Bitcoin Forum
May 03, 2024, 05:16:54 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: [ANN] CatoCoin : The Next Generation of Masternode Coins with NextGen Technology  (Read 64213 times)
ttookk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 513


View Profile
July 22, 2018, 12:17:27 PM
 #161

(…)

So, let us get this straight?

You do not like patents because thy restrict your ability to take someone's original code published under the GNU General Public License and then incorporate that code into your code which you will sell or provide publicly or privately for your personal gain while choosing TO NOT publish your work product under the GNU General Public License because you do not want people to find out where the routines actually came from? is that correct?

In terms of 'sharing our personal views', please remember that our personal views are the same as over 24 million others developers working across 67 million repositories who have chosen to make their codebase's public under the GNU General Public License and share freely with anyone else who will adhere to the GNU General Public License.


Wow.

So, because I am critial of your approach, I automatically have malicious intent? Not exactly a professional answer. I have no intent to take your code (or pieces of it) and use it for my own personal gains. You can keep your insults.

By the way, did you write all the code you are using from scratch, or did you take code from other projects? Because, even if your premine is "incredibly low", I would still argue that this is a "personal gain" in some way. This would not exactly be in line with the views you expressed, would it. But I don't really want to go there, because I don't know and I don't care that much. Plus, generally, cheap shots are not my style.

Quote
(…)because you do not want people to find out where the routines actually came from? is that correct?

No, that is not "correct". You go look at Bcash and what Craig Wright and nChain are doing with their patents. Do you think that is a good idea? If you are in their corner, you can go fuck yourselves anyway.

But since you share the views of 24 million devs who use GNU-GPL, I guess you are not and you find it just as awful as most of us do.

Now, since you want the GNU-GPL and patents, here is a paragraph from the GNU-GPL:

Quote
Finally, any free program is threatened constantly by software patents. We wish to avoid the danger that redistributors of a free program will individually obtain patent licenses, in effect making the program proprietary. To prevent this, we have made it clear that any patent must be licensed for everyone's free use or not licensed at all.

Source:
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html

So basically, when you have GNU-GPL in place and are willing to follow it, you can't really prevent others from using your code, as long as they follow the GNU-GPL. Having a patent seems extremely redundant, since both (the patent and the GNU-GPL) are supposed to do the exact same thing: providing a legal framework which defines under which circumstances code may be used.

This leads me back to a part of my post you decided not to address:

Quote
From what you are writign above, it seems like you are trying to fight fire with fire. Fair enough, but that puts a lot of power in the hands of whoever holds the patent. Unless the holder sets up a legally binding contract which specifies under which circumstances the holder is willing to assert their power, I am out.

To put it a bit differently:

What exactly are you planning to enforce with the patent AND the GNU-GPL?

Why do you think you need both?

What are the conditions under which others are allowed to use your code?

How can we be sure that you will be true to your word?

And, probably the most complex, but most important point when it comes to blockchain tech:
What means do you have in place which prevent centralization around the patent holder in case of a dispute?

Let's take the Ethereum hard fork as an example: should something like that happen on your network, what would be your course of action? would you allow a hardfork? Would you try to prevent it?

Let me be clear here: I am absolutely in favor of giving credit where credit is due and paying content creators for their work. However, blockchain tech operates in a realm in which traditional payment structures are not easily applied, because they pose the danger of centralization via legal enforcement.
1714756614
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714756614

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714756614
Reply with quote  #2

1714756614
Report to moderator
1714756614
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714756614

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714756614
Reply with quote  #2

1714756614
Report to moderator
1714756614
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714756614

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714756614
Reply with quote  #2

1714756614
Report to moderator
The network tries to produce one block per 10 minutes. It does this by automatically adjusting how difficult it is to produce blocks.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1714756614
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1714756614

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1714756614
Reply with quote  #2

1714756614
Report to moderator
CatoCoin (OP)
Copper Member
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 207
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
July 22, 2018, 01:04:32 PM
 #162

To begin with you called patents a 'plague' - it our eyes that's not very professional if you want to start using that term. You made your position quite clear on your view of patents.

