Environmentalism

[FirstAscent]

The food chain. We are on top not because we want to be, but because we think, learn, rationalize, and most importantly, we have the intellect to ask questions and answer them, which leads to the manipulation of the world around us that improves our quality of life.

At the expense of exploiting the environment which sustains us. When the pace of technology outpaces the natural compensatory systems of the biosphere which sustains us, then we find ourselves in our current unfortunate situation.

This is the belief and rationalization that I believe the ruling elites have. They consider non-thinking humans as beasts, and people who will not use their intelligence are no better than animals who do not have intelligence. Such people, according to them, are "beasts of burden and steaks on the table by choice and consent".

An excellent summary of the half assed thought which got us into this bad situation. Shelve the the Bible next to Grimm's Fairy Tales and work towards thinking about sustainability, and the complex interactions of the ecosystems which are not endlessly bountiful if abused. Do you know how many years it took the Earth to produce one day's usage of oil? And most importantly, ask yourself why the numerous libertarian think tanks behind the denialism industry (first tobacco, then climate change), engage in such deceptive propaganda (the Oregon Institute petition, etc.). Answer: it's because they can't sell the goals of libertarianism itself (no regulations) as being effective methods to address these larger issues, so they instead try to manufacture the doubt that such problems even exist.

[1715070759]

1715070759

[1715070759]

1715070759

[1715070759]

1715070759

[1715070759]

1715070759

[1715070759]

1715070759

[1715070759]

1715070759

[Bind]

The food chain. We are on top not because we want to be, but because we think, learn, rationalize, and most importantly, we have the intellect to ask questions and answer them, which leads to the manipulation of the world around us that improves our quality of life.

At the expense of exploiting the environment which sustains us. When the pace of technology outpaces the natural compensatory systems of the biosphere which sustains us, then we find ourselves in our current unfortunate situation.

This is the belief and rationalization that I believe the ruling elites have. They consider non-thinking humans as beasts, and people who will not use their intelligence are no better than animals who do not have intelligence. Such people, according to them, are "beasts of burden and steaks on the table by choice and consent".

An excellent summary of the half assed thought which got us into this bad situation. Shelve the the Bible next to Grimm's Fairy Tales and work towards thinking about sustainability, and the complex interactions of the ecosystems which are not endlessly bountiful if abused. Do you know how many years it took the Earth to produce one day's usage of oil? And most importantly, ask yourself why the numerous libertarian think tanks behind the denialism industry (first tobacco, then climate change), engage in such deceptive propaganda (the Oregon Institute petition, etc.). Answer: it's because they can't sell the goals of libertarianism itself (no regulations) as being effective methods to address these larger issues, so they instead try to manufacture the doubt that such problems even exist.

you will get no arguement from me about the preservation of our planet and its resources, but the problem is so many in think tanks and governments concerned with globablism at any cost, bastardize true sustainability in their goals of world domination in the name of humanity, the enviroment and sustainability.

ANY farmer on the face of the earth has been taught true sustainability that has been handed down from generation to generation. They go to extreme lengths for this purpose because they know the relation of our survival to the natural worlds ecosystems.

What you are talking about is corporate interests and externalities they do not want to deal with that need to be stopped. All they care about is their corporate bonuses and protection of investors. Everything else is secondary. This needs to change.

I have done alot of research about global warming and the earth is indeed heating up. The cause is increased sun activity, the sun is heating up, the solar system is heating up, and other planets are heating up. Certainly an arguement can be made that we add to the problem here on earth, but I have seen no evidence we have caused the problem. All they do is show the temp and co2 stats and make a huge jump that we are the cause. It is pure supposition and conjecture, and I believe the ruling elite thave created this, use it and abuse it for their own nefarious purposes of creating a worker population of enslaved subjects to serve them. There are just as many, if not more scientists who follow the provable facts of our solar system heating up than the supposition and conjecture that we are the cause of the earth heating up, but you wont see that in the media, and if you do its blasted by the very insidious influences trying to enslave us.

its the age-old thesis, antithesis, synthesis hegelian dialectic where they have an agenda, then they give you a problem to create public outcry and fear, then give you their pre-packaged solution. You always lose out. You always lose freedom, liberty, and wealth from it.

