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Author Topic: 22 Messages From Creationists To People Who Believe In Evolution  (Read 18502 times)
BitChick
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February 19, 2014, 05:06:04 PM
Last edit: February 19, 2014, 05:19:28 PM by BitChick
 #81


And here we go again. Clear sign of a human brain capitulating due to lack of knowledge and processing capability - to believes (the EZ shortcut for those that don't, can't or don't want to get it).
Terms like "Leaps of faith" are human inventions and don't exist in nature in that context. Nature (pardon my french) doesn't give a sh*t. Adapt & survive or die and have your habitat replaced by other species. Eat and get eaten, harsh and simple as that.

While you cannot understand how evolution happens, that doesn't mean I or others share the same unfortunate fate. We do understand (to the best of your abilities and knowledge), that's the main difference. Btw. it doesn't "happen" (typical religious vision of things) it occurs over time due to mutation (transgenetic, radiation), stochastics (random genetic malfunctions that turn out useful) and genetic evolution (breeds) over long timeframes (all put in very inaccurate, layman's terms).
And by time, I don't mean some magic few days of creation, a few years or a few generations. I'm talking tens, hundreds and thousands of millena, these are timeframes that (for some reason) seem to be incompehensible dimensions for religious people. Eons of time. Our own planet, solar system and galaxy formed over even much bigger timeframes, so much we know already (and another creationist/religious myth is busted)

If you understand evolution as you say you do then give me the one answer I have been looking for here.  Give me an example in the fossil record of how a fish became a dog or any kind changing into another kind.  I want just ONE fossil that proves this.  But there isn't one.  There is no concrete evidence otherwise.  These so called "transitional fossils" are not enough evidence to support this.  The fossils that are found are one that show micro-evolution, which is basically adaptations that happen within a species but not outside of the species.  Changes do and can occur within a species for sure but dogs cannot mate with cats, and so on.  Also, mutations are not observed as beneficial in our world.  They lead to major problems, such as Down's syndrome and other serious issues. The only "solution" is to throw unobservable millions of years at the problem and then that is called good "science."  That is pure speculation without any evidence to support it.  The evidence supports that animals cannot mate outside of their own kinds and when changes do happen because of mutations problems occur.

BTW,  if the earth really was millions and billions of years old the temperature of the sun is a major issue to consider.  The temperature of the sun would have been too cold back then to support life at all.

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But this means that if billions of years were true, the sun would have been much fainter in the past. However, there is no evidence that the sun was fainter at any time in the earth’s history.

Evolutionists and long-agers believe that life appeared on the earth about 3.8 billion years ago. But if that timescale were true, the sun would be 25% brighter today than it was back then. This implies that the earth would have been frozen at an average temperature of –3ºC. However, most paleontologists believe that, if anything, the earth was warmer in the past.1 The only way around this is to make arbitrary and unrealistic assumptions of a far greater greenhouse effect at that time than exists today,2 with about 1,000 times more CO2 in the atmosphere than there is today.3

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February 19, 2014, 05:22:38 PM
 #82


If you understand evolution as you say you do then give me the one answer I have been looking for here.  Give me an example in the fossil record of how a fish became a dog or any kind changing into another kind.  I want just ONE fossil that proves this. 

Are you really requesting that we show you a fossil of a half dogfish? Can you show us one piece of evidence for god?
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February 19, 2014, 05:32:14 PM
 #83


If you understand evolution as you say you do then give me the one answer I have been looking for here.  Give me an example in the fossil record of how a fish became a dog or any kind changing into another kind.  I want just ONE fossil that proves this.  

Are you really requesting that we show you a fossil of a half dogfish? Can you show us one piece of evidence for god?

To look at a newborn baby and observe how beautifully he/she has been created is enough evidence for God that I will ever need, but that won't mean anything to most people here. Wink

My point in wanting ONE fossil that shows how one kind has changed into another kind is to make the point that there is not solid observable evidence that supports the theory of evolution.  Therefore it takes "faith" to believe in it.

