[ANN] [PMC] Premine Coin | Rare | Mining Transaction Fee Proof of Concept

[yogibaer]

True that but you are forgetting that PoW coins get their value from amount of money invested in obtaining them from digital
ground. Just like gold or silver in real world, price is bound to the costs of mining the resource. No one in the right mind will
pay 1,000 USD for something that costs 1 USD to be created. ....

That means that once BTC or any other coins are mined completely it will lose all it's value because no new coins can be found.

[1715595718]

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[Nullu]

True that but you are forgetting that PoW coins get their value from amount of money invested in obtaining them from digital
ground. Just like gold or silver in real world, price is bound to the costs of mining the resource. No one in the right mind will
pay 1,000 USD for something that costs 1 USD to be created. ....

That means that once BTC or any other coins are mined completely it will lose all it's value because no new coins can be found.

No, just means no new coins are minted. That's one of the major benefits of Bitcoin. It's anti-inflationary.

[Burninj]

True that but you are forgetting that PoW coins get their value from amount of money invested in obtaining them from digital
ground. Just like gold or silver in real world, price is bound to the costs of mining the resource. No one in the right mind will
pay 1,000 USD for something that costs 1 USD to be created. ....

That means that once BTC or any other coins are mined completely it will lose all it's value because no new coins can be found.

That's one of the point of Premine, well if we manage to get it a real value, and that's another story...

[subSTRATA]

True that but you are forgetting that PoW coins get their value from amount of money invested in obtaining them from digital
ground. Just like gold or silver in real world, price is bound to the costs of mining the resource. No one in the right mind will
pay 1,000 USD for something that costs 1 USD to be created. ....

That means that once BTC or any other coins are mined completely it will lose all it's value because no new coins can be found.

That depends on the BTC price and the price of hardware required to mine it. Equilibrium between money invested and money
earned will always be found at some point. Maybe one day 0.01 BTC you'd get from tx fees alone will be totally enough to not
just pay electricity and hardware costs but have enough extra cash to just mine BTC and enjoy the life.

It seems to me some of you are counting on the math 0 PMC from block reward means 1 PMC cost what, 1000+ BTC? Haha
that won't work, people just won't mine PMC. At least those who pay their electricity bills and have considerable amount of
money invested into mining hardware. I ain't gonna be mining PMC unless it's utility and investments at least balance each
other out (mining with zero profit).

[yogibaer]

True that but you are forgetting that PoW coins get their value from amount of money invested in obtaining them from digital
ground. Just like gold or silver in real world, price is bound to the costs of mining the resource. No one in the right mind will
pay 1,000 USD for something that costs 1 USD to be created. ....

That means that once BTC or any other coins are mined completely it will lose all it's value because no new coins can be found.

No, just means no new coins are minted. That's one of the major benefits of Bitcoin. It's anti-inflationary.

yes I know that.

[The Grinder]

True that but you are forgetting that PoW coins get their value from amount of money invested in obtaining them from digital
ground. Just like gold or silver in real world, price is bound to the costs of mining the resource. No one in the right mind will
pay 1,000 USD for something that costs 1 USD to be created. Some here are comparing NXT with PMC but there can't be much
said that satisfies both coins. They are both premined and that is the only similarity. Or you wanna tell me changing few lines
in Bitcoin code equalls creating the 1st ever PoS altcoin from zero? Get real. You wanna create 1+ million value by doing a bit
more work than pressing ENTER on your keyboard.

Oh come on! The labour theory of value is outdated since 1871. Value is defined by utility and availability.

[Nullu]

True that but you are forgetting that PoW coins get their value from amount of money invested in obtaining them from digital
ground. Just like gold or silver in real world, price is bound to the costs of mining the resource. No one in the right mind will
pay 1,000 USD for something that costs 1 USD to be created. ....

That means that once BTC or any other coins are mined completely it will lose all it's value because no new coins can be found.

No, just means no new coins are minted. That's one of the major benefits of Bitcoin. It's anti-inflationary.

yes I know that.

Oh, I see what you meant now. It was just the way you phrased it. 