[The Script]

The food chain. We are on top not because we want to be, but because we think, learn, rationalize, and most importantly, we have the intellect to ask questions and answer them, which leads to the manipulation of the world around us that improves our quality of life.

At the expense of exploiting the environment which sustains us. When the pace of technology outpaces the natural compensatory systems of the biosphere which sustains us, then we find ourselves in our current unfortunate situation.

This is the belief and rationalization that I believe the ruling elites have. They consider non-thinking humans as beasts, and people who will not use their intelligence are no better than animals who do not have intelligence. Such people, according to them, are "beasts of burden and steaks on the table by choice and consent".

An excellent summary of the half assed thought which got us into this bad situation. Shelve the the Bible next to Grimm's Fairy Tales and work towards thinking about sustainability, and the complex interactions of the ecosystems which are not endlessly bountiful if abused. Do you know how many years it took the Earth to produce one day's usage of oil? And most importantly, ask yourself why the numerous libertarian think tanks behind the denialism industry (first tobacco, then climate change), engage in such deceptive propaganda (the Oregon Institute petition, etc.). Answer: it's because they can't sell the goals of libertarianism itself (no regulations) as being effective methods to address these larger issues, so they instead try to manufacture the doubt that such problems even exist.

you will get no arguement from me about the preservation of our planet and its resources, but the problem is so many in think tanks and governments concerned with globablism at any cost, bastardize true sustainability in their goals of world domination in the name of humanity, the enviroment and sustainability.

ANY farmer on the face of the earth has been taught true sustainability that has been handed down from generation to generation. They go to extreme lengths for this purpose because they know the relation of our survival to the natural worlds ecosystems.

What you are talking about is corporate interests and externalities they do not want to deal with that need to be stopped. All they care about is their corporate bonuses and protection of investors. Everything else is secondary. This needs to change.

I have done alot of research about global warming and the earth is indeed heating up. The cause is increased sun activity, the sun is heating up, the solar system is heating up, and other planets are heating up. Certainly an arguement can be made that we add to the problem here on earth, but I have seen no evidence we have caused the problem. All they do is show the temp and co2 stats and make a huge jump that we are the cause. It is pure supposition and conjecture, and I believe the ruling elite thave created this, use it and abuse it for their own nefarious purposes of creating a worker population of enslaved subjects to serve them. There are just as many, if not more scientists who follow the provable facts of our solar system heating up than the supposition and conjecture that we are the cause of the earth heating up, but you wont see that in the media, and if you do its blasted by the very insidious influences trying to enslave us.

its the age-old thesis, antithesis, synthesis hegelian dialectic where they have an agenda, then they give you a problem to create public outcry and fear, then give you their pre-packaged solution. You always lose out. You always lose freedom, liberty, and wealth from it.

In b4 FirstAscent's "brown-lasher" rant.

Great post, though Bind.  Can you point me to some resources on the increased solar and sun activity causing global warming?  Thanks.

[Bind]

Can you point me to some resources on the increased solar and sun activity causing global warming?

I first heard about it about a decade ago when NASA started publishing documents concerning information gleaned from their probes into different parts of the solar system. Shortly thereafter, alot of disappeared from the media and websites. Recently it has made a return so I am guessing to many people are finding ut about it for them to stifle it.

For decades, scientists with dissenting opinions have been marginalized and their careers ruined becasue they did not go along to get along with the international "consensus" of global warming, even when they were there TO make the consensus, specifically those who were actually a part of the globalist-backed IPCC juggernaught.

Their dissenting opinions have been altered and in some cases completely deleted from IPCC published documentation and consensus.

here are some links... it isnt a comprehensive list as I have have a few reformats since I started looking into it, so its best to use the google and search key terms.

