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Author Topic: [Updated].UserLog request,same as ModLog but for user activity+more ideas.  (Read 680 times)
iasenko
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May 31, 2018, 07:49:58 AM
Last edit: June 28, 2018, 09:18:59 PM by iasenko
Merited by hilariousandco (5), ibminer (5), eddie13 (3), LoyceV (1), DdmrDdmr (1)
 #1

    After the new 24 hours rule for deleting posts some of my suggestions are now outdated but the others are still applicable and useful from my point of view. I have updated the list with the required changes. Please let me know what you think.

In the fight with the bots we need more data and some tools too Smiley
The bumping bots are really annoying. I was trying to report something from the Patrol page but the post was already deleted, and the user has 0 posts to report, so I have to write a PM to the Mods of fill lists with proof. This happens almost all the time in the Patrol page.  Outdated now.
Here are some suggestions I have, hope you guys will support me or at least discuss the matter to find appropriate solution.

    • As I said in the Subject - UserLog- where all deleted posts are listed with a timestamp / can be access-controlled same as the Report History/ fixed

    • Report to Mod button directly from the Profile page- When they have 0 posts you cannot report them, you have to write a list with abusers or send a PM to the mods. Outdated now.

    • Report to Mod button from the Profile post history - sometimes people have more than 1 post to report in the history.  NEW
    • Report to Mod button in the search results of the search engine
    This is important for me while reporting homographs and posts in other languages in the English sections.  Updated
    • If the UserLog is too much work to do, then maybe a data dump with all deleted posts within 5 min after posting Outdated now.
    • Patrol page option to be toggled automatically ON when users reach Member rank. More people should be involved in reporting, we are not enough to fight all the bots alone.
    • Maybe add chaptcha when deleting posts Outdated now.
    [/list]


    Outdated after the fix.
    Edited : the first, the third and  the last point can be restricted up to the Jr.Members only because the problem lies there.

    If you have no idea what BOT ACTIVITY is, see below...

    Here is an example of what BOT ACTIVITY is >

    Go to this ANN page https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4329385.80
    Open the last comment and refresh every 3 second...
    Just watch the activity...

    The solution is here :
    I think how I'd prefer to handle it is to prevent deleting posts within 24 hours of posting them, in the problematic sections only. Which sections are problematic?

    OK, the 24-hour limit is now in place in the sections that people mentioned.
    [/list]

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    May 31, 2018, 08:19:07 AM
     #2

    Keep a list of them or post them in Meta. I've been monitoring which threads this is happening in and locking the threads.

    Maybe add chaptcha when deleting posts

    This might be a good idea.


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    May 31, 2018, 08:30:30 AM
     #3

    Keep a list of them or post them in Meta. I've been monitoring which threads this is happening in and locking the threads.

    Yes, I have a list but i'm also trying to put a proof for each account, so print screens, editing, uploading. It takes time just to post the proof. If we have a UserLog then I can refer to it as a proof, so both Me and you can be more efficient and not wasting time on bots.
    Seems like it take more time to report a bot profile then to make one, well not for LoyceV, of course Wink
    I should make a script too when I get more free time to concentrate on it.

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    May 31, 2018, 09:10:34 AM
    Last edit: May 31, 2018, 09:22:15 AM by LoyceV
     #4

    Keep a list of them or post them in Meta. I've been monitoring which threads this is happening in and locking the threads.
    As much as I like that, there's still the possibility competitors will use this to get rid of competition.
    You've seen my thread [Mods: NUKE 30 act] Commercial Spambots post and delete 1000s of posts per day, only 1 out of 5 reported threads has been locked (I'm not sure if that was done by Mods or by the thread owner).

    Seems like it take more time to report a bot profile then to make one, well not for LoyceV, of course Wink
    I should make a script too when I get more free time to concentrate on it.
    I already have such a script Tongue
    All I need as input is the thread URL with active bumping bots, linking directly to the last page, and the number of legit unique posters on the last page. I'll run my script for an hour, and report back. Feel free to post some links. Feel free to PM me a list of URLs.
    I don't bother taking screenshots, an Admin can check deleted posts if there is any doubt.

