Environmentalism

[FirstAscent]

It's a CERN experiment they're talking about. Which confirms the cosmic ray theory of a guy named Henrik Svensmark. At least direct your Ad Hominem to the appropriate target.

No, you don't understand. There are thousands of experiments, studies, etc. out there. In general, a publication like Forbes will only publish the results of a study which may cast doubt on Global Warming. If 25 out of a 1,000 studies cast doubt, then before the study has undergone a healthy peer review, publications like Forbes will happily publish an article on such a study, but will, in general, not publish articles on the other 975 studies which lend strength to anthropogenic global warming.

The first question you want to ask yourself, is how do you search out your information on climate change?

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[Elwar]

And I don't really give a rat's ass about your pet theory of property rights. What I do care about is ... what the solutions are.

Then you do not give a rat's ass about what the solutions are.

If you want to share how property rights are a solution, the first thing you need to do is demonstrate an understanding of the problems. Can you do that?

The problems are corporations being allowed to pollute our environment under the protection of our very own government.

Brief history lesson.

Back in the day when property rights were actually followed and pollution just started to kick in people started going after these polluters that were encroaching on their property rights.

This was also back in the day where you called a private detective to solve your crime issues and not the government (remember the old PI movies?). Just as there were private detectives
that would hunt down murderers or thieves, there were private detectives that would hunt down the source of pollution. They would find the source, the land owner would sue the company
and the company owner would be prosecuted rightfully for property rights violations and the property owner would be compensated.

Around this time, pollution detectives were starting to catch on getting more and more popular.

The companies that were polluting did not like this one bit. How could they produce anything with no pollution? So they went to their friendly government officials to save them from these
law suits.

The government stepped in and decided to create "standards" and "guidelines" for pollution which essentially made it so that you could not sue a company if they were adhering to these guidelines
and the fines paid by the companies would go to the government to do with as they pleased. A nice little quid pro quo between corporations and government.

The private pollution detectives fell by the wayside and an industry was destroyed. The EPA became the protector of polluters and we have what we have now.


So, when you say you do not want to hear about property rights and you want solutions...you are basically saying that you only want to hear the solution that best fits your social agenda.

[FirstAscent]

So, when you say you do not want to hear about property rights and you want solutions...you are basically saying that you only want to hear the solution that best fits your social agenda.

Why do all you guys think that we have a social agenda? Very strange. I am so limited on time right now, but I'd like to say that you need to first understand what environmental problems exist before you can even begin to qualify your cute method as being effective. For example, demonstrate how your method addresses trophic cascades.

[Elwar]

Why do all you guys think that we have a social agenda?

Because you do.

[FirstAscent]

Why do all you guys think that we have a social agenda?

Because you do.

Whatever. Actually, what I want is protection for the environment. That requires understanding the environment. Now, how does your system address trophic cascades?

[Elwar]

For example, demonstrate how your method addresses trophic cascades.

Depends on how the property owner wants to treat the species on his land/waterway. Anyone introducing something that disrupts the wildlife on the person's land/waterway would be held responsible for the introduction of a harmful species.

[FirstAscent]

For example, demonstrate how your method addresses trophic cascades.

Depends on how the property owner wants to treat the species on his land/waterway.

No, it doesn't depend on what the property owner wants. It depends on an area that deals with many property owners, many of which don't care, nor even know the ramifications. If you don't know, and your neighbor doesn't know, then nothing gets properly dealt with. Every property owner can't sue every other property owner. And besides, they won't, because half of them don't know they should sue, or don't care, resulting in an inconsistent application of what needs to be done - and that doesn't effectively deal with the problem consistently.

Now, tell me, how would your system deal with the near decimation of the blue whale population that occurred in the mid twentieth century?

[Elwar]

Now, tell me, how would your system deal with the near decimation of the blue whale population that occurred in the mid twentieth century?

What would happen if someone came into your back yard and killed your dog? Would you have legal ramifications?

What if someone came into your waterway and killed one of your whales?

[FirstAscent]

Now, tell me, how would your system deal with the near decimation of the blue whale population that occurred in the mid twentieth century?

What would happen if someone came into your back yard and killed your dog? Would you have legal ramifications?