Solar System Heating Up:
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/odyssey/newsroom/pressreleases/20031208a.html
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/newsroom/20050920a.html
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v428/n6985/abs/nature02470.html
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2002/pluto.html
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200607/s1697309.htm
http://www.biocab.org/Cosmic_Rays_Graph.html
http://www.biocab.org/Global_Warming.html
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1978ApJ...223..589V
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=12353
http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/object/index.cfm?fobjectid=33618
http://www.livescience.com/1349-sun-blamed-warming-earth-worlds.html
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-other-planets-solar-system.htm
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5086

IPCC Fraud and Coercion:
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1245636/Glacier-scientists-says-knew-data-verified.html
http://www.thegwpf.org/international-news/459-new-documents-show-ipcc-ignored-doubts-about-himalayan-glacier-scare.html
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/20100205/india-ipcc-un-climate-change-global-warming.htm
http://www.larouchepac.com/node/12823
http://www.larouchepac.com/node/13241
http://briefingroom.typepad.com/the_briefing_room/2009/12/ipcc-peer-review-tantamount-to-fraud-ipcc-official-admits.html

List of scientists opposing the mainstream assessment of global warming

Climate Momentum Shifting: Prominent Scientists Reverse Belief in Man-made Global Warming - Now Skeptics

Documantary Movie: The Great Global Warming Swindle

According to the above documantary: The sun is heating up the earth, causing the oceans to release Co2. There is a time lag between the temp increase and the rise of Co2 caused by the sheer volume of the worlds oceans which takes longer to heat up that volume of water to release the Co2. Remember the separated graphs in Al Gores Inconvenient truth that made it look like Co2 was causing global warming? They never did a layover of the graphs that would have shown this time lag more accurately. Why? If humans and Co2 were causing global warming, the Co2 would be appearing before the temerature changes. That is not the case. The temp changes appear before the Co2 increase according to ice core sampling and testing.  Additionally, if you track earth temp to solar activity history, you will see an even more direct relationship with much less time-lag than you have with temp-to-Co2. No global warming proponents have debunked the ice core sampling and testing to my knowledge. They are ignoring it like it does not even exist. They just keep pushing the man-made global warming issue. The issue gets no media attention either. Wonder why.

Then we can take a closer look at the sustainability movement. An affectionate term for UN Agenda 21. Yes it's real and its right in your local town or municipality.

[Boussac]

Answer: it's because they can't sell the goals of libertarianism itself (no regulations) as being effective methods to address these larger issues, so they instead try to manufacture the doubt that such problems even exist.

+1
When denialism is applied to climate change it is ignoring the simple fact that bad things like global warming may result from multiple causes.

Libertarian fundamentalists are saying something like ohh they are lots of car accidents that happen in that curve because people are speeding but we will not let you enforce the speed limit until you straighten that road.

[FirstAscent]

I have done alot of research about global warming and the earth is indeed heating up. The cause is increased sun activity, the sun is heating up, the solar system is heating up, and other planets are heating up.

Sadly, you've been a victim of the very think tanks I mentioned. Stop reading the 'science' newsletters being written by the very think tanks I mentioned. Science is placed in quotes above because you're not reading the science journals. Cite your sources, and we can continue.

EDIT: Oh, I see you did post some links. Sorry, I didn't see those.

[FirstAscent]

Are all of you familiar with Frederick Seitz?

[FirstAscent]

Ok, I've looked at quite a few of your links. A lot of what you're saying is based on the premise that CO2 follows warming by the sun.

Take a hard look at this graph which you provided: http://www.biocab.org/GWMA-002_op_987x740.jpg

Please try and explain it to me as best you understand it. I'm not asking you because I don't understand it. I want your interpretation of it.

Now, you may accuse me of performing biased research by selectively choosing to find science which backs up my claim, however, I have plenty of methods of demonstrating to you that my research is nowhere near as biased as yours. I suggest, while engaging in your own research, you look hard at the funding sources for a lot of the material you're digging up. Look hard at the political agenda of those who are behind the information you're researching.

