "tape out' for engineering testing of the layouts but that has little to do with being anywhere close to a viable production status.

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
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Thetaj
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May 23, 2018, 05:59:03 PM
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Let's see, the 10nm node miners are *just* becoming viable and yet GMO is saying they will begin delivering 7nm products at the end of Q3? Riiiight... And what Foundry will they be using? None are anywhere near even limited production status @ 7nm. Yes Samsung and GF are doing "tape out' for engineering testing of the layouts but that has little to do with being anywhere close to a viable production status.

We'll see in two weeks my man, who's goin to Japan?
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May 23, 2018, 09:36:26 PM
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Riiiight... And what Foundry will they be using? None are anywhere near even limited production status @ 7nm. Yes Samsung and GF are doing "tape out' for engineering testing of the layouts but that has little to do with being anywhere close to a viable production status.
Do you know this from some source at the foundries or do you just repeat somebody's baseless speculation? Edit: Wasn't that QuintLeo who convinced you that Intel isn't offering foundry services? End edit.

It would seem that Bitcoin mining IC is near perfect test product for a new process: it is repetitive, it tolerates bad yield, it is free of actual trade secrets or intellectual property in its circuitry. It would be beneficial for both foundry and designers to cooperate and profitably sell the wafers fabricated during process bring-up.

GMO being Japanese could have an additional benefit of really being able to sign binding non-disclosure agreements, unlike the mainland Chinese.

I would love to hear from somebody who has current experience. Mine is really dated, but even a very small fab-less company had been trusted with internal fabrication process metrics provided that they made actual technological and legal effort to protect the trade secrets of the fab.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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May 24, 2018, 01:48:52 AM
Merited by suchmoon (5)
 #6

Riiiight... And what Foundry will they be using? None are anywhere near even limited production status @ 7nm. Yes Samsung and GF are doing "tape out' for engineering testing of the layouts but that has little to do with being anywhere close to a viable production status.
...
It would seem that Bitcoin mining IC is near perfect test product for a new process: it is repetitive, it tolerates bad yield, it is free of actual trade secrets or intellectual property in its circuitry. It would be beneficial for both foundry and designers to cooperate and profitably sell the wafers fabricated during process bring-up.

GMO being Japanese could have an additional benefit of really being able to sign binding non-disclosure agreements, unlike the mainland Chinese.

I would love to hear from somebody who has current experience. Mine is really dated, but even a very small fab-less company had been trusted with internal fabrication process metrics provided that they made actual technological and legal effort to protect the trade secrets of the fab.
I agree on those points and have in the past said the very same thing about mining chips being a perfect process test platform for the very same reasons you gave. That is probably why Samsung has been eager to make chips for miners from eBang, Innosilicon/Halong Mining, etc. - great way to work out the kinks in their 10nm node.

 Yes the Foundries are doing tests/'tape out' at 7nm. In their IPO document Canaan p.94 mentioned having actual design layout samples of 7nm chips finished by TSMC last month and made mention about possibly having a mass-produced 7nm miner chip by the end of the year. My feeling is that they are assuming that the few remaining issues with EUV are sufficiently addressed by then to keep mask costs far lower.

I just highly doubt any company that is getting it's major funding via ICO token sales and pre-orders can pull this off or be trusted.

On the Intel Foundry services bit - that was new to me. I get a lot of feeds from Intel (mostly about their FPGA's) plus several electronic design feeds - never saw mention of it.

For bitcoin to succeed the community must police itself - Joshua Zipkin aka Joshua Alexander leaked AMT A1 miner skype chats
How a miner mfgr SHOULD operate: HaggsFIN trip to Canaan My info useful? Donations welcome! 1Fuzzyk398kDWVjuC5qPX5v6CjSkvbgAbd
-Support Sidehacks miner development. Donations to:   1BURGERAXHH6Yi6LRybRJK7ybEm5m5HwTr
The Demon Slick
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May 24, 2018, 10:33:29 AM
 #7

2 things, first the gmo mining contracts start at 500k, and it is contracts, you're not buying the miners. Theyre like the shipping containers for hut 8.
2nd, there has been some promising work with germanium, we may see 7nm chips sooner than we think. I agree q3 seems a bit optimistic, but maybe q1 or q2 2019.
I hope it's coming, we need more energy efficient mining equipment like yesterday.

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May 24, 2018, 03:14:22 PM
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I hope it's coming, we need more energy efficient mining equipment like yesterday.

To which I say:  It really doesn't matter so long as everyone is playing on a level field.  If someone comes up with a 100TH machine that runs a 1000W (~10X todays performance) at the same price point as todays solutions, the world will simply convert to that technology and difficulty will rise 10X.  Power consumption would remain the same.  All of todays tech would simply become land-fill.

The only benefit would be to the first adopters (who will likely pay a capital premium), and that disappears once everyone is using the tech.

The the primary two constraints are Power availability and resulting Heat generation, I highly suspect packaging would be developed that mimics todays machines - drawing around 1400 watts and simply providing 10X the hashrate.    Personnally, I would be swapping those in one-for-one for my existing gear - no energy savings at all in terms of actual usage.

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Thetaj
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May 24, 2018, 03:37:15 PM
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I hope it's coming, we need more energy efficient mining equipment like yesterday.

