MTGOX Withdrawal issue

[payb.tc]

My account was under review after the phishing attacks due to multiple ip log in. Took about a week for them to get things back to normal with some emailing back a forth, but my withdrawals to Dwolla takes only minutes.

you got a reply from aml@mtgox.com ?

my last reply from them was *2 weeks* ago!

so someone recommends i leave a personal message for mark in irc... did that on thursday, friday and now today.

i've also last week sent a PM to 'mtgox support' on this forum, who also said they forwarded my issue to support.

It took 4 days for me to first hear from Mark after sending my first email on Sept.10 to aml@mtgox.com

I did see a pasted irc chat saying they had over 2000 account flagged for review due to earlier phishing attacks, so I wasn't too worried though at the time.

likewise mark sent me a reply fairly quickly after my first email to aml. he asked me for a utility bill, but that was two full weeks ago and haven't heard anything from them since, even though i've sent multiple IDs and multiple proof of address.

they could at least reply and say what else (if anything) is required of me.

instead i'm left completely in the dark as to what's going on with the account.

[1714946959]

1714946959

[1714946959]

1714946959

[bitcoinTrader]

Same here, submitted the docs, no reply
This isnt good

[Nagle]

This isnt good

I suspect a cash shortage at Mt. Gox. They're supposed to have 100% of the customer's cash that they claim to have on deposit.  Maybe they don't. 

As a money transfer service, not a bank, under Japanese law they're required to keep customer cash separate. Failing to do so is theft.

[JonHind]

I suspect a cash shortage at Mt. Gox. They're supposed to have 100% of the customer's cash that they claim to have on deposit.  Maybe they don't. 

As a money transfer service, not a bank, under Japanese law they're required to keep customer cash separate. Failing to do so is theft.

They have had to pay a lot of chargebacks to different providers, so of course they don't have 100% of their customer's money any more.

[Nagle]

I suspect a cash shortage at Mt. Gox. They're supposed to have 100% of the customer's cash that they claim to have on deposit.  Maybe they don't. 

As a money transfer service, not a bank, under Japanese law they're required to keep customer cash separate. Failing to do so is theft.

They have had to pay a lot of chargebacks to different providers, so of course they don't have 100% of their customer's money any more.

Mt. Gox's management has to pay losses out of their own capital invested, not customer funds. If they dip into customer funds for that, it's theft.

[Mt.Gox Support]

Hello Mt.Gox Users,

Please be aware that due to the sudden increase in AML requests, processing of submitted documentation has become slightly delayed. We thank our users for their continued patience and support as we adjust to the requirements which have been obligated upon Mt.Gox.

[payb.tc]

Please be aware that due to the sudden increase in AML requests, processing of submitted documentation has become slightly delayed.

it was suggested by neofutur on irc that i need to wait 2-10 days after my last email (last thursday) for an outcome.

so hopefully 'slightly delayed' means 3-11 days 

[repentance]

Hello Mt.Gox Users,

Please be aware that due to the sudden increase in AML requests, processing of submitted documentation has become slightly delayed. We thank our users for their continued patience and support as we adjust to the requirements which have been obligated upon Mt.Gox.

You should probably edit the announcement on your site to include estimated time-frames for processing.  Most people are going to expect a "slight delay" to be a day or two, not a week or more.  They'll deal with the reality if you're open about it upfront, but they're going to feel misled if you're not.

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

Hello Mt.Gox Users,

Please be aware that due to the sudden increase in AML requests, processing of submitted documentation has become slightly delayed. We thank our users for their continued patience and support as we adjust to the requirements which have been obligated upon Mt.Gox.

Wait, I just saw this. AML = Anti-money laundry? So you are already giving data about your costumer's to governments? That's the reason for all the sudden requests on documentation?

Did you at least warn all your costumers of what's going on? If governments are already gathering data from bitcoin exchanges, this is of huge importance.

[Mt.Gox Support]

Hello Mt.Gox Users,

Please be aware that due to the sudden increase in AML requests, processing of submitted documentation has become slightly delayed. We thank our users for their continued patience and support as we adjust to the requirements which have been obligated upon Mt.Gox.

Wait, I just saw this. AML = Anti-money laundry? So you are already giving data about your costumer's to governments? That's the reason for all the sudden requests on documentation?

Did you at least warn all your costumers of what's going on? If governments are already gathering data from bitcoin exchanges, this is of huge importance.

The documentation in question is held on a secure data store. Any submitted information will not be shared by any third party under any circumstance, except where Mt.Gox is legally obliged to do so at the instigation of a police investigation.

[digital]

Hello Mt.Gox Users,

Please be aware that due to the sudden increase in AML requests, processing of submitted documentation has become slightly delayed. We thank our users for their continued patience and support as we adjust to the requirements which have been obligated upon Mt.Gox.

Wait, I just saw this. AML = Anti-money laundry? So you are already giving data about your costumer's to governments? That's the reason for all the sudden requests on documentation?

Did you at least warn all your costumers of what's going on? If governments are already gathering data from bitcoin exchanges, this is of huge importance.