Are you familiar with Milankovich cycles?

I have done alot of research about global warming and the earth is indeed heating up.

So you're in agreement with me that Global Warming is happening - just not the cause. Here's another test to determine the integrity of the programs you're seeking information from: are they explaining to you what the effects of Global Warming are? Let's say a number of the literature you've read or the number of the global warming documentaries you've watched concede that Global Warming is happening (regardless of cause), then, if they're comprehensive and their goal is to engage in real science, as opposed to simply furthering the agenda that Global Warming is not anthropogenic, then it stands to reason that they would have no reason to conveniently not address what the effects of Global Warming are, regardless of cause. So, my test of the unbiased quality of the research you're absorbing, is to ask you how much information you've gleaned along the way regarding the effects of Global Warming.

Be prepared for a long debate.

[Elwar]

Call me when the solution to the environment is NOT socialism.

[FirstAscent]

Call me when the solution to the environment is NOT socialism.

Thank you for pointing out the deficiencies of your approach: i.e. you offer no solution.

A more rational approach involves people asking: "what are all the problems and how do they interrelate, and what can we do to address these problems?" Rather than insisting on a particular political ideology to solve the problem, why don't we seek to understand the problem in all its finer nuances, and then see what can be done. That's a better approach.

[FirstAscent]

Solar System Heating Up:

As time permits, all your links can pretty much be shown to be lacking in substance, full of holes and inconsistencies, or even better, shown that they are in fact arguing against your theory. However, let's start with just a few. How about this one:

http://www.livescience.com/1349-sun-blamed-warming-earth-worlds.html

Rather than expend the time myself to explain the problems inherent in how this article might support your theory, why don't you just read the article yourself, as it casts some pretty heavy skepticism on your preferred theory that solar radiation is the cause of our planet's global warming.

Now on to this one:

http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-other-planets-solar-system.htm

Read the article itself, and you'll see that it's actually debunking the theory you're promoting. And while you're there, take a look at the solar irradiance chart provided. You might want to notice how the solar irradiance is actually declining for the period in which claims are made that some (not all) of the solar system's planets are undergoing warming.

By the way, thanks for the links on the theory of the solar system heating up - they pretty much save me the time in collecting articles myself to disprove your point, because the articles you posted do it so well.

[The Script]

Solar System Heating Up:

As time permits, all your links can pretty much be shown to be lacking in substance, full of holes and inconsistencies, or even better, shown that they are in fact arguing against your theory. However, let's start with just a few. How about this one:

http://www.livescience.com/1349-sun-blamed-warming-earth-worlds.html

Rather than expend the time myself to explain the problems inherent in how this article might support your theory, why don't you just read the article yourself, as it casts some pretty heavy skepticism on your preferred theory that solar radiation is the cause of our planet's global warming.

Now on to this one:

http://www.livescience.com/1349-sun-blamed-warming-earth-worlds.html

Read the article itself, and you'll see that it's actually debunking the theory you're promoting. And while you're there, take a look at the solar irradiance chart provided. You might want to notice how the solar irradiance is actually declining for the period in which claims are made that some (not all) of the solar system's planets are undergoing warming.

By the way, thanks for the links on the theory of the solar system heating up - they pretty much save me the time in collecting articles myself to disprove your point, because the articles you posted do it so well.

Just FYI, those are the same articles.  They do seem to indicate that the sun isn't the main cause behind earth's warming, though.

[FirstAscent]

Just FYI, those are the same articles.  They do seem to indicate that the sun isn't the main cause behind earth's warming, though.

