[PoS+PoW] eXocoin [EXO]-gen 2.0- dev. from scratch! Give-Away | Open Beta

[lyynx]

Well I am very happy to see the whitepaper has been released. With that behind us, I do have some questions now. Although I did skim the whitepaper, I can't say I thoroughly grasped or read everything, it's a bit distracting where I am right now, so the questions I am about to ask, please bear with me if they have been addressed in the paper and I somehow missed it.

POS + POW - I realize this is a hybrid, but honestly, what is the true purpose of the 50% mining? Is this only to pacify those that would want to mine? 6 months is going to go by really fast. I just don't see the sense at all if in the end, it is a POS currency. Other than getting into long conversations regarding distribution etc.. I do think the radical move NXT took regarding a pure 100% POS has proven to be a strength. My opinion is the amount of time should be increased (for sustainability) or the amount lowered, or both.

I'm sure we are all surprised (I am) by the initial stake invested thus far. 150+ BTC round 1 IPO. Keep in mind, total EXO is 1/10th the amount of NXT (which was launched with 21 BTC). So if rounds 2 and 3 have success anywhere near the first round, we are talking a serious amount of money and should really consider all aspects.

As the developers have mentioned, the whitepaper is a working paper, so now is the time for us to brain storm and guide them by consensus regarding the distribution and features. This is what they have requested. So I am not going to get into discussions of greed etc.. as I am an investor, therefore ROI and sustainability is paramount. Many aspects of NXT were already planned by BCNext, so there was not as much need of feedback from the community in the beginning, this has now changed and the community is encouraged to guide the project forward.

I think we are also in a great position since the developers are requesting our guidance right from the beginning prior to launch.

I do have a few other questions and I"m sure I skipped right over them in the white paper, so please forgive me for perhaps missing them if that is the case.

Blocktime - 10 minutes? Is there any particular reason why? How many transaction will fit into that block? Is there a specific reason you did not consider a 60 second block?

Lowest Denominator - What is the lowest representation of EXO .01, .001, xxxxxxxx etc.. In my opinion, and just my opinion, I believe 100 billion coins with .01 is best (and not to dilute, so let me expand). I understand this is so far off from the developers idea, but I do have my reasons. If this is a true Gen 2 Currency, then worldwide adoption is paramount, or a portion of the world. So, in order to be an effective medium of exchange, there needs to be enough of the currency to go around in whole numbers. Some individuals will have thousands of exo, some only tens. I think a huge amount of coins is not a problem if the purpose of the large amount is to accommodate true usability in everyday life.

This also assists in the IPO %'s and there will be less discussion regarding distribution.

Anticipated TPS (Transactions Per Second)?

I believe all discussions regarding distribution/ modifying IPO etc.. are not an issue if discussed in a public forum and perhaps adjusted via consensus if that is agreeable to most and the developers themselves. I am fine either way, but as I stated, the amount of funds already raised is a serious amount of money and by the time we are done. Hence, if the coin or it's features challenges, we should address them now and in the open for transparency.

[twistelaar]

I agree with the idea to vote on this - the devs should come up with a few options they are happy with and then let the investors decide.

+1 totally agree with this solution.

Obviously people who already invested will vote to diminish others potential shares to increase their own.  That is counter-intuitive to a fair distribution.

Everything sounds reasonable. My suggestion will be - quit everything except 1 stage investors. It will be honest - really they took a risk. But please do not talk any more about "fair distribution" and such shit. Can be good coin, with successful ipo (it is already an achievement), nothing more nothing less.   

Exactly the stupid behavior we should expect when deciding to retroactively change the investment terms. The majority will choose to make changes in their own self interest. Don't claim to be something different than everyone else (specifically Nxt was mentioned) then turn around and do the same thing. NEM has this same problem. Claimed to be egalitarian, but made no effort to actually be egalitarian and had to change the investment terms a million times on-the-fly. I don't understand why no-one can get this right. Seems like it's the part that gets the least thought beforehand, but argued about the most after the fact.

Now you have a party with a conflict of interest in doing whats best for the distribution (1st stage early bird investors), and you want them to choose/vote on making modifications to the distribution model? lmao.

Go whine somewhere else if u missed the first round investments.

[twistelaar]

I agree with the idea to vote on this - the devs should come up with a few options they are happy with and then let the investors decide.

+1 totally agree with this solution.

