It's Time For Theymos To Kill The Alt Section

[Akka]

It pretty funny that the heavy traffic is stuffed into one subforum and the management refuses to create sub forums or a system of organizing the information. Bitcointalk.org OWES the community to ban altcoin discussion here and let someone else take over and do it right. As it was stated before in this thread, the resources and interest are not here to support altcoins the way they need to be supported.

I'm sure the alt-coin community will re-organise itself somewhere else eventually, but I agree it probably would be better being all or nothing. If we can have subforums for mining and a marketplace then I don't see the harm in having a giveaway section too, but doesn’t look like the powers that be will change their mind on this regardless.

you have 84 activity and almost 5000 posts. thats fucking ridiculous.

Nearly all of them Pointless.

That's another reason why something needs to be done about those paid sigs, especially if they pay per postcount. It encourages senseless spamming and reduces the quality of this forum.

[hilariousandco]

It pretty funny that the heavy traffic is stuffed into one subforum and the management refuses to create sub forums or a system of organizing the information. Bitcointalk.org OWES the community to ban altcoin discussion here and let someone else take over and do it right. As it was stated before in this thread, the resources and interest are not here to support altcoins the way they need to be supported.

I'm sure the alt-coin community will re-organise itself somewhere else eventually, but I agree it probably would be better being all or nothing. If we can have subforums for mining and a marketplace then I don't see the harm in having a giveaway section too, but doesn’t look like the powers that be will change their mind on this regardless.

you have 84 activity and almost 5000 posts. thats fucking ridiculous.

Nearly all of them Pointless.

That's another reason why something needs to be done about those paid sigs, especially if they pay per postcount. It encourages senseless spamming and reduces the quality of this forum.

Can you please explain how nearly all of my posts are pointless? The only pointless spam here is you posting about something that is off-topic and baseless.

[Anotheranonlol]

nonsense like this

[66] ★★★█ ATTENTION!!!█★★★ 66 Coin!NO MORE GIVEAWAY!█SAFE THE MINERS!█  New

  eurgh, keep in quarantine please.  I wish it could be possible to permanently delete all junk like this. signal to noise ratio much too high.

[Akka]

I just clicked on his profile, saw that he has indeed over 5000 posts in this short time, clicked on last post, immediately saw this post: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=441694.msg4901283#msg4901283

and made my decision that this users contend is worthless.

Yes I'm judging quickly sometimes. 

[RodeoX]

Although 99.9% of alt coins are stupid or outright scams, I think they should have a place. Alt coins can be a hedge against any entity that thinks it could crush bitcoin. Any serious attempt to do so would just result in the ascendancy of another coin.
My problem is that it has become almost impossible to sort through the dozens of script-kitty announcements that junk up the forums. There has to be a way to do both.

Could we:

• Allow blocking of some areas? kinda  like an ignore list for forum sections.
• Keep posts in the alt section from showing in the recent posts list?
• Set up another related/linked domain for alts? altcointalk.org is available.
• Other?

[rnp]

Whats funny is I don't think the collective value of the scams in the altcoins add up to the scams run here in bitcoins.

In fact, I've only been burned when dealing with Bitcoins. Not with Litecoins or any altcoins.

Probably because the real criminals use bitcoins.

[tvbcof]

For all his faults, Theymos has won my respect for not being inclined toward censorship and the same can be said for most of the mods he employs.

Censors come across as small minded and insecure people because that is usually exactly what they are.

As for alts, people who feel threatened by alts, and more generally about competition, are pathetic.  Among they ways alts support Bitcoin, they provide a credible threat that the whole problem of distributed crypto-currencies would be made worse rather than better by a crackdown on Bitcoin.  Were their no alts, I find it very plausible that the regulatory environment would be significantly different than what we see today.

BTW, I hold exactly zero alt coins at this time and never have.  I expect that I will in the future however.

[oda.krell]

For all his faults, Theymos has won my respect for not being inclined toward censorship and the same can be said for most of the mods he employs.

Censors come across as small minded and insecure people because that is usually exactly what they are.

As for alts, people who feel threatened by alts, and more generally about competition, are pathetic.  Among they ways alts support Bitcoin, they provide a credible threat that the whole problem of distributed crypto-currencies would be made worse rather than better by a crackdown on Bitcoin.  Were their no alts, I find it very plausible that the regulatory environment would be significantly different than what we see today.