Your faith in evolution is not much different in my faith in creation.




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February 19, 2014, 05:33:16 PM
 #84

If you understand evolution as you say you do then give me the one answer I have been looking for here.  Give me an example in the fossil record of how a fish became a dog or any kind changing into another kind.

Don't know how to break this to ya... But you can't find a single fossil that (somehow) is supposed to demonstrate evolution in a single lifeform. You're asking for a fossil of a lifeform that somehow managed to reach an age of 150 Million years and transform.
You're looking in to wrong place, fossils are merely puzzle pieces, plus they're a terribly bad place to look for precise genetic evolution (the genetic material is non-recoverable with todays technology, thus all that remains is the shape and basic construction, which allows a limited reconstruction of its habitat and a bit of its lifestyle).

I already gave you one of many possible answers earlier in the thread, your question is long solved.

What you however are asking for is a complete timeline - by fossils and artifacts - that demonstrates the entire string of evolution. That does not exist (yet), but I also wrote the reasons for that earlier in the thread.
Take a mammoth and an elephant instead, or a sabre tooth tiger and a modern tiger, these are better suited examples if you (for some reason) refuse to look at the various well-documented human evolution steps.

And never confuse "faith" with verifyable scientific proof, another general mistake (not by accident I presume) religious people often make to avoid giving up their "faith", as they lack every little bit of proof themselves (and historically just about every single claim they made about the universe ended up being the delusional type where they originated, once a scientific verification was undertaken).
Myth and makebelieve superstitions... Sheeple, mindless robots, at least one thing is certain : de-evolution is also possible in a sense, they demonstrate that often enough.

Once again, it's proven pointless handing verifyable scientific proof to religious robots - even on a silver plate right under their noses - as their arguments are as fake as their believes.
They don't want to learn, they want to spread seeds of doubt to the scientifically illiterate/undereducated to convert them and join their army of the mindless believers.

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February 19, 2014, 05:40:06 PM
 #85

If you understand evolution as you say you do then give me the one answer I have been looking for here.  Give me an example in the fossil record of how a fish became a dog or any kind changing into another kind.

Don't know how to break this to ya... But you can't find a single fossil that (somehow) is supposed to demonstrate evolution in a single lifeform. You're asking for a fossil of a lifeform that somehow managed to reach an age of 150 Million years and transform.
You're looking in to wrong place, fossils are merely puzzle pieces, plus they're a terribly bad place to look for genetic evolution (the genetic material is non-recoverable with todays technology, thus all that remains is the shape and basic construction).

I already gave you one of many possible answers earlier in the thread, your question is long solved.

What you however are asking for is a complete timeline - by fossils and artifacts - that demonstrates the entire string of evolution. That does not exist (yet), but I also wrote the reasons for that earlier in the thread.
Take a mammoth and an elephant instead, or a sabre tooth tiger and a modern tiger, these are better suited examples if you (for some reason) refuse to look at the various well-documented human evolution steps.

Micro-evolution is observable.  I believe in "micro-evolution" or otherwise known as adaptation.  

Here is a video that shows the amazing "well documented" human evolution fossils from NOVA which is basically the shaving down of a fossil to make it "fit" the idea of how humans probably evolved. A creationist would never get away with shaving down a fossil to make it fit their belief.  I am not sure why evolutionist are allowed to.  This is supposed to be good "science" BTW:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_U9SCyWw4w   Another video worth a watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef8aAfWbpjc

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February 19, 2014, 05:41:49 PM
 #86


If you understand evolution as you say you do then give me the one answer I have been looking for here.  Give me an example in the fossil record of how a fish became a dog or any kind changing into another kind.  I want just ONE fossil that proves this.  

Are you really requesting that we show you a fossil of a half dogfish? Can you show us one piece of evidence for god?

