WARNING: PAYPAL STARTED MASSIVE ACCOUNT BAN ON ANYTHING BITCOIN RELATED

[apsvinet]

You were selling a physical item that was perfectly allowed and they froze your money because they didn't like it...  How is that not illegal?

I'm guessing you just like nobody else has read their user agreement etc. Most likely says there that they have the right to do whatever the hell they want, knowing everyone just presses accept.

[alan929]

PayPal will not list any ad with the word Bitcoin in an auction or a buy it now.  Only as a classified ad. 

[bobalo]

Fuck paypal , they're afraid of bitcoin.
I sell my bitcoins over paypal and they can't stop me. Just don't write anything in the note to buyer, send the money like normal.

[EdBoon]

Paypal has been absurd on this issue, and not clear about it when you ask any questions at all.  First I had about 10k held in an account and they sent the same letter that everyone else has shown previously in this thread, so I called them they said if you do everything required on the resolution page it will be okay, so I returned everyone's money (huge pain) luckily it was mostly contracts so it didn't cause too many problems, signed the affidavit and had it notarized, and they perm-ban my account shortly after.

I decided to sell some scrypt mining hardware, computers with multiple gpus basically, so I called them and made sure that it was not against policy to sell these machines and they said okay.  I sold 1 rig and had my account frozen.  They just wanted to know more information about the item so I explained the item and they lifted the freeze, and send me an email titled "your account is in good standing" immediately followed by "payment has cleared, you can now ship your item."  I submitted a bank transfer for the amount from the sale (3700).  The next email I received was "your account was perm-banned" and I check the transfer and it was reversed.  Thankfully I did not ship until the money was sitting in my bank account but seriously, they lift my freeze, tell me to ship the item, and then reverse my transfer. 

Bottom line is they don't give a shit about their clients.  I know everyone thinks that the solution is not to use PayPal and I wish that were an option, but reality is that eBay gives the highest customer base available and everyone wants to use PayPal for ease and familiarity. 

The President of PayPal even tweeted that it wasn't against policy to sell rigs.  Still fighting daily with them, they have caused me some serious stress though and are really screwing up a start up.

Then I see the same sellers selling rigs and contracts over and over with PayPal as the method of payment.  I don't get how they can continue to do this when they seem to be so active in my accounts.

So frustrating, I hate them so much.

[newguy05]

fyi

the account restriction/limit where you have to upload documents to get it resolved is done by the COMPLIANCE DEPT in paypal, they are generally easy to deal with, you just have to call and talk to them and upload documents etc..and they will unlock your account.

the account perm ban is determined by the RISK DEPT in paypal, they are a completely separate unit not visible to the customers, and they operate and review accounts independent of the other paypal branches, their sole purpose for existence is to use some hidden metric to determine if your account should be perm banned. You cannot contact them nor talk to them, the only time someone from that dept will call you is to inform you your account has been perm banned, there is no appeal nor recourse. Your money will be frozen for 6 months, afterwards it requires written permission + valid id matching the paypal account to get it out (they will send you a check).

So you will have many cases where the compliance dept says your account has been restored then 2 mins later it gets perm ban, as stated above the reason is because it's done by 2 separate units, and they don't talk to each other. 

So long story short (too late?), if your account got flagged for review by the risk dept, you are fucked. If it is flagged by compliance, you should be able to talk your way out of it. No one knows the exact criteria used to flag your paypal accounts for review, but keyword bitcoin + high $ value is definitely part of the criteria, so is chargebacks from your buyers.

Paypal is FUBAR, but there is no alternative, they have a complete lock on online payment (at least in the USA).  That's why bitcoin success matters.

[howardb]

You were selling a physical item that was perfectly allowed and they froze your money because they didn't like it...  How is that not illegal?

The law (If you could decide which country had juristiction) has almost nothing to do with it, Paypal T&C's that you must accept to join, allow them to do pretty much anything they want. They are absolutely notorious for closing down on a whim, and then not giving you any due process. I had a business selling computer equipment that they froze, and to this day i've had no reason or recourse. Will NEVER use/trust them or eBay (same company) again.

[curt.rowland]

I just sold 5 miners on ebay this week no problem what so ever no warning or nothing, took all payments via paypal. I can see them cracking down on the digital currency but they have no right to block sales of any kind of hardware. stop spreading disinformation.

[UltraPleb]

Any suspicion and it'll get banned, unfortunately they don't appreciate competition.

[whtchocla7e]

I can see them cracking down on the digital currency but they have no right to block sales of any kind of hardware. stop spreading disinformation.

They have every right to make make up the rules on their own service...

[Soros Shorts]

I can see them cracking down on the digital currency but they have no right to block sales of any kind of hardware. stop spreading disinformation.

