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Author Topic: Require a small amount of merit to become a Junior Member  (Read 1377 times)
Shelby_Moore_III
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July 16, 2018, 08:49:20 PM
 #41

Dear friend, did you not forget why and for what purpose was the bitcoin created?

Did you forget? It was created to be the future world’s reserve currency controlled surreptitiously (with centralized anonymous mining) behind the curtain by the global elite who ostensibly created Bitcoin:

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/bitcoin-rises-because-land-is-becoming-worthless

https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@anonymint/re-anonymint-bitcoin-rises-because-land-is-becoming-worthless-20180519t120410615z

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1082909.msg42147879#msg42147879

Also I’m not against anonymity, but until we have decentralized moderation as I explained it (click the link I provided in my prior post and read the entire thread), then Verified Identity is the only sane design I can imagine. Do you have a better idea for how to repair this clusterfucked bitcointalk.org insane asylum of anonymous trolls?
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provalentine
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July 16, 2018, 09:27:25 PM
 #42

Do you have a better idea for how to repair this clusterfucked bitcointalk.org insane asylum of anonymous trolls?
No, it seems to me that it is difficult or impossible at all... Thank you for the interesting information that you provided, I now study it with pleasure.

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xtraelv
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July 16, 2018, 10:09:31 PM
 #43

I don't think a single merit requirement is of any significance, it's too easy to feed into an alt and bot network. I've mad a number of suggestions in the past, and some of them are.

- Newby thread starting restricted to an intro and an account recovery board. Newbies and juniors restricted to beginners and associated boards.
- Merits associated with posts deleted by a mod, or by  the poster should be removed.
- No merits for trading, bounty, ICO or similar posts.

I think there were a load more, but that will do for the moment. Smiley

I think a single merit requirement would be quite good. It means that multiple bots can probably get detected by simply tracking their merit sources using Ddmrddmr s tools. Patterns would be easy to identify.

It might take some time but eventually their sources for merits will be exhausted and it will become more difficult for them.





https://fusiontables.google.com/DataSource?docid=1wM2Op6_ol8_0iP0sDEemIGr9weKvIeLPvKsKMpFy#chartnew:id=3


Perhaps something that some of the data gurus probably would love. Release the new account registrations data. This would allow pattern matching to bulk bot registrations.

We are surrounded by legends on this forum. Phenomenal successes and catastrophic failures. Then there are the scams. This forum is a digital museum.  
* The most iconic historic bitcointalk threads.* Satoshi * Cypherpunks*MtGox*Bitcointalk hacks*pHiShInG* Silk Road*Pirateat40*Knightmb*Miner shams*Forum scandals*BBCode*
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July 17, 2018, 05:44:46 AM
 #44

Perhaps something that some of the data gurus probably would love. Release the new account registrations data. This would allow pattern matching to bulk bot registrations.
A daily dump of all usernames would be a great help. Just 3 days ago, I've identified 874 likely bot accounts, out of the 11000 profiles I downloaded. Earlier, 227 of those were caught spamming and nuked already, yesterday they continued spamming with accounts that I identified already.

There are 2 problems though:
-I don't think Mods are willing to nuke accounts that didn't spam yet
-And even if they do, spambots will quickly change their pattern so that it can't be identified anymore.

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July 17, 2018, 06:01:47 AM
 #45

I think the people from the post you posted should be penalized in different ways. I have yet to get a merit, and as far as I can tell other legit JR. members also. It's not fair that we should be penalized because of obvious spammers.
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July 17, 2018, 06:17:07 AM
 #46

One idea could be to change the registration process in a way cannot be easily automated. Limiting posting ability was already discussed and dismissed. There is no perfect solution.

Otherwise we would need some machine learning magic in the forum that takes care of detecting bots  Smiley


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Transparent.






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hilariousetc
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July 17, 2018, 08:29:08 AM
 #47

I think the people from the post you posted should be penalized in different way. I have yet to get a merit, and as far as I can tell other legit JR. members also. It's not fair that we should be penalized because of obvious spammers.

You don't have to be a bot or an obvious spammer. There are many users who just write 30 one liners over the required time and then they become a Junior Member with no effort whatsoever. People are farming accounts in their hundreds if not thousands this way. Requiring one merit is not outrageous, but it certainly makes farming Junior accounts much more harder and doesn't really effect those others who are here to contribute something as they will likely get the merit pretty fast. I've just looked over your few pages of posts and whilst I wouldn't call you a spammer you haven't really contributed anything substantial either, but I doubt you'd have much issue in getting one merit if you put some more effort in. Requiring one merit to move up a rank really shouldn't be an issue, and if people can't even achieve one merit I would say the problem lies with them.

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July