PB Mining -- 5 year mining contracts!

[MrTeal]

Here is how I propose to formulate the bet:
This bet will resolve to "yes" if before November 25 2015, most or all pbmining.com customers stop receiving their weekly payments, or receive payments that are significantly below that which corresponds to the theoretical yield of their purchased hashrate vs bitcoin difficulty at that time .

Simple, completely in line with the claims I made and no obvious loopholes. Ill leave it up to the escrow to determine what "significant" constitutes, as it seems unlikely to be a number that could cause confusion.

Puppet, for long time now you been saying is obvious ponzi and going to fail ,  for long time now you been saying it going to fail soon. That within a year wont be here. Because it's a PonZi right ?  you been making statement that PB mining.com is a scam, the finaces look bad, it going to fail within a year. Going to fail within a year, we heard this over and over from you. Therefore . after all these statement, what I am asking you is do you believe PB will fail by NOV. 25. ?  This isn't about hash rate or bitcoin difficulty, theoretical yield of any of that crap. It's simple are you willing to put your .5 bitcoin on the line to back up what you been saying out here for weeks , that PB is going to fail.  I only ask you agree to pay or at least stop saying this, As its not good to be publicaly saying things you you your are not willing to support as your word as an honest man in the world, and your bitcoin. Say only what you really believe in , use it sparingly.  Treat it as your treasure

I don't think Puppet's conditions are unreasonable. It's more common with Bitcoin scams to not actually disappear entirely. They have a convenient fire/hacking/other catastrophe, followed by promises to make the investors whole (often with a few small payments), followed by months of dragging things out until people become tired of following it. It should hardly be considered a win for the "It's not a ponzi" side if after 3 months pbmining stops sending payouts, but drizzles out a couple hundred BTC over the course of 6 months while dragging things out.

[Anyayakubu]

Here is how I propose to formulate the bet:
This bet will resolve to "yes" if before November 25 2015, most or all pbmining.com customers stop receiving their weekly payments, or receive payments that are significantly below that which corresponds to the theoretical yield of their purchased hashrate vs bitcoin difficulty at that time .

Simple, completely in line with the claims I made and no obvious loopholes. Ill leave it up to the escrow to determine what "significant" constitutes, as it seems unlikely to be a number that could cause confusion.

Puppet, for long time now you been saying is obvious ponzi and going to fail ,  for long time now you been saying it going to fail soon. That within a year wont be here. Because it's a PonZi right ?  you been making statement that PB mining.com is a scam, the finaces look bad, it going to fail within a year. Going to fail within a year, we heard this over and over from you. Therefore . after all these statement, what I am asking you is do you believe PB will fail by NOV. 25. ?  This isn't about hash rate or bitcoin difficulty, theoretical yield of any of that crap. It's simple are you willing to put your .5 bitcoin on the line to back up what you been saying out here for weeks , that PB is going to fail.  I only ask you agree to pay or at least stop saying this, As its not good to be publicaly saying things you you your are not willing to support as your word as an honest man in the world, and your bitcoin. Say only what you really believe in , use it sparingly.  Treat it as your treasure

Why you waste time on this screwball is totally beyond me.
 Because with as much as you think you know about math, there is always someone that knows a bit more than you do. In this case, I only wish we had seen Puppet  step to the plate recline on the bet, based on miscalculation. Rather than through complications into this. Pb either going to be here to NOV. 25 or not.
         That would of been wise thing to do. Because of this,  We all speak loudly and out of place at time in our lives. Puppet is smart enough to realize that he can not accept
this Anya Yakubu bet.  Because it a loosing bet. Don't accept this bet.  Regardless of other peoples math, mine tells me that if PBMIning.com  If is really mining then they would be around a year from now. However if they were not mining they would still be around, no doubt, and possible for years if run properly. Puppet did the right thing, this one year pb mining or not betting is not in good taste, I would most likely be taking his bitcoin. I will end it now.

 good point indeed Galdur,  However good move on his part.

