[ANN]ASICMiner Publicly Looking for Potential Customers/Partners for New Chips

[bitfair]

I don't understand how can you think that we will have 109PH deployed by AM by the end of June. Who will invest so much money?

I don't think the lack of interest in your group-buy accurately reflects the market conditions faced by AM.

I assume the chips are already paid for by large AM customers because:
(1) the delivery dates suggests that the chips are already ordered
(2) fabs are not known for giving generous credit lines
(3) I don't believe AM has ~$21.8 million in spare cash lying around (109PH@$0.20/GH wafer cost) to build stock.

So to answer the question of "who", suffice to say there appear to be large buyers out there.

My group buy has nothing to do with it. Since you haven't red the post that i pointed to i will ask here too. What's the expected $/GH for this numbers? Assuming 1$/GH at system level, that would mean that 50PH=50M$. With the current exchange rate and with the current market i simply don't think that will happen. A lot of people in the Hardware forum are screaming that mining isn't worth anymore, but yet you expect 109M$ pouring in a matter of 2 months. I don't see that happen.

My point is that it is largely irrelevant at this point from the point of view of AM: AM appears to have collected payments for the chips already, and so the buyers of the chips are the ones taking the risk.

Anyway, my calculations show that this hardware will produce a (significant) positive return, and where there is positive return I believe there will be buyers!

[RoadStress]

My point is that it is largely irrelevant at this point from the point of view of AM: AM appears to have collected payments for the chips already, and so the buyers of the chips are the ones taking the risk.

Anyway, my calculations show that this hardware will produce a (significant) positive return, and where there is positive return I believe there will be buyers!

Having chips but not mounted on boards and either deployed or sold means that 0 hashrate will go online. What are the buyers of the chips doing with the chips if nobody is buying them? Start deploying their massive farms?

[vortex1878]

My point is that it is largely irrelevant at this point from the point of view of AM: AM appears to have collected payments for the chips already, and so the buyers of the chips are the ones taking the risk.

Anyway, my calculations show that this hardware will produce a (significant) positive return, and where there is positive return I believe there will be buyers!

Having chips but not mounted on boards and either deployed or sold means that 0 hashrate will go online. What are the buyers of the chips doing with the chips if nobody is buying them? Start deploying their massive farms?

Your argumentation has become pathetic.

[RoadStress]

My point is that it is largely irrelevant at this point from the point of view of AM: AM appears to have collected payments for the chips already, and so the buyers of the chips are the ones taking the risk.

Anyway, my calculations show that this hardware will produce a (significant) positive return, and where there is positive return I believe there will be buyers!

Having chips but not mounted on boards and either deployed or sold means that 0 hashrate will go online. What are the buyers of the chips doing with the chips if nobody is buying them? Start deploying their massive farms?

Your argumentation has become pathetic.

I am still waiting for some kind of good and well-argumented replies not posts who bring nothing to the discussion. I see none until now.

[bitfair]

Having chips but not mounted on boards and either deployed or sold means that 0 hashrate will go online. What are the buyers of the chips doing with the chips if nobody is buying them? Start deploying their massive farms?

AFAICT, you are arguing that there is no demand for these chips from miners.

Yet, AM appears to have received the payment for them: this fact unambiguously proves that there is demand for these chips!

Can you tell me again how you concluded that there is no demand? Or, in case I misunderstood the point you were trying to make, please repeat it more clearly.

[RoadStress]

Having chips but not mounted on boards and either deployed or sold means that 0 hashrate will go online. What are the buyers of the chips doing with the chips if nobody is buying them? Start deploying their massive farms?

AFAICT, you are arguing that there is no demand for these chips from miners.

Yet, AM appears to have received the payment for them: this fact unambiguously proves that there is demand for these chips!

Can you tell me again how you concluded that there is no demand? Or, in case I misunderstood the point you were trying to make, please repeat it more clearly.

Never said there is no demand. There is demand for sure. I don't argue that. I was just asking at what price do you see those chips being sold to miners when they are assembled? Until now nobody answered that even if i seem to get replied a lot.