1. What exactly are you planning to enforce with the patent AND the GNU-GPL?

>>>>as stated right int he press release: "We've done this in order to assert our patent rights against redistributors who do not conform to the GPL license terms."

Why do you think you need both?
What are the conditions under which others are allowed to use your code?

>>>> as stated right int he press release: :conform to the GPL license terms".  We encourage everyone to uses our codebase. We just want them to conform to the same License that we did.

How can we be sure that you will be true to your word?

>>>> This is not really a question, because by conforming to the GPL license terms we are legally bound by the terms. We think that's pretty straight forward

And, probably the most complex, but most important point when it comes to blockchain tech:
What means do you have in place which prevent centralization around the patent holder in case of a dispute?

Let's take the Ethereum hard fork as an example: should something like that happen on your network, what would be your course of action? would you allow a hardfork? Would you try to prevent it?

>>>> No we would not UNLESS  the hard fork code did not conform to the GPL License terms


Let me be clear here: I am absolutely in favor of giving credit where credit is due and paying content creators for their work. However, blockchain tech operates in a realm in which traditional payment structures are not easily applied, because they pose the danger of centralization via legal enforcement.


>>>> I get what you're saying completely, what's important here to us is the protection of 'original thought IP from exploitation by commercial enterprises or those who lurk in the shadows' and ignore GPL license terms


>>>> I believe you asked about 'developing from scratch' and that answer is no.  We,  like most coin developers used exiting code bases and we make full disclosure of those codebases in our Help>About screen in the wallet and pay homage to them for their hard work.

Catocoin Core version v2.0.1.0-3bc4db3-dirty (32-bit)

Copyright (C) 2009-2017 The Bitcoin Core Developers

Copyright (C) 2014-2017 The Dash Core Developers

Copyright (C) 2015-2017 The PIVX Core Developers

Copyright (C) 2018-2019 The Awesome Catocoin Core Developers

ttookk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 513


View Profile
July 22, 2018, 01:59:05 PM
 #163

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. No ad hominems and stuff. Great! Let me state from the beginning that I don't assume malicious intent from your side. I just don't understand your reasoning.

Quote
To begin with you called patents a 'plague' - it our eyes that's not very professional if you want to start using that term. You made your position quite clear on your view of patents.

Well, I am not a professional, I am a private person. I don't have a business under which I operate here, I have little reason to be professional. You do on the other hand. I know this is unfair, but that's how it is Grin


It looks like all your answers boil down to "we want other users to conform to the GPL". Fair enough. I just don't understand what additional protection a patent serves in that case. Could you clear that up? Because as far as I am aware, the GPL is enforcable without a patent. Why do you need a patent on top of that?

Quote
"We've done this in order to assert our patent rights against redistributors who do not conform to the GPL license terms."

If they don't conform to the GPL, they are already breaking a contract and can be sanctioned. Or can't they?

I mean, that is why the GPL exists in the first place. You say so yourself:

Quote
his is not really a question, because by conforming to the GPL license terms we are legally bound by the terms. We think that's pretty straight forward

See, maybe I am wrong here, but from what I am seeing, the patent system and the GPL actually contradict each other in some terms. And in case of a legal dispute, I am pretty sure that a court would side with the patent side, due to it being a state sanctioned set of rules, while the GPL is not. I am admittedly no expert in this field, though.

Also, what I am seeing is an ecosystem in which the use of patents is extremely rare, as far as i know. This makes you an exception to the rule and puts you in the position explain your actions to your users.
thelionkingbtc
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3
Merit: 2


View Profile
July 22, 2018, 02:32:29 PM
 #164

~
I am not sure about how correct you are discussing, but the fact is most (or all) of crypto projects are open-sourced ones.
However, it doesn't mean that we all don't know where are original sources of breaking ideas, right?
We all know that bitcoin is the king, the start (almost like this) of crypto world.
Addtitionally, CatoCoin stated that the coin based on codes of others, Bitcoin, DASH, PIVX, and adjusted with their own breaking ideas, codes to make Catocoin source codes and lauched the project weeks ago.
Patent or without patent, it doesn't make sense (at least in my stance), but the CatoCoin team have done great works till now, honestly.
 Grin
CatoCoin (OP)
Copper Member
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 207
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
July 22, 2018, 02:33:32 PM
 #165

Ok, now we are getting somewhere. No ad hominems and stuff. Great! Let me state from the beginning that I don't assume malicious intent from your side. I just don't understand your reasoning.