[MrTeal]

As for being out of my mind; I did the math. Past week sales have been ~85 BTC (assuming the stats are correct). HIs payout ought to be ~380 BTC using the same assumption. So if you assume like me this is a ponzi, it doesnt take a math genius to figure out its not been a good week.

Are you just going by the stats on the website? He doesn't seem to be updating them anymore, but it does appear that he's still bringing in ~70BTC/day.
https://blockchain.info/charts/balance?address=1PiggyKTPYdtjPaHPTkJUnR314vz2v1wfs
It's hard to say how much is new money and how much would be brought in through the mixer, but there's still some funneling in.

[galdur]

Here is how I propose to formulate the bet:
This bet will resolve to "yes" if before November 25 2015, most or all pbmining.com customers stop receiving their weekly payments, or receive payments that are significantly below that which corresponds to the theoretical yield of their purchased hashrate vs bitcoin difficulty at that time .

Simple, completely in line with the claims I made and no obvious loopholes. Ill leave it up to the escrow to determine what "significant" constitutes, as it seems unlikely to be a number that could cause confusion.

Puppet, for long time now you been saying is obvious ponzi and going to fail ,  for long time now you been saying it going to fail soon. That within a year wont be here. Because it's a PonZi right ?  you been making statement that PB mining.com is a scam, the finaces look bad, it going to fail within a year. Going to fail within a year, we heard this over and over from you. Therefore . after all these statement, what I am asking you is do you believe PB will fail by NOV. 25. ?  This isn't about hash rate or bitcoin difficulty, theoretical yield of any of that crap. It's simple are you willing to put your .5 bitcoin on the line to back up what you been saying out here for weeks , that PB is going to fail.  I only ask you agree to pay or at least stop saying this, As its not good to be publicaly saying things you you your are not willing to support as your word as an honest man in the world, and your bitcoin. Say only what you really believe in , use it sparingly.  Treat it as your treasure

Why you waste time on this screwball is totally beyond me.
 Because with as much as you think you know about math, there is always someone that knows a bit more than you do. In this case, I only wish we had seen Puppet  step to the plate recline on the bet, based on miscalculation. Rather than through complications into this. Pb either going to be here to NOV. 25 or not.
         That would of been wise thing to do. Because of this,  We all speak loudly and out of place at time in our lives. Puppet is smart enough to realize that he can not accept
this Anya Yakubu bet.  Because it a loosing bet. Don't accept this bet.  Regardless of other peoples math, mine tells me that if PBMIning.com  If is really mining then they would be around a year from now. However if they were not mining they would still be around, no doubt, and possible for years if run properly. Puppet did the right thing, this one year pb mining or not betting is not in good taste, I would most likely be taking his bitcoin. I will end it now.

 good point indeed Galdur,  However good move on his part.

The full moon is days away. Trust me; their obsessive mania is going to get even worse 

[Anyayakubu]

Here is how I propose to formulate the bet:
This bet will resolve to "yes" if before November 25 2015, most or all pbmining.com customers stop receiving their weekly payments, or receive payments that are significantly below that which corresponds to the theoretical yield of their purchased hashrate vs bitcoin difficulty at that time .

Simple, completely in line with the claims I made and no obvious loopholes. Ill leave it up to the escrow to determine what "significant" constitutes, as it seems unlikely to be a number that could cause confusion.

