creditcoin_CRD (OP)
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January 29, 2014, 10:53:11 PM |
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I wish I understood the tech aspects better.  Yep, could someone explain it for dummys? Someone with a better miner than everyone else together changed the rules of the game at will. That is not possible. 51% attacker can not affect coin generation in any way except increase inflation via added hashpower. If clients we use all have coded rule which says "generate no more coins if 500,000 coins exist" than no one can generate any more coins that would be accepted by our clients. It makes no difference at all how much hashpower is in question. I am no expert BUT if the said attacker : Modified the source, compiled new version. Once he has 51% - it is possible since his fork now "rules" so to say. This is my theory, but admittedly I don't know for sure yet. |
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Bigeyeone
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January 29, 2014, 11:00:46 PM |
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I wish I understood the tech aspects better. Yep, could someone explain it for dummys? Someone with a better miner than everyone else together changed the rules of the game at will. That is not possible. 51% attacker can not affect coin generation in any way except increase inflation via added hashpower. If clients we use all have coded rule which says "generate no more coins if 500,000 coins exist" than no one can generate any more coins that would be accepted by our clients. It makes no difference at all how much hashpower is in question. I am no expert BUT if the said attacker : Modified the source, compiled new version. Once he has 51% - it is possible since his fork now "rules" so to say. This is my theory, but admittedly I don't know for sure yet. The coin generation rules are coded into the client software, the rules are not in the blockchain, it is possible that a 51 % attacker compiled new code and that all the clients with the new code then started to generate 1000 coins per block and started to accept blocks with a 1000 coin block reward, but it is not possible for a 51 % attacker to make my original client generate 1000 coins per new block and that is exactly what it is doing now. |
PMC: 19dNRVPcjsESqo8isdauc1gQ6PbUrAZor9
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Nullu
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January 29, 2014, 11:03:19 PM |
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I wish I understood the tech aspects better. Yep, could someone explain it for dummys? Someone with a better miner than everyone else together changed the rules of the game at will. That is not possible. 51% attacker can not affect coin generation in any way except increase inflation via added hashpower. If clients we use all have coded rule which says "generate no more coins if 500,000 coins exist" than no one can generate any more coins that would be accepted by our clients. It makes no difference at all how much hashpower is in question. See, that's what I thought, but that obviously isn't the case. I heard there's vulnerabilities in old litecoin QT code that allows infinite generation of coins. https://github.com/dogecrap |
BTC - 14kYyhhWZwSJFHAjNTtyhRVSu157nE92gF
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subSTRATA
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January 29, 2014, 11:03:40 PM |
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Proof that you guys have no clue what you are talking about is bellow. https://i.imgur.com/pTUp53R.jpgUnderstand that I have been beta-testing not just Bitcoin clients but also Armory, MultiBit and dozen of crypto websites. I'm also active on Bitcoin Testnet and helping debug and break-to-bits stuff a lot here and elsewhere. |
theres nothing here. message me if you want to put something here.
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Bigeyeone
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January 29, 2014, 11:08:44 PM |
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Proof that you guys have no clue what you are talking about is bellow. https://i.imgur.com/pTUp53R.jpgUnderstand that I have been beta-testing not just Bitcoin clients but also Armory, MultiBit and dozen of crypto websites. I'm also active on Bitcoin Testnet and helping debug and break-to-bits stuff a lot here and elsewhere. I have the exact same evidence you have in that screenshot, the thing some people fail to understand here, and I have already mentioned this a couple of times is, that whatever a 51 % attacker might be able to do, he can not make your client and my client generate 1000 coins per block, that is the bottom line. The cause has to be within the code of our clients, so it must be a bug. |
PMC: 19dNRVPcjsESqo8isdauc1gQ6PbUrAZor9
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subSTRATA
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January 29, 2014, 11:10:38 PM |
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Proof that you guys have no clue what you are talking about is bellow. https://i.imgur.com/pTUp53R.jpgUnderstand that I have been beta-testing not just Bitcoin clients but also Armory, MultiBit and dozen of crypto websites. I'm also active on Bitcoin Testnet and helping debug and break-to-bits stuff a lot here and elsewhere. I have the exact same evidence you have in that screenshot, the thing some people fail to understand here, and I have already mentioned this a couple of times is, that whatever a 51 % attacker might be able to do, he can not make your client and my client generate 1000 coins per block, that is the bottom line. The cause has to be within the code of our clients, so it must be a bug. Exactly. |
theres nothing here. message me if you want to put something here.