    @hilariousandco: if you're willing to go after them, I'll gladly improve my script to count how many times a certain account deletes a post. I was even thinking of automating it to search unread posts: in 6 seconds, 12 threads got bumped. Many of those must be bump bots, so my plan is to make a script that takes the last x threads, then checks the last page of each, and reports bump bots when found. But I'll only go through the hassle if someone is willing to nuke a very long list.

    Update: bump bots are changing their pattern too, see here for instance: many new accounts, created on the same day, post a random oneliner and don't delete it. Or maybe much later. The whole Altcoin section feels infested.

    And there is of course the join airdrop spam which is a great loophole for bumping a thread.

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    May 31, 2018, 09:41:31 AM
     #5

    And there is of course the join airdrop spam which is a great loophole for bumping a thread.

    Actually mprep's sticky banning low effort task deals with that however I don't think that is actually enforced since it would mean 99% of the tasks would be removed since they all encourage similar low effort shitposting

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    May 31, 2018, 10:02:10 AM
     #6

    Actually mprep's sticky banning low effort task deals with that however I don't think that is actually enforced since it would mean 99% of the tasks would be removed since they all encourage similar low effort shitposting
    Thanks, I hadn't seen that update yet. It would be great if that can be enforced, to claim back the Altcoin board from the spammers.

    I've suggested a "reset" before: close all threads, and strictly enforce the rules from then onward, including instant (temporary) bans for anybody who spams. That way, most people will get the hint that spam days are over.

    Good idea, but i captcha should be enabled when user reach maximum posts per day (maybe around between 20-50) or delete per day (maybe around between 5-10).
    That won't work, as bump bots use hundreds or even thousands of different accounts. A normal user won't delete many posts, and reCAPTCHA requires only one click if you use it only a few times per day from a clean IP.

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    May 31, 2018, 12:46:42 PM
    Merited by stompix (1)
     #7

    Here is an example of what BOT ACTIVITY is >

    Go to this ANN page https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4329385.80
    Open the last comment and refresh every 3 second...
    Just watch the activity...

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    May 31, 2018, 12:59:17 PM
     #8

    The bot activity there is insane:

    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2103423
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123469
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2103409
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2103412
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123325
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123329
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123335
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123345
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123419
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123452
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2154951
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2098108
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2145765
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2145768
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2145750
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2145571
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2145666
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2102089
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2123301

    Those guys posted and deleted their message in a matter of 3-4 minutes, I barely had time to open their profile in a new link hit refresh, another one was waiting..
    There is no way to report them in time and catch them all with the current report method.

    Bring in some captcha or ban accounts lower than junior to delete their posts.

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    May 31, 2018, 01:03:25 PM
     #9

    They are doing the same thing in those threads:

    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4330327.60
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3616790.680

    Always from brand new accounts and always at the top of the Announcements (Altcoins) board...

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    May 31, 2018, 01:12:22 PM
    Last edit: May 31, 2018, 01:23:54 PM by iasenko
     #10

    Here is the video I made >
    image loading...
    https://i.imgur.com/lpsZpVq.gif
    / I though that I can embed gifs here but../

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    May 31, 2018, 01:37:05 PM
     #11

    _____________thread ________________________        Views / Replies = activity rate
    1) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3564382.0 rate 84666 /284  = ~298
    2) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3059631.0 rate 77984 / 284 = ~274
    3) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3291145.0 rate 33105 / 94 = ~352
    4) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2360707.0 rate 31336 / 105 = ~298

    I have compiled a list of thread for you. In these topics use a bot to increase views(or used)
    why do I think so?
    because there can not be so few messages and so many views

    As you can see, the activity rate in all topics almost coincides. Or is this a coincidence? I do not think so

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    May 31, 2018, 03:01:45 PM
    Last edit: May 31, 2018, 07:55:50 PM by LoyceMobile
     #12

    They use exactly 30 different newbie accounts per thread. I'll process the threads when I have time later tonight.

    Update: all unlocked threads mentioned here have been reported by me already.

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    May 31, 2018, 03:04:22 PM
     #13

    Maybe add chaptcha when deleting posts

    This might be a good idea.

