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Author Topic: How much money and bitcoins do you need to influence the price?  (Read 1468 times)
Kprawn
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June 18, 2018, 04:09:05 PM
 #1

So, the latest buzzword in Bitcoin is manipulation. Has anyone worked out how much money and bitcoins is needed to trigger

a change in the buy and sell behaviour of traders on exchanges? I know the Silkroad Auction did not make a significant impact

on the price and the same goes for the odd coins that were sold from the MtGox hoard. How many coins can individuals dump

on exchanges to push the price down like this? How long can they sustain such an action to sabotage the price? These are

questions that are very relative at the moment.  Roll Eyes

If the SEC says that the high price increase of last year was manipulation, then they must bring the proof. Let's do our own

informal assessment of the situation and determine what would be needed to cause that kind of a spike in the price.  Wink

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June 18, 2018, 04:52:17 PM
 #2

I think maybe it could be up to $ 1 million to be able to affect the price in the market
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June 18, 2018, 04:55:54 PM
 #3

I think manipulating bitcoin price is not easy anymore but with couple of hundred grands you can manipulate altcoin prices.

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June 18, 2018, 05:14:03 PM
 #4

It's more difficult now because bitcoin has a large market cap, but for lower MC altcoins it would be very easy. Mt Gox isn't just about them dumping their coins, it's about panic sellers learning about gox moving their coins that causes the jitters


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June 18, 2018, 05:24:04 PM
 #5

So, the latest buzzword in Bitcoin is manipulation. Has anyone worked out how much money and bitcoins is needed to trigger

a change in the buy and sell behaviour of traders on exchanges? I know the Silkroad Auction did not make a significant impact

on the price and the same goes for the odd coins that were sold from the MtGox hoard. How many coins can individuals dump

on exchanges to push the price down like this? How long can they sustain such an action to sabotage the price? These are

questions that are very relative at the moment.  Roll Eyes

If the SEC says that the high price increase of last year was manipulation, then they must bring the proof. Let's do our own

informal assessment of the situation and determine what would be needed to cause that kind of a spike in the price.  Wink

I think you need billions. But only a huge company can do that. Those who has the most Bitcoin could ever manipulate the market and that scares me a lot.


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June 18, 2018, 05:38:37 PM
 #6

Hard to give a exact number on it but I remembered that in a few occasions if someone or some group sold over or around 10,000 BTC (which is worth 67,685,650.00$ now) in one exchange in just less than an hour it could affect the price tremendously lets say about 7-10% in day change, the influence of that quantity of Bitcoin being sold will not only influence the traders in that exchange to sell their cryptocurrencies but will also influence other cryptocurrency exchanges as traders tend to use more than one exchange. Not to mention that other traders also observe other exchanges when it comes to their price action especially to the cryptocurrencies they are watching.

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June 18, 2018, 05:58:18 PM
 #7

Interesting topic to discuss because this may help the people to understand about the manipulation is real or it is just a panic word doing all the damages.But I don't know how much amount of bitcoin needed to manipulate the prices but it maybe be around 1% of total supply I think.

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June 18, 2018, 06:40:23 PM
 #8

So, the latest buzzword in Bitcoin is manipulation. Has anyone worked out how much money and bitcoins is needed to trigger

a change in the buy and sell behaviour of traders on exchanges? I know the Silkroad Auction did not make a significant impact

on the price and the same goes for the odd coins that were sold from the MtGox hoard. How many coins can individuals dump

on exchanges to push the price down like this? How long can they sustain such an action to sabotage the price? These are

questions that are very relative at the moment.  Roll Eyes

If the SEC says that the high price increase of last year was manipulation, then they must bring the proof. Let's do our own

informal assessment of the situation and determine what would be needed to cause that kind of a spike in the price.  Wink

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June 18, 2018, 08:32:08 PM
 #9

If we just for example purposes assume that Bitfinex heavily contributed to the peak of last year, they practically only needed a few hundred million in Tether to do so. They can just use the same Bitcoins and Tethers to repeat the purchase of thousands of coins without problems. In the same way other exchanges can apply this method of artificially inflating the market. Bitfinex isn't stupid enough to provide buy support with non backed Tethers when it comes to eating through genuine dumps from large players. If these large players would ever cash out and they can't, the end of Tether is only a matter of time. The likely scenario would be that Bitfinex allowed genuine dumps to happen, where they then used their own coins and Tethers to buy the market up again.
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June 18, 2018, 08:37:21 PM
 #10

So, the latest buzzword in Bitcoin is manipulation. Has anyone worked out how much money and bitcoins is needed to trigger

a change in the buy and sell behaviour of traders on exchanges? I know the Silkroad Auction did not make a significant impact

on the price and the same goes for the odd coins that were sold from the MtGox hoard. How many coins can individuals dump

on exchanges to push the price down like this? How long can they sustain such an action to sabotage the price? These are

questions that are very relative at the moment.  Roll Eyes

If the SEC says that the high price increase of last year was manipulation, then they must bring the proof. Let's do our own

informal assessment of the situation and determine what would be needed to cause that kind of a spike in the price.  Wink

Its not to totally ignore the conclusion made by SEC because the facts that surrounds it even suggested such not in totality though because at that time, a lot of people were also skeptical on the forum too with discussions surrounding the sustainability of such increase and how it would be better for the increase to be systematic rather than sporadic that was witnessed at the time. I personally preferred the former than the latter.

