[ANN] [PMC] Premine Coin | Rare | Mining Transaction Fee Proof of Concept

[deodecagone]

That was a bad timing for that, the only exchange had an almost empty orderbook, the one won't have the possibility to sell them while a new wallet is out.

An advise do not trade now anything even out of the exchange, you could be seriously scammed.

[Nullu]

I wish I understood the tech aspects better.  

Yep, could someone explain it for dummys?

Someone with a better miner than everyone else together changed the rules of the game at will.

^ this


and im 99.9% sure i know who.

Is it possibel to fix such a problem? And how?

You fork the blockchain from the wallet just before the hacker sabotaged the blockchain, and change the rules in the wallet to prevent it ever happening again.

That fixes it for now. But we need some changes to prevent that from happening in the future.
Mainly, we need to encourage more miners to switch to PMC.

And using scrypt would help against ASIC.

The 0 block rewards did not help. Changing to CPU, Scrypt, Scrypt-Jane or even some of the more esoteric algorithms would fix the problem. It needs to be ASIC resilient, and have some way of forcing a minimum tx fee for every transaction.

[Bigeyeone]

Please explain to me how an attacker can fork the blockchain, and from then on put a block reward on 1000 coins on every newly mined block.

I am not getting it how this is suppose to work.

The way I understand things is :

It is our client, the software that determines the block reward, when our client creates a new block it determines the block reward from the rules within the software, it then sends this block out to the network and then the other clients verify whether that new block was created according to the rules, if not then the newly mined block will not get confirmed by the network.

I fail to see how all of the sudden my client would decide to reward a new block with 1000 coins, when the software is still the same and then how all the other clients on the network accept this new block when the 1000 coins block reward is clearly against the rules of the software.

I doubt the attacker scenario, I think it is much more likely that it is simply a bug in the software that has always been there.

[Benezivas]

Please explain to me how an attacker can fork the blockchain, and from then on put a block reward on 1000 coins on every newly mined block.

 I am not getting it how this is suppose to work.

The way I understand thing is :

It is our client, the software that determines the block reward, when our client creates a new block it determines the block reward from the rules within the software, it then sends this block out to the network and then the other clients verify whether that new block was created according to the rules, if not then the newly mined block will not get confirmed by the network.

I fail to see how all of the sudden my client would decide to reward a new block with 1000 coins, when the software is still the same and then how all the other clients on the network accept this new block when the 1000 coins block reward is clearly against the rules of the software.

I doubt the attacker scenario, I think it is much more likely that it is simply a bug in the software that has always been there.

Your logic is almost correct, just take the following into the szenario: More than 51% of all miners (measured in pure hashing power) decide that the new, malicious chain is the way to go. Tada, now that the majority mines on that new chain, the rest follows.

[Nullu]

Please explain to me how an attacker can fork the blockchain, and from then on put a block reward on 1000 coins on every newly mined block.

 I am not getting it how this is suppose to work.

The way I understand thing is :

It is our client, the software that determines the block reward, when our client creates a new block it determines the block reward from the rules within the software, it then sends this block out to the network and then the other clients verify whether that new block was created according to the rules, if not then the newly mined block will not get confirmed by the network.

I fail to see how all of the sudden my client would decide to reward a new block with 1000 coins, when the software is still the same and then how all the other clients on the network accept this new block when the 1000 coins block reward is clearly against the rules of the software.

I doubt the attacker scenario, I think it is much more likely that it is simply a bug in the software that has always been there.

If you control over 51% of the network, you can fork the chain. That wallet that forked the chain can do anything it wants - in this case, add 1000 coins to every block.

It's absolutely possible and entirely plausible. You don't need to have every wallet running the malicious code. Just one. It would only take one big ASIC miner or rig to do it.

[creditcoin_CRD]

Please explain to me how an attacker can fork the blockchain, and from then on put a block reward on 1000 coins on every newly mined block.

 I am not getting it how this is suppose to work.

The way I understand thing is :

It is our client, the software that determines the block reward, when our client creates a new block it determines the block reward from the rules within the software, it then sends this block out to the network and then the other clients verify whether that new block was created according to the rules, if not then the newly mined block will not get confirmed by the network.

I fail to see how all of the sudden my client would decide to reward a new block with 1000 coins, when the software is still the same and then how all the other clients on the network accept this new block when the 1000 coins block reward is clearly against the rules of the software.

I doubt the attacker scenario, I think it is much more likely that it is simply a bug in the software that has always been there.

If you control over 51% of the network, you can fork the chain. That wallet that forked the chain can do anything it wants - in this case, add 1000 coins to every block.

It's absolutely possible and entirely plausible. You don't need to have every wallet running the malicious code. Just one. It would only take one big ASIC miner or rig to do it.