Puppet, for long time now you been saying is obvious ponzi and going to fail ,  for long time now you been saying it going to fail soon. That within a year wont be here. Because it's a PonZi right ?  you been making statement that PB mining.com is a scam, the finaces look bad, it going to fail within a year. Going to fail within a year, we heard this over and over from you. Therefore . after all these statement, what I am asking you is do you believe PB will fail by NOV. 25. ?  This isn't about hash rate or bitcoin difficulty, theoretical yield of any of that crap. It's simple are you willing to put your .5 bitcoin on the line to back up what you been saying out here for weeks , that PB is going to fail.  I only ask you agree to pay or at least stop saying this, As its not good to be publicaly saying things you you your are not willing to support as your word as an honest man in the world, and your bitcoin. Say only what you really believe in , use it sparingly.  Treat it as your treasure

I don't think Puppet's conditions are unreasonable. It's more common with Bitcoin scams to not actually disappear entirely. They have a convenient fire/hacking/other catastrophe, followed by promises to make the investors whole (often with a few small payments), followed by months of dragging things out until people become tired of following it. It should hardly be considered a win for the "It's not a ponzi" side if after 3 months pbmining stops sending payouts, but drizzles out a couple hundred BTC over
the course of 6 months while dragging things out.

This was never a bet about wether this was a ponzi or not.  It was if Pbmining.com would be here NOV. 25 of next year. with PB mining  I'm sure other know and can fill you in on the details , PB mines and derives it calculations by alogrthem  which is constant but changing with difficulty, therefore and my math agrees , all these arguments  and this slander I've heard, of PB is an insult. Look, if the payments of mining becomes dust, as I often hear out here, its going to not only be PB mining whose payments are dust its going to be everybodys payments whose payments are dust. That argument of how low the payments are because of difficulty doesn't mean anything about PB but more about the entire bitcoin network in general
 One other thing, when you make any kind of bet, always work it down, to yes or no situation date ect, don't let all these foolish complications you heard here destroy it   keep it down to a yes or now bet or you will need two judges and three lawyers to sort it out

[MrTeal]

This was never a bet about wether this was a ponzi or not.  It was if Pbmining.com would be here NOV. 25 of next year. with PB mining  I'm sure other know and can fill you in on the details , PB mines and derives it calculations by alogrthem  which is constant but changing with difficulty, therefore and my math agrees , all these arguments  and this slander I've heard, of PB is an insult. Look, if the payments of mining becomes dust, as I often hear out here, its going to not only be PB mining whose payments are dust its going to be everybodys payments whose payments are dust. That argument of how low the payments are because of difficulty doesn't mean anything about PB but more about the entire bitcoin network in general
 One other thing, when you make any kind of bet, always work it down, to yes or no situation date ect, don't let all these foolish complications you heard here destroy it   keep it down to a yes or now bet or you will need two judges and three lawyers to sort it out

I can't speak for Puppet, but his proposed terms would count it as a win for you if next year pbmining.com was paying out dust if that is what 1GH/s is earning. However, if your contract is supposed to earn 1BTC/week and pbmining is paying out 0.1BTC/week for that amount of hashing power, that's a pretty clear violation of the contract. His condition was that he would win if pbmining stops paying, or pays significantly less than what they should be based on their algorithm which is essentially just 100%PPS.

The precise conditions make the bet less ambiguous, not more so.

[galdur]

Anya, don´t let those creeps screw with your head.

Just ignore them.

[Anyayakubu]

Anya, don´t let those creeps screw with your head.

Just ignore them.

Thanks Galdur, Its amazing how people will go on endlessly for weeks and even months with misinformation about how this is a ponzi , its a scam , its going to be gone soon, Its only a few weeks from oblivion, its going to be gone in six months , its going to be gone in one year, then they throw some bitcoin math at you that no one sure where it came from.  But you know Galdur, when its time to match your talk with actual bitcoin, thats what seperates the men from the boys, and in this case the boys from the girls.
Every morning when I set off on my bitcoin mining adventure,  I make sure I have my boots properly tied , with no laces dragging. I've got my belt synched up so my skirt isn't hanging low, most important of all, my mom packs my lunch box with extra snacks and drinks because I know I'll need the extra energy for this bitcoin adventure.

[MrTeal]

Anya, don´t let those creeps screw with your head.

Just ignore them.