On the amount of money that would be needed, I think its not only the amount of bitcoin but rather the surrounding and timing effects. For example, if SEC made a pronouncement on the negative, a dumping of 100bitcoins is enough to cause damage as other people will have to fall in line not relying on the 100 bitcoin, but the pronouncement by SEC which does not even have any effect in the first place.

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June 18, 2018, 09:35:34 PM
 #11

To trigger the price you need to a big stock of bitcoin or you one of the riches man in the world and you invest your whole stock to bitcoin for sure bitcoin will be little manipulated.
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June 18, 2018, 09:49:50 PM
 #12

I'd say 2k + btc is enough to influence the markets.  You don't even have to actually sell your btc, al ot of these whales just place fake orders to scare people and lower the price.
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June 18, 2018, 09:57:54 PM
 #13

I’m thinking the same actually and confused if this manipulation issue are can be done by single individual person or mostly by one company owner behind this huge exchanges. We can assume that this is possible, your question is valid of who or on what quantity of money needed to sway the market movement. I don’t want speculate numbers as it won’t be necessary as it won’t be have enough proof.
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June 18, 2018, 10:02:06 PM
 #14

Interesting topic to discuss because this may help the people to understand about the manipulation is real or it is just a panic word doing all the damages.But I don't know how much amount of bitcoin needed to manipulate the prices but it maybe be around 1% of total supply I think.

In a current situation of BTC, I don't believed anymore in manipulation. The required money to shake a market is really huge with the big market capitalization bitcoin has now. Even whales will act, they can't literally manipulate the bitcoin market.

But because whales are whales, they can shake the market at start then panic sellers follow. They have the ability to start some panic so in other words, it will be like manipulating price but with help of panic sellers.
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June 18, 2018, 11:21:24 PM
 #15

So, the latest buzzword in Bitcoin is manipulation. Has anyone worked out how much money and bitcoins is needed to trigger

a change in the buy and sell behaviour of traders on exchanges? I know the Silkroad Auction did not make a significant impact

on the price and the same goes for the odd coins that were sold from the MtGox hoard. How many coins can individuals dump

on exchanges to push the price down like this? How long can they sustain such an action to sabotage the price? These are

questions that are very relative at the moment.  Roll Eyes

If the SEC says that the high price increase of last year was manipulation, then they must bring the proof. Let's do our own

informal assessment of the situation and determine what would be needed to cause that kind of a spike in the price.  Wink
Oh, I believe that if only for your own money, you will not be able to influence the price of bitcoin, bitcoin with huge value and capitalization as well as volume of liquidity is the biggest, because So you can not control the bitcoin price. You can only influence the price of altcoin, the coin has a low trading volume, this is easy for you if you have 100 BTC.
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June 18, 2018, 11:26:52 PM
 #16

If the SEC says that the high price increase of last year was manipulation, then they must bring the proof. Let's do our own

informal assessment of the situation and determine what would be needed to cause that kind of a spike in the price.  Wink
I'd always believed  that the market has been manipulated but you made me shook my head after reading your point about this topic.

$1 billion isn't enough and even $10 Billion will only give small impact to the price of bitcoin which can move for about +$100 to it's price. (IMO)

Can't say on how much money is needed to make the price move and start manipulating it. I'd say if there is, then it can be a big group that has more $50 billion.

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June 18, 2018, 11:31:41 PM
 #17

Not less than 2000 to be honest, because it would be too little if you have less than that amount.. so i think that it will be enough for having some influence

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June 18, 2018, 11:38:16 PM
 #18


If the SEC says that the high price increase of last year was manipulation, then they must bring the proof. Let's do our own

informal assessment of the situation and determine what would be needed to cause that kind of a spike in the price.  Wink
Manipulation or not but reaching out those prices is somehow questionable because certain things reaching out that range on a shorter timeframe cant be achieved out by traditional assets that why people who are engage into non so volatile things will have those jurisdiction.


I think maybe it could be up to $ 1 million to be able to affect the price in the market
As of writing BTC had overall marketcap on those value below.

$114,948,065,347

How would 1M usd would affect the price? We are talking billions here. BILLIONS!

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June 18, 2018, 11:53:49 PM
 #19

Not less than 2000 to be honest, because it would be too little if you have less than that amount.. so i think that it will be enough for having some influence

I  do not have any idea about it,and i that that it is also not so easy to estimate the amount of money or bitcoin to influence the whole market, but to me i think that it will really require a very good amount of money, because there are so many big whales are present who will not let you to influence the market so easily.

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June 19, 2018, 12:50:15 AM
 #20

It depends if you want to do short term influence or long term influence. Short term I would say even 100-200k could do the trick right now because of the low volume and low price. But if you want to affect things long term (where the big boys play) you would need somewhere around 10-20M. Take away a couple zeros if you are able to use margin websites.
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