To look at a newborn baby and observe how beautifully he/she has been created is enough evidence for God that I will ever need, but that won't mean anything to most people here. Wink

What do you see when you look at a hideous miscarried deformed baby? What do you see when you see a child starving and dying of AIDS? Why did your loving all powerful and infinitely intelligent god create AIDS and give it to that beautiful innocent baby in the first place? Why can god not create a cell free from cancer? Why are people born blind and deaf? Look at the horrors of the world and ask yourself what sick fuck would create all that tragedy then do fuck all about it? I've got a reason, AIDS evolved just like everything else did and cancers and deformities and mutations just happen. But maybe you're right, and god did create everything, but then he's a horrible evil bastard and personally I wouldn't want anything to do with him on principle alone.

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February 19, 2014, 05:51:50 PM
 #87

Is God an atheist or maybe an agnostic?
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February 19, 2014, 05:52:05 PM
 #88


If you understand evolution as you say you do then give me the one answer I have been looking for here.  Give me an example in the fossil record of how a fish became a dog or any kind changing into another kind.  I want just ONE fossil that proves this.  

Are you really requesting that we show you a fossil of a half dogfish? Can you show us one piece of evidence for god?

To look at a newborn baby and observe how beautifully he/she has been created is enough evidence for God that I will ever need, but that won't mean anything to most people here. Wink

What do you see when you look at a hideous miscarried deformed baby? What do you see when you see a child starving and dying of AIDS? Why did your loving all powerful and infinitely intelligent god create AIDS and give it to that beautiful innocent baby in the first place? Why can god not create a cell free from cancer? Why are people born blind and deaf? Look at the horrors of the world and ask yourself what sick fuck would create all that tragedy then do fuck all about it? I've got a reason, AIDS evolved just like everything else did and cancers and deformities and mutations just happen. But maybe you're right, and god did create everything, but then he's a horrible evil bastard and personally I wouldn't want anything to do with him on principle alone.

Sin entered the world when Adam and Eve disobeyed God.  Then sickness entered the world because of man's disobedience, as well as death.  We are living in fallen world with disease and sickness and pain and suffering.  Jesus came to bring life and hope.  He even healed the sick, and still does.  Most hospitals were started by Christians/Catholics to help bring healing to those that are suffering.  Most charities are religious in nature because God places it in the heart of us to reach out and love others.  

Yes, this life if filled with pain and suffering.  We will all die.  We will all be accountable for God's law, even if we don't believe in it or not.   We can choose to believe whatever we want about Him.  We can deny Him.  We can be angry with Him because things seem so "unfair."  But God out of His great love for us sent His son, Jesus, to pay the price for our sins so we can be restored to Him and have eternal life and He wills that everyone come to Him. And who should we blame for all the sin, sickness, death, pain, abuse in the world?  Satan is the deceiver.  He is the one that is behind it all.  But in rejecting God man is taking sides with the one that is behind all of these atrocities.  We have a choice.  

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February 19, 2014, 05:58:35 PM
 #89


If you understand evolution as you say you do then give me the one answer I have been looking for here.  Give me an example in the fossil record of how a fish became a dog or any kind changing into another kind.  I want just ONE fossil that proves this.  

Are you really requesting that we show you a fossil of a half dogfish? Can you show us one piece of evidence for god?

To look at a newborn baby and observe how beautifully he/she has been created is enough evidence for God that I will ever need, but that won't mean anything to most people here. Wink

My point in wanting ONE fossil that shows how one kind has changed into another kind is to make the point that there is not solid observable evidence that supports the theory of evolution.  Therefore it takes "faith" to believe in it.

Your faith in evolution is not much different in my faith in creation.

This is like asking us to show you a growing fingernail to prove to you that it grows. We could show you fingernails at all the different stages of growth, but if we show you a half or fully grown one you're not going to accept it unless you can see it growing.

And your faith is much different. We look for evidence, you look for none except the argument from beauty.
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February 19, 2014, 06:09:56 PM
 #90

i've been accused so far on this forum (amongst other things) of being a religious zealot  Huh

I'm nothing of the sort - and I don't know how I might have given that impression. Perhaps because I have a sense of morality ? I dunno.