BTW, I hold exactly zero alt coins at this time and never have.  I expect that I will in the future however.

+1

Very close to my own sentiment. There are scam coins, sure, but feeling threatened by alts altogether is just wrong for serious btc supporters. It's a complex crypto ecosystem we're building here, with btc right in the center (for now... might be different at some point in the far future, though not that likely IMO), so kneejerk reactions to alts are ill advised.

[surfer43]

Although 99.9% of alt coins are stupid or outright scams, I think they should have a place. Alt coins can be a hedge against any entity that thinks it could crush bitcoin. Any serious attempt to do so would just result in the ascendancy of another coin.
My problem is that it has become almost impossible to sort through the dozens of script-kitty announcements that junk up the forums. There has to be a way to do both.

Could we:

• Allow blocking of some areas? kinda  like an ignore list for forum sections.
• Keep posts in the alt section from showing in the recent posts list?
• Set up another related/linked domain for alts? altcointalk.org is available.
• Other?

Well that is a large chunk.  That leaves what, 0 cryptocurrencies?

[Akka]

Although 99.9% of alt coins are stupid or outright scams, I think they should have a place. Alt coins can be a hedge against any entity that thinks it could crush bitcoin. Any serious attempt to do so would just result in the ascendancy of another coin.
My problem is that it has become almost impossible to sort through the dozens of script-kitty announcements that junk up the forums. There has to be a way to do both.

Could we:

• Allow blocking of some areas? kinda  like an ignore list for forum sections.
• Keep posts in the alt section from showing in the recent posts list?
• Set up another related/linked domain for alts? altcointalk.org is available.
• Other?

1 and 2 are already possible in your profile settings. There is a Ignore Board Option.

How can you not know this?

[RodeoX]

Although 99.9% of alt coins are stupid or outright scams, I think they should have a place. Alt coins can be a hedge against any entity that thinks it could crush bitcoin. Any serious attempt to do so would just result in the ascendancy of another coin.
My problem is that it has become almost impossible to sort through the dozens of script-kitty announcements that junk up the forums. There has to be a way to do both.

Could we:

• Allow blocking of some areas? kinda  like an ignore list for forum sections.
• Keep posts in the alt section from showing in the recent posts list?
• Set up another related/linked domain for alts? altcointalk.org is available.
• Other?

1 and 2 are already possible in your profile settings. There is a Ignore Board Option.

How can you not know this?

Really? I did not know this. 

Also, @surfer43. 99.9% IS way to high. I don't know what percent of alts are serious attempts to create a viable coin. I shouldn't have used numbers. 

[oda.krell]

Although 99.9% of alt coins are stupid or outright scams, I think they should have a place. Alt coins can be a hedge against any entity that thinks it could crush bitcoin. Any serious attempt to do so would just result in the ascendancy of another coin.
My problem is that it has become almost impossible to sort through the dozens of script-kitty announcements that junk up the forums. There has to be a way to do both.

Could we:

• Allow blocking of some areas? kinda  like an ignore list for forum sections.
• Keep posts in the alt section from showing in the recent posts list?
• Set up another related/linked domain for alts? altcointalk.org is available.
• Other?

1 and 2 are already possible in your profile settings. There is a Ignore Board Option.

How can you not know this?

Really? I did not know this. 

Also, @surfer43. 99.9% IS way to high. I don't know what percent of alts are serious attempts to create a viable coin. I shouldn't have used numbers. 

Way too high. Even dogecoin isn't a scam coin, and only 'stupid' insofar as it probably won't be alive in a year or two from now. But that's the beauty of our little experiment we have going here: the market will decide that, not forum censorship (except for the most vile cases of scams, of course, which should be removed)

[r3wt]

Although 99.9% of alt coins are stupid or outright scams, I think they should have a place. Alt coins can be a hedge against any entity that thinks it could crush bitcoin. Any serious attempt to do so would just result in the ascendancy of another coin.
My problem is that it has become almost impossible to sort through the dozens of script-kitty announcements that junk up the forums. There has to be a way to do both.

Could we:

• Allow blocking of some areas? kinda  like an ignore list for forum sections.
• Keep posts in the alt section from showing in the recent posts list?
• Set up another related/linked domain for alts? altcointalk.org is available.
• Other?