[Burninj]

True that but you are forgetting that PoW coins get their value from amount of money invested in obtaining them from digital
ground. Just like gold or silver in real world, price is bound to the costs of mining the resource. No one in the right mind will
pay 1,000 USD for something that costs 1 USD to be created. Some here are comparing NXT with PMC but there can't be much
said that satisfies both coins. They are both premined and that is the only similarity. Or you wanna tell me changing few lines
in Bitcoin code equalls creating the 1st ever PoS altcoin from zero? Get real. You wanna create 1+ million value by doing a bit
more work than pressing ENTER on your keyboard.

Oh come on! The labour theory of value is outdated since 1871. Value is defined by utility and availability.

That's sad but it's so true, real labour work don't pay anymore in a world rulled by cyberspace...

[hilgi]

still 300 to reach my 1k for 10x25 users giveaway

You still trying to sell the rest? Maybe do a small give away now to show you mean it, and perhaps I can help.

here you go

next 20 people get 5 PMC

post your address

I meant a giveaway thread. Need to be able to verify.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=434310.0 Give Away threads are not welcome any more here on the forum .... 

Are there other forums for alts?

[EcuaMobi]

True that but you are forgetting that PoW coins get their value from amount of money invested in obtaining them from digital
ground. Just like gold or silver in real world, price is bound to the costs of mining the resource. No one in the right mind will
pay 1,000 USD for something that costs 1 USD to be created.

That's true. If something costs 1 USD to produce, then it's worth somewhat close to 1 USD.
It's important to note though that what matters is how much it costs right now, not yesterday or one year ago.

For example, one year ago it was much cheaper to produce 1 BTC than it is right now. However, the cost of every BTC (even those produced 3 years ago) goes according to the cost of producing it now.

So, how much does it cost to produce 1 PMC right now? It's very difficult to say considering it's impossible to create new coins now.

[Nullu]

True that but you are forgetting that PoW coins get their value from amount of money invested in obtaining them from digital
ground. Just like gold or silver in real world, price is bound to the costs of mining the resource. No one in the right mind will
pay 1,000 USD for something that costs 1 USD to be created.

That's true. If something costs 1 USD to produce, then it's worth somewhat close to 1 USD.
It's important to note though that what matters is how much it costs right now, not yesterday or one year ago.

For example, one year ago it was much cheaper to produce 1 BTC than it is right now. However, the cost of every BTC (even those produced 3 years ago) goes according to the cost of producing it now.

So, how much does it cost to produce 1 PMC right now? It's very difficult to say considering it's impossible to create new coins now.

It's going to be very hard to say until at least we have some network consistency. It's even hard to calculate such things with Bitcoin now thanks to ASICs.

I've generated 0.2 PMC on 1.2 ghash/sec after a few hours. Until there are more transactions and steady tx fees, it's very hard to calculate. It's odd, really. I've made 0.2 PMC and it seems quite a lot due to the scarcity of mining it, but it also seems a lot less when I consider my stake of a few thousand.

So it depends on your perspective as well. When it becomes really scarce, a couple of PMC could be a valuable thing to have. Those small holders now could create a lot of market activity if the price went high enough, and by that point most people would have dumped.

Remember, people dumped Bitcoin in the early days, too. We shouldn't be too worried about that.

[yogibaer]

True that but you are forgetting that PoW coins get their value from amount of money invested in obtaining them from digital
ground. Just like gold or silver in real world, price is bound to the costs of mining the resource. No one in the right mind will
pay 1,000 USD for something that costs 1 USD to be created.

That's true. If something costs 1 USD to produce, then it's worth somewhat close to 1 USD.
It's important to note though that what matters is how much it costs right now, not yesterday or one year ago.

For example, one year ago it was much cheaper to produce 1 BTC than it is right now. However, the cost of every BTC (even those produced 3 years ago) goes according to the cost of producing it now.

So, how much does it cost to produce 1 PMC right now? It's very difficult to say considering it's impossible to create new coins now.

That's exactly the question. PMC, BTC and so on all of them need new blocks to keep up the flow of the coins whether there is a block reward of x coins or only a fee per transaction. And the fees per transaction are always less than block rewards.

[creditcoin_CRD]

PMC Dice game is live.