The documentation in question is held on a secure data store. Any submitted information will not be shared by any third party under any circumstance, except where Mt.Gox is legally obliged to do so at the instigation of a police investigation.

Not sure if I like the sound of that...

[error]

Hello Mt.Gox Users,

Please be aware that due to the sudden increase in AML requests, processing of submitted documentation has become slightly delayed. We thank our users for their continued patience and support as we adjust to the requirements which have been obligated upon Mt.Gox.

Wait, I just saw this. AML = Anti-money laundry? So you are already giving data about your costumer's to governments? That's the reason for all the sudden requests on documentation?

Did you at least warn all your costumers of what's going on? If governments are already gathering data from bitcoin exchanges, this is of huge importance.

The documentation in question is held on a secure data store. Any submitted information will not be shared by any third party under any circumstance, except where Mt.Gox is legally obliged to do so at the instigation of a police investigation.

Not sure if I like the sound of that...

It's this sort of issue that Bitcoin was invented to solve. If you're taking USD then you're part of the problem, not the solution.

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

The documentation in question is held on a secure data store. Any submitted information will not be shared by any third party under any circumstance, except where Mt.Gox is legally obliged to do so at the instigation of a police investigation.

Has any "instigation of a police investigation" already taken place? If no, do you intend to communicate when it happens?

I made two other questions on another topic, if you would care to answer I'd appreciate. I copy them here:

Do you warn your costumers, before they join (+ an e-mail to all those who joined before such policy change), that they may be required to provide identification in order to use your services?

In case not everyone has agreed upon this rule of "you may need provide IDs", what will you do to somebody's frozen account if the owner rightfully denies to provide you his IDs?

[repentance]

The documentation in question is held on a secure data store. Any submitted information will not be shared by any third party under any circumstance, except where Mt.Gox is legally obliged to do so at the instigation of a police investigation.

It isn't necessarily the police who enforce AML laws in a given location, so I think you need to be careful about how you frame your policy.  You need to make clear in your policy that the accounts which hold user funds could be at risk of being frozen in some locations if MtGox doesn't supply user information to the financial institutions holding those funds upon request. 

[payb.tc]

i've just found out about https://mtgox.com/forms/verification

i wonder if people who have merely sent email to the aml address, will need to resubmit using that form.

[Jonathan Ryan Owens]

I'm curious about people who have Insurance, Bank and other bills, but do not pay for Utilities themselves? I'm in that situation. I pay a flat rate for my residence that includes utilities.

Why are Bank Statements not "good enough"?

Why aren't more people concerned that MtGox may be illiquid and is using AML as a means to shore up their own accounts?

They have no published AML rules, and nothing listed on the site regarding their policies and procedures.

Is it time to start the process and file complaints with the Japanese government? I have a feeling that MANY people are keeping silent, not wanting to cause a fuss, and that this is a MUCH bigger problem than people are realizing.

People, MtGox could in fact be insolvent. What next?

-Jonathan

[repentance]

I'd honestly like to see a thread about AML/CFT requirements in which all of the exchanges participate because it's going to be an ongoing issue and it would be nice to see some standardisation of verification/identification requirements among them. 

It's entirely possible that different nations in which they operate use different systems for verifying identity (Australia has a "100 points" system which is used by financial institutions, government departments, and other organisations to verify identity and which requires specific types of documents from different groups, which combined must establish who you are, your date of birth, and your current address).  The exchanges need to be clear if their policies are going to vary according to the location of the user and whether they may need additional information from users in the future.

Until the exchanges produce accounts which have been audited by reputable third parties to industry standards, people have the choice of accepting their solvency on faith or not dealing with them.  Users know that the exchanges are unregulated and they need to make decisions about their financial exposure based on all the information they have about each exchange, including the fact that they may have few legal remedies available if an exchange becomes insolvent/disappears.

[bitcool]

I have thousands of bitcoins frozen by mtgox for almost a month now, I sent them my documents two weeks ago but they have been ignoring me.

I definitely have the feeling my money is being used for something that I am not being told.

[Bimmerhead]

I have thousands of bitcoins frozen by mtgox for almost a month now, I sent them my documents two weeks ago but they have been ignoring me.

I definitely have the feeling my money is being used for something that I am not being told.

+1 I feel your pain. 

I'm wondering at what point it makes sense to book a ticket to Japan and investigate what is really happening with my money.

[Litt]

Am I the only one who thinks that accusing an exchange of being insolvent because they need to comply with the law a little over the top?

I understand they are a "bitcoin" exchange, but they still need to operate within the law in Japan regarding AML. If they shut down for something trivial like this then how long do you think your funds will be locked up then with police investigation? I'm just saying that they covering their behind is good for the community in the long run imo.

Are many people who wish to stay completely anon frustrated and annoyed to comply? Certainly, I'm sure. But is spreading FUD without any evidence other than assumptions the way to get your money available faster? I think not. I don't see how worrying and making the worst assumptions is going to help either party here.