Those that think Bitcoin will help developing Countries are in a fallacy

[stompix]

I disagree with that. If power companies are selling more power, generally they can afford to do so at a cheaper rate. That's why people buy things wholesale for cheaper than an individual unit.
If you have any proof that bitcoin is raising the cost of electricity for other people, I'd love to see it shared.

There is a limit on how much energy we can produce, if things were so simple we would all be paying 01.cents (10% of a cent) per kw and we would have 10TW hair dryers.

Thre is a limit how many hydro plants we can build, there is a limit how much ga we can burn and even how many windmills you can put up.

Blockchain technology helps developing countries to develop their economies! The BTC is also playing some role!
For example, in Venezuela, their legal currency has collapsed and they conduct daily transactions through BTC. There are also many BTC mines in Venezuela!

Yeah? Do they?
It's pretty interesting to hear that people who live on a wage worth 5$ a month are doing transactions over BTC and paying each time 5-10 cents for a tx.

And I'm pretty sure they do a lot of mining, with power failures every hour and days with no power at all, what could be better to ROI.

Prety funny a lot of those articles promoting how Venezuelans are using bitcoin started in December and January when the average bitcoin tx fee was twice to four times the monthly wage in Venezeuala...

Take the World Bank, for example. It makes high-interest USD-denominated loans to poor governments. That USD is necessarily used to buy US exports, fueling US growth while saddling developing countries with usurious debt. Bitcoin as a global reserve could help alleviate the current debt bondage relationship between rich and poor countries.

Those "poor" governments, how did they come in power? Not with the help of their own people?
You know what country took one of the biggest loans from the WB? It was South Korea!!! How are they doing? Poor? Flooded by US exports?

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[cryptohunter]

Of course this could become a very complex argument.

However there can be no argument against decentralised trustless networks compared to centralised control that requires trust.

You want a level playing field for all then going decentralised and trustless is the way forward. BTC may not be perfect but give it time.

Mining is only part of the picture, there are many factors to consider.

[squatter]

Take the World Bank, for example. It makes high-interest USD-denominated loans to poor governments. That USD is necessarily used to buy US exports, fueling US growth while saddling developing countries with usurious debt. Bitcoin as a global reserve could help alleviate the current debt bondage relationship between rich and poor countries.

Those "poor" governments, how did they come in power? Not with the help of their own people?
You know what country took one of the biggest loans from the WB? It was South Korea!!! How are they doing? Poor? Flooded by US exports?

Note the difference between "poor countries" and "poor governments." Governments come to power with varying levels of popular participation and mandate, but coercion and violence are always involved. Anyway, that's not relevant here.

Where does your information on South Korea come from? The World Bank data lists no outstanding loans in 1960, 1970, 2014, or 2016. But, poor countries? I see $52 billion in outstanding loans from Sub-Saharan Africa alone. This and this explains how that contributes to wealth extraction from poor countries:

In 2012, the last year of recorded data, developing countries received a total of $1.3tn, including all aid, investment, and income from abroad. But that same year some $3.3tn flowed out of them. In other words, developing countries sent $2tn more to the rest of the world than they received. If we look at all years since 1980, these net outflows add up to an eye-popping total of $16.3tn – that’s how much money has been drained out of the global south over the past few decades.

[...]

What do these large outflows consist of? Well, some of it is payments on debt. Developing countries have forked out over $4.2tn in interest payments alone since 1980 – a direct cash transfer to big banks in New York and London, on a scale that dwarfs the aid that they received during the same period.

To understand what’s going on, we have to begin with the international debt system. Ravaged by colonialism and in desperate need of capital, particularly after the oil crisis of 1973, countries in the global South had to seek out loans from the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund (IMF). But there was a catch: these loans gave the donor agencies the power to determine economic policy in the recipient countries, overriding the will of local elected leaders.

By leveraging debt, the World Bank and the IMF – which are controlled by rich countries – force developing countries to liberalise their markets, sell off their public assets, and open their doors to multinational corporations. Western economists once assured us that these policies, known as “structural adjustment programs,” would stimulate development. But in reality they have done exactly the opposite, cutting income growth rates in half[3] and causing mass poverty.