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creditcoin_CRD (OP)
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January 29, 2014, 11:15:22 PM |
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Proof that you guys have no clue what you are talking about is bellow. https://i.imgur.com/pTUp53R.jpgUnderstand that I have been beta-testing not just Bitcoin clients but also Armory, MultiBit and dozen of crypto websites. I'm also active on Bitcoin Testnet and helping debug and break-to-bits stuff a lot here and elsewhere. I have the exact same evidence you have in that Screenshot, the thing some people fail to understand here, and I have already mentioned this a couple of times is, that whatever a 51 % attacker might be able to do, he can not make your client and my client generate 1000 coins per block, that is the bottom line. the cause has to be within the code of our clients, so it must be a bug. We will have to draw some conclusion as to what happened in order for it to be fixed. I do think that since the official wallets ARE in fact generating blocks with 1000 PMC rewards that does make it seem more like a bug. However I still have not completely ruled out other possibilities. One thing is for sure, It's going to take more than just myself to fix this. If you have some experience and care to help, send me a PM. One way or another this must be fixed. I've put too much effort into it to quit. |
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subSTRATA
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January 29, 2014, 11:17:47 PM |
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Block that does not follow rules is discarded and client that submitted it is banned by all legit nodes that received block from
it for the next 24 hours. Given that I'm mining 1k coins blocks and not one of 8 other clients I'm connected to are banning me
it seems the case is clear ... there is something wrong with the code starting with first ever client posted on this thread. On
a first look, PMC is not actualy premined in genesis block but actualy instamined in first few thousand blocks. That means it
worked just like any other coin that will one day stop generating new coins but generation period is radically shorter than most
other coins. Maybe that is where things went wrong but where in the code something went wrong I can't tell, I'm not coder!
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theres nothing here. message me if you want to put something here.
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Nullu
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January 29, 2014, 11:29:29 PM |
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Ironically, you may have to offer a Premine bounty to fix Premine.
That'll be an interesting one.
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BTC - 14kYyhhWZwSJFHAjNTtyhRVSu157nE92gF
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creditcoin_CRD (OP)
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January 29, 2014, 11:31:08 PM |
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Ironically, you may have to offer a Premine bounty to fix Premine.
That'll be an interesting one.
I lol'd |
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subSTRATA
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January 29, 2014, 11:50:47 PM
Last edit: January 30, 2014, 12:25:47 AM by subSTRATA |
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One thing with PMC that is definitely bugged is the way blocks that generated 0 coins 0 tx fees are shown in wallet. They
never confirm! The first such block I've mined still uses clock icon instead of checkmark even after 5,000+ confirms. It could
be it is up to icon itself but than again blocks that had tx fees are shown properly. Obviously, client treats blocks differently
based on tx fees alone or based on both number of generated coins and tx fees. I can't figure out if number of generated
coins matter at all since all already confirmed blocks generated 0 coins and new ones which generated 1k coins are not yet
confirmed. If first 1k coins block becomes confirmed after 120 blocks total I'll update the status (11 blocks to go).
Is there some counter added to code that checks number of confirmed blocks and then based on the result enables or disables
generation of new coins regardless of how many coins were already generated?
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theres nothing here. message me if you want to put something here.
