ThunderSheep
Member
 Offline
Activity: 88
Merit: 10
The sheep who walks through walls.
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June 15, 2014, 02:35:23 AM |
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No books, no accounts, no divs from Ken as promised. In fact he said the mining coins will go to the MSD and the rest will be used to fund company development. That part has been bothering me. Does anyone else feel like using the proceeds of mining equates to the shareholders paying Ken's fine for having sold them unregistered securities? |
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"In a nutshell, the network works like a distributed
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arousedrhino
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June 15, 2014, 03:53:09 AM |
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No books, no accounts, no divs from Ken as promised. In fact he said the mining coins will go to the MSD and the rest will be used to fund company development. That part has been bothering me. Does anyone else feel like using the proceeds of mining equates to the shareholders paying Ken's fine for having sold them unregistered securities? Well we all knew they were unregistered securities and then a shareholder complained to the MSD. Most if not all of us are unaccredited investors in the United States which is why the only way to sell shares to us is through unregistered securities. There are likely no profits yet and the only way for the company to attempt to stay afloat would be to pay the MSD fine and cooperate with them. I hate the no books, no accounts, and no dividends but now that this investigation has started and become a full investigation we the shareholders are not going to get any information from Ken until its over. Really unfortunate I mean we were getting very little information as it went along but its now completely dark. Maybe we could propose an audit, Ken seemed open to it a month or so ago, but now I bet his lawyer would advise against it given the MSD investigation. |
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Bargraphics
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June 15, 2014, 05:41:36 AM |
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Well we all knew they were unregistered securities and then a shareholder complained to the MSD. Most if not all of us are unaccredited investors in the United States which is why the only way to sell shares to us is through unregistered securities. There are likely no profits yet and the only way for the company to attempt to stay afloat would be to pay the MSD fine and cooperate with them.
I hate the no books, no accounts, and no dividends but now that this investigation has started and become a full investigation we the shareholders are not going to get any information from Ken until its over. Really unfortunate I mean we were getting very little information as it went along but its now completely dark.
Maybe we could propose an audit, Ken seemed open to it a month or so ago, but now I bet his lawyer would advise against it given the MSD investigation.
It's no longer an investigation.... http://www.sos.mo.gov/securities/orders/Order to Cease and Desist and Show Cause Why Restitution, Civil Penalties, and Costs Should Not Be Imposed http://freepdfhosting.com/0d53fc3f43.pdfKen has been found guilty after an investigation and has been ordered a cease and desist. He now gets a chance to defend himself against all of the penalties and restitution. Please don't sugar coat this as you may mislead "shareholders". If current "shareholders" want to stay in for whatever reason at least let them have all of the facts to do so. There are ways to collect money from the public legally by filling out certain paperwork and getting approved, Ken tried to circumvent the system by registering in belize and making it appear that everything was kosher. The biggest part of this that shareholders do not understand is there will never be "profit". When you lose 400+ coins on an exchange, get a "partial refund" on an NRE that doesn't produce anything, and then use all of the mining funds to pay back pre-orders that never materialized, you will always be "negative". |
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arousedrhino
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June 15, 2014, 06:06:22 AM |
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Well we all knew they were unregistered securities and then a shareholder complained to the MSD. Most if not all of us are unaccredited investors in the United States which is why the only way to sell shares to us is through unregistered securities. There are likely no profits yet and the only way for the company to attempt to stay afloat would be to pay the MSD fine and cooperate with them.
I hate the no books, no accounts, and no dividends but now that this investigation has started and become a full investigation we the shareholders are not going to get any information from Ken until its over. Really unfortunate I mean we were getting very little information as it went along but its now completely dark.
Maybe we could propose an audit, Ken seemed open to it a month or so ago, but now I bet his lawyer would advise against it given the MSD investigation.