[Ahimoth]

I disagree with that. If power companies are selling more power, generally they can afford to do so at a cheaper rate. That's why people buy things wholesale for cheaper than an individual unit.
If you have any proof that bitcoin is raising the cost of electricity for other people, I'd love to see it shared.

There is a limit on how much energy we can produce, if things were so simple we would all be paying 01.cents (10% of a cent) per kw and we would have 10TW hair dryers.

Thre is a limit how many hydro plants we can build, there is a limit how much ga we can burn and even how many windmills you can put up.

Blockchain technology helps developing countries to develop their economies! The BTC is also playing some role!
For example, in Venezuela, their legal currency has collapsed and they conduct daily transactions through BTC. There are also many BTC mines in Venezuela!

Yeah? Do they?
It's pretty interesting to hear that people who live on a wage worth 5$ a month are doing transactions over BTC and paying each time 5-10 cents for a tx.

And I'm pretty sure they do a lot of mining, with power failures every hour and days with no power at all, what could be better to ROI.

Prety funny a lot of those articles promoting how Venezuelans are using bitcoin started in December and January when the average bitcoin tx fee was twice to four times the monthly wage in Venezeuala...

Take the World Bank, for example. It makes high-interest USD-denominated loans to poor governments. That USD is necessarily used to buy US exports, fueling US growth while saddling developing countries with usurious debt. Bitcoin as a global reserve could help alleviate the current debt bondage relationship between rich and poor countries.

Those "poor" governments, how did they come in power? Not with the help of their own people?
You know what country took one of the biggest loans from the WB? It was South Korea!!! How are they doing? Poor? Flooded by US exports?

I totally disagree with this statement because I also believe that bitcoin is a key for development. It can create a way for innovation of country if it wil be justa accepted. Many opportunities are waiting once a country started to adopt the system of bitcoin. I know that bitcoin now is a part of modern world so be involved with it.

[stompix]

Where does your information on South Korea come from? The World Bank data lists no outstanding loans in 1960, 1970, 2014, or 2016. But, poor countries? I see $52 billion in outstanding loans from Sub-Saharan Africa alone. This and this explains how that contributes to wealth extraction from poor countries:

Of course there are no outstanding loans, because SK has paid them all back.
Even the 3 billion they've received in 1997 during the Asian crisis they've repaid it in less than 3 months!!!!

http://pubdocs.worldbank.org/en/754261483515257926/Korea-Timeline.pdf

Note the difference between "poor countries" and "poor governments." Governments come to power with varying levels of popular participation and mandate, but coercion and violence are always involved. Anyway, that's not relevant here.

Oh, but it is!!!!

It's like a guy takes a loan, buys a tractor, starts a farm and is doing great while 10 others use their money for hookers and booze and the fault lies with the bank lending them money. Legit!!!!

How did SK manage to build all its infrastructure with the WB and the Sub-Saharian states not?
Probably the problem is not with the one lending money but with the ones getting those loans?

Watch this movie (the best starts from that moment) , it's a Chinese telling the Africans the same story, I doubt he is a CIA or WB shill...
https://youtu.be/1a-QpyF7rNc?t=4390
 

[shaw1]

The benefits outweigh the downsides.

I'm going to zoom out from bitcoin, and go to all crypto.

Let's say I live in a third world country. (Lucky enough not to, but there for the Grace of God, go I.)
I can send money instantly for insanely cheap fees, to anywhere in the world. (Not BTC alone. BCH, Doge, ETH, LTC, Etc... There are better currencies for transfer, than bitcoin).

The government can't stop, and tax my money. They can't confiscate it from me. (Without my passphrase, anyway.)

Let's say I want to document crimes against the people. If I put it on the steem blockchain, it can't be removed by a propaganda arm of any government. I have documented it far more permanently than any conventional methods could have done.

Let's say I can't afford a lawyer, but wish to conduct a business trade. Grab an open source ETH smart contract, and I can conduct business without outside entities, and can have a fairly executed deal.

If I don't want anyone in my country to know I have money, or know where I send it, I can use Monero, or ZCash, or any of the privacy cryptocurrencies.

These things allow everyone a shot at some of the luxuries we take for granted in more affluent countries.
And I don't think "muh electric" is reason enough to try to subjugate the people in third world countries trying to claw their way up to a better life. They are going to need these tools.

