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Author Topic: [staff] xandry: may I ask an explanation? Response received!  (Read 2663 times)
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May 29, 2018, 09:23:55 AM
 #21

My post was triggered by this comment by him.

Quote
At first I tried to apply it to "service" threads (about bans, ranks, forum rules, etc.), but sometimes I haven't got enough time to watch if something useful in these topics appeared

It may have been taken out of context, so as Hilarious said, perhaps we should wait for clarification.

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May 29, 2018, 11:31:04 AM
Last edit: May 29, 2018, 11:57:44 AM by Alex_Sr
 #22

The user Alex_Sr clearly indicating that the merits were awarded to help the staff (xandry) on moderating the Russian section.
My guess is they are reporting the posts and if the report comes out good then they are getting one merit for each report.

If you follow your logic - there should be 3924 merit points. In reality I see 80 merit from xandry.
Don't you think you're wrong somewhere again?

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mdayonliner (OP)
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May 29, 2018, 02:28:07 PM
 #23

If you follow your logic - there should be 3924 merit points. In reality I see 80 merit from xandry.
@Alex_Sr I or I guess we have nothing to do with you. The logic we are only assuming, we are not saying it's correct. We actually do not know what is going on.

You don't even know what he's been giving it out for yet and if in fact he has been doing it as all you're going on is the post of one person, but how would this be any different than people getting merit for their posts/threads in Meta or Reputation for helping out and reporting/busting spambots, farmers and merit traders etc? I don't think people should be getting merit for every report or something, but I don't see a problem with those who help out by making posts that help moderation etc.
- I already sent xandry a message last night before I crash the bed, seems like he still did not see it (may be) yet.



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May 29, 2018, 03:11:21 PM
Merited by DdmrDdmr (1)
 #24

Yeah, I would like hear off Xandry if possible as I don't want anything to be lost in translation as well as have any bias. Although, I do appreciate the effort of translating the post, and linking that thread.


I don't think people should be getting merit for every report or something, but I don't see a problem with those who help out by making posts that help moderation etc.
Like I said I've got mixed feelings about it, although merit wasn't introduced for the purpose of offering a reward for reports, and as we've all mentioned before how it's easily abused. I've not got a problem with rewarding people who make the effort to report at it's very definition. It's the possibilities of users making alternate accounts, and posting nonsense just to report it which not only is abuse, but leads to more spam, and workload for the legitimate reporters as well as staff members.

I'm not accusing anyone of doing this so far, and as far as I can tell it's had a positive impact of a few members judging by the amount that they've reported, and I'm sure the possibility of receiving merit as contributed a large amount to that. Now that's public though there by me a few opportunistic individuals that abuse it.

I'm going to reiterate my point that Xandry should not be punished or removed as a merit source as a result of this, but should probably consider stopping it or at the very least keep a eye out for any abuse.

As you've mentioned yourself reporting is a pretty thankless job, and can sometimes be extremely tedious, and time consuming. But, I don't think I agree that merit is the way to go about it. Plus, it's not too different to the topics that certain members have posted in the Meta section, and I think I've noticed a few members doing it in hopes of earning merit rather than just simply reporting the post.

I don't think adding some sort of criteria would be of benefit either such as x amount of reports gets you 1 merit as fundamentally that's not what the merit system was implemented for. Merit was introduced to encourage users to post high quality content by rewarding them with merit, and putting certain restrictions on users who haven't hit certain thresholds. This is mainly why a merit source dishing out merits for reports doesn't quite sit right. A merit source is appointed because of their capabilities to pick out good quality posts. Offering merit points for reports isn't encouraging quality content makers, but those who report. Yeah, I know it more reports is a good thing, and the people who regularly report should probably be noticed, and rewarding, but the merit system isn't really for that. I've received a few messages off moderators, and an admin in the past thanking me for reporting, and I'm sure that's enough of encourage for most users.

Anyway, I'll stop banging on about this. I don't think it's a major issue until the potential abuse kicks in, but then again I think Xandry is intelligent enough to determine what's abuse, and what isn't so it's probably a non issue.

If you follow your logic - there should be 3924 merit points. In reality I see 80 merit from xandry.
Don't you think you're wrong somewhere again?
It's probably not a problem currently. Although, I would be worried that the account farmers would of noticed this, and start reporting in a way to rank up. 80 merits is probably worth a lot to them. I'm guessing this is your report stats, nice one!