[bitfair]

Never said there is no demand. There is demand for sure. I don't argue that. I was just asking at what price do you see those chips being sold to miners when they are assembled? Until now nobody answered that even if i seem to get replied a lot.

In that case, I misunderstood you - my apologies.

A while back, FC said the chips would be priced between $0.49 and $0.99 per GH.

The price of a plug-in-ready miner is anyone's guess, depends who builds it.

[RoadStress]

Never said there is no demand. There is demand for sure. I don't argue that. I was just asking at what price do you see those chips being sold to miners when they are assembled? Until now nobody answered that even if i seem to get replied a lot.

In that case, I misunderstood you - my apologies.

A while back, FC said the chips would be priced between $0.49 and $0.99 per GH.

The price of a plug-in-ready miner is anyone's guess, depends who builds it.

If they sell chips for those prices then the end price will be higher than 1$/GH for sure and we are back to my posts/questions again. If you expect 109 PH deployed that translates to 109M$ worth of equipment sold to the miners. I just don't see that happen in such a short time.

[brontosaurus]

Never said there is no demand. There is demand for sure. I don't argue that. I was just asking at what price do you see those chips being sold to miners when they are assembled? Until now nobody answered that even if i seem to get replied a lot.

In that case, I misunderstood you - my apologies.

A while back, FC said the chips would be priced between $0.49 and $0.99 per GH.

The price of a plug-in-ready miner is anyone's guess, depends who builds it.

Assuming the chips are cost $0.5/GH, ie aout $5 each, then a 2TH box will come in at a cost-to-build price of around $1600, or $0.8/GH assuming it has some form of internal heatsinking/fan arrangement and they give you a PSU with it. That's to get someone to assemble the bits, the chips take away $1000 of the cost, so if they cost $3 to make (?) then AM could in theory get systems for $400 less, around $1200 for 'internal' us. A third part supplier w0uld want to make a margin of at least 25% on selling their box, so getting anything under $1/GH is pretty unlikely.

[bitfair]

Never said there is no demand. There is demand for sure. I don't argue that. I was just asking at what price do you see those chips being sold to miners when they are assembled? Until now nobody answered that even if i seem to get replied a lot.

In that case, I misunderstood you - my apologies.

A while back, FC said the chips would be priced between $0.49 and $0.99 per GH.

The price of a plug-in-ready miner is anyone's guess, depends who builds it.

Assuming the chips are cost $0.5/GH, ie aout $5 each, then a 2TH box will come in at a cost-to-build price of around $1600, or $0.8/GH assuming it has some form of internal heatsinking/fan arrangement and they give you a PSU with it. That's to get someone to assemble the bits, the chips take away $1000 of the cost, so if they cost $3 to make (?) then AM could in theory get systems for $400 less, around $1200 for 'internal' us. A third part supplier w0uld want to make a margin of at least 25% on selling their box, so getting anything under $1/GH is pretty unlikely.

25% margin is pretty high for such a competitive market. Using your number of a $0.8/GH total build cost for the assembler, different margins would produce different prices:
5%: $0.84/GH
10%: $0.88/GH
15%: $0.92/GH
20%: $0.96/GH
25%: $1.00/GH

So by adjusting your margin, you could easily get below $1.00/GH. And I imagine that the market is so competitive at the moment that margins should be on the low side.

Anyway, it's difficult to say what final prices would be, depends a lot on what kind of miners are built: immersion cooling blades, standalone boxes, rack mountable, air-cooling, liquid-cooling, etc. A lot of different possible design choices can be made, each with their specific costs.

[RoadStress]

Never said there is no demand. There is demand for sure. I don't argue that. I was just asking at what price do you see those chips being sold to miners when they are assembled? Until now nobody answered that even if i seem to get replied a lot.

In that case, I misunderstood you - my apologies.

A while back, FC said the chips would be priced between $0.49 and $0.99 per GH.

The price of a plug-in-ready miner is anyone's guess, depends who builds it.

Assuming the chips are cost $0.5/GH, ie aout $5 each, then a 2TH box will come in at a cost-to-build price of around $1600, or $0.8/GH assuming it has some form of internal heatsinking/fan arrangement and they give you a PSU with it. That's to get someone to assemble the bits, the chips take away $1000 of the cost, so if they cost $3 to make (?) then AM could in theory get systems for $400 less, around $1200 for 'internal' us. A third part supplier w0uld want to make a margin of at least 25% on selling their box, so getting anything under $1/GH is pretty unlikely.