[hulla]

You make a genuine point OP and I agreed with what you said concern the developing countries mining, pump and dump scheme but all that is not an obstacles or something which will hindered developing countries from doing bitcoin though cause they can still do the trading, bounty and sign campaign part.

[squatter]

Where does your information on South Korea come from? The World Bank data lists no outstanding loans in 1960, 1970, 2014, or 2016. But, poor countries? I see $52 billion in outstanding loans from Sub-Saharan Africa alone. This and this explains how that contributes to wealth extraction from poor countries:

Of course there are no outstanding loans, because SK has paid them all back.
Even the 3 billion they've received in 1997 during the Asian crisis they've repaid it in less than 3 months!!!!

http://pubdocs.worldbank.org/en/754261483515257926/Korea-Timeline.pdf

How does that address what I said? One member country being able to repay their loans says nothing about my point, that the lending infrastructure is used to extract wealth:

In 2012, the last year of recorded data, developing countries received a total of $1.3tn, including all aid, investment, and income from abroad. But that same year some $3.3tn flowed out of them. In other words, developing countries sent $2tn more to the rest of the world than they received. If we look at all years since 1980, these net outflows add up to an eye-popping total of $16.3tn – that’s how much money has been drained out of the global south over the past few decades. To get a sense for the scale of this, $16.3tn is roughly the GDP of the United States.

Note the difference between "poor countries" and "poor governments." Governments come to power with varying levels of popular participation and mandate, but coercion and violence are always involved. Anyway, that's not relevant here.

Oh, but it is!!!!

It's like a guy takes a loan, buys a tractor, starts a farm and is doing great while 10 others use their money for hookers and booze and the fault lies with the bank lending them money. Legit!!!!

How did SK manage to build all its infrastructure with the WB and the Sub-Saharian states not?
Probably the problem is not with the one lending money but with the ones getting those loans?

Seriously? Your answer is that "Koreans buy tractors and start farms but Africans use their money for hookers and booze"? What possible evidence do you have for these comparisons? Next, are you going to say that Africans have smaller brains, too?

I gave you two well-sourced links that give much more compelling explanations than that.

And just to be clear, I only mentioned the World Bank because they issue loans in USD. The IMF, WTO and dishonest multinationals are also important parts of the wealth extraction infrastructure.

[ladydark]

Already we could find such happenings in Venezuela.E ven in Nigeria too,i heard that it has become a main source of income for its citizens.Under developed countries which lack opportunities for earning could use bitcoin to increase earnings.

[emmybd]

It is true that bitcoin will not help developing countries greatly, but if it can help a little bit which matters most. I think bitcoin can help the youth of the developing countries a lot.

[Lenzie]

I think it is not only about Bitcoin but the whole blockchain technology which can make a great change in the working and development of the country. Bitcoin is just a successful example of what the power of crypto and blockcahin can do in the world.

No bitcoin has no greater impact on the country's economy right now. Today there are far way greater problems of the economy than bitcoin.

It is just on it'd developing period and I don'r think it is a much greater helpto the developing country either

[Rossy Akbar]

The fallacy of what, I think for the fallacy of economys problem. You can see what affect those country get if bitcoin has their own regulation and all of their society using it, there are gonna be a lot od movement of course.

[suzanne5223]

I personally believe bitcoin will help the developing countries because most of the problem of the developing countries are from their government act of corruption and this usually occur in Africa. Mind you, cryptocurrencies has the key to national liberation cause of it decentralized in nature which give people personal financial freedom from government.

 Isn't thats the reason behind bitcoin creation?
Don't tell me you don't know.

[d5000]

I think the long-term the existence of "global currencies" without imposed barriers should benefit developing countries. But the OP is right, that the current Bitcoin distribution is extremely focused on "first-world countries". That could change, however ... remember when Nigeria was on the first place at Google Trends when searching for the word "Bitcoin"? And there is also the possibility that alt-coins with a better geographic distribution could emerge and rival Bitcoin.

A little comment to the Africa/SK discussion: Poor governance is often (not always!) correlated with poor education standards. It's not the fault of persons without minimal education about politics and economics (and have no chance to achieve that without help, because they must work 12-16 hours a day to survive) that they aren't that informed like Europeans (or South Koreans) when it comes to elect a government. And regarding Africa, more than half of the countries are authoritarian regimes, and even if there are elections, there's very difficult for people to change something via voting.