I can admit that there may be a God - but can the "creationist" admit that there might not ?

That aside, the point I want to make is that I'm not particularly an anti religious zealot either, in the fashion of Richard Dawkins for example.

My approach to religion is one of pragmatism - if it helps some people to lead a better and more moral life, and it doesn't affect me one way or the other - then who am I to complain ?

Have a look at William James on religion - hopefully this reference at least will have some resonance amongst the majority US contingent of Bitcointalk  Wink

  I'm trying to reach my arm out across the Atlantic here fellas  Grin
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February 19, 2014, 06:14:37 PM
 #91


If you understand evolution as you say you do then give me the one answer I have been looking for here.  Give me an example in the fossil record of how a fish became a dog or any kind changing into another kind.  I want just ONE fossil that proves this.  

Are you really requesting that we show you a fossil of a half dogfish? Can you show us one piece of evidence for god?

To look at a newborn baby and observe how beautifully he/she has been created is enough evidence for God that I will ever need, but that won't mean anything to most people here. Wink

What do you see when you look at a hideous miscarried deformed baby? What do you see when you see a child starving and dying of AIDS? Why did your loving all powerful and infinitely intelligent god create AIDS and give it to that beautiful innocent baby in the first place? Why can god not create a cell free from cancer? Why are people born blind and deaf? Look at the horrors of the world and ask yourself what sick fuck would create all that tragedy then do fuck all about it? I've got a reason, AIDS evolved just like everything else did and cancers and deformities and mutations just happen. But maybe you're right, and god did create everything, but then he's a horrible evil bastard and personally I wouldn't want anything to do with him on principle alone.

Sin entered the world when Adam and Eve disobeyed God.  Then sickness entered the world because of man's disobedience, as well as death.  We are living in fallen world with disease and sickness and pain and suffering.  Jesus came to bring life and hope.  He even healed the sick, and still does.  Most hospitals were started by Christians/Catholics to help bring healing to those that are suffering.  Most charities are religious in nature because God places it in the heart of us to reach out and love others.  

Yes, this life if filled with pain and suffering.  We will all die.  We will all be accountable for God's law, even if we don't believe in it or not.   We can choose to believe whatever we want about Him.  We can deny Him.  We can be angry with Him because things seem so "unfair."  But God out of His great love for us sent His son, Jesus, to pay the price for our sins so we can be restored to Him and have eternal life and He wills that everyone come to Him. And who should we blame for all the sin, sickness, death, pain, abuse in the world?  Satan is the deceiver.  He is the one that is behind it all.  But in rejecting God man is taking sides with the one that is behind all of these atrocities.  We have a choice.  


So god decided to create cancer and AIDS because of Adam and Eve, so he punishes everybody who has ever lived because of them two plebs? If Jesus or god can cure the blind, why not cure blindness altogether? Why not cure all diseases? Why even make them in the first place? Why must everyone suffer? How can someone be so cruel and evil? He has the power to do everything, yet he does nothing? You claim he's all knowledgeable, but didn't foresee what people would do? Can you not see that only humans could create a being so repugnant as this god character? I honestly don't know whether you're trolling or not.

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February 19, 2014, 06:33:57 PM
 #92


If you understand evolution as you say you do then give me the one answer I have been looking for here.  Give me an example in the fossil record of how a fish became a dog or any kind changing into another kind.  I want just ONE fossil that proves this.  

Are you really requesting that we show you a fossil of a half dogfish? Can you show us one piece of evidence for god?

To look at a newborn baby and observe how beautifully he/she has been created is enough evidence for God that I will ever need, but that won't mean anything to most people here. Wink

What do you see when you look at a hideous miscarried deformed baby? What do you see when you see a child starving and dying of AIDS? Why did your loving all powerful and infinitely intelligent god create AIDS and give it to that beautiful innocent baby in the first place? Why can god not create a cell free from cancer? Why are people born blind and deaf? Look at the horrors of the world and ask yourself what sick fuck would create all that tragedy then do fuck all about it? I've got a reason, AIDS evolved just like everything else did and cancers and deformities and mutations just happen. But maybe you're right, and god did create everything, but then he's a horrible evil bastard and personally I wouldn't want anything to do with him on principle alone.