To which I say:  It really doesn't matter so long as everyone is playing on a level field.  If someone comes up with a 100TH machine that runs a 1000W (~10X todays performance) at the same price point as todays solutions, the world will simply convert to that technology and difficulty will rise 10X.  Power consumption would remain the same.  All of todays tech would simply become land-fill.

The only benefit would be to the first adopters (who will likely pay a capital premium), and that disappears once everyone is using the tech.

The the primary two constraints are Power availability and resulting Heat generation, I highly suspect packaging would be developed that mimics todays machines - drawing around 1400 watts and simply providing 10X the hashrate.    Personnally, I would be swapping those in one-for-one for my existing gear - no energy savings at all in terms of actual usage.

thats pretty much all of us. Mining has always been a time game
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May 25, 2018, 01:41:56 AM
 #10

I just highly doubt any company that is getting it's major funding via ICO token sales and pre-orders can pull this off or be trusted.

On the Intel Foundry services bit - that was new to me. I get a lot of feeds from Intel (mostly about their FPGA's) plus several electronic design feeds - never saw mention of it.
Well, I don't know about the vagaries of Intel's marketing. I'm somewhat more interested in how the rumor mills work on this forum or in somewhat broader cryptocurrency news/rumor mills. Nowadays whatever QuintLeo says, I'm immediately thinking that opposite is true. And you have started to repeat a lot of his proclamations.

Thanks for clarification.

Please comment, critique, criticize or ridicule BIP 2112: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=54382.0
Long-term mining prognosis: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=91101.0
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May 25, 2018, 03:16:50 PM
 #11

So I guess this means they've scrapped the PCIe cards that were going to do 8 TH/s @ 300W? Didn't seem legit.
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June 05, 2018, 12:43:20 PM
Merited by suchmoon (5)
 #12

Somes specs on the site

https://gmominer.z.com/en/


They saying 24 ths
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June 05, 2018, 01:22:40 PM
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Here's also a tweet detailing a few things about the GMO miner I found on r/Bitcoin a couple minutes ago. 24TH/1950W so about 80W/TH, but the miner costs $1999 and ships by the end of October, though sales start in June. I'd still personally take the S9i at its reduced price for a much lower $/TH cost sacrificing just a bit of efficiency, but nice to see that GMO has something working out the board that beats Bitmain for now.

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Thetaj
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June 05, 2018, 01:57:33 PM
 #14

Here's also a tweet detailing a few things about the GMO miner I found on r/Bitcoin a couple minutes ago. 24TH/1950W so about 80W/TH, but the miner costs $1999 and ships by the end of October, though sales start in June. I'd still personally take the S9i at its reduced price for a much lower $/TH cost sacrificing just a bit of efficiency, but nice to see that GMO has something working out the board that beats Bitmain for now.

And that is why Bitmain lowered the price and gave out all those coupons.

They’re trying to snuff the little GMO before it gets a grip in this industry. An S9i actually costs around ~350$ to produce enmass. With the coupons we’re pretty much getting them on par with production. Why is Bitmain being so generous? They’re not, anyone buying Bitmain now thinking is a good deal is another lost customer to GMO.   Classic monopoly tactics
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June 05, 2018, 02:15:36 PM
 #15

Not necessarily. Some people just might not want to (or be able to) operate a single 2KW miner.

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June 05, 2018, 02:24:29 PM
 #16

In the long run wouldn't the B2 miner be more profitable? Let's say after the difficulty spikes because of the new miners. Thinking 2-3 years ahead.
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June 05, 2018, 02:59:53 PM
 #17

In the long run wouldn't the B2 miner be more profitable? Let's say after the difficulty spikes because of the new miners. Thinking 2-3 years ahead.

yeah maybe if it does not break.

the 2 mistakes they are doing :

1) not shipping now
2) not offering a 1000 watt miner along with a 2000 watt miner


they would have been better off build  some  1000 watt 13th miners  along with some 2000 watt 26 th miners

and simply selling them once they are available.

This moron preorder falls right into the hands of bitmain.
r
Economically 2 s9i in hand for   1265 is so much better

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June 05, 2018, 04:19:46 PM
 #18

They got no choice as far as I can tell. It seems that GMO is not willing to risk alot in this cryptomining venture of theirs. They are asking for preorders because they are not willing to foot the bill for production. However it seems to me that they have spent quite significantly on launching the product already. I will have some of their miners for sure. But I am definitely not going to be the guy who gets shot through the door. Besides, I think the very first batch has already been sold out.
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June 05, 2018, 07:28:57 PM
 #19

this style of selling only feeds into bitmain

btw I am not being anti bitmain this is simple economics.

bitmain just cranks out cheap s9is sells the shit out of them.

and here is the kicker bitmain does not even have to design its next chip just buy  each new miner from Halong ,Innosilicon, Avalon or GMO


and reverse engineer it then sell it at a  lower price.

EVEN better bribe a guy on the inside and put the chip out faster then the real builder like they did to the sia asic builders.

That said I grabbed 2 cheap s9i's to test my solar idea out.
I may be able to sell a solar package for an s9i at a good price.

certainly a 2 board s9i on the cheap

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I see BTC as the super highway and alt coins as taxis and trucks needed to move transactions.
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June 05, 2018, 07:41:15 PM
 #20

Does the actual unit have 2 network ports like the renderings and are they using the extra port to make them daisy-chainable?
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