    The forum should take a look at Google's new reCaptcha v3 https://developers.google.com/recaptcha/docs/v3

    There isn't much information I could find on in it but it looks like it is designed for this sort of job. You define certain actions and then give them a score of 0-10 for good or bad then it uses the total score to define if something is a bot. So I think if you define posting and then deleting immediately as bad action and it should take care of bump bots.

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    May 31, 2018, 03:42:03 PM
     #14

    As I understand, these bump bots are not spamming randomly but they (the farmer of them) are paid to have a few topics on the top of the thread, to gain more visibility...
    What happens if we just ban all the newbie users who post in that topic and after deletes that post? If there's no post (0 post count) than there's nothing that the newbie can lose, so I have no problem with banning them.
    This will make the farmers to create new account for every bump post, which will not worth the effort, I guess. And I'm not sure, but I guess they are smart enough not to use the same IP to create those new accounts, so I don't have any idea yet how to restrict the creation of the new bumping accounts...
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    May 31, 2018, 04:21:11 PM
     #15

    I think how I'd prefer to handle it is to prevent deleting posts within 24 hours of posting them, in the problematic sections only. Which sections are problematic?

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    May 31, 2018, 04:35:26 PM
    Last edit: May 31, 2018, 06:35:28 PM by LoyceV
     #16

    I think how I'd prefer to handle it is to prevent deleting posts within 24 hours of posting them
    I kinda expect them to just leave their spam much longer, but that can happen with all possible solutions for this problem.

    Quote
    Which sections are problematic?
    I've confirmed bump bots in:
    -Bitcoin Forum > Alternate cryptocurrencies > Announcements (Altcoins)
    -Bitcoin Forum > Alternate cryptocurrencies > Announcements (Altcoins) > Tokens (Altcoins)
    -Bitcoin Forum > Alternate cryptocurrencies > Marketplace (Altcoins)

    I wouldn't be surprised if there are more.

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    May 31, 2018, 06:45:27 PM
     #17


    Yes, I can also confirm for those 3 plus I saw one or two in the bounty section some time ago, but I have to focus on that section for a while to be sure and have a proof.

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    May 31, 2018, 11:50:22 PM
     #18

    I think how I'd prefer to handle it is to prevent deleting posts within 24 hours of posting them, in the problematic sections only. Which sections are problematic?

    Goods + child boards, and Services.

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    June 01, 2018, 10:16:57 AM
     #19

    I think how I'd prefer to handle it is to prevent deleting posts within 24 hours of posting them
    I kinda expect them to just leave their spam much longer, but that can happen with all possible solutions for this problem.
    would applying the same time limits of posting to deletion deter or lessen this behavior?
    make post deletion part of time-constraint activity, but it will be ineffective if the spammer has high rank Undecided

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    June 01, 2018, 11:41:04 AM
     #20

    Which sections are problematic?

    As LoyceV and malevolent said probably all sections where exposure means money, and if some of those hadn't been affected yet it doesn't mean they will never be.

    I kinda expect them to just leave their spam much longer, but that can happen with all possible solutions for this problem.


    I think a 24 hour limit in the altcoin section will be enough but it won't matter in other sections.
    It all comes to how much bumping you need for your topic to stay on the first page, in Tokens,  the difference is 14 minutes, Announcements (Altcoins)  is just 6 minutes,  in Marketplace (Altcoins) around 2 hours and a half and in most of the others stays around 2hours (at this time, when I'm posting).

    So bumping might get unnoticed in some topics but it is going to be detectable in altcoin, they would have to flood the topic with more than 200 replies and leave them there, far too obvious...

    Actually mprep's sticky banning low effort task deals with that however I don't think that is actually enforced since it would mean 99% of the tasks would be removed since they all encourage similar low effort shitposting

    Hmm,

    Quote
    Incentivizing posting within one or several threads via low effort tasks (e.g. signups or proof of participation for liking, following, subscribing, retweeting, tweeting a single tweet, joining a channel or group, etc.) is not allowed as it falls under the "no altcoin giveaways" rule

    So, posts like this one:
    #KRT Airdrop
    Telegram username:@laurenfryyws
    Twitter username:@monique60243285

    are against the new rules?
    I want to make sure before I get banned for flood reporting  Grin Grin Grin





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