[ANN][KARM] Karmacoin - New Initiatives - Helping People Do Good

[ptman]

Oh I didn't considered this fact, you are right for most part !

No, he is not.

I think that you can change the parameters of a coin (such as coin maximum supply, and coin generation rate, or even the algorithm) without killing the confidence in the coin.

Of course you should only do such changes if they contribute to the coin purpose.

In our case limiting the coin maximum number to 50 billion would lead to an increase in the value (at least in the short term) and would allow us to give bigger donations, that would lead to a greater visibility of our community.

Of course a 10x increase in Karmacoin value caused by a more limited coin supply would not be of any good if 99.9% of people holding karma are greedy bastards that will not give money to any cause anyways...

PLEASE GIVE SOME SPARE KARMACOIN MILLIONS TO THE CHILDREN IN KENYA!
http://karmafund.me/

[Delaforetnoire]

I think that we could change to 50B + 1% more each year until our total of 92B. It allows to cover the lost coins (lost password, dead wallets...) and nothing change for the total number of coins.

[Delaforetnoire]

https://comkort.com/vote
We can do it by next Sunday if we stay in first six coins !
Let's vote, 3 votes per hour with a registred account, 1 per hour without account.
We do this for 6 days and we have another market !

[ptman]

I think that we could change to 50B + 1% more each year until our total of 92B. It allows to cover the lost coins (lost password, dead wallets...) and nothing change for the total number of coins.

I continue to think that changing the total number of coins is not a problem; if and only if most part of Karmacoin users think it is a good idea (that is what pools are for).

A big difference between cryptocurrency and fiat money is that the rules of a given cryptocoin are dictated by the majority of its users and not by a small group of persons (e.g. the moneylenders).

If more than 50% of karmacoin users think that the total number of coins should change are are willing to do it, then it will change.

[tomoto]

Yep 92 B is to much coins actually for the market.

And we also need something that a lot of others coin does not some inovation that keep interess.

[p4r4m0un7]

Change to 50B + 1% year until 92B and PoS for coins after (x) days in same wallets 

+1

Why PoS?

I see "minting" as a way for removing big sell walls from exchanges. Actually, I am not sure if 1% is good Idea. Maybe 1%, maybe 5% and why not 20% for the first year. It is a matter of discussion. But reducing to 50 billions, oh boy, this is really good. Almost all of you disagreed for tech change that will make Karma more attractable for miners, by saying that is most important to make it more attractable for investors. Reducing the total supply + POS is a very strong move ahead. Of course, let everyone know about that and let`s see what will come up. May some genius ideas will pop up.

tampering with coin supply rate does NOT make the value go up. this is the same moronic logic that the federal reserve uses to manage and manipulate all USD based markets.
several times now the coin supply rate has halved by design and this has not caused any shift in the price of KarmaCoin at all. this is because the price of KarmaCoin is determined by the people selling (ie those who already hold coins) not by those people mining.

further more Bitcoins biggest selling point is that it is scarce resource and that is because the coin supply cannot be tampered with. once you start messing with it (up or down) you completely destroy peoples faith in that premise.

If you go past the point of no return there is no coming back... If you can reduce coin production rate arbitrarily then what is to stop you from later increasing it arbitrarily to suit your own needs?

the very second you alter the coins production rate in any way you are effectively destroying its deflationary nature.

by reducing the production rate of the coin all you are doing is reducing the amount of coins that go to miners thus making the coin less profitable to mine so you are effectively taking coins out of the hands of the people doing the work to secure the network and giving more power to the coins held by those people who already control vast amounts of coins. (This is called Crony Capitalism or Oligarchy)
Not only that but you are reducing the network hash rate and making the coin network more vulnerable to attack.

Maxcoin tried this trick and for a few weeks it seemed to work and then the price crashed back down again. In the short term yes it will benefit those people who hold the coin and want to dump it but in the longer term all it does is erode public confidence in the coin and concentrate power into fewer hands.

Seriously I cant believe people are even considering tampering with fundamental ideas of Crypto currency just to line their own pockets, especially when they are discussing the future of a coin supposedly based on Altruism. There isn't a coin in this world that could be successfully altruistic if it was being controlled by greedy mofos.