Obviously people who already invested will vote to diminish others potential shares to increase their own.  That is counter-intuitive to a fair distribution.

Everything sounds reasonable. My suggestion will be - quit everything except 1 stage investors. It will be honest - really they took a risk. But please do not talk any more about "fair distribution" and such shit. Can be good coin, with successful ipo (it is already an achievement), nothing more nothing less.   

Exactly the stupid behavior we should expect when deciding to retroactively change the investment terms. The majority will choose to make changes in their own self interest. Don't claim to be something different than everyone else (specifically Nxt was mentioned) then turn around and do the same thing. NEM has this same problem. Claimed to be egalitarian, but made no effort to actually be egalitarian and had to change the investment terms a million times on-the-fly. I don't understand why no-one can get this right. Seems like it's the part that gets the least thought beforehand, but argued about the most after the fact.

Now you have a party with a conflict of interest in doing whats best for the distribution (1st stage early bird investors), and you want them to choose/vote on making modifications to the distribution model? lmao.

Go whine somewhere else if u missed the first round investments.

I did not miss the first round bud. I do however have a problem with my investment being jaded by the decisions of fools. Go whine somewhere else if you don't like constructive thought.

Im not wining. I suggest a fair distribution for 1 and 2 round investments. As I said before, the devs didnt expect this amount of investments. If they did, the distribution was constructed more fair for first and second round investments. But I'm glad there are enough people here agreeing with my thoughts.

Voting would be the best in this case, democratic voting is the most fair thing to do in this case.

[svojoe]

As a full-early investor I of course want the access to this coin at launch.    However, I hope that most of the early birds have more vision than just wanting to take all the coins.

If this coin is going to have a real chance,  the maximum number of people need to feel that they have a shot at this.   I now agree wtih Anon that 50% mining is likely the best balance.    

I think some kind of proportional system as has been discussed is a nice balance.  2nd round investors know they are buying into a much more secured investment.  So that 1.0 ratio early bird,  vs .8 or .75 ratio for the second round etc.  Makes sense?

[mthcl]

Voting would be the best in this case, democratic voting is the most fair thing to do in this case.

As usual, the question is: who will have the right to vote?

Also, as far as I remember, it is already planned that the early birds will receive more in the (unlikely) event that investing on the 2nd stage is more profitable. Anyhow, I'm against introducing drastic changes to the initial plan (just in case, I'm among the first investors, invested around 1/2 of the max amount).

[Damelon]

Two choices:

1. Either change the plans we agreed to when entering this IPO and thus give all the coins to me (just as "fair" as giving more to 1st stage investors who now want to change because the applications were different than they expected)

or

2. Use the original plan.

Changing plans because it went differently than we all expected is a sure fire way of having two month of bickering about the fact that you decided to change the rules before you even got started.

I expected things to be different, too, but hey ho, sometimes life isn't what you expect it to be.

(choose option 1)

[mthcl]

Two choices:

1. Either change the plans we agreed to when entering this IPO and thus give all the coins to me (just as "fair" as giving more to 1st stage investors who now want to change because the applications were different than they expected)

or

2. Use the original plan.

Changing plans because it went differently than we all expected is a sure fire way of having two month of bickering about the fact that you decided to change the rules before you even got started.

I expected things to be different, too, but hey ho, sometimes life isn't what you expect it to be.

(choose option 1)

I'm afraid Option 1 implies that the coins will have no value at all   

[Damelon]

Two choices:

1. Either change the plans we agreed to when entering this IPO and thus give all the coins to me (just as "fair" as giving more to 1st stage investors who now want to change because the applications were different than they expected)

or

2. Use the original plan.

Changing plans because it went differently than we all expected is a sure fire way of having two month of bickering about the fact that you decided to change the rules before you even got started.

I expected things to be different, too, but hey ho, sometimes life isn't what you expect it to be.

(choose option 1)

I'm afraid Option 1 implies that the coins will have no value at all   

I know 

But still... to dream

[Djinou94]

I dont undestand how to be In the second stage ipo!

[Anon136]

I dont undestand how to be In the second stage ipo!

wait until he provides an address for it.

[Djinou94]

I dont undestand how to be In the second stage ipo!

wait until he provides an address for it.

Oh ok thanks man!

[Anon136]

I dont undestand how to be In the second stage ipo!

wait until he provides an address for it.