Blue whales will never be in my backyard, nor will they ever be on my property. However, since you the bring the dog up, explain to me what cattle ranchers do to address riparian growth, or more correctly, why they don't care, since that's closer to your dog scenario.

What if someone came into your waterway and killed one of your whales?

Study the causes of the near extinction of the blue whale species. Get familiar with the history. Understand what the situation is with the blue whales today. Address how property rights fits into all of that. If you want, you can start also thinking about what the limiting factors are on the annual global fish haul today, as opposed to 150 years ago.

[Hawker]

Now, tell me, how would your system deal with the near decimation of the blue whale population that occurred in the mid twentieth century?

What would happen if someone came into your back yard and killed your dog? Would you have legal ramifications?

What if someone came into your waterway and killed one of your whales?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale

I hope you find this helpful as you clearly have no idea what a whale is.

[Elwar]

Now, tell me, how would your system deal with the near decimation of the blue whale population that occurred in the mid twentieth century?

What would happen if someone came into your back yard and killed your dog? Would you have legal ramifications?

Blue whales will never be in my backyard, nor will they ever be on my property. However, since you the bring the dog up, explain to me what cattle ranchers do to address riparian growth, or more correctly, why they don't care, since that's closer to your dog scenario.

What if someone came into your waterway and killed one of your whales?

Study the causes of the near extinction of the blue whale species. Get familiar with the history. Understand what the situation is with the blue whales today. Address how property rights fits into all of that. If you want, you can start also thinking about what the limiting factors are on the annual global fish haul today, as opposed to 150 years ago.

How soon do you believe that chickens will go extinct? How about cows?

Blue whales will never be in my backyard

They could be... http://seasteading.org/

[Hawker]

Seriously Elwar, read the wiki on whales.  Its embarrassing that you think they are domesticated animals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale

[EhVedadoOAnonimato]

Err... SeaWorld?

[FirstAscent]

If you're trying to redirect a discussion about environmental issues to what is happening with regard to swimming pools, backyards, pet dogs and chickens on farms, then it becomes clear that you're out of your depth.

[Hawker]

If you're trying to redirect a discussion about environmental issues to what is happening with regard to swimming pools, backyards, pet dogs and chickens on farms, then it becomes clear that you're out of your depth.

Surely "out of your depth" is the wrong phrase for someone who thinks whales live in backyards?  "Fish out of water" would be better, even if whales are mammals

[FirstAscent]

If you're trying to redirect a discussion about environmental issues to what is happening with regard to swimming pools, backyards, pet dogs and chickens on farms, then it becomes clear that you're out of your depth.

Surely "out of your depth" is the wrong phrase for someone who thinks whales live in backyards?  "Fish out of water" would be better, even if whales are mammals

These guys are definitely fish out of water. I mean, how difficult is it to grasp that a swimming pool at Seaworld is not representative of the ocean and its ecosystems. And what exactly does a dog in someone's backyard have to do with anything?

You have no idea how many times I have mentioned on these forums that being an enthusiast for property rights does not make you qualified to address environmental issues.

[Elwar]

And what exactly does a dog in someone's backyard have to do with anything?

I will type slowly so that you understand.

Your dog is your property. If someone shoots your dog, they will be held legally liable.

With no public land then all animals in the world are someone's property. Any harm to someone else's property will be held legally liable.

Do I need to type slower?

[FirstAscent]

And what exactly does a dog in someone's backyard have to do with anything?

I will type slowly so that you understand.

Your dog is your property. If someone shoots your dog, they will be held legally liable.

With no public land then all animals in the world are someone's property. Any harm to someone else's property will be held legally liable.

Do I need to type slower?

I refer you to the second paragraph of my last post.

[Hawker]

And what exactly does a dog in someone's backyard have to do with anything?

I will type slowly so that you understand.

Your dog is your property. If someone shoots your dog, they will be held legally liable.

With no public land then all animals in the world are someone's property. Any harm to someone else's property will be held legally liable.

Do I need to type slower?

Is there a reason you think that whales live on land?  I've linked to information about the species twice.  What's stopping you from educating yourself instead of making a fool of yourself?

Hint: they live in the oceans which no-one owns.

[Elwar]

Hint: they live in the oceans which no-one owns.

Part of the problem.