First, did you ever been in Hong Kong? Second, Karmacoin is not a charity coin - everyone must remember this. Third, most of the coins are mined not by you and me, but a big P2P pool, which holds maybe 25 billions of the Karmacoins. How are you planning to make them remove their coins from 1 satoshi and maybe less sell walls. With altruism? How are you planning to spread Karma if there is no buy orders, because the coin is not recognized yet? For what securing you are talking about when the net is about 250 - 400MHs? One big operation and there will be no network. What do you suggest? To keep do nothing? Don`t look at Karmacoin with the eyes for Bitcoin and Litecoin. This is different. Times are different, conjuncture is different. Changes just have to be made. It doesn`t matter if we like it or not.

And one more thing. If not this week, then the next we will be removed from BTC market. https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=15 Just as I told you. I told you also that Karma will fall under 16 litoshi and it happened. I told you that it will fall under 10 and it happened. I told you that we will be removed from BTC market and it is happening. And you are continuing to fall in blindness and saying that no tech change have to be done?!?

[ptman]

A change to the X11 algorithm would be cool (if done properly).

But I do not think it is the most important thing to do now.

Right now I think that we should:

1) donate to http://karmafund.me/ regardless of how much are the coins worth (when we hit 1 billion donated coins it will be great news in the media),
2) change the maximum number of coins to 50 (or 60) billion,
3) increase the difficulty of mining by a factor of around 10x (or decrease the block reward by 10x).

[ShawnLeary]

Change to 50B + 1% year until 92B and PoS for coins after (x) days in same wallets 

+1

Why PoS?

I see "minting" as a way for removing big sell walls from exchanges. Actually, I am not sure if 1% is good Idea. Maybe 1%, maybe 5% and why not 20% for the first year. It is a matter of discussion. But reducing to 50 billions, oh boy, this is really good. Almost all of you disagreed for tech change that will make Karma more attractable for miners, by saying that is most important to make it more attractable for investors. Reducing the total supply + POS is a very strong move ahead. Of course, let everyone know about that and let`s see what will come up. May some genius ideas will pop up.

tampering with coin supply rate does NOT make the value go up. this is the same moronic logic that the federal reserve uses to manage and manipulate all USD based markets.
several times now the coin supply rate has halved by design and this has not caused any shift in the price of KarmaCoin at all. this is because the price of KarmaCoin is determined by the people selling (ie those who already hold coins) not by those people mining.

further more Bitcoins biggest selling point is that it is scarce resource and that is because the coin supply cannot be tampered with. once you start messing with it (up or down) you completely destroy peoples faith in that premise.

If you go past the point of no return there is no coming back... If you can reduce coin production rate arbitrarily then what is to stop you from later increasing it arbitrarily to suit your own needs?

the very second you alter the coins production rate in any way you are effectively destroying its deflationary nature.

by reducing the production rate of the coin all you are doing is reducing the amount of coins that go to miners thus making the coin less profitable to mine so you are effectively taking coins out of the hands of the people doing the work to secure the network and giving more power to the coins held by those people who already control vast amounts of coins. (This is called Crony Capitalism or Oligarchy)
Not only that but you are reducing the network hash rate and making the coin network more vulnerable to attack.

Maxcoin tried this trick and for a few weeks it seemed to work and then the price crashed back down again. In the short term yes it will benefit those people who hold the coin and want to dump it but in the longer term all it does is erode public confidence in the coin and concentrate power into fewer hands.

Seriously I cant believe people are even considering tampering with fundamental ideas of Crypto currency just to line their own pockets, especially when they are discussing the future of a coin supposedly based on Altruism. There isn't a coin in this world that could be successfully altruistic if it was being controlled by greedy mofos.

First, did you ever been in Hong Kong? Second, Karmacoin is not a charity coin - everyone must remember this. Third, most of the coins are mined not by you and me, but a big P2P pool, which holds maybe 25 billions of the Karmacoins. How are you planning to make them remove their coins from 1 satoshi and maybe less sell walls. With altruism? How are you planning to spread Karma if there is no buy orders, because the coin is not recognized yet? For what securing you are talking about when the net is about 250 - 400MHs? One big operation and there will be no network. What do you suggest? To keep do nothing? Don`t look at Karmacoin with the eyes for Bitcoin and Litecoin. This is different. Times are different, conjuncture is different. Changes just have to be made. It doesn`t matter if we like it or not.