Thanks Galdur, Its amazing how people will go on endlessly for weeks and even months with misinformation about how this is a ponzi , its a scam , its going to be gone soon, Its only a few weeks from oblivion, its going to be gone in six months , its going to be gone in one year, then they throw some bitcoin math at you that no one sure where it came from.  But you know Galdur, when its time to match your talk with actual bitcoin, thats what seperates the men from the boys, and in this case the boys from the girls.
Every morning when I set off on my bitcoin mining adventure,  I make sure I have my boots properly tied , with no laces dragging. I've got my belt synched up so my skirt isn't hanging low, most important of all, my mom packs my lunch box with extra snacks and drinks because I know I'll need the extra energy for this bitcoin adventure.

Out of curiosity, what terms are you actually looking for on a bet here? I might be interested in a bet, should they be reasonable.

[miner454]

Why are you in a rush to get me to confirm this?  You've got 11 months before you should begin worrying (/hoping). Its not gonna take me that long to organize escrow. I OTOH, cant be too sure you'll be around come Monday.

Anyway, as escrow I propose Tomatocage or Bitbob:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276897.0

I have yet to ask either if they can do 3 way signature, but Im assuming at least one of them can. Let me know if you can live with those choices.

As for the phrasing of the bet; lets call it pbmining.com and not "pb". I also want to stipulate that I win the bet if payouts substantially diverge from theoretical mining yields. So for instance if pbmining comes up with some new fee or whatever, to reduce payouts to a few satoshi, or declares being hacked/fire/whatever and begins paying out just a fraction of what would be expected based on difficulty, I still win.

Does puppet work for cex.io who charges so much mining fees?

[Anyayakubu]

the details of the proposed bet is at end of page 242, its over , bet declined.  you don't want to do this, this is not what we should be doing, betting on if a bitcoin minning operation is going to go belly up or not. This is in bad form. I will not do this anymore. It's a fools bet anyway, with more chance of loosing than winning.  I'm done with this.
Lets do something positive for bitcoin and our mining position now.

[MrTeal]

the details of the proposed bet is at end of page 242, its over , bet declined.  you don't want to do this, this is not what we should be doing, betting on if a bitcoin minning operation is going to go belly up or not. This is in bad form. I will not do this anymore. It's a fools bet anyway, with more chance of loosing than winning.  I'm done with this.
Lets do something positive for bitcoin and our mining position now.

Yeah, but fail is a pretty ambiguous term. If a year from now pbmining hasn't paid anyone for 4 months, but the website is still active and they're posting "We promise we're going to pay everyone back, we just need more time." would you consider that failed? I would say yes, but if you're on the other side of the bet you'd obviously be inclined to say no and that they're still active.

Betting without clear terms is what will get the lawyers involved. I can understand why you're not interested in actually putting money on the line though, given the nature of the entity you're betting on.

[jimmothy]

One other thing, when you make any kind of bet, always work it down, to yes or no situation date ect, don't let all these foolish complications you heard here destroy it   keep it down to a yes or now bet or you will need two judges and three lawyers to sort it out

Your ambiguous terms make it clear you've never made bet before (not a serious one anyways). Puppet made you a very fair bet with clear terms, why do you refuse?

Are you now admitting that there's a huge chance this ponzi wont last another year so you don't want to make the bet anymore?

Thanks Galdur, Its amazing how people will go on endlessly for weeks and even months with misinformation about how this is a ponzi , its a scam , its going to be gone soon, Its only a few weeks from oblivion, its going to be gone in six months , its going to be gone in one year, then they throw some bitcoin math at you that no one sure where it came from.  But you know Galdur, when its time to match your talk with actual bitcoin, thats what seperates the men from the boys, and in this case the boys from the girls.

What misinformation about how this is a ponzi?

What about the fact that new investments were used to payout "mining earnings"?

Using new investor funds to payout old investors is the very definition of a ponzi scheme.