1 and 2 are already possible in your profile settings. There is a Ignore Board Option.

How can you not know this?

Really? I did not know this. 

Also, @surfer43. 99.9% IS way to high. I don't know what percent of alts are serious attempts to create a viable coin. I shouldn't have used numbers. 

Way too high. Even dogecoin isn't a scam coin, and only 'stupid' insofar as it probably won't be alive in a year or two from now. But that's the beauty of our little experiment we have going here: the market will decide that, not forum censorship (except for the most vile cases of scams, of course, which should be removed)

And thats begs the age old question, for what do you consider a coin being a scam? must it be blatantly premined, or would you consider mass marketing and exchange spamming of add requests as scandalous and meeting the criteria for a scam? to me it seems like dogecoin and many other coins that use marketing or other meaningless forms of hype and manipulation to determine their coins value, making it inherently a scam. Its an issue of perspective largely, so some might disagree but if you are using the oxford dictionary to describe a coin such as doge or quarkcoin, or even megacoin for all its advancement against 51% attacks, they are all fundamentally overhyped flashmine/premine fests and therefor must be considered scams. there can be picking and choosing what constitutes a scam when you are assigning labels, regardless of the popularity of said coins, and this alone provides solid support for the premise that the Alt section should be removed or the rules for posting greatly altered. I am personally of the opinion a clean break needs to be made to give alternate currencies a new home, just to increase the quality and prominence of bitcoin related posts and discussions.

[oda.krell]

Although 99.9% of alt coins are stupid or outright scams, I think they should have a place. Alt coins can be a hedge against any entity that thinks it could crush bitcoin. Any serious attempt to do so would just result in the ascendancy of another coin.
My problem is that it has become almost impossible to sort through the dozens of script-kitty announcements that junk up the forums. There has to be a way to do both.

Could we:

• Allow blocking of some areas? kinda  like an ignore list for forum sections.
• Keep posts in the alt section from showing in the recent posts list?
• Set up another related/linked domain for alts? altcointalk.org is available.
• Other?

1 and 2 are already possible in your profile settings. There is a Ignore Board Option.

How can you not know this?

Really? I did not know this.  

Also, @surfer43. 99.9% IS way to high. I don't know what percent of alts are serious attempts to create a viable coin. I shouldn't have used numbers.  

Way too high. Even dogecoin isn't a scam coin, and only 'stupid' insofar as it probably won't be alive in a year or two from now. But that's the beauty of our little experiment we have going here: the market will decide that, not forum censorship (except for the most vile cases of scams, of course, which should be removed)

And thats begs the age old question, for what do you consider a coin being a scam? must it be blatantly premined, or would you consider mass marketing and exchange spamming of add requests as scandalous and meeting the criteria for a scam? to me it seems like dogecoin and many other coins that use marketing or other meaningless forms of hype and manipulation to determine their coins value, making it inherently a scam. Its an issue of perspective largely, so some might disagree but if you are using the oxford dictionary to describe a coin such as doge or quarkcoin, or even megacoin for all its advancement against 51% attacks, they are all fundamentally overhyped flashmine/premine fests and therefor must be considered scams. there can be picking and choosing what constitutes a scam when you are assigning labels, regardless of the popularity of said coins, and this alone provides solid support for the premise that the Alt section should be removed or the rules for posting greatly altered. I am personally of the opinion a clean break needs to be made to give alternate currencies a new home, just to increase the quality and prominence of bitcoin related posts and discussions.

I don't think it needs to be all black and white. shades of grey, baby.

So, first, to qualify as a *scam* coin would require extraordinary proof, but if it is determined to be a scam (as in: hard evidence the creators plan to scam investors, like, say, launch an IPO, then run with the money), the scam should be labeled and removed, as if it were any other product.

Now, what is probably a more appropriate label for something like doge is *spam* coin. And there we will need, IMO, slightly more flexible criteria. Here's a rhetorical question: what is the 'hard', objective difference between a spam coin and a successful crypto?

Answer: there is no objective *inherent* difference. It's a matter of what the market determines through trading it.

So why not take that into account?  New coin creators can advertise their coin *once*, in one thread. Then watch and see. If the price and trade volume of the coin picks up speed, the heavy restrictions on posting about and promoting it will be lifted, gradually. If not, it stays contained to that one thread. And endless bumping of threads and an abundance of 'promotion' thread will never be okay, no matter how much your project is picking up speed. It's kind of common sense, isn't it?