And not even a very big one at that. We were a very, very, tiny network in the grand scheme of things.

Somebody didn't like premine. Instead of moving along and finding a game they DID like they decided to break it so nobody could play. Kinda like that kid in school that used to flip the game board when things didn't go the way he liked.

[Bigeyeone]

Please explain to me how an attacker can fork the blockchain, and from then on put a block reward on 1000 coins on every newly mined block.

 I am not getting it how this is suppose to work.

The way I understand thing is :

It is our client, the software that determines the block reward, when our client creates a new block it determines the block reward from the rules within the software, it then sends this block out to the network and then the other clients verify whether that new block was created according to the rules, if not then the newly mined block will not get confirmed by the network.

I fail to see how all of the sudden my client would decide to reward a new block with 1000 coins, when the software is still the same and then how all the other clients on the network accept this new block when the 1000 coins block reward is clearly against the rules of the software.

I doubt the attacker scenario, I think it is much more likely that it is simply a bug in the software that has always been there.

If you control over 51% of the network, you can fork the chain. That wallet that forked the chain can do anything it wants - in this case, add 1000 coins to every block.

It's absolutely possible and entirely plausible. You don't need to have every wallet running the malicious code. Just one. It would only take one big ASIC miner or rig to do it.

I am still doubting it, do you agree that it is my client that determines the block reward from the rules within it's software ?

If it is my client that decides the block reward, how on earth did it all of the sudden decide to put a 1000 coin reward on the block ?

I can understand how a changed block reward gets accepted by the network as a result of a 51 % attack but I still fail to see how my client decides to generate a block with a 1000 coin block reward by itself as a result of a 51 % attack.

[creditcoin_CRD]

Please explain to me how an attacker can fork the blockchain, and from then on put a block reward on 1000 coins on every newly mined block.

 I am not getting it how this is suppose to work.

The way I understand thing is :

It is our client, the software that determines the block reward, when our client creates a new block it determines the block reward from the rules within the software, it then sends this block out to the network and then the other clients verify whether that new block was created according to the rules, if not then the newly mined block will not get confirmed by the network.

I fail to see how all of the sudden my client would decide to reward a new block with 1000 coins, when the software is still the same and then how all the other clients on the network accept this new block when the 1000 coins block reward is clearly against the rules of the software.

I doubt the attacker scenario, I think it is much more likely that it is simply a bug in the software that has always been there.

If you control over 51% of the network, you can fork the chain. That wallet that forked the chain can do anything it wants - in this case, add 1000 coins to every block.

It's absolutely possible and entirely plausible. You don't need to have every wallet running the malicious code. Just one. It would only take one big ASIC miner or rig to do it.

I am still doubting it, do you agree that it is my client that determines the block reward from the rules within it's software ?

If it is my client that decides the block reward, how on earth did it all of the sudden decide to put a 1000 coin reward on the block ?

I can understand how a changed block reward gets accepted by the network as a result of a 51 % attack but I still fail to see how my client decides to generate a block with a 1000 coin block reward by itself as a result of a 51 % attack.

Your client mined a 1000 PMC reward block ?

[Benezivas]

Please explain to me how an attacker can fork the blockchain, and from then on put a block reward on 1000 coins on every newly mined block.

 I am not getting it how this is suppose to work.

The way I understand thing is :

It is our client, the software that determines the block reward, when our client creates a new block it determines the block reward from the rules within the software, it then sends this block out to the network and then the other clients verify whether that new block was created according to the rules, if not then the newly mined block will not get confirmed by the network.

I fail to see how all of the sudden my client would decide to reward a new block with 1000 coins, when the software is still the same and then how all the other clients on the network accept this new block when the 1000 coins block reward is clearly against the rules of the software.

I doubt the attacker scenario, I think it is much more likely that it is simply a bug in the software that has always been there.

If you control over 51% of the network, you can fork the chain. That wallet that forked the chain can do anything it wants - in this case, add 1000 coins to every block.

It's absolutely possible and entirely plausible. You don't need to have every wallet running the malicious code. Just one. It would only take one big ASIC miner or rig to do it.

I am still doubting it, do you agree that it is my client that determines the block reward from the rules within it's software ?

If it is my client that decides the block reward, how on earth did it all of the sudden decide to put a 1000 coin reward on the block ?

I can understand how a changed block reward gets accepted by the network as a result of a 51 % attack but I still fail to see how my client decides to generate a block with a 1000 coin block reward by itself as a result of a 51 % attack.