They have every right to make make up the rules on their own service...

That is not entirely true. If, for example, some state legislature passes a law that makes it illegal for companies to freeze funds for over 90 days without providing cause, then PayPal's rule of freezing funds for up to 180 days would now become illegal in that state. They (PayPal) would need to modify their ToS for residents of that state if they want to continue doing business there.

[Armis]

Unfortunately illicit actors are using bitcoin to launder money and cash out stolen funds or credit cards.  If you don't know your counter party you could be complicit in this activity.

Regardless of how you FEEL about it, Anti-Money Laundering Laws exist and banks and payment processors like Paypal are under tremendous pressure from their regulators and auditors to mitigate these risks.

I'm not defending or condoning any activity.  

These are just fact of life in our "post 9/11" society.

Notwithstanding, to get around that in more practical ways simply allow checks to be used to purchase items on ebay, or cash, or other processors like google checkout etc ...

The point is, if the transaction is legal, any restrictions should be reasonable. 

Paypal is natorious for freezing accounts for little to no reason, what most people don't understand is that the people who pull the trigger at paypal aren't the geniuses there they are the power hungry worker bees, and when they make a mistake the smart ones work to cover it up until policies change. 

The only true solution to this issue is more processors, and more ebay like sites. 

If my memory serves me correctly someone tried the Ebay for Cryptocurrency  and it recently failed. 

[supersajin]

Apple, JPM, PayPal.  Bitcoin has entered the "Fight you" phase!!

[Armis]

Paypal is so hypocritcal. Paypal is owned by Ebay and ebay itself allows people to sell miners, coins, etc but then once the transactions are all processed and stuff, they wanna ban the account and keep all the money to themselves.

Paypal is quite popular for banning a lot of accounts with $1000+.. they ask you to submit all kinds of documents, and still they won't activate the account for another 6 months. They freeze millions of dollars each year to earn interest on the money.

That happened to me years ago; luckily the amount was less than that.

Do not use Paypal, they are like a criminal organization, just without the violence

if you give them the violence they will be more receptive to reason, otherwise you are stuck trying to fight them in an arena where you will most certainly lose -- court

[Armis]

I don't get one thing. According to the email they don't allow users to sell virtual curency, there's no word about mining equipment, but some people got suspended or banned for selling hardware.  

that's not true,

firstly, you can sell virtual currency, just like you can sell fiat on ebay, or many other things but once you sell a lot of them, once it looks like you are in the xyz business you just stepped into a new level of ebay and paypal 

so let's say you have an ebay account and you sold all sorts of different things, and purchased a variety of things over time, it will seem like you are not using ebay in a business way even you think you are.  Conversely, if you recently joined a large cyprtocurrency meetup group was elected treasurer and you thought it would be a good fundraising idea to sell various CCs to raise funds for the club and awareness for the coins,  if you listed and sold 20 different CC over the following month and raised $6000  all of a sudden red flags would go off all over the place.  If you should expect your account to be limited too.

Paypal can look at your account and see what you do, what your proclivities are, and how much of a risk taker you are, ALL of that is factored into their risk algorithm for wanting to work with you.   If you have a strong attitude to add to that mix you can forget it, you will get your walking papers forthwith, but your money will be held for the 180 days.

So if your username has anything to do with bitcoin, if you buy and sell lots of mining equipment, if you subscribe to bitcoin this or that, if you transfer money to other people that also do the same and if they also have "risky" behavior, you could expect to get the 'boot too'.

The answer is simple diversify, when they contact you for anything, take your money out what you are on the phone, they may reverse it anyway but at least try to remove it.

diversify and if at all possible stay away from paypal
 

[Bit_Happy]

My account is back to regular status now after a 4 day review.

Congrats you are fortunate 

[circusmidget11]

Paypal should of just let it be and collect their ridiculous fees.  Haters gonna hate. 

[roslinpl]

Paypal vs Bitcoin

eh ... But seems reasonable. Paypal fear a lot.

[LostDutchman]

You people just don't get it, do you?

[Armis]

Paypal vs Bitcoin

eh ... But seems reasonable. Paypal fear a lot.

horrible comparison,   paypal is a processor of currency not a currency


a more fair comparison is:

Mt. Gox vs Paypal

both freeze funds, and take on a quasi govt roll as their contemptuous disrespect of clients grow

[roslinpl]

Paypal vs Bitcoin

eh ... But seems reasonable. Paypal fear a lot.

horrible comparison,   paypal is a processor of currency not a currency


a more fair comparison is:

Mt. Gox vs Paypal

both freeze funds, and take on a quasi govt roll as their contemptuous disrespect of clients grow

They play strange games with us. Will you ever again use Paypal or MtGox? Me not.