The only saving grace I think we have is this is in a local board, and will limit the amount of abuse.
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May 31, 2018, 04:35:04 PM
 #25

@Welsh yes, he is the one who will have better explanation.

Did anyone PMed xandry. Seems like he still has not seen my message. I am not sure If I should PM him again or not?

Be happy be at peace. Looking forward to BTC at $1M
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May 31, 2018, 09:04:29 PM
 #26

Why are people attacking the merit system left, right and center? It shows that majority are not concerned about the quality of the forum but just quantity.


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May 31, 2018, 09:11:35 PM
 #27

Why are people attacking the merit system left, right and center? It shows that majority are not concerned about the quality of the forum but just quantity.

Because they are too lazy to make decent posts, and they think that the members who spent years building Bitcoin Talk owe them a living.

Offgrid campers allow you to enjoy life and preserve your health and wealth.
Save old Cars - my project to save old cars from scrapage schemes, and to reduce the sale of new cars.
My new Bitcoin transfer address is - bc1q9gtz8e40en6glgxwk4eujuau2fk5wxrprs6fys
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June 04, 2018, 03:57:10 AM
 #28

Why are people attacking the merit system left, right and center? It shows that majority are not concerned about the quality of the forum but just quantity.

Because the majority will not be able to get merits because of bad post quality.

You can see the same behavior everywhere. For instance, when students do not get good marks in exams, they will start blaming the subject or the teacher. In reality, it is those students who are not making good effort. Same applies here.
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June 04, 2018, 09:09:04 AM
 #29

merits plays a big role now in the system. but others are still shit posters. also the aspect that other users which are a good quality posers still no merits given upon them.
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June 04, 2018, 10:59:23 AM
 #30

I think the greatest role of this system is to allow serious people to grow. In the long run, it encourages people to do more useful things, make suggestions, etc. The main thing is discovery. For the management forum, it is based on the formulation and implementation of rules, so that people consciously abide by. This will keep the forum alive.
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June 04, 2018, 06:01:15 PM
 #31

Why are people attacking the merit system left, right and center? It shows that majority are not concerned about the quality of the forum but just quantity.

Because they are too lazy to make decent posts, and they think that the members who spent years building Bitcoin Talk owe them a living.
Left, right, front, back, bottom, above. Once they go inside then they can attack from the center  Grin

Sir (Tongue) Jet Cash left me nothing to add to answer you.

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June 09, 2018, 04:35:26 PM
 #32

I agree with you. Still waters run deep. Dirty game  Wink
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June 09, 2018, 06:22:46 PM
 #33

Infographics:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3406681.msg39296302#msg39296302

Our question was designed to elicit a response.  Wink
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June 09, 2018, 08:07:49 PM
 #34

Moderator himself decide who to give merit , if he so decide this his right.
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June 11, 2018, 08:55:01 AM
 #35

If fellow members of the forum are helping xandry to moderate the forum then this members are technically helping the moderator clean up the spam and shitpost of the forum, so I do think giving them merits for their help on cleaning up trash posts still is counted on being given merits. I know it may look like I am stretching their definition but if xandry is giving it to people who are helping him then I don't see anything wrong with it, even if their posts aren't of high quality they are still contributing to the forum elsewhere.
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June 18, 2018, 01:53:49 PM
 #36

Xandry must have a reason why he reward merit per report as long as it is put in good use rather than abusing it. One thing, xandry may PM theymos if he can award merit by helping moderating the forum, as far as I know they have their own reasons why they do it. I respect mdayonliner but we can't judge people if we don't know the story behind it.

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June 20, 2018, 11:44:03 AM
Last edit: June 20, 2018, 12:04:02 PM by mdayonliner
 #37

Xandry must have a reason why he reward merit per report as long as it is put in good use rather than abusing it. One thing, xandry may PM theymos if he can award merit by helping moderating the forum, as far as I know they have their own reasons why they do it. I respect mdayonliner but we can't judge people if we don't know the story behind it.
With all due respect to Xandry, I would also like to know the reasons if it's explainable. I believe the community needs to see transparency.

I am not sure why xandry is so quit here? I/we can expect at-least a response out of courtesy, can't we? This is disrespectful attitude from xandry, sorry to say.

Anyway here is something I would like to bring in attention. An unhappy member PMed me with his/her complain against the activities of xandry. The original message was edited back and forth with the PM sender to keep his/her identity hidden. Hope xandry notice all these posts and give us some feedback.

PS: If any mod (except xandry and any other Russian mods) wants to see the original conversation then I have the permission from the PM sender to expose it to their (mods) PM only.