If you are into dice games I encourage you to give it a go. This will help generate fees for the miners.


http://www.altcoingambling.com/16BitBet/PMC

[subSTRATA]

Cost of producing 1 PMC now is infinite but valuation based on that will utterly fail unless you take into consideration the utility
of PMC, security ot network and dozen other factors. For example, will you invest 1 BTC into PMC when some funny guy can come
and paralyse mining by mere adding few THashes and reject everyone's tx and blocks? There are people out there who could do
it for fun, because they can or some other reason. BOTNET operator might do it to test how much PMC he would get from tx fees
and so on. So, a guy paralyses PMC, increases difficulty to 100k and jumps off the chain, what happens next? I think you know.

[Nullu]

PMC Dice game is live.

If you are into dice games I encourage you to give it a go. This will help generate fees for the miners.


http://www.altcoingambling.com/16BitBet/PMC

I am not a gambling man, however, I will "donate" to the game when I get home to support the network while my script is processing today's mined block rewards.

[kingscrown]

lets get some!

1LPykwMxHQYPN2kBTfoKhmucLD25gGpxWE

[EcuaMobi]

still 300 to reach my 1k for 10x25 users giveaway

You still trying to sell the rest? Maybe do a small give away now to show you mean it, and perhaps I can help.

here you go

next 20 people get 5 PMC

post your address

I meant a giveaway thread. Need to be able to verify.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=434310.0 Give Away threads are not welcome any more here on the forum .... 

Are there other forums for alts?

I think I'll need to move my giveaway thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=430394) to http://preminecoin.cryptotycoons.com/forum/

Maybe there should be a "Giveaway" category there?
So we can create new threads on bitcointalk just to link to our threads on preminecoin.cryptotycoons?

[creditcoin_CRD]

Cost of producing 1 PMC now is infinite but valuation based on that will utterly fail unless you take into consideration the utility
of PMC, security ot network and dozen other factors. For example, will you invest 1 BTC into PMC when some funny guy can come
and paralyse mining by mere adding few THashes and reject everyone's tx and blocks? There are people out there who could do
it for fun, because they can or some other reason. BOTNET operator might do it to test how much PMC he would get from tx fees
and so on. So, a guy paralyses PMC, increases difficulty to 100k and jumps off the chain, what happens next? I think you know.

Makes me sad.

[subSTRATA]

Cost of producing 1 PMC now is infinite but valuation based on that will utterly fail unless you take into consideration the utility
of PMC, security ot network and dozen other factors. For example, will you invest 1 BTC into PMC when some funny guy can come
and paralyse mining by mere adding few THashes and reject everyone's tx and blocks? There are people out there who could do
it for fun, because they can or some other reason. BOTNET operator might do it to test how much PMC he would get from tx fees
and so on. So, a guy paralyses PMC, increases difficulty to 100k and jumps off the chain, what happens next? I think you know.

Makes me sad.

Well it does not have to be that way. Bitcoin Testnet artificially drops difficulty to just 0.5 if block is not found after 20 minutes.
It does that temporaly, the next block difficulty goes up to same value as one before (for example, 1k > 0.5 > 1k) and then after
2016 blocks classic difficulty retarget kicks in. That system works like charm! Another example is TerraCoin with artificial halving
of difficulty but that experiment failed because halving was permanent (for example, 1k > 500 > 500) which allowed smart guys
with a lot of hashpower to exploit it so TerraCoin had yet another hard-fork.

[creditcoin_CRD]

Cost of producing 1 PMC now is infinite but valuation based on that will utterly fail unless you take into consideration the utility
of PMC, security ot network and dozen other factors. For example, will you invest 1 BTC into PMC when some funny guy can come
and paralyse mining by mere adding few THashes and reject everyone's tx and blocks? There are people out there who could do
it for fun, because they can or some other reason. BOTNET operator might do it to test how much PMC he would get from tx fees
and so on. So, a guy paralyses PMC, increases difficulty to 100k and jumps off the chain, what happens next? I think you know.

Makes me sad.

Well it does not have to be that way. Bitcoin Testnet artificially drops difficulty to just 0.5 if block is not found after 20 minutes.
It does that temporaly, the next block difficulty goes up to same value as one before (for example, 1k > 0.5 > 1k) and then after
2016 blocks classic difficulty retarget kicks in. That system works like charm! Another example is TerraCoin with artificial halving
of difficulty but that experiment failed because halving was permanent (for example, 1k > 500 > 500) which allowed smart guys
with a lot of hashpower to exploit it so TerraCoin had yet another hard-fork.

I do remember that