Sin entered the world when Adam and Eve disobeyed God.  Then sickness entered the world because of man's disobedience, as well as death.  We are living in fallen world with disease and sickness and pain and suffering.  Jesus came to bring life and hope.  He even healed the sick, and still does.  Most hospitals were started by Christians/Catholics to help bring healing to those that are suffering.  Most charities are religious in nature because God places it in the heart of us to reach out and love others.  

Yes, this life if filled with pain and suffering.  We will all die.  We will all be accountable for God's law, even if we don't believe in it or not.   We can choose to believe whatever we want about Him.  We can deny Him.  We can be angry with Him because things seem so "unfair."  But God out of His great love for us sent His son, Jesus, to pay the price for our sins so we can be restored to Him and have eternal life and He wills that everyone come to Him. And who should we blame for all the sin, sickness, death, pain, abuse in the world?  Satan is the deceiver.  He is the one that is behind it all.  But in rejecting God man is taking sides with the one that is behind all of these atrocities.  We have a choice.  


So god decided to create cancer and AIDS because of Adam and Eve, so he punishes everybody who has ever lived because of them two plebs? If Jesus or god can cure the blind, why not cure blindness altogether? Why not cure all diseases? Why even make them in the first place? Why must everyone suffer? How can someone be so cruel and evil? He has the power to do everything, yet he does nothing? You claim he's all knowledgeable, but didn't foresee what people would do? Can you not see that only humans could create a being so repugnant as this god character? I honestly don't know whether you're trolling or not.

I am not trolling.  I am very passionate about my faith as you can see.

But I will admit that your way of thinking is much more popular than mine.  If I was trying to win a popularity contest with my belief in creation as well as God I would be in huge trouble!  Cheesy

That said, I have contemplated how to best answer your accusations of the unfairness of God.  I would say the best thing to do is to take it up with Him.  We have all had questions as to His fairness, or lack thereof.  But for me it comes down to putting blame where blame is due and I am partially to blame in that I have made choices in my life that have gone against God's laws. Have I sinned against God?  Yes.  Do I deserve the punishment for that sin?  Yes.  Am I thankful for God's promise of forgiveness and grace and a hope of eternal life beyond this crappy world?  Definitely!  But many people in this world have no understanding of even the slightest need for God in their lives, or they just believe he does not exist at all.



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February 19, 2014, 06:42:40 PM
 #93


If you understand evolution as you say you do then give me the one answer I have been looking for here.  Give me an example in the fossil record of how a fish became a dog or any kind changing into another kind.  I want just ONE fossil that proves this.  

Are you really requesting that we show you a fossil of a half dogfish? Can you show us one piece of evidence for god?

To look at a newborn baby and observe how beautifully he/she has been created is enough evidence for God that I will ever need, but that won't mean anything to most people here. Wink

My point in wanting ONE fossil that shows how one kind has changed into another kind is to make the point that there is not solid observable evidence that supports the theory of evolution.  Therefore it takes "faith" to believe in it.

Your faith in evolution is not much different in my faith in creation.


Sorry but one "kind" as you call it (In science there is no "kind". It's a therm creationists made up) dosent turn in to another over night. Thats not what the evolutiontheorty teaches so you will never find it. Its a prosess that takes many many ears. All species are a transission from one species to another. Its an neverending prosses.
That is often the problem when you are debating people that are opposed to the theory.... They have no idea what the theory they oppose really is
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February 19, 2014, 06:45:51 PM
 #94


If you understand evolution as you say you do then give me the one answer I have been looking for here.  Give me an example in the fossil record of how a fish became a dog or any kind changing into another kind.  I want just ONE fossil that proves this.  

Are you really requesting that we show you a fossil of a half dogfish? Can you show us one piece of evidence for god?