[Anyayakubu]

Mr. Teal, if something like that were to happen I would consider it a fail and just pay, if anything of this extreme nature happen even a week or two of not paying for me that would be PB in default and me loosing  even if that happened for only one or two weeks.  You see that why I keep the original agreement that I wrote simple but percise.
Nothing to be confusing or need a lawyer or a bunch of keys.  At one time a persons word given in public was the commitment and the proof. Like the  blockchain , verified by the miners. I don't know how this would work out with everyone, but I like to think i can be reasonable and intelligent enough in the future to know , Is PB here or is it not and is it paying out or is not.  I think most of us here can figure it out.

[jimmothy]

Mr. Teal, if something like that were to happen I would consider it a fail and just pay, if anything of this extreme nature happen even a week or two of not paying for me that would be PB in default and me loosing  even if that happened for only one or two weeks.  You see that why I keep the original agreement that I wrote simple but percise.
Nothing to be confusing or need a lawyer or a bunch of keys.  At one time a persons word given in public was the commitment and the proof. Like the  blockchain , verified by the miners. I don't know how this would work out with everyone, but I like to think i can be reasonable and intelligent enough in the future to know , Is PB here or is it not and is it paying out or is not.  I think most of us here can figure it out.

I don't think you've been here long enough to understand the bitcoin ecosystem. 90% of people here will do anything to make a quick buck. They will lie, cheat, steal, etc. It's unfortunate, but it's reality. People call it the wild west for a reason.

Chances are good that after a few months pbmining disappears in some strange/unpredictable fashion and because the scenario wasn't a "fail" in your mind, you want your money back. I know you think you have integrity and would never cheat Puppet, but in the bitcoin world, blindly trusting anyone is a sure-fire way to have your money stolen from you.

That's why when you make a bet, you do it with clear terms that can only be interpreted one way.

[MrTeal]

Mr. Teal, if something like that were to happen I would consider it a fail and just pay, if anything of this extreme nature happen even a week or two of not paying for me that would be PB in default and me loosing  even if that happened for only one or two weeks.  You see that why I keep the original agreement that I wrote simple but percise.
Nothing to be confusing or need a lawyer or a bunch of keys.  At one time a persons word given in public was the commitment and the proof. Like the  blockchain , verified by the miners. I don't know how this would work out with everyone, but I like to think i can be reasonable and intelligent enough in the future to know , Is PB here or is it not and is it paying out or is not.  I think most of us here can figure it out.

No offense, but the idea of my word is my bond works in personal relationships between people where there are actual consequences to breaking your word. Since you've joined up here a few months ago every post of yours has been in this thread, other than a couple in the cloudmining.website thread. There is nothing tying you to this online identity, and no consequences to breaking your word. Hell, I've done quite a decent bit of business through this forum and being labeled a scammer would significantly impact my future ability to make money, and if I were Puppet looking to make a bet with me I would want that coin in escrow. There's a reason you need to put your cash on the table when you make a bet in poker.

Given what you've said, I can only assume you either didn't ever really want to make a bet, or you misunderstood the terms Puppet suggested.

[Anyayakubu]

Total nonsense Jimothy,I think I was very clear. If pb fails, were all going to be talking about it out here, if that day comes its not going to be did it fail or did it not, if you didnt get your payment , it failed , High hopes for ever getting any more payments.  Funny how you think I dont understand things. How many people in the past many ponzi's got a soft landing? did they have hope?  hope that they going to get their 200 bucks back in that  chain letter the neighbor talked them into.  I was offered  unfair deal by puppet , that why I didn't accept his deal, can't hire two lawyers to figure bitcoin mining profitabliity  and how much of to blame on PB.  

[jimmothy]

Total nonsense Jimothy,I think I was very clear. If pb fails, were all going to be talking about it out here, if that day comes its not going to be did it fail or did it not, if you didnt get your payment , it failed , High hopes for ever getting any more payments.  Funny how you think I dont understand things. How many people in the past many ponzi's got a soft landing? did they have hope?  hope that they going to get their 200 bucks back in that  chain letter the neighbor talked them into.  I was offered  unfair deal by puppet , that why I didn't accept his deal, can't hire two lawyers to figure bitcoin mining profitabliity  and how much of to blame on PB.  