It's no longer an investigation.... http://www.sos.mo.gov/securities/orders/Order to Cease and Desist and Show Cause Why Restitution, Civil Penalties, and Costs Should Not Be Imposed http://freepdfhosting.com/0d53fc3f43.pdfKen has been found guilty after an investigation and has been ordered a cease and desist. He now gets a chance to defend himself against all of the penalties and restitution. Please don't sugar coat this as you may mislead "shareholders". If current "shareholders" want to stay in for whatever reason at least let them have all of the facts to do so. There are ways to collect money from the public legally by filling out certain paperwork and getting approved, Ken tried to circumvent the system by registering in belize and making it appear that everything was kosher.The biggest part of this that shareholders do not understand is there will never be "profit". When you lose 400+ coins on an exchange, get a "partial refund" on an NRE that doesn't produce anything, and then use all of the mining funds to pay back pre-orders that never materialized, you will always be "negative". Bar, 1. How can you do that in the United States as is? There was the crowd funding law passed but that has not been implemented yet. I am genuinely curious because the only legal way I know of is through accredited investors even if we take away the whole Belize bs. If I wanted to crowd fund a startup today as a legal US company with shareholders how would I do that? 2. If the investigation is over why do you want people to continue to call them? They made a ruling which is just part of the investigation. Depending on how Ken reacts and the opinions they receive from shareholders the MSD will likely continue to look into the company and Ken even further, they don't just make the ruling and walk away from it hence why I am of the opinion the investigation is not over yet. |
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Bargraphics
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June 15, 2014, 06:17:32 AM |
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Bar,
1. How can you do that in the United States as is? There was the crowd funding law passed but that has not been implemented yet. I am genuinely curious because the only legal way I know of is through accredited investors even if we take away the whole Belize bs. If I wanted to crowd fund a startup today as a legal US company with shareholders how would I do that?
2. If the investigation is over why do you want people to continue to call them?
They made a ruling which is just part of the investigation. Depending on how Ken reacts and the opinions they receive from shareholders the MSD will likely continue to look into the company and Ken even further, they don't just make the ruling and walk away from it hence why I am of the opinion the investigation is not over yet.
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_placement - It might not be everything you want it to be but it's something for now until the crowd funding law is implemented. There's also likely a few other routes that can be taken depending on the situation. 2. The MSD asked shareholders to call them to provide information for when/if restitution is given (They have to know who to give it to). Now they are just figuring out how much money he owes to the state and to shareholders that want to opt out. |
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arousedrhino
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June 15, 2014, 05:04:04 PM |
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Bar,
1. How can you do that in the United States as is? There was the crowd funding law passed but that has not been implemented yet. I am genuinely curious because the only legal way I know of is through accredited investors even if we take away the whole Belize bs. If I wanted to crowd fund a startup today as a legal US company with shareholders how would I do that?
2. If the investigation is over why do you want people to continue to call them?
They made a ruling which is just part of the investigation. Depending on how Ken reacts and the opinions they receive from shareholders the MSD will likely continue to look into the company and Ken even further, they don't just make the ruling and walk away from it hence why I am of the opinion the investigation is not over yet.
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_placement - It might not be everything you want it to be but it's something for now until the crowd funding law is implemented. There's also likely a few other routes that can be taken depending on the situation. Wow, thats very interesting, I really wish I had known about that sooner. Thanks for proving me wrong. I guess we would have needed to limit the shareholders to 35 and actually have people with financial knowledge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_placement Under these exemptions, no more than 35 non-accredited investors may participate[2] in a private placement. In most cases, all investors must have sufficient financial knowledge and experience to be capable of evaluating the risks and merits of investing in a company.
2. The MSD asked shareholders to call them to provide information for when/if restitution is given (They have to know who to give it to). Now they are just figuring out how much money he owes to the state and to shareholders that want to opt out.
How do we know that the MSD will not come after shareholders as well? I feel that we as shareholders were complicit in buying the shares violating the Securities Act so given my small share count I have been staying on the sidelines rather than risk a personal legal battle with the MSD. That is whats holding me back from making any calls. Do you have any thoughts about that and have you spoken to a lawyer about this? I think there are likely other shareholders in the same boat as me. My investment at the time of investing would only have been $6k in USD. The lost opportunity cost is huge but from an MSD standpoint I only lost $6k and that would barely cover any lawyer legal fees if I had to personally defend myself. |
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JoTheKhan
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June 15, 2014, 06:26:44 PM |
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Bar,
1. How can you do that in the United States as is? There was the crowd funding law passed but that has not been implemented yet. I am genuinely curious because the only legal way I know of is through accredited investors even if we take away the whole Belize bs. If I wanted to crowd fund a startup today as a legal US company with shareholders how would I do that?
