Make a real ATM

[augustocroppo]

Bitcoin ATM is one of the most stupid idea I even came to know. Why are you concerned with something almost useless?

I have met many people buying person to person through localbitcoins. There is a big demand for exchanging cash for coins. The vast majority of people don't know how to install a download or set up an encrypted, backed up wallet. But they know what cash is, and want bitcoin for it. This market is very big.

Sure, I agree with you. There must a demand and the current Bitcoin ATMs certainly does the job. But the idea of an ATM for Bitcoin is just... Well... What is the point to withdraw fiat money from a BTC exchange machine if any ordinary ATM already does that?

Now, to buy BTC looks interesting, but it is still not completely secure and affordable. The process to obtain BTC from the machine rely in many point of failures. Moreover, why go to a machine to obtain BTC if a person can do whatever they want with fiat money? Again, no point to have all the hassle to find the machine, hope there is liquidity, them pay expensive fees and finally wait few minutes to have funds in BTC. If the goal is to buy something, all that can be avoided with a Paypal account or a credit card.

A Bitcoin ATM is a machine trying to solve a problem which has already being solved.

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[cbeast]

I was just thinking of a way someone could invest in bitcoin without actually owning any. Capital gains and losses from withdrawals would be reported on a yearly statement, just like a bank, but there wouldn't be a way to transmit the transaction outside the jurisdiction of the ATMs license.

Like DeathandTaxes said though, it would probably be treated like a security and highly regulated.

[augustocroppo]

some people do not have/want bank accounts

The only people which do not have bank accounts is the people which:

- Have money, but they could care less about use a bank account to hold their money.
- Do not have money, so no reason to have a bank account.

So, whatever they have money or not, they could care less to have BTC because:

- If they do not trust in bank accounts, why would they trust in computer software?
- If they do not have money, then they will certainly not have BTC.

There is not anyone begging to have bank accounts because they want to use ATMs. Have you ever heard about people protesting to have bank accounts? People protesting to use ATMs?

some people do not want to search listings on a localbitcoin website and arrange a meet up to get cash in hand
some people want to just walk upto a box in their neighbourhood unplanned and swap their bitcoin for banknotes any time they please, to then spend in a pub/bar.

Yeah, sure, but there is no point to do that when traditional ATM already does.

[tkbx]

The current "ATMs" that work more like exchanges or two-way vending machines are better in my opinion. Why would you want to pay for a service where you let a major target that's always connected to the internet hold on to your bitcoins instead of you?

[cbeast]

The current "ATMs" that work more like exchanges or two-way vending machines are better in my opinion. Why would you want to pay for a service where you let a major target that's always connected to the internet hold on to your bitcoins instead of you?

Actually nobody would hold your bitcoins. They would be locked in escrow. I had thought this would be a way to get around money laundering provisions as the customer would only be able to deposit and withdraw cash, but still benefit from Bitcoin market performance. It's not an exchange because the ATM operator would not hold the bitcoins either, only a part of a multisig key set. This is just a new concept that hasn't been explored. Someone like Coinbase would have the liquidity to operate this through market fluctuations.

I'm the first to admit this isn't a useful idea except from a regulatory perspective as there is almost no risk of using the bitcoins for transmitting money.

A useful idea for this is if the nLockTime feature was used, it could be an simple, easy to use self-serve trust fund.

[augustocroppo]

The current "ATMs" that work more like exchanges or two-way vending machines are better in my opinion. Why would you want to pay for a service where you let a major target that's always connected to the internet hold on to your bitcoins instead of you?

Actually nobody would hold your bitcoins. They would be locked in escrow. I had thought this would be a way to get around money laundering provisions as the customer would only be able to deposit and withdraw cash, but still benefit from Bitcoin market performance. It's not an exchange because the ATM operator would not hold the bitcoins either, only a part of a multisig key set. This is just a new concept that hasn't been explored. Someone like Coinbase would have the liquidity to operate this through market fluctuations.

I'm the first to admit this isn't a useful idea except from a regulatory perspective as there is almost no risk of using the bitcoins for transmitting money.

