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Author Topic: Posting guidelines for Computer Hardware section  (Read 264 times)
Steamtyme
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July 01, 2018, 09:05:48 AM
Merited by suchmoon (5), frodocooper (5), malevolent (3), hedgy73 (1), Spazzer (1)
 #1

[WTS] Posting guidelines for physical goods

Following these simple steps will give you the best chance at generating interest in your item. Failure to do so will create delays in finding a buyer and foster an environment of distrust.

Please list all relevant information in the OP this includes:
  • Description of item for sale
  • Asking Price and acceptable currency
  • Shipping- Where from, any restrictions, whether or not it is included in sale price
  • Methods of payment accepted- Standard practice is Forum Escrow, or Paypal Goods and Service is also generally accepted
  • Item condition

A picture is worth a 1000 words

What has come to be expected to avoid fraudulent sellers is photographic proof, you should have photos fit this format:
  • Clearly show the item for sale
  • Include a handwritten note containing a date stamp and your forum user name. [1]Including the hash of the latest Bitcoin block and its associated block height in the note will also verify that at that moment in time the goods are in the sellers posession
  • If there is hashrate related information screenshots are nice to include

Example:

I understand that with some ranks pictures do not show up. Post the link anyways as a higher rank member can quote you and the photos will then be displayed.

Things to avoid:
This is useful for both buyers and sellers, and contains practices considered red flags.
  • Creating a self-moderated topic for your sale- This applies to newer accounts, should you feel you are being trolled report the posts to moderator. Older accounts if you do self-moderate deleted posts should be quoted to remain transparent  
  • Do not create locked topics requesting PM's or communication via other platforms. This again is for transparency

After the sale
  • Update the thread title as either Sold, Closed, or something suitable
  • Post in the thread the outcome, this helps provide insight as to whether a valid trade transaction place
  • Lock the thread once finished, and updated. Once all relevant information has been shared there is no need to leave it open, as it may get bumped months later. Do not lock the topic if there is still a discussion/dispute ongoing as this can be seen as shady or untrustworthy behavior

[1] This is a more valid form of proof of possession, as I could take a picture with a date 6 months from now. Using this I could then post an ad, despite having sold the equipment months before. Of course the use of Escrow will help protect against these situations.



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Steamtyme
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July 01, 2018, 09:06:08 AM
 #2

Reserved for updates.

Edited: OP to include suggestion from Frodocooper, and to ad an after the sale section.

Steamtyme
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July 01, 2018, 09:06:16 AM
 #3

This is by no means perfect or complete. Feel free to suggest any edits or additions you would like.

I'm interested in suggestions from others on how someone can provide proof/validity to hosted machines?

I decided to do a post for this as I probably post most of these points as questions on shady ads, 10x a week, and see likely 10x more that others post on. Not that they always get read but it might make a nice sticky in the Computer Hardware section.


I don't really care if my post goes there or if someone creates a better formatted or more visually appealing post. I just feel that it would be a nice tool in the community policing itself.

frodocooper
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July 01, 2018, 01:59:22 PM
 #4

  • Include a handwritten note containing with a date stamp and your forum user name

Including the hash of the latest Bitcoin block and its associated block height in the note — in addition to the timestamp and forum user name — may add credence in proving that the said goods did exist and was in the possession of the seller at the time of that particular block.
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July 02, 2018, 01:34:53 AM
Merited by The Pharmacist (1)
 #5

I'm not surprised at all you would take it in a more technical direction for validity.

Is this inline with the information you are suggesting?
https://www.blockchain.com/en/btc/blocks

I don't see anything inherently wrong with that, it is really another timestamp to within approximately 10 minutes. For the most part I don't think it would be a necessary addition but it could be a nice follow up question if you don't trust the photos that have been provided. For instance say you come across a sale and then notice the same images in another sale thread, you could request this to validate the authentic seller.

I don't think I will add it in as a base guideline for ADS, unless the current format proves to be ineffective. If it does become necessary I would maybe only ask for the last 6 characters of the Hash, to keep the note clean.

Once I know if the link is the information you were suggesting I will find a place for it, maybe under  a "valid follow up questions" heading or something.

Thanks for the idea.




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July 03, 2018, 03:31:10 AM
Merited by suchmoon (5), Steamtyme (1)
 #6

It doesn't have to be from a specific blockchain explorer. The hash of the block itself is sufficient.

The rationale behind this is that there is no way to predict the hash of a particular block until that block itself has been mined. In this way, we know that a message containing the hash of a particular block could not have been created any earlier than the block itself. Consequently, the earliest possible time that the goods (with the accompanying message) could have been in existence is the time when that particular block was mined. Note, however, that this is only useful in showing proof of existence of the goods. It does not reliably show proof of ownership. The latter requires more robust methods of verification.

My preferred method of proving ownership of the goods is to conduct a video call using Signal. Forum PM would be used to initiate contact with the seller, to exchange Signal phone numbers, and to perform out-of-band key verification — i.e., verifying each other's Signal safety numbers — before initiating the video call. The goods must be clearly shown in the video call, together with a message containing the seller's forum user name. Since a video call takes place in real time, there would be no need for a timestamp. I would then prefer to limit all further correspondence with the seller to within Signal, as our communications would be protected by Signal's robust end-to-end encryption. (If the seller prefers to send pictures of the goods instead of showing the goods via a video call, then a message containing a timestamp and the hash of the latest Bitcoin block would be required to be shown alongside the goods.)
Steamtyme
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July 03, 2018, 03:46:13 PM
 #7

It doesn't have to be from a specific blockchain explorer.

Understood, just making sure I knew what you meant. I'll update OP later to include that as another method of verification.

Quote
The rationale behind this is that there is no way to predict the hash of a particular block until that block itself has been mined.

I was thinking on that and it makes sense. If someone was playing the long con game for whatever reason; they could take a bunch of photos of gear they owned at one point with different date stamps. Using those they could try and fake possession in the future.

Quote
My preferred method of proving ownership of the goods is to conduct a video call using Signal.

I'm unfamiliar with Signal, but it sounds like it's worked for you. I think that leaving some information in the sale thread is good. I like the idea of people announcing they have reached an arrangement for the sale, and adding in the end how the deal went. I'm not interested in people sharing all details of a sale, negotiating and transaction ID's aren't necessary unless there is a dispute.

Thanks again for the input, I'm glad your information about Signal and verification is near the top of the thread, I'm sure others will find it helpful as well.

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July 11, 2018, 02:50:27 AM
 #8

Still open to input.

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