[surfer43]

Although 99.9% of alt coins are stupid or outright scams, I think they should have a place. Alt coins can be a hedge against any entity that thinks it could crush bitcoin. Any serious attempt to do so would just result in the ascendancy of another coin.
My problem is that it has become almost impossible to sort through the dozens of script-kitty announcements that junk up the forums. There has to be a way to do both.

Could we:

• Allow blocking of some areas? kinda  like an ignore list for forum sections.
• Keep posts in the alt section from showing in the recent posts list?
• Set up another related/linked domain for alts? altcointalk.org is available.
• Other?

1 and 2 are already possible in your profile settings. There is a Ignore Board Option.

How can you not know this?

Really? I did not know this.  

Also, @surfer43. 99.9% IS way to high. I don't know what percent of alts are serious attempts to create a viable coin. I shouldn't have used numbers.  

Way too high. Even dogecoin isn't a scam coin, and only 'stupid' insofar as it probably won't be alive in a year or two from now. But that's the beauty of our little experiment we have going here: the market will decide that, not forum censorship (except for the most vile cases of scams, of course, which should be removed)

And thats begs the age old question, for what do you consider a coin being a scam? must it be blatantly premined, or would you consider mass marketing and exchange spamming of add requests as scandalous and meeting the criteria for a scam? to me it seems like dogecoin and many other coins that use marketing or other meaningless forms of hype and manipulation to determine their coins value, making it inherently a scam. Its an issue of perspective largely, so some might disagree but if you are using the oxford dictionary to describe a coin such as doge or quarkcoin, or even megacoin for all its advancement against 51% attacks, they are all fundamentally overhyped flashmine/premine fests and therefor must be considered scams. there can be picking and choosing what constitutes a scam when you are assigning labels, regardless of the popularity of said coins, and this alone provides solid support for the premise that the Alt section should be removed or the rules for posting greatly altered. I am personally of the opinion a clean break needs to be made to give alternate currencies a new home, just to increase the quality and prominence of bitcoin related posts and discussions.

I don't think it needs to be all black and white. shades of grey, baby.

So, first, to qualify as a *scam* coin would require extraordinary proof, but if it is determined to be a scam (as in: hard evidence the creators plan to scam investors, like, say, launch an IPO, then run with the money), the scam should be labeled and removed, as if it were any other product.

Now, what is probably a more appropriate label for something like doge is *spam* coin. And there we will need, IMO, slightly more flexible criteria. Here's a rhetorical question: what is the 'hard', objective difference between a spam coin and a successful crypto?

Answer: there is no objective *inherent* difference. It's a matter of what the market determines through trading it.

So why not take that into account?  New coin creators can advertise their coin *once*, in one thread. Then watch and see. If the price and trade volume of the coin picks up speed, the heavy restrictions on posting about and promoting it will be lifted, gradually. If not, it stays contained to that one thread. And endless bumping of threads and an abundance of 'promotion' thread will never be okay, no matter how much your project is picking up speed. It's kind of common sense, isn't it?

What the market has determined is subjective also.

[kokjo]

So, first, to qualify as a *scam* coin would require extraordinary proof, but if it is determined to be a scam

Nope, altcoins should not get the benefit of doubt. This is not a legal system, this is a privately owned internet forum.

[surfer43]

So, first, to qualify as a *scam* coin would require extraordinary proof, but if it is determined to be a scam

Nope, altcoins should not get the benefit of doubt. This is not a legal system, this is a privately owned internet forum.

spam/pump != Scam

[Onews1990]

I agree that the alt-section is meaningless and it's full of crap-coins. but still this forum is more about freedom generally like BTC and that we shouldn't tell people (don't do that or that or that). There aren't doing anything bad so let them play 

[BadBear]

It is sucking up a lot of moderation resources, which along with the newbie restrictions geing removed, is probably affecting the forum negatively as there is only so much to go around.

[artiface]

I agree that the alt-section is meaningless and it's full of crap-coins. but still this forum is more about freedom generally like BTC and that we shouldn't tell people (don't do that or that or that). There aren't doing anything bad so let them play 

Let them play on their own forums.  Again this is the BITCOIN talk forum.  Any alt-coin that wants to be taken seriously should have its own forum.