A useful idea for this is if the nLockTime feature was used, it could be an simple, easy to use self-serve trust fund.

OK, look like you are in lack of ideas. Let me give you one similar to an ATM machine.

Every airport should have a machine to people exchange their coins (the real ones, fiat money coins) for something like BTC. That could be very useful for people which do not want to carry coins from a currency to a place where that currency is not accepted. I know traditional money exchangers do not accept coins, so those people only have that expensive groceries machine to spend the coins. But sometimes people is already full of groceries when they reach the machines, so they do not want to buy more groceries. So there could be a machine which would buy their coins and sell something like BTC.

[cbeast]

The current "ATMs" that work more like exchanges or two-way vending machines are better in my opinion. Why would you want to pay for a service where you let a major target that's always connected to the internet hold on to your bitcoins instead of you?

Actually nobody would hold your bitcoins. They would be locked in escrow. I had thought this would be a way to get around money laundering provisions as the customer would only be able to deposit and withdraw cash, but still benefit from Bitcoin market performance. It's not an exchange because the ATM operator would not hold the bitcoins either, only a part of a multisig key set. This is just a new concept that hasn't been explored. Someone like Coinbase would have the liquidity to operate this through market fluctuations.

I'm the first to admit this isn't a useful idea except from a regulatory perspective as there is almost no risk of using the bitcoins for transmitting money.

A useful idea for this is if the nLockTime feature was used, it could be an simple, easy to use self-serve trust fund.

OK, look like you are in lack of ideas. Let me give you one similar to an ATM machine.

Every airport should have a machine to people exchange their coins (the real ones, fiat money coins) for something like BTC. That could be very useful for people which do not want to carry coins from a currency to a place where that currency is not accepted. I know traditional money exchangers do not accept coins, so those people only have that expensive groceries machine to spend the coins. But sometimes people is already full of groceries when they reach the machines, so they do not want to buy more groceries. So there could be a machine which would buy their coins and sell something like BTC.

That's a great idea, but you would still need the 20 million USD MSB and KYC AML compliance to handle only a small amount of loose change. A savings account doesn't need any more than a local SEC license.

I guess you don't like the idea that Bitcoin savings can be more profitable than saving your money in a bank.

[augustocroppo]

That's a great idea, but you would still need the 20 million USD MSB and KYC AML compliance to handle only a small amount of loose change. A savings account doesn't need any more than a local SEC license.

I guess you don't like the idea that Bitcoin savings can be more profitable than saving your money in a bank.

If the saving account was guaranteed by a contract, yes. However that is not what happens with BTC. Anyone holding BTC do not have any guarantee to receive interest over the amount hold. BTC holders rely on a forever optimistic market to increase their capital.

Think about my idea. Perhaps a company could create their own electronic cash (Airportcoins?) and use as unit of account to keep track of the deposited loose change. Them they could use that electronic cash to speculate in the exchange markets. That would be possible because there would be always people depositing loose change here and there around the world. People would only redeem the amount deposited after some time, providing the company with funds enough to leverage in the exchange markets. That could generate a margin of profit to allow the company pay back the same amount deposited by a customer.

[cbeast]

That's a great idea, but you would still need the 20 million USD MSB and KYC AML compliance to handle only a small amount of loose change. A savings account doesn't need any more than a local SEC license.

I guess you don't like the idea that Bitcoin savings can be more profitable than saving your money in a bank.

If the saving account was guaranteed by a contract, yes. However that is not what happens with BTC. Anyone holding BTC do not have any guarantee to receive interest over the amount hold. BTC holders rely on a forever optimistic market to increase their capital.

Think about my idea. Perhaps a company could create their own electronic cash (Airportcoins?) and use as unit of account to keep track of the deposited loose change. Them they could use that electronic cash to speculate in the exchange markets. That would be possible because there would be always people depositing loose change here and there around the world. People would only redeem the amount deposited after some time, providing the company with funds enough to leverage in the exchange markets. That could generate a margin of profit to allow the company pay back the same amount deposited by a customer.

That's a good idea. But now you are not even talking about Bitcoin. This would literally be a penny stock machine?