2. If the investigation is over why do you want people to continue to call them?
They made a ruling which is just part of the investigation. Depending on how Ken reacts and the opinions they receive from shareholders the MSD will likely continue to look into the company and Ken even further, they don't just make the ruling and walk away from it hence why I am of the opinion the investigation is not over yet.
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_placement - It might not be everything you want it to be but it's something for now until the crowd funding law is implemented. There's also likely a few other routes that can be taken depending on the situation. Wow, thats very interesting, I really wish I had known about that sooner. Thanks for proving me wrong. I guess we would have needed to limit the shareholders to 35 and actually have people with financial knowledge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_placement Under these exemptions, no more than 35 non-accredited investors may participate[2] in a private placement. In most cases, all investors must have sufficient financial knowledge and experience to be capable of evaluating the risks and merits of investing in a company.
2. The MSD asked shareholders to call them to provide information for when/if restitution is given (They have to know who to give it to). Now they are just figuring out how much money he owes to the state and to shareholders that want to opt out.
How do we know that the MSD will not come after shareholders as well? I feel that we as shareholders were complicit in buying the shares violating the Securities Act so given my small share count I have been staying on the sidelines rather than risk a personal legal battle with the MSD. That is whats holding me back from making any calls. Do you have any thoughts about that and have you spoken to a lawyer about this? I think there are likely other shareholders in the same boat as me. My investment at the time of investing would only have been $6k in USD. The lost opportunity cost is huge but from an MSD standpoint I only lost $6k and that would barely cover any lawyer legal fees if I had to personally defend myself. +1 I didn't put enough money into this investment to worry about legal issues and the costs that come along with them if the MSD points their eyes in my direction. It's not about letting Ken get away with it, but until I know I won't be hunted down I'd rather stay out of it. So definitely in help on this would be welcome. |
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Bargraphics
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June 15, 2014, 06:38:44 PM |
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How do we know that the MSD will not come after shareholders as well?
I feel that we as shareholders were complicit in buying the shares violating the Securities Act so given my small share count I have been staying on the sidelines rather than risk a personal legal battle with the MSD. That is whats holding me back from making any calls. Do you have any thoughts about that and have you spoken to a lawyer about this? I think there are likely other shareholders in the same boat as me. My investment at the time of investing would only have been $6k in USD. The lost opportunity cost is huge but from an MSD standpoint I only lost $6k and that would barely cover any lawyer legal fees if I had to personally defend myself.
I don't believe buying unregistered securities is illegal, only selling. If it is please point me to that as I would be interested in learning about it. You can call the MSD and not give your name or contact information but instead just talk and request information. Hell there are a ton of "free lawyer advice" lines and I'm sure one of them can answer your question. I've currently not spoken to a lawyer about this as I'm waiting to see how the MSD handles the restitution issue. |
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equipoise
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June 15, 2014, 06:45:52 PM
Last edit: June 15, 2014, 07:36:34 PM by equipoise |
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^Didn't you sold some of yours? Edit: Could this be applied to virtual shares holders? NOW THEREFORE, it is hereby ordered that Respondents, their agents, employees and
servants, and all other persons participating in or about to participate in the above-described
violations with knowledge of this Order are prohibited from violating or materially aiding in any
violation of Section 409.3-301, RSMo. (Cum. Supp. 2012), by offering or selling unregistered,
non-exempt securities;... Edit 2: Since CT is not a decentralized exchange and Ken has control over if the shares can be sold/traded or not I believe in that regard he is not following his order from the MSD.