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creditcoin_CRD (OP)
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January 30, 2014, 12:16:12 AM |
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One thing with PMC that is definitely bugged is the way blocks that generated 0 coins 0 tx fees are shown in wallet. They
never confirm! The first such block I've mined still uses clock icon instead of checkmark even after 5,000+ confirms. It could
be it is up to icon itself but than again blocks that had tx fees are shown properly. Is there some counter added to code that
checks number of blocks and then based on the result enables or disables generation of new coins regardless of how many
coins were already generated?
i noticed that right away, but.... that didn't happen until this incident. they were all checked until block 16000 came |
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subSTRATA
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January 30, 2014, 12:19:06 AM |
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that didn't happen until this incident. they were all checked until block 16000 came
Not for me. 16,243 blocks now and first I mined that is still not confirmed has 5,111 confirmations so it is block 11,132I have edited previous post a bit so check it out on previous page. |
theres nothing here. message me if you want to put something here.
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busoni
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Owner of Poloniex
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January 30, 2014, 12:25:09 AM |
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Everything to do with PMC is frozen on Poloniex at the moment. I assume I cannot allow withdrawals because of the fork issue. Is this assumption correct?
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Poloniex.com - Fast crypto exchange with margin trading, advanced charts, and stop-limit orders
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creditcoin_CRD (OP)
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January 30, 2014, 12:26:50 AM |
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Everything to do with PMC is frozen on Poloniex at the moment. I assume I cannot allow withdrawals because of the fork issue. Is this assumption correct?
probably |
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subSTRATA
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January 30, 2014, 12:27:10 AM
Last edit: January 30, 2014, 12:42:38 AM by subSTRATA |
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Everything to do with PMC is frozen on Poloniex at the moment. I assume I cannot allow withdrawals because of the fork issue. Is this assumption correct?
Better rollback all trades unless you can determine which coins are generated before and after 1k coins blocks. All coins that existed before incident are fine, asuming hard-fork to fix the issue will start at point (block height) before incident occured. |
theres nothing here. message me if you want to put something here.
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creditcoin_CRD (OP)
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January 30, 2014, 12:31:28 AM |
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Everything to do with PMC is frozen on Poloniex at the moment. I assume I cannot allow withdrawals because of the fork issue. Is this assumption correct?
Better rollback all trades unless you can determine which coins are generated before and after 1k coins blocks. All coins that existed before incident are fine, asuming hard-fork to fix the issue will start at point (block height) before incident occured. I'm not so sure it would actually. I sure don't see a bug in the code, I just combed it again. edit: maybe i'm just blind  I compared with some other coins on github as well, odd. |
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Nullu
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January 30, 2014, 12:41:43 AM |
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Everything to do with PMC is frozen on Poloniex at the moment. I assume I cannot allow withdrawals because of the fork issue. Is this assumption correct?
Better rollback all trades unless you can determine which coins are generated before and after 1k coins blocks. All coins that existed before incident are fine, asuming hard-fork to fix the issue will start at point (block height) before incident occured. I'm not so sure it would actually. I sure don't see a bug in the code, I just combed it again. edit: maybe i'm just blind I compared with some other coins on github as well, odd. Not some sort of weird coin halving thing is it? |
BTC - 14kYyhhWZwSJFHAjNTtyhRVSu157nE92gF
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subSTRATA
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January 30, 2014, 12:42:47 AM |
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On the bug:
Blocks started generating 500 coins so the same pattern as seen once PMC was started is occuring. Next will be 250 coins.
Genesis block (000) = 0.00000001 coins
001 to 249 = 1k coins
250 to 499 = 500 coins
500 to 749 = 250 coins
Etc.
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theres nothing here. message me if you want to put something here.
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creditcoin_CRD (OP)
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January 30, 2014, 12:44:28 AM |
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On the bug:
Blocks started generating 500 coins so the same pattern as seen once PMC was started is occuring. Next will be 250 coins.
Genesis block (000) = 0.00000001 coins
001 to 249 = 1k coins
250 to 499 = 500 coins
500 to 749 = 250 coins
Etc.
Yeah, I do believe it will as well. and again....and again.... |
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