Oh ok thanks man!

most welcome

[keepwalking1234]

i think we can give the 1st round guys (who send to dev team btc address directly！)more percentage exo coin！

they are the people who really take some risk！

[S3MKi]

i think we can give the 1st round guys (who send to dev team btc address directly！)more percentage exo coin！

they are the people who really take some risk！

nope

[keepwalking1234]

i think we can give the 1st round guys (who send to dev team btc address directly！)more percentage exo coin！

they are the people who really take some risk！

nope

haha why?

[miramare]

i think we can give the 1st round guys (who send to dev team btc address directly！)more percentage exo coin！

they are the people who really take some risk！

You are kidding me .

[svojoe]

As a full-early investor I of course want the access to this coin at launch.    However, I hope that most of the early birds have more vision than just wanting to take all the coins.

If this coin is going to have a real chance,  the maximum number of people need to feel that they have a shot at this.   I now agree wtih Anon that 50% mining is likely the best balance.    

I think some kind of proportional system as has been discussed is a nice balance.  2nd round investors know they are buying into a much more secured investment.  So that 1.0 ratio early bird,  vs .8 or .75 ratio for the second round etc.  Makes sense?

1st round didn't really take a risk. Escrow was available. With that said, 2nd round and 3rd round won't take a risk either, so I guess there should be some advantage to taking the jump first, which does in a way help peoples resolve jumping in 2nd or 3rd. Even then, why not just have a longer ipo period instead? Why not give non-escrowed investors more percentage than escrowed instead of all this round-about business? Let them put in a higher cap (2btc?). They are the ones who really took a risk. Otherwise It's all somewhat nonsensical and arbitrary devices being used to justify giving larger slices to some and smaller to others. This is what I'm talking about with distribution not getting nearly the amount of thought pre-ipo as it ought to.

So, as the project becomes more "real" with whitepapers/working code, etc, more people will become interested. We can assume more people will invest in each successive investment period so their stake will be smaller. Cutting up the percentages is uneccessary and pointless. IF few invest in the third period, then just drop them into the second period with a slight dilution of those shares. There were better ways to do it, but you didnt think it through. Now the terms are the terms. Don't change anything, except if few invest in 3rd round, drop them into second round, adjust % accordingly and redistribute 3rd round percentage to mining.

I understand where you are coming from but I personally think its a lot more complicated.    And the escrow service does not level the playing field in anyway.  This is why.  

1) I consider the escrow a 'safer' bet.  But there is still risk always
2) Regardless of if you escrowed or directly sent, you choose to take BTC out of something else.  For example, I would have invested in MINT instead with that BTC,  MINT is up 2X what it was when I sent to EXO.  Of course you could have lost value but that is not the point.  The point is vital-funds are currently in stasis and no longer in Play.  There is a tremendous cost to this.   That IS the risk as I see it.
3) The massive amount of initial funding could entirely enable a much stronger coin to be produced.  If I was the dev on a project like this I would consider changing my life immediately and growing the team in the face of such demand.   If everyone played it safe and held back and just waited this coin might never come into existence.  This is the same for many new coins.
4) Essentially from here out its a different game,  the moment a white paper was produced I view the risk as essentially halving.  So in this 'new' climate its easy to forgot what it looked like just last night.  

[Raist]

All I have read in this thread leads me to the conclusion: any change in conditions will be bad. Still none knows will the altcrypto's market be here for even several months (so any investor, even miners carry some risk, even email owners are possibly loosing their time and energy for nothing). Also I'm very sad to see so many doublethinking especially these days. Oh yeah we decided, we had a deal.... but wait.... we can earn more...verba volant... let us have democratic procedure to cancel democratic agreement...  I'm sick of that.

[svojoe]

All I have read in this thread leads me to the conclusion: any change in conditions will be bad. Still none knows will the altcrypto's market be here for even several months (so any investor, even miners carry some risk, even email owners are possibly loosing their time and energy for nothing). Also I'm very sad to see so many doublethinking especially these days. Oh yeah we decided, we had a deal.... but wait.... we can earn more...verba volant... let us have democratic procedure to cancel democratic agreement...  I'm sick of that.

How much BTC did you take out of other coins to support this endeavor before last night?   Regardless of motivation.

[notsoshifty]

i think we can give the 1st round guys (who send to dev team btc address directly！)more percentage exo coin！

they are the people who really take some risk！

As it happens, I used escrow, but I was walking along a tightrope above shark-infested waters at the time, and that was definitely a risky endeavour. Should I get more EXO as a result?