Okay, here is the deal, explained simple: When you find a block, your wallet generates a new block (the next block to mine) by the rules of the network. The thing is, you could manipulate this very new block with some injected code and "change the rules", the rules which are stored in the very block. Now if you do this and send the new block out into the network as a normal miner, you would have created a new chain, a chain that is exactly the same to the old chain, with the only difference being your newly created block. But the other workers in the network pull your work and should naturally notice "that's not what I have on my plan here", reject the block and continue on the old chain. The problem arises when enough miners (hashing-wise) decide, that this very new block isn't in fact faulty and continue on the altered chain. If the other miners now pull new work from the network, they will pull the chain that the majority of the network uses and disregard the old chain.

That's roughly what is happening. Don't pin me down on details.

[dasource]

Please explain to me how an attacker can fork the blockchain, and from then on put a block reward on 1000 coins on every newly mined block.

 I am not getting it how this is suppose to work.

The way I understand thing is :

It is our client, the software that determines the block reward, when our client creates a new block it determines the block reward from the rules within the software, it then sends this block out to the network and then the other clients verify whether that new block was created according to the rules, if not then the newly mined block will not get confirmed by the network.

I fail to see how all of the sudden my client would decide to reward a new block with 1000 coins, when the software is still the same and then how all the other clients on the network accept this new block when the 1000 coins block reward is clearly against the rules of the software.

I doubt the attacker scenario, I think it is much more likely that it is simply a bug in the software that has always been there.

If you control over 51% of the network, you can fork the chain. That wallet that forked the chain can do anything it wants - in this case, add 1000 coins to every block.

It's absolutely possible and entirely plausible. You don't need to have every wallet running the malicious code. Just one. It would only take one big ASIC miner or rig to do it.

I am still doubting it, do you agree that it is my client that determines the block reward from the rules within it's software ?

If it is my client that decides the block reward, how on earth did it all of the sudden decide to put a 1000 coin reward on the block ?

I can understand how a changed block reward gets accepted by the network as a result of a 51 % attack but I still fail to see how my client decides to generate a block with a 1000 coin block reward by itself as a result of a 51 % attack.

Your client mined a 1000 PMC reward block ?

Since Block 16000 the rewards have been 1000PMC .....

[dasource]

I've taken the Faucet down until a fix is released.

[creditcoin_CRD]

I've taken the Faucet down until a fix is released.

Thank-you. I am checkpointing and working out a plan to fix it now.

[dasource]

I've taken the Faucet down until a fix is released.

Thank-you. I am checkpointing and working out a plan to fix it now.

No probs, I know this can be a pain and thanks for keeping on-top of it.

[subSTRATA]

Shall we start to panic and sacrifice something ?

For everyone that decides that it is time to panic and abort all hope: 1K7i8PYixVmJxPwh6AJbvBa77a2xXGyn5V

Now that's the spirit, congratz to both of you!  

[subSTRATA]

Anybody that is running 0.8.7 please shut it down.

I'm using v0.8.6-11-g03733a0-dirty-beta and getting 1k coins per block so it is probably not about 0.8.7 

[creditcoin_CRD]

Anybody that is running 0.8.7 please shut it down.

I'm using v0.8.6-11-g03733a0-dirty-beta and getting 1k coins per block so it is probably not about 0.8.7 

Yes, we've established that at this point.

[subSTRATA]

I wish I understood the tech aspects better.  

Yep, could someone explain it for dummys?

Someone with a better miner than everyone else together changed the rules of the game at will.

That is not possible. 51% attacker can not affect coin generation in any way except increase inflation via added hashpower.
If clients we use all have coded rule which says "generate no more coins if 500,000 coins exist" than no one can generate
any more coins that would be accepted by our clients. It makes no difference at all how much hashpower is in question.

[creditcoin_CRD]

I wish I understood the tech aspects better.  

Yep, could someone explain it for dummys?

Someone with a better miner than everyone else together changed the rules of the game at will.

That is not possible. 51% attacker can not affect coin generation in any way except increase inflation via added hashpower.
If clients we use all have coded rule which says "generate no more coins if 500,000 coins exist" than no one can generate
any more coins that would be accepted by our clients. It makes no difference at all how much hashpower is in question.

See, that's what I thought, but that obviously isn't the case.

[dasource]

I wish I understood the tech aspects better.  

Yep, could someone explain it for dummys?

Someone with a better miner than everyone else together changed the rules of the game at will.

That is not possible. 51% attacker can not affect coin generation in any way except increase inflation via added hashpower.
If clients we use all have coded rule which says "generate no more coins if 500,000 coins exist" than no one can generate
any more coins that would be accepted by our clients. It makes no difference at all how much hashpower is in question.

I am no expert BUT if the said attacker :

Modified the source, compiled new version.
Once he has 51% - it is possible since his fork now "rules" so to say.

[Bigeyeone]

folks are still trading coins at poloniex.com  even with all this going on, price even went up  

you guys now that all transactions done after the first block with the 1000 coin block reward will be undone with a hardfork by the dev right ?