Quote
To begin with you called patents a 'plague' - it our eyes that's not very professional if you want to start using that term. You made your position quite clear on your view of patents.

Well, I am not a professional, I am a private person. I don't have a business under which I operate here, I have little reason to be professional. You do on the other hand. I know this is unfair, but that's how it is Grin


It looks like all your answers boil down to "we want other users to conform to the GPL". Fair enough. I just don't understand what additional protection a patent serves in that case. Could you clear that up? Because as far as I am aware, the GPL is enforcable without a patent. Why do you need a patent on top of that?

Quote
"We've done this in order to assert our patent rights against redistributors who do not conform to the GPL license terms."

If they don't conform to the GPL, they are already breaking a contract and can be sanctioned. Or can't they?

I mean, that is why the GPL exists in the first place. You say so yourself:

Quote
his is not really a question, because by conforming to the GPL license terms we are legally bound by the terms. We think that's pretty straight forward

See, maybe I am wrong here, but from what I am seeing, the patent system and the GPL actually contradict each other in some terms. And in case of a legal dispute, I am pretty sure that a court would side with the patent side, due to it being a state sanctioned set of rules, while the GPL is not. I am admittedly no expert in this field, though.

Also, what I am seeing is an ecosystem in which the use of patents is extremely rare, as far as i know. This makes you an exception to the rule and puts you in the position explain your actions to your users.


here's an excellent article on the topic. They can co-exist but there are specific limits which we clearly understood before embarking on this path.

https://www.fenwick.com/FenwickDocuments/Patent_Rights.pdf

chimhoangyenvn
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 30
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 22, 2018, 03:11:24 PM
 #166

here's an excellent article on the topic. They can co-exist but there are specific limits which we clearly understood before embarking on this path.

https://www.fenwick.com/FenwickDocuments/Patent_Rights.pdf
Got it, CatoCoin.
This one might help to stop the serious discussion on CatoCoin Patent and why the project need this one.
ttookk
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 994
Merit: 513


View Profile
July 22, 2018, 06:19:40 PM
 #167


here's an excellent article on the topic. They can co-exist but there are specific limits which we clearly understood before embarking on this path.

https://www.fenwick.com/FenwickDocuments/Patent_Rights.pdf

Fair enough.

I'm still not convinced, though. I think the patent system as a whole is broken, especially when it comes to code, and not in line with the Cypherpunk ethos anyway. As someone who has been (actively) observing the blockchain space since early 2016, it is disheartening to see how the basic principles Bitcoin was built upon fell to the wayside. EOS and their ridiculous 21 block producers scheme is an example. Using patents – well, there's another one. I guess with the massive instream of users and money, something like that was bound to happen at some point.

But you do you.
As I said, I don't assume malicious intent from your side. But to me, you are not part of what I understand to be a cypherpunk ecosystem.

Quote


We the Cypherpunks are dedicated to building anonymous systems. We are defending our privacy with cryptography, with anonymous mail forwarding systems, with digital signatures, and with electronic money.

Cypherpunks write code. We know that someone has to write software to defend privacy, and since we can't get privacy unless we all do, we're going to write it. We publish our code so that our fellow Cypherpunks may practice and play with it. Our code is free for all to use, worldwide. We don't much care if you don't approve of the software we write. We know that software can't be destroyed and that a widely dispersed system can't be shut down.

(…)

For privacy to be widespread it must be part of a social contract. People must come and together deploy these systems for the common good. Privacy only extends so far as the cooperation of one's fellows in society. We the Cypherpunks seek your questions and your concerns and hope we may engage you so that we do not deceive ourselves. We will not, however, be moved out of our course because some may disagree with our goals.