25% margin is pretty high for such a competitive market. Using your number of a $0.8/GH total build cost for the assembler, different margins would produce different prices:
5%: $0.84/GH
10%: $0.88/GH
15%: $0.92/GH
20%: $0.96/GH
25%: $1.00/GH

So by adjusting your margin, you could easily get below $1.00/GH. And I imagine that the market is so competitive at the moment that margins should be on the low side.

Anyway, it's difficult to say what final prices would be, depends a lot on what kind of miners are built: immersion cooling blades, standalone boxes, rack mountable, air-cooling, liquid-cooling, etc. A lot of different possible design choices can be made, each with their specific costs.

Judging by the history the in stock miners were always overpriced while pre-orders had a lower price. If we add up shipping, customs and maybe PSU then the difference from 0.84$/GH to 1$/GH isn't so big as it looks when comparing 5% with 25%. Now(i know some people will be pissed)...if we look at my GB then we see that pre-orders for a company that already has launched products aren't flying off the shelf even at 0.83$/GH. Even if AM sells in stock miners for 1$/GH or less i still find hard to believe that there are people/miners/investors that are ready to spend ~100M$ for mining equipment in 2-3 months. In my view most of the money went down the hole of the fails and scams that ran for the last year. Now there aren't simply enough money, not unless the BTC price goes up a lot and very fast.

[bitfair]

Judging by the history the in stock miners were always overpriced while pre-orders had a lower price. If we add up shipping, customs and maybe PSU then the difference from 0.84$/GH to 1$/GH isn't so big as it looks when comparing 5% with 25%. Now(i know some people will be pissed)...if we look at my GB then we see that pre-orders for a company that already has launched products aren't flying off the shelf even at 0.83$/GH. Even if AM sells in stock miners for 1$/GH or less i still find hard to believe that there are people/miners/investors that are ready to spend ~100M$ for mining equipment in 2-3 months. In my view most of the money went down the hole of the fails and scams that ran for the last year. Now there aren't simply enough money, not unless the BTC price goes up a lot and very fast.

Sounds like you are judging market conditions by the interest in your pre-order group-buy.

I'm surprised your group-buy has any interest at all, since it sounds like a profoundly stupid idea to send $5 million to some guy on an internet forum in order to (maybe) receive an item in four months.

[Chris_Sabian]

Judging by the history the in stock miners were always overpriced while pre-orders had a lower price. If we add up shipping, customs and maybe PSU then the difference from 0.84$/GH to 1$/GH isn't so big as it looks when comparing 5% with 25%. Now(i know some people will be pissed)...if we look at my GB then we see that pre-orders for a company that already has launched products aren't flying off the shelf even at 0.83$/GH. Even if AM sells in stock miners for 1$/GH or less i still find hard to believe that there are people/miners/investors that are ready to spend ~100M$ for mining equipment in 2-3 months. In my view most of the money went down the hole of the fails and scams that ran for the last year. Now there aren't simply enough money, not unless the BTC price goes up a lot and very fast.

Sounds like you are judging market conditions by the interest in your pre-order group-buy.

I'm surprised your group-buy has any interest at all, since it sounds like a profoundly stupid idea to send $5 million to some guy on an internet forum in order to (maybe) receive an item in four months.

I think most people would pay more to have a miner today than have it for a cheaper price in a few months (maybe)

[RoadStress]

Judging by the history the in stock miners were always overpriced while pre-orders had a lower price. If we add up shipping, customs and maybe PSU then the difference from 0.84$/GH to 1$/GH isn't so big as it looks when comparing 5% with 25%. Now(i know some people will be pissed)...if we look at my GB then we see that pre-orders for a company that already has launched products aren't flying off the shelf even at 0.83$/GH. Even if AM sells in stock miners for 1$/GH or less i still find hard to believe that there are people/miners/investors that are ready to spend ~100M$ for mining equipment in 2-3 months. In my view most of the money went down the hole of the fails and scams that ran for the last year. Now there aren't simply enough money, not unless the BTC price goes up a lot and very fast.