[stompix]

Where does your information on South Korea come from? The World Bank data lists no outstanding loans in 1960, 1970, 2014, or 2016. But, poor countries? I see $52 billion in outstanding loans from Sub-Saharan Africa alone. This and this explains how that contributes to wealth extraction from poor countries:

How does that address what I said? One member country being able to repay their loans says nothing about my point, that the lending infrastructure is used to extract wealth:

It addresses it perfectly.
One country gets loans, is investing it using the brain and is able to pay it back in full.
Other countries which use those loans for social programs in order to bribe the masses find out that at the end of the year there is nothing left to payback and there are no prospects of ever paying it back

Seriously? Your answer is that "Koreans buy tractors and start farms but Africans use their money for hookers and booze"? What possible evidence do you have for these comparisons?

I gave you two well-sourced links that give much more compelling explanations than that.

No, they didn't buy tractors, they bought machinery to build a tractor factory .
That's the difference between SK or RSA or even Marroco and the rest of the poor countries.

And those well-trusted sources...let's dig a bit about one of them, especially the Guardian, a leftist piece of shit that has brought us other well-documented articles:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/07/venezuela-not-greece-latin-america-oil-poverty

 
Of course Venezueala is suffering also because of the FMI and the WB, not because of the Chavez and Maduro regimes.

Next, are you going to say that Africans have smaller brains, too?

Nope, size doesn't matter when it comes to brains.
But you see, there was an economic superpower in Africa ...till...it's kind of hard to ignore this example....

Your answer is that "Koreans buy tractors and start farms but Africans use their money for hookers and booze"? What possible evidence do you have for these comparisons?

It's not me it's the Chinese from that video saying it....watch the full video if you can't have the African experience first hand.
But don't blame the poverty in Africa on the WB,FMI, Illuminati and other.
Blame it on stupidity, and Africa is full of it!!!!!

And regarding Africa, more than half of the countries are authoritarian regimes, and even if there are elections, there's very difficult for people to change something via voting.

Eastern Europe had no election at all till the '90.
Yet things changed  .

[ambisyon]

I think that btc had helped developing countries in some way like joining signature campaigns and earning profit. At least btc was able to give the people a sort of livelihood job for the many people earning with below tolerable income. This way, jobless, unemployed and underemployed people from the 3rd world would agree that btc is something like an opportunity for them to earn money through bounty campaigns.

[thirdkiller]

 could it help, or could not, I think initially all of it depends on humanity, people can take whatever and make good or bad it's all our choice, so even with bitcoin and decentralized financial system we can do better if we would want it to be better

[Yatsan]

Sometimes i read stuff in this forum, so ridiculous but completely wrong, what so many people think, because they simply have a very small portion of awareness how the world works and only do quick assumptions on few information

Thinking Bitcoin will help developing Countries is absolutely wrong, situation for developing countries might even get worse.

firstly: mining Bitcoin is happening mostly in developd countries and in developing countries where there are already electricity shortages the mining of bitcoin makes it even worse, leading to higher expenses for electricity which is needed there for educating children, or building schools.

secondly:
Bitcoin increases costs for electricity in the developed world which then makes prices higher for the industrial production of investment goods like machines for farming and many moore, which the people in the developing countries need to develop their country.

thirdly:
Bitcoin changes what the youth in the developed world is doing where bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are more likely to be created mined and earned towards not developing poor countries but now towards fullfilling the greed of those that are running the mining and crypto infrastructure.

Lambo memes are a very good example of that. it represents the greed the pump and dump schemes

and much more.

these crazy falacities come from a curse of life, which comes from the need to do decisions and asumptions based on very few information.

but you know what the biggest joke of all this is?

the people in the developing countries can't do anything about that, they have to accept that.

regards

That's the reaskn why some third- world countries ban the operation of bitcoin in their country specifically bitcoin mining. I don't see actually why they do so because mining isn't a very rewarding method to earn after all, there are other ways to earn bitcoin's which are relatively easier to do and are cheaper unlike mining which is very expensive and complex for the common people to do.

[code]

I believe that bitcoin will lead to the rationality and accuracy of money handling. after all, in the case when you keep bitcoin at yourself - you should be very careful in their spending and storage. no one will help you in case of loss