And one more thing. If not this week, then the next we will be removed from BTC market. https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=15 Just as I told you. I told you also that Karma will fall under 16 litoshi and it happened. I told you that it will fall under 10 and it happened. I told you that we will be removed from BTC market and it is happening. And you are continuing to fall in blindness and saying that no tech change have to be done?!?

Damn this is a tough one.  I 100% agree with Alphi and I mostly agree with paramount.  Part of me wants to just keep it the way it is rather than risking total shame upon our karma coin.  We stay in this trading range for the next three four months and build our wallets and community keeping it cheap to acquire.  The other part of me is saying, do we need to do something this drastic right now?  I sort of thought this was essentially a POWlight from the start with the quick and easy release of the coins.  Could a reduction to 72B be a satisfactory compromise and not look like we are all trying to line our pockets?  But as Alphi states, no one would trust the devs again of this coin and I agree.  POS may be the only legitimate major option.  Is there some other function that could be added to the coins algorithm to make it more appealing and otherwise not mess with the total number.  Changing the functionality could increase value without messing with the other fundamentals of scarcity.

[dips55tree]

Hi All...

Just donated 1M Karma to the Karmafund.  I believe in this community and this coin....and hope I can help the cause.

The way I see it is there are only 40B to 50B left to mine.  We should view this as an opportunity to attract as many new miner types as we can using as many new innovations that's feasible for the last 40B. 

[kosmost]

Change to 50B + 1% year until 92B and PoS for coins after (x) days in same wallets  

+1

Why PoS?

I see "minting" as a way for removing big sell walls from exchanges. Actually, I am not sure if 1% is good Idea. Maybe 1%, maybe 5% and why not 20% for the first year. It is a matter of discussion. But reducing to 50 billions, oh boy, this is really good. Almost all of you disagreed for tech change that will make Karma more attractable for miners, by saying that is most important to make it more attractable for investors. Reducing the total supply + POS is a very strong move ahead. Of course, let everyone know about that and let`s see what will come up. May some genius ideas will pop up.

I believe your statement, "Almost all of you disagreed for tech change that will make Karma more attractable for miners, by saying that is most important to make it more attractable for investors." is incorrect. I think I was the only one to respond to that (not "Almost all of you", as you stated). I did not say miners were not important and investors were more important. Please quote correctly

Miners ARE investors. They have spent their resources to get a commodity (in this case, mining for Karmacoin with their hardware and electricity and time).

[kosmost]

tampering with coin supply rate does NOT make the value go up. this is the same moronic logic that the federal reserve uses to manage and manipulate all USD based markets.
several times now the coin supply rate has halved by design and this has not caused any shift in the price of KarmaCoin at all. this is because the price of KarmaCoin is determined by the people selling (ie those who already hold coins) not by those people mining.

further more Bitcoins biggest selling point is that it is scarce resource and that is because the coin supply cannot be tampered with. once you start messing with it (up or down) you completely destroy peoples faith in that premise.

If you go past the point of no return there is no coming back... If you can reduce coin production rate arbitrarily then what is to stop you from later increasing it arbitrarily to suit your own needs?

the very second you alter the coins production rate in any way you are effectively destroying its deflationary nature.

by reducing the production rate of the coin all you are doing is reducing the amount of coins that go to miners thus making the coin less profitable to mine so you are effectively taking coins out of the hands of the people doing the work to secure the network and giving more power to the coins held by those people who already control vast amounts of coins. (This is called Crony Capitalism or Oligarchy)
Not only that but you are reducing the network hash rate and making the coin network more vulnerable to attack.

Maxcoin tried this trick and for a few weeks it seemed to work and then the price crashed back down again. In the short term yes it will benefit those people who hold the coin and want to dump it but in the longer term all it does is erode public confidence in the coin and concentrate power into fewer hands.

Seriously I cant believe people are even considering tampering with fundamental ideas of Crypto currency just to line their own pockets, especially when they are discussing the future of a coin supposedly based on Altruism. There isn't a coin in this world that could be successfully altruistic if it was being controlled by greedy mofos.

The halving does not affect the current supply but the future rate of reward distribution.

Any market works by the supply and demand maxim. If supply of something remains steady as demand increases, its price should rise. It is not "moronic logic". Right now demand is steady while the supply continues to increase. It's one reason Dogecoin's price has tumbled by 50% in the past month. (Also notice they only add a few subreddit subscribers a day, compared to before)

Of course, you know this already. You make a nice example of it with BTC and the China equation here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=544710.msg6001834#msg6001834

Supply and demand. If, as the result of a lessened supply, there are only 1 billion coins on the market for sale instead of 12 billion (because we did not cap the supply) then there would be too much supply with an unsatisfied demand factor.