Those shares are not Ken's, but to the holders, who could or could not be in the US. The exchange they are traded on is in Hong Kong. So what is the jurisdiction? Could someone call MSD and ask for plain English explanation of their order and could it be applied to holders out of US? Is someone going to create AskMSD account to collect the questions? Edit 3: by offering or selling unregistered Offering? So you are not allowed to even give away your virtual shares or donate them? Those "virtual shares" are just a contract between you and Ken. This "accredited investor" thing is so outdated (just an opinion) - we all saw what those "accredited investors" did a few years ago - any fines? |
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damiano
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1000
103 days, 21 hours and 10 minutes.
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June 15, 2014, 07:23:19 PM |
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Either way trading is still available so if anyone wants to dump their shares on CT they have that ability.
Or buy more, right? (for someone to 'dump' someone else needs to buy) Forgive me if I'm wrong but you seem awfully biased in you stated opinions. Why would anyone want to buy more? (besides Zum) |
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NotLambchop
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June 15, 2014, 07:36:12 PM |
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@damiano re. "who'd want to": Anyone thinking that Ken will be able to refund shareholders, even @ $.05/share, would want to. I'd check with the MSD, but the "only shareholders who bought directly from [insert IPO number here]" sounds like Ken's weird logic. All shares were issued by Ken, the fact that they have changed hands [to me] seems irrelevant.
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damiano
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1000
103 days, 21 hours and 10 minutes.
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June 15, 2014, 08:31:33 PM |
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@damiano re. "who'd want to": Anyone thinking that Ken will be able to refund shareholders, even @ $.05/share, would want to. I'd check with the MSD, but the "only shareholders who bought directly from [insert IPO number here]" sounds like Ken's weird logic. All shares were issued by Ken, the fact that they have changed hands [to me] seems irrelevant.
Like you, I don't think it matter's if they were puchased from the IPO or not. Quite a few of us bought shares on the assumption that we would get back .0025 BTC a share. Ken is responsible for all outstanding shares and I believe he would have to to a force buy back to at least the lower IPO price. .05/share is just a joke |
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JimmyJazz
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June 15, 2014, 09:07:56 PM |
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If there is to be a buy back it should be 0.0005 btc a share for any holding now.
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damiano
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1000
103 days, 21 hours and 10 minutes.
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June 15, 2014, 09:17:24 PM |
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If there is to be a buy back it should be 0.0005 btc a share for any holding now.
Ken would need about 5000 BTC @ 600 (estimate) or 3million usd :/ |
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LorenzoMoney
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June 15, 2014, 11:38:10 PM |
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BG is correct: Buying an unregistered security is not illegal. Selling an unregistered security is illegal. The reason there are securities laws is to protect naive, stupid, or uninformed investors from losing money due to overt and covert lying by those selling shares in their companies. We all took a risk in investing in VMC/AMC, but Ken did lie. The whole idea of having a government agency set about regulations for investment is to protect people like us from people like Ken Slaughter. How do we know that the MSD will not come after shareholders as well?
I feel that we as shareholders were complicit in buying the shares violating the Securities Act so given my small share count I have been staying on the sidelines rather than risk a personal legal battle with the MSD. That is whats holding me back from making any calls. Do you have any thoughts about that and have you spoken to a lawyer about this? I think there are likely other shareholders in the same boat as me. My investment at the time of investing would only have been $6k in USD. The lost opportunity cost is huge but from an MSD standpoint I only lost $6k and that would barely cover any lawyer legal fees if I had to personally defend myself.
I don't believe buying unregistered securities is illegal, only selling. If it is please point me to that as I would be interested in learning about it. You can call the MSD and not give your name or contact information but instead just talk and request information. Hell there are a ton of "free lawyer advice" lines and I'm sure one of them can answer your question. I've currently not spoken to a lawyer about this as I'm waiting to see how the MSD handles the restitution issue. |
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LorenzoMoney
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June 15, 2014, 11:45:03 PM |
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BG: It is still an investigation. Re-read the cease and desist. The office of the financial investigator, Scott Johnson scott.johnson@sos.mo.gov is still looking to get copies of correspondence from Ken to investors. The Cease and Desist order is not a final judgment. It is just the court's demand that Ken Slaughter stop trading and stop his illegal activity. It does not give a final decision on how much should be returned or compensated to though from whom Ken Slaughter stole. I have contacted MSD and am providng them with copies of emails in which Ken Slaughter made all sorts of promises to me. I have enough in the correspondence he wrote me to nail him to a wall. Earlier on, when Ken Slaughter needed money, he would write long emails to people. Luckily, I saved it all and it will all be forwarded to Mr. Johnson. I suggest that everyone who has early correspondence and promises from Ken Slaughter contact Mr. Johnson, also. LM Well we all knew they were unregistered securities and then a shareholder complained to the MSD. Most if not all of us are unaccredited investors in the United States which is why the only way to sell shares to us is through unregistered securities. There are likely no profits yet and the only way for the company to attempt to stay afloat would be to pay the MSD fine and cooperate with them.