Quote from: hiddenUser - Doesn't Want To Get Exposed
Hello!
I saw your thread and I have to say thank you ! Because we have very bad situation on our Russian forum. By the way sorry for my English this is not my native language.
As you know we have a lot of people that got merit just for helping moderator
Look to these guys
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=1951496
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=1480135
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=1762404
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=1479555
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2101883
These guys 3 of them got 10 merits and will be member only for reporting! They didn't wrote any post or something.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=2043593
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=1901621
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=2101883
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;u=1480135
They have 10 merits only for repost
~sniped~sniped~1
I saw statistic on some thread and it is :
230 мepитoв зa дeлитeд 230/290 = 80%
35 мepитoв - зa пocты c нaпpaвлeниeм (в Paзнoe и тп) = 13%
3 мepитa - зa нoды = 1.1%
2 мepитa - дoвepитeльный тpeйдинг = 0.7%
3 мepитa - зa нoвыe тeмы =1.1%
1 мepит зa Битcлep =0.4%
4 мepит - yшлo в aнгл. =1.4%
4 мepит - тeмa o клoнax = 1.4%

Or russian local we have 93% merits for report and offtop and just 1,1%(!!!!) for new threads!!!
93% merits 270 merits from  290 gave moders for report!!! This is insane.

I have the same situation. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=xxx.msgxxx#msgxxx1
~sniped~sniped~1
Because I don't think that this is right when people became Member or even Full member for report. Yes they help moderator but not forum. Soon no one will create any thread or useful posts. I even saw like for example on xxx1 pages on some thread people wrote "offtop" or something. No one want to create something, just reporting.
Sorry for my English anyway and I hope I didn't bothering you.
1Hidden to keep privacy of the PM sender.

PS again: I have changed to topic title Merit for helping on moderating the forum (?!) to Merit for helping on moderating the forum (?!) Highlighting staff: xandry to get attention from xandry. Let's hope it works.


A little update:

Be happy be at peace. Looking forward to BTC at $1M
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June 20, 2018, 02:45:31 PM
Last edit: June 21, 2018, 02:10:44 PM by esmanthra
 #38

I have changed to topic title [...] to get attention from xandry. Let's hope it works

In fact I can't understand why do you expect to see any reaction by changing thread titles, bumping and so on, since I doubt that xandry even knows about this thread's existence.
I doubt that he spents any time browsing Meta to see it.
I doubt that he reads Russian topics where people discussed it to be informed.
I even doubt that he saw your private message (since he has got so many of them that they lie in his box for months accumulating - for example, I sent him some message in february, but recieved his reply only a few days ago).

As he wrote earlier he's too busy even to read the "service" threads. So I assume you'd better be patient if you really want him to response.
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June 20, 2018, 03:18:01 PM
 #39

You think I am lacking common sense here?

In fact I can't understand why do you expect to see any reaction by changing thread titles, bumping and so on, since I doubt that xandry even knows about this thread's existence.
This is the exact reason I am doing all these, to get his attention.

I doubt that he spents any time browsing Meta to see it.
- Do not need to know if he does or does not. All I care his response either seeing it in meta or anyone inform him or he search using his username to see his mentions.

I doubt that he reads Russian topics where people discussed it to be informed.
- Again I do not care, however I do believe him to spend some time on seeing what community is doing here and there. He is a staff for a reason especially when he has a job to look after his local board.
 

I even doubt that he saw your private message (since he has got so many of them that they lie in his box for months accumulating - for example, I send him some message in february, but recieved his reply only a few days ago).
Again all these efforts to get his attention. I understand he is a busy person and being a staff for a forum like this is not easy job to handle.

As he wrote earlier he's too busy even to read the "service" threads. So I assume you'd better be patient if you really want him to response.
Don't you see my patience yet? Or you are missing something here. May 29, 2018 to till now I am waiting and I will wait until I hear back from you.

Be happy be at peace. Looking forward to BTC at $1M
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June 20, 2018, 03:45:11 PM
 #40

All I care his response

You're talking about disrespect above. That is what I'm trying to say: there's no disrespect here. Most likely he just doesn't have an opportunity to be informed.

Quote
I do believe him to spend some time on seeing what community is doing here and there

He doesn't read all the threads. In fact our local moderators spend more time processing reports rather then browsing.
 
Quote
Don't you see my patience yet?

I just wanted to say that expectation could be very long and it's unlikely to be reduced by bumping. All the rest is up to you.
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