(Also, I don't agree with your statement that "the role of the miners is to secure the network not to dictate the price", in a previous post. Of course miners' actions effect the price, as anyone who holds Karmacoin or the actions of any other market actor would. In this post you continue the thought, expressing, "...this is because the price of KarmaCoin is determined by the people selling (ie those who already hold coins) not by those people mining." Are you suggesting there is only 1 hand at work in the marketplace?)

The only question, in this case, is "will a more finite supply (instead of 10s of billions more available for sale in the near future) increase the demand or lessen it?"

Your statement, "further more Bitcoins biggest selling point is that it is scarce resource " was only true a few days ago. For 99% of it's existence, Bitcoin had an infinite supply of coins, not 21 million as had been believed by most. It was the perception of a scarce resource. But I'm sure the guy who patched it wasn't the first person to notice (since the code is available for all to see, and has been combed over many times I'm sure).

<<the very second you alter the coins production rate in any way you are effectively destroying its deflationary nature>> unfounded, and inaccurate.

<<There isn't a coin in this world that could be successfully altruistic if it was being controlled by greedy mofos.>> The people make up the coin, not the other way around. By implying that others are "greedy mofos" we can only wonder why you are interested in Karmacoin. You've posted a lot, and it's appreciated. But perhaps that statement is not in line with "altruism", if that is what you imply is the purpose of this coin. But of course, if we want to be altruistic we'd be actively doing something to further the coin, not just typing and typing.

[kosmost]

Please note: out of 10 votes, 0 people have "No, no changes" to the total supply of coins. 100% have voted for a change.

Anyone who wishes to express an opinion feel free to do so at the following link if you haven't already.

http://karmashare.me/index.php?do=/poll/10/should-karmacoin-change-its-code-to-decrease-the-total-of-coins-from-92-bil/

[cryptowho]

with total sum coin reduced. Once karmacoin is removed from btc into only ltc/karm in mintpal it will stabilize in price. As of right now. 1,2,3 satoshis have so many strong walls. once they are removed from there and given ltc values all of the sudden now there are more option. it introduces more numbers.

Some one wanting to place a trade order for 20 mill of karma only has few options. 1, 2, or 3 satoshis. there is not a lot of space for other option and a trade from 1 satoshi to 2 satoshi is high. Once there is latoshis. now they have a lot more ranges. will they sell at 33 latoshi, 34 latoshish, 35 latoshis? and to break a latoshi wall is easy.


this will be a good thing for karmacoin. it will stabilize and then it will rise. there will be less coins to dump and everyone will try to buy as cheap as they can


Like i said. cap the size down so we can stop dumping. Turn the coin to true POS and let it stake slowly. Watch as everyone fights each other to get the last coins cheap. once the coins are stabilize it will go back to btc market


especially with the plans the coin has for the future : )

[cryptowho]

tampering with coin supply rate does NOT make the value go up. this is the same moronic logic that the federal reserve uses to manage and manipulate all USD based markets.
several times now the coin supply rate has halved by design and this has not caused any shift in the price of KarmaCoin at all. this is because the price of KarmaCoin is determined by the people selling (ie those who already hold coins) not by those people mining.

further more Bitcoins biggest selling point is that it is scarce resource and that is because the coin supply cannot be tampered with. once you start messing with it (up or down) you completely destroy peoples faith in that premise.

If you go past the point of no return there is no coming back... If you can reduce coin production rate arbitrarily then what is to stop you from later increasing it arbitrarily to suit your own needs?

the very second you alter the coins production rate in any way you are effectively destroying its deflationary nature.

by reducing the production rate of the coin all you are doing is reducing the amount of coins that go to miners thus making the coin less profitable to mine so you are effectively taking coins out of the hands of the people doing the work to secure the network and giving more power to the coins held by those people who already control vast amounts of coins. (This is called Crony Capitalism or Oligarchy)
Not only that but you are reducing the network hash rate and making the coin network more vulnerable to attack.