To look at a newborn baby and observe how beautifully he/she has been created is enough evidence for God that I will ever need, but that won't mean anything to most people here. Wink

What do you see when you look at a hideous miscarried deformed baby? What do you see when you see a child starving and dying of AIDS? Why did your loving all powerful and infinitely intelligent god create AIDS and give it to that beautiful innocent baby in the first place? Why can god not create a cell free from cancer? Why are people born blind and deaf? Look at the horrors of the world and ask yourself what sick fuck would create all that tragedy then do fuck all about it? I've got a reason, AIDS evolved just like everything else did and cancers and deformities and mutations just happen. But maybe you're right, and god did create everything, but then he's a horrible evil bastard and personally I wouldn't want anything to do with him on principle alone.

Sin entered the world when Adam and Eve disobeyed God.  Then sickness entered the world because of man's disobedience, as well as death.  We are living in fallen world with disease and sickness and pain and suffering.  Jesus came to bring life and hope.  He even healed the sick, and still does.  Most hospitals were started by Christians/Catholics to help bring healing to those that are suffering.  Most charities are religious in nature because God places it in the heart of us to reach out and love others.  

Yes, this life if filled with pain and suffering.  We will all die.  We will all be accountable for God's law, even if we don't believe in it or not.   We can choose to believe whatever we want about Him.  We can deny Him.  We can be angry with Him because things seem so "unfair."  But God out of His great love for us sent His son, Jesus, to pay the price for our sins so we can be restored to Him and have eternal life and He wills that everyone come to Him. And who should we blame for all the sin, sickness, death, pain, abuse in the world?  Satan is the deceiver.  He is the one that is behind it all.  But in rejecting God man is taking sides with the one that is behind all of these atrocities.  We have a choice.  


So god decided to create cancer and AIDS because of Adam and Eve, so he punishes everybody who has ever lived because of them two plebs? If Jesus or god can cure the blind, why not cure blindness altogether? Why not cure all diseases? Why even make them in the first place? Why must everyone suffer? How can someone be so cruel and evil? He has the power to do everything, yet he does nothing? You claim he's all knowledgeable, but didn't foresee what people would do? Can you not see that only humans could create a being so repugnant as this god character? I honestly don't know whether you're trolling or not.

I am not trolling.  I am very passionate about my faith as you can see.

But I will admit that your way of thinking is much more popular than mine.  If I was trying to win a popularity contest with my belief in creation as well as God I would be in huge trouble!  Cheesy

That said, I have contemplated how to best answer your accusations of the unfairness of God.  I would say the best thing to do is to take it up with Him.  We have all had questions as to His fairness, or lack thereof.  But for me it comes down to putting blame where blame is due and I am partially to blame in that I have made choices in my life that have gone against God's laws. Have I sinned against God?  Yes.  Do I deserve the punishment for that sin?  Yes.  Am I thankful for God's promise of forgiveness and grace and a hope of eternal life beyond this crappy world?  Definitely!  But many people in this world have no understanding of even the slightest need for God in their lives, or they just believe he does not exist at all.




How do I take it up with him? If I ask I wont get any answers. Just silence which already speaks loud and clear. Do you not think all these answers are just excuses though? Where do all these answers come from? The bible or has god told you these personally? I'm sure you've just had these answers drilled into you by someone. I was raised a Catholic and went to all Catholic schools, but once you start to think for yourself it quickly becomes apparent that there's not a single piece of evidence for any gods whatsoever.

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February 19, 2014, 06:52:36 PM
 #95

Also, many don't seem to be aware what little genetic evolution is required to result in rather drastic differences. It takes only 1% generic difference to have two entirely different (genetically/mating incompatible species) that just share similarities upon closer inspection. It's the difference between a small ape and a fully developed human. Add 1% more difference (more advanced genome than ours) and one can only speculate what kind of massive intelligence potential such a lifeform could have compared to us. Take it a step further and allow for a full 10% difference in advanced genome, these levels would simply be way beyond our current comprehension. Einstein, Hawking, Tesla and alikes would be like mentally handicapped cockroaches compared to that.