Sounds like you are judging market conditions by the interest in your pre-order group-buy.

I'm surprised your group-buy has any interest at all, since it sounds like a profoundly stupid idea to send $5 million to some guy on an internet forum in order to (maybe) receive an item in four months.

My group buy has nothing to do with the amount of money are ready to invest into mining machines in just 2 months starting now.

Regarding the group buy, I am only collecting reservation fees from which 70% will go to Sean's Outpost, i will only keep 10%. The "$5 million" will go to the company who has proven itself until now if we get to 1000 units. They have a very good product launched, a very supportive and active support and they delivered before the announced shipping time so i see no problem there to pre-order from them. If you have a problem with them then feel free to vote with your wallet, but don't try to change the subject of our original topic. Do you honestly believe that there are $50M waiting to be invested in just 2 months in AM gen3 miners?

[bitfair]

Do you honestly believe that there are $50M waiting to be invested in just 2 months in AM gen3 miners?

Yes.

Although perhaps a little more than 2 months.

[RoadStress]

Do you honestly believe that there are $50M waiting to be invested in just 2 months in AM gen3 miners?

Yes.

Although perhaps a little more than 2 months.

Define more than 2 months! It can be 3 months or 10 months.

[bitfair]

Do you honestly believe that there are $50M waiting to be invested in just 2 months in AM gen3 miners?

Yes.

Although perhaps a little more than 2 months.

Define more than 2 months! It can be 3 months or 10 months.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[RoadStress]

Do you honestly believe that there are $50M waiting to be invested in just 2 months in AM gen3 miners?

Yes.

Although perhaps a little more than 2 months.

Define more than 2 months! It can be 3 months or 10 months.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

So you can't or you are afraid to tell a number of months. You are arguing with me because I don't believe that $50M will be invested into mining in 2 months, but can't give a specific time? Then what's the point of the argue? It's just a dead end. I gave you arguments you give me nothing. It's just because you say it so. If the money will be invested in 10 months you will tell me that you won the argument because it was a little more than 2 months while i have a strict deadline of 2 months you have no deadline. Be fair.

[bitfair]

So you can't or you are afraid to tell a number of months. You are arguing with me because I don't believe that $50M will be invested into mining in 2 months, but can't give a specific time? Then what's the point of the argue? It's just a dead end. I gave you arguments you give me nothing. It's just because you say it so. If the money will be invested in 10 months you will tell me that you won the argument because it was a little more than 2 months while i have a strict deadline of 2 months you have no deadline. Be fair.

Don't get your panties in an uproar.

I believe that the hashing power in question will be deployed within five months.

You say you have given arguments, but I see nothing more than opinion. You haven't backed it up by any arguments. You're all like "I don't believe", "I don't think it will happen", "I find it hard to believe", etc. And that's fine, I have nothing against opinions, just don't try to misrepresent it as "fact" or "arguments".

Anyway, I'm sick of you and you have trolled me all too well. From now on, you are ignored.

[RoadStress]

So you can't or you are afraid to tell a number of months. You are arguing with me because I don't believe that $50M will be invested into mining in 2 months, but can't give a specific time? Then what's the point of the argue? It's just a dead end. I gave you arguments you give me nothing. It's just because you say it so. If the money will be invested in 10 months you will tell me that you won the argument because it was a little more than 2 months while i have a strict deadline of 2 months you have no deadline. Be fair.

Don't get your panties in an uproar.

I believe that the hashing power in question will be deployed within five months.

You say you have given arguments, but I see nothing more than opinion. You haven't backed it up by any arguments. You're all like "I don't believe", "I don't think it will happen", "I find it hard to believe", etc. And that's fine, I have nothing against opinions, just don't try to misrepresent it as "fact" or "arguments".

Anyway, I'm sick of you and you have trolled me all too well. From now on, you are ignored.

Ok. No problem with that. You just prove me that i was right The argument started when I said that i don't think it will happen in 2 months, you think it will happen in 5 months for a whooping 250% more time. Thank you for proving me right.