Source: https://www.activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html

I'm out.
chimhoangyenvn
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 30
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 23, 2018, 01:44:22 AM
 #168

It is very interesting to watch the serious discussion between Catocoin dev and ttook.
The discussion gives me valuable information, something I have ever not known.
Personally, I will give the Catocoin project more time to show its potential off.
navillera011486
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 30
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 23, 2018, 03:18:51 AM
 #169

74 active CatoCoin masternodes for now.
The network has come closer to the point of scheduled automatic block-reward increase (when the 91st active masternode kick off).
navillera011486
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 30
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 23, 2018, 05:14:04 AM
 #170

CatoCoin network difficulty tends to rise again, it might surpass 1k soon.
http://explorer.catocoin.info/
CoinStalker
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 133
Merit: 10


View Profile
July 23, 2018, 01:25:39 PM
 #171

Turkish translation reserved, if needed again.
PS. Turkish topic page seems deleted

gLk1
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 25
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 23, 2018, 08:27:30 PM
 #172

The idea of a coin is good, but there are almost no buyers on the stock exchange. A sellers quite a lot
CatoCoin (OP)
Copper Member
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 207
Merit: 0


View Profile WWW
July 23, 2018, 11:51:40 PM
 #173

The idea of a coin is good, but there are almost no buyers on the stock exchange. A sellers quite a lot

Huh? Buy wall is three times the size of the sell wall

rough011486
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 30
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 24, 2018, 02:47:47 AM
 #174

To be honest, I bought Catocoin weeks ago when its total active masternodes were 45, and its price was around 35k satoshi.
Today, its price has been around 9k to 10k satoshi, which make me extremely dissapointed.
I wish the team can make something to help community, including investors.
chickenfacts
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 355
Merit: 10


View Profile
July 25, 2018, 01:50:53 AM
 #175

In total, volume of CatoCoin in Crypto Bridge exchange has been 1.4 BTC.
At the moment, the price of Catocoin is 9988 satoshi, which is very under valued, at least in my point of view.
In Discord channel, Catocoin dev announced lots of new good stuffs for community.
Someone who interested in and want to get almost real-time news, please join CatoCoin Discord channel.
yudi09
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134
Merit: 741


Rollbit - Crypto Futures


View Profile
July 25, 2018, 03:29:00 AM
 #176

I would like to give you breaking news from CatoCoin team, which you - of course - can get it by yourself from CatoCoin Discord channel.
The CatoCoin Shared Masternode Fee has been reduced to only 5%.
Who have interests should join Discord channel for more updated news.
why did the team not give the news about this? because this thread is also part of one of the catocoin community discussion places. thank you for doing the latest share about this project

R


▀▀▀▀▀▀▀██████▄▄
████████████████
▀▀▀▀█████▀▀▀█████
████████▌███▐████
▄▄▄▄█████▄▄▄█████
████████████████
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄██████▀▀
LLBIT
  CRYPTO   
FUTURES
 1,000x 
LEVERAGE
COMPETITIVE
    FEES    
 INSTANT 
EXECUTION
.
   TRADE NOW   
nhanmt
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 79
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 25, 2018, 12:51:25 PM
 #177

1.05 BTC in buy orders and 1655 CatoCoin available in sell orders.
Demands have been high.
Please don't sell your coins at low prices.
timlaitoi
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 71
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 25, 2018, 02:15:52 PM
 #178

Congratulations!
CatoCoin hit 14k satoshi around hours ago.
It's very positive signal that the coin has started its strong recovery.
pham42760
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 100
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 25, 2018, 03:00:50 PM
 #179

With sell orders set with very low amount, I guess flash pumps might occur from greedy, impatient investors.
hp162133
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 90
Merit: 0


View Profile
July 25, 2018, 03:31:11 PM
 #180

CatoCoin has been very under valued, over-sold ATM.
Please stop selling your CatoCoin at bottoms.
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!