I understand what you're saying, but in evolution there's no advancement, only change and adaptation, we are not superior or more advanced than a cockroach, we are different, and our intelligence may be an evolutionary disadvantage because we have the power to extinguish ourselves and cockroaches will still be here.

*ugh* what ?
Evolution = Advancement over time, where the term "advancement" also equals ability of survival in a dynamic environment (genetic fitness)

If you seriously think that were not more advanced than a cockroach, then you should revisit school (or get some education from scientists/teachers in general)
While I agree on the intelligence also having certain downsides, that is simply how life works : potentials and risks.
And while we're able to do great harm, our ability to adapt (in ways a cockroach could never do) also ensures our potantial for survival as a species, even after a full-blown global thermonuclear war. Nature doesn't care if 7 Billion humans live on the planet's surface or 50 Million survivors live a mile deep underground.

No, it's change over time, and only individuals with some characteristics survive.

You can dispute what I said by saying the complexity of organisms increases over time and this can be interpreted as advancement, but natural selection doesn't care for complexity.

And I don't think we're more advanced than any other animal or plant, we're just different, we have different capabilities.

The anthropocentric view is very common even amongst scientists and teachers, we all like to feel special.

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February 19, 2014, 06:56:14 PM
 #96



How do I take it up with him? If I ask I wont get any answers. Just silence which already speaks loud and clear. Do you not think all these answers are just excuses though? Where do all these answers come from? The bible or has god told you these personally? I'm sure you've just had these answers drilled into you by someone. I was raised a Catholic and went to all Catholic schools, but once you start to think for yourself it quickly becomes apparent that there's not a single piece of evidence for any gods whatsoever.

"Hearing God" is another entire discussion.  I admit that in my own life there have been many times when it felt like God was not there or not listening.  But I can tell you that if you sincerely keep asking He will respond.  He has made Himself know to me in many ways (reading the Bible, prayer, using others around me) but it is a spiritual journey.  I will pray that you will hear begin to hear Him more clearly though.  

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February 19, 2014, 07:03:00 PM
 #97


How do I take it up with him? If I ask I wont get any answers. Just silence which already speaks loud and clear. Do you not think all these answers are just excuses though? Where do all these answers come from? The bible or has god told you these personally? I'm sure you've just had these answers drilled into you by someone. I was raised a Catholic and went to all Catholic schools, but once you start to think for yourself it quickly becomes apparent that there's not a single piece of evidence for any gods whatsoever.

"Hearing God" is another entire discussion.  I admit that in my own life there have been many times when it felt like God was not there or not listening.  But I can tell you that if you sincerely keep asking He will respond.  He has made Himself know to me in many ways (reading the Bible, prayer, using others around me) but it is a spiritual journey.  I will pray that you will hear begin to hear Him more clearly though.  

Please don't waste your time on me. I never heard or felt him in the first place, I was just told he existed and I believed it because that's what naive children do. I also like the phrase one pair of hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer, so go do something useful or altruistic instead.

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February 19, 2014, 07:10:59 PM
 #98


How do I take it up with him? If I ask I wont get any answers. Just silence which already speaks loud and clear. Do you not think all these answers are just excuses though? Where do all these answers come from? The bible or has god told you these personally? I'm sure you've just had these answers drilled into you by someone. I was raised a Catholic and went to all Catholic schools, but once you start to think for yourself it quickly becomes apparent that there's not a single piece of evidence for any gods whatsoever.

"Hearing God" is another entire discussion.  I admit that in my own life there have been many times when it felt like God was not there or not listening.  But I can tell you that if you sincerely keep asking He will respond.  He has made Himself know to me in many ways (reading the Bible, prayer, using others around me) but it is a spiritual journey.  I will pray that you will hear begin to hear Him more clearly though.  