Maxcoin tried this trick and for a few weeks it seemed to work and then the price crashed back down again. In the short term yes it will benefit those people who hold the coin and want to dump it but in the longer term all it does is erode public confidence in the coin and concentrate power into fewer hands.

Seriously I cant believe people are even considering tampering with fundamental ideas of Crypto currency just to line their own pockets, especially when they are discussing the future of a coin supposedly based on Altruism. There isn't a coin in this world that could be successfully altruistic if it was being controlled by greedy mofos.

The halving does not affect the current supply but the future rate of reward distribution.

Any market works by the supply and demand maxim. If supply of something remains steady as demand increases, its price should rise. It is not "moronic logic". Right now demand is steady while the supply continues to increase. It's one reason Dogecoin's price has tumbled by 50% in the past month. (Also notice they only add a few subreddit subscribers a day, compared to before)

Of course, you know this already. You make a nice example of it with BTC and the China equation here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=544710.msg6001834#msg6001834

Supply and demand. If, as the result of a lessened supply, there are only 1 billion coins on the market for sale instead of 12 billion (because we did not cap the supply) then there would be too much supply with an unsatisfied demand factor.

(Also, I don't agree with your statement that "the role of the miners is to secure the network not to dictate the price", in a previous post. Of course miners' actions effect the price, as anyone who holds Karmacoin or the actions of any other market actor would. In this post you continue the thought, expressing, "...this is because the price of KarmaCoin is determined by the people selling (ie those who already hold coins) not by those people mining." Are you suggesting there is only 1 hand at work in the marketplace?)

The only question, in this case, is "will a more finite supply (instead of 10s of billions more available for sale in the near future) increase the demand or lessen it?"

Your statement, "further more Bitcoins biggest selling point is that it is scarce resource " was only true a few days ago. For 99% of it's existence, Bitcoin had an infinite supply of coins, not 21 million as had been believed by most. It was the perception of a scarce resource. But I'm sure the guy who patched it wasn't the first person to notice (since the code is available for all to see, and has been combed over many times I'm sure).

<<the very second you alter the coins production rate in any way you are effectively destroying its deflationary nature>> unfounded, and inaccurate.

<<There isn't a coin in this world that could be successfully altruistic if it was being controlled by greedy mofos.>> The people make up the coin, not the other way around. By implying that others are "greedy mofos" we can only wonder why you are interested in Karmacoin. You've posted a lot, and it's appreciated. But perhaps that statement is not in line with "altruism", if that is what you imply is the purpose of this coin. But of course, if we want to be altruistic we'd be actively doing something to further the coin, not just typing and typing.

i think all the miner have moved on. only the investors are left. don't think the miner will mind a lot when they see the coin rise in price again

[kosmost]

i think all the miner have moved on. only the investors are left. don't think the miner will mind a lot when they see the coin rise in price again

There may not be a lot of miners actively mining, but I'm willing to bet there are still a lot of miners who hold Karmacoin. There's really no way to tell, unfortunately.

[cryptowho]

i think all the miner have moved on. only the investors are left. don't think the miner will mind a lot when they see the coin rise in price again

There may not be a lot of miners actively mining, but I'm willing to bet there are still a lot of miners who hold Karmacoin. There's really no way to tell, unfortunately.

aye. maybe some. most have probably gave up. I got a $400 electric bill for 1 month and a half. I know i mined a lot of hrs in karmacoin. But i

this is why i suggested changes. since the network is small. I would believe a lot of people want us to come up with a strategy that will help the coins future.

Just saying we should consider all the changes now, cuz if it blows up it might to hard to hard fork it again

[huige007]

Prices rose will attract a large number of miners and investors come. . .
1% increased interest on hold coins confidence. .
now Quantity of coins is too big, has been devalued.

[kosmost]

How about at 50 billion total coins it changes to PoS?

Then you get 1.5% interest for every 30 days term you keep the coins in your wallet (for the first year)

then 0.75% per month the following year, then decreasing by half after, etc

until maximum of 92 billion coins?

[cryptowho]

YEs!

Well we should figure out some proper maths so the POS don't stake a lot of coins.

[p4r4m0un7]

How about at 50 billion total coins it changes to PoS?

Then you get 1.5% interest for every 30 days term you keep the coins in your wallet (for the first year)

then 0.75% per month the following year, then decreasing by half after, etc

until maximum of 92 billion coins?

+1

I like the idea for 30 days period. It is different. I like different things!