Fixed it. The second referenced article is now the article that I meant: http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-other-planets-solar-system.htm

[Bind]

the sun is heating up.

its causing the solar system and other planets to heat up on the same scale the earth is heating up.

i am no scientist, but i know if i make a fire in the fireplace, anything in that room heats up as the fireplace heats up.

the solar system is a room and the sun is a fireplace, and the earth is in that room, as are all the other planets that are being heated up.

everything in it will heat up if the sun heats up.

i dont need to debate it. Its irrefutable fact as far as I am concerned, which is alot more evidence than the man-made global warming proponents have when they say the earth is heating up + there is more Co2 = man must be heating up the earth.

case closed as far as I am concerned.

it is "settled science".

but hey if you have anything more than supposition and conjecture, feel free to post it. I am sure some progressive pantywaste will listen.

[Elwar]

Call me when the solution to the environment is NOT socialism.

Thank you for pointing out the deficiencies of your approach: i.e. you offer no solution.

The solution lies in property rights.

But that does not fit into the game plan of "what can we use to get people to accept socialism..."

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

Nobody has commented on the CLOUD experiment so far? http://www.forbes.com/sites/warrenmeyer/2011/08/25/did-cloud-just-rain-on-the-global-warming-parade/

Scientists in CERN have confirmed that cosmic rays can seed clouds. The more cosmic rays hitting the Earth, the more clouds, the colder the planet gets. And vice-versa. And, yes, the main driver on the amount of cosmic rays that hit the Earth is the Sun's magnetic field. The stronger it gets, the more cosmic rays it repeals.

So, yeah, who would guess, it seems the sun is probably more important to the climate than our car's exhausts...

[FirstAscent]

Call me when the solution to the environment is NOT socialism.

Thank you for pointing out the deficiencies of your approach: i.e. you offer no solution.

The solution lies in property rights.

But that does not fit into the game plan of "what can we use to get people to accept socialism..."

Stop talking about socialism. Seriously. And I don't really give a rat's ass about your pet theory of property rights. What I do care about is discussing environmental issues, the science behind it, who here actually understands it in detail, and what the solutions are. If you want to share how property rights are a solution, the first thing you need to do is demonstrate an understanding of the problems. Can you do that?

[FirstAscent]

the sun is heating up.

its causing the solar system and other planets to heat up on the same scale the earth is heating up.

i am no scientist, but i know if i make a fire in the fireplace, anything in that room heats up as the fireplace heats up.

the solar system is a room and the sun is a fireplace, and the earth is in that room, as are all the other planets that are being heated up.

everything in it will heat up if the sun heats up.

i dont need to debate it. Its irrefutable fact as far as I am concerned, which is alot more evidence than the man-made global warming proponents have when they say the earth is heating up + there is more Co2 = man must be heating up the earth.

case closed as far as I am concerned.

it is "settled science".

but hey if you have anything more than supposition and conjecture, feel free to post it. I am sure some progressive pantywaste will listen.

It's hard to hear the clarity and strength of your arguments when your head is in the sand.

Take a hard look at this graph which you provided: http://www.biocab.org/GWMA-002_op_987x740.jpg

Please try and explain it to me as best you understand it. I'm not asking you because I don't understand it. I want your interpretation of it.

[FirstAscent]

Nobody has commented on the CLOUD experiment so far? http://www.forbes.com/sites/warrenmeyer/2011/08/25/did-cloud-just-rain-on-the-global-warming-parade/

Scientists in CERN have confirmed that cosmic rays can seed clouds. The more cosmic rays hitting the Earth, the more clouds, the colder the planet gets. And vice-versa. And, yes, the main driver on the amount of cosmic rays that hit the Earth is the Sun's magnetic field. The stronger it gets, the more cosmic rays it repeals.

So, yeah, who would guess, it seems the sun is probably more important to the climate than our car's exhausts...

Did you know that Forbes has demonstrated itself to be one of the brownlashers based on the selective reporting they do on the subject of climate change. It all stands to reason, when you stop and take a look at their readership. They're not exactly science people, you know.

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

It's a CERN experiment they're talking about. Which confirms the cosmic ray theory of a guy named Henrik Svensmark. At least direct your Ad Hominem to the appropriate target.