I hate the no books, no accounts, and no dividends but now that this investigation has started and become a full investigation we the shareholders are not going to get any information from Ken until its over. Really unfortunate I mean we were getting very little information as it went along but its now completely dark.
Maybe we could propose an audit, Ken seemed open to it a month or so ago, but now I bet his lawyer would advise against it given the MSD investigation.
It's no longer an investigation.... http://www.sos.mo.gov/securities/orders/Order to Cease and Desist and Show Cause Why Restitution, Civil Penalties, and Costs Should Not Be Imposed http://freepdfhosting.com/0d53fc3f43.pdfKen has been found guilty after an investigation and has been ordered a cease and desist. He now gets a chance to defend himself against all of the penalties and restitution. Please don't sugar coat this as you may mislead "shareholders". If current "shareholders" want to stay in for whatever reason at least let them have all of the facts to do so. There are ways to collect money from the public legally by filling out certain paperwork and getting approved, Ken tried to circumvent the system by registering in belize and making it appear that everything was kosher. The biggest part of this that shareholders do not understand is there will never be "profit". When you lose 400+ coins on an exchange, get a "partial refund" on an NRE that doesn't produce anything, and then use all of the mining funds to pay back pre-orders that never materialized, you will always be "negative". |
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LorenzoMoney
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June 15, 2014, 11:58:54 PM |
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ZumZero, If you really are buying ActM shares now, you are doing something very, very, very stupid. I would be will to sell you all of my shares for .0008 a share. You must buy all of my shares at once. Contact me in PM if interested. Otherwise, and I have just recently read back postings for the past week, it is clear Ken Slaughter has lied to us all since the very beginning. Anyone who argues otherwise is just plain wrong. The overwhelming evidence for the past year is that even if Ken Slaughter had good intention to produce miners, doing so was beyond his skill and organizational level and he soon began lying to us all. L-M I will have the last laugh and won't rest until I own over 20% of all shares. You guys can all fuck off with your $2,000 rewards and SEC accounts and me, Ken and a select few sail off into the sunset to earn our fortunes in divs. I am getting PM's from shareholders who offer kind words and who inform me that they are presently increasing their ActM portfolio. Even ActM mods!  Who knows, by the time you lot get your buy back rewards in a years time, some of you may even make 1btc from selling your identities to the US Gov. OMG. Wake up and smell the ashes you muppets! ROFL!!!  |
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LorenzoMoney
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June 16, 2014, 12:07:12 AM |
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DTS: You are 100% acucrate. Ken has forgotten the people who were his friends and now sees us all as his enemies. SO be it. I am in the process of sending the financial investigators in Missouri more than enough information to prove that Ken Slaughter lied over and over again. If Ken Slaughter was a smart man instead of just a sleazy one, he would contact me and try to negotiate a price for my shares, since what he wrote to me earlier on, is very condemning. I suggest EVERYONE contact the investigators. One way of the other, Ken Slaughter career as a scammer is not going to end well for him. The speculation and posts in this thread are a joke.
Why the f*ck isn't Ken saying anything about whats going on?!
Ken is now in full "us vs them" mode where the customers and shareholders are enemies that threaten to take away Ken's right to our Bitcoin. |
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knybe
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June 16, 2014, 12:29:53 AM |
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Really just more of a token gesture; how do we go about getting a scammer tag on the kslaughter account?
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