Please don't waste your time on me. I never heard or felt him in the first place, I was just told he existed and I believed it because that's what naive children do. I also like the phrase one pair of hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer, so go do something useful or altruistic instead.

Ah.  But James 5:16 says that the prayers of a righteous person are powerful and effective.  I guess this will be more of a test of how "righteous" I am then you are then. Wink  As for your point that you have moved beyond being a "naive" child, we have to come to faith like a "naive" child really.  The world around us thinks that they are just smarter than God.  It really is just pride and pride is considered the most dangerous sins of all, probably because with it no one will ever even come to God.  Why would they?  They think they know more than God and do not need Him.  Although we all need Him.  Some just won't realize that until it is too late.

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February 19, 2014, 07:28:58 PM
 #99


How do I take it up with him? If I ask I wont get any answers. Just silence which already speaks loud and clear. Do you not think all these answers are just excuses though? Where do all these answers come from? The bible or has god told you these personally? I'm sure you've just had these answers drilled into you by someone. I was raised a Catholic and went to all Catholic schools, but once you start to think for yourself it quickly becomes apparent that there's not a single piece of evidence for any gods whatsoever.

"Hearing God" is another entire discussion.  I admit that in my own life there have been many times when it felt like God was not there or not listening.  But I can tell you that if you sincerely keep asking He will respond.  He has made Himself know to me in many ways (reading the Bible, prayer, using others around me) but it is a spiritual journey.  I will pray that you will hear begin to hear Him more clearly though.  

Please don't waste your time on me. I never heard or felt him in the first place, I was just told he existed and I believed it because that's what naive children do. I also like the phrase one pair of hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer, so go do something useful or altruistic instead.

x
Ah.  But James 5:16 says that the prayers of a righteous person are powerful and effective.  I guess this will be more of a test of how "righteous" I am then you are then. Wink  As for your point that you have moved beyond being a "naive" child, we have to come to faith like a "naive" child really.  The world around us thinks that they are just smarter than God.  It really is just pride and pride is considered the most dangerous sins of all, probably because with it no one will ever even come to God.  Why would they?  They think they know more than God and do not need Him.  Although we all need Him.  Some just won't realize that until it is too late.

An old book is never a proof of anything, so quoting the bible will get you nowhere. It was written in a time when our brains were less developed and most people halisounated from too much mushrooms on a daily basis
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February 19, 2014, 07:31:17 PM
 #100


How do I take it up with him? If I ask I wont get any answers. Just silence which already speaks loud and clear. Do you not think all these answers are just excuses though? Where do all these answers come from? The bible or has god told you these personally? I'm sure you've just had these answers drilled into you by someone. I was raised a Catholic and went to all Catholic schools, but once you start to think for yourself it quickly becomes apparent that there's not a single piece of evidence for any gods whatsoever.

"Hearing God" is another entire discussion.  I admit that in my own life there have been many times when it felt like God was not there or not listening.  But I can tell you that if you sincerely keep asking He will respond.  He has made Himself know to me in many ways (reading the Bible, prayer, using others around me) but it is a spiritual journey.  I will pray that you will hear begin to hear Him more clearly though.  

Please don't waste your time on me. I never heard or felt him in the first place, I was just told he existed and I believed it because that's what naive children do. I also like the phrase one pair of hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer, so go do something useful or altruistic instead.

Ah.  But James 5:16 says that the prayers of a righteous person are powerful and effective.  I guess this will be more of a test of how "righteous" I am then you are then. Wink  As for your point that you have moved beyond being a "naive" child, we have to come to faith like a "naive" child really.  The world around us thinks that they are just smarter than God.  It really is just pride and pride is considered the most dangerous sins of all, probably because with it no one will ever even come to God.  Why would they?  They think they know more than God and do not need Him.  Although we all need Him.  Some just won't realize that until it is too late.

If there was a god I wouldn't think I was smarter than him/her/it, and I don't think anyone would, but I guess by default I'm smarter than something that doesn't exist to me. I'd also say we don't need him and some wont realise that until the end.

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