What if pbmining later transfers 100% of their customers hashrate to KNC/Bitfury without ever proving they owned hardware? What if they start charging outrageous fees? Will you consider that a fail or not? The point is to remove opinions from the equation.

Like Mr. Teal said, I don't think you understand Puppets terms. He is just saying that if the payouts drop below the theoretical yield (i.e. introducing fees or something) then he wins. It has nothing to do with difficulty/profitability. It's exactly what you wanted to bet on, only without ambiguous terms.

[MrTeal]

Total nonsense Jimothy,I think I was very clear. If pb fails, were all going to be talking about it out here, if that day comes its not going to be did it fail or did it not, if you didnt get your payment , it failed , High hopes for ever getting any more payments.  Funny how you think I dont understand things. How many people in the past many ponzi's got a soft landing? did they have hope?  hope that they going to get their 200 bucks back in that  chain letter the neighbor talked them into.  I was offered  unfair deal by puppet , that why I didn't accept his deal, can't hire two lawyers to figure bitcoin mining profitabliity  and how much of to blame on PB.  

All of them? Seriously, it happens all the time. Very rarely does the operator just run away; it's almost always some calamity followed by a slow, painful death where the true believers continue to hold out hope against all odds. Take a look in the AMC/VMC threads right now for an example of a company that's held people's money for a year and a half and returned nothing. It wasn't under this summer that people stopped expecting the glorious future, and there are still people defending the operation despite the fact the operator is being taken to court by the Missouri securities commission and took what was left of the operation and hasn't been heard of for months.
"Failed" is more subjective than you might realize.

[Anyayakubu]

Total nonsense Jimothy,I think I was very clear. If pb fails, were all going to be talking about it out here, if that day comes its not going to be did it fail or did it not, if you didnt get your payment , it failed , High hopes for ever getting any more payments.  Funny how you think I dont understand things. How many people in the past many ponzi's got a soft landing? did they have hope?  hope that they going to get their 200 bucks back in that  chain letter the neighbor talked them into.  I was offered  unfair deal by puppet , that why I didn't accept his deal, can't hire two lawyers to figure bitcoin mining profitabliity  and how much of to blame on PB.  

What if pbmining later transfers 100% of their customers hashrate to KNC/Bitfury without ever proving they owned hardware? What if they start charging outrageous fees? Will you consider that a fail or not? The point is to remove opinions from the equation.

Like Mr. Teal said, I don't think you understand Puppets terms. He is just saying that if the payouts drop below the theoretical yield (i.e. introducing fees or something) then he wins. It has nothing to do with difficulty/profitability. It's exactly what you wanted to bet on, only without ambiguous terms.

Jimmothy, Let all of us take a couple deap breaths, feels great try it,  Now focus with me. Understand if you use this phrase theoretical yield ever again , Nice people should shun you even in broad daylight. Possibly your virtual mouth should be washed out with soap.  Let us pray together now, that this term, theoretical yield should never be used,
ever again where there might be decent folK and even children around.
          Maybe your a late comer or a slow learner Jimothy , but puppet who you think his deal is so great,  Rejected a perfectly simple straight forward deal. 
The reason why we having this conversation now is not because we have a problem of theoretical yield, It because Puppet for weeks and months has been saying PB a ponizi ,it going to fold , some long time members even took the PB signature out of their profile because of this. He has made repeated statements of PB will end.  Even how we should have a victim restitution fun for the poor looser in the end of this ponzi
 This isn't about difficulty or yield, Pb charges no fees,  However Puppet been saying  that PB going to end. check for your self even today he post that Pb only going to be around weeks more and might even to be able to work out six month bet. Because Pb not going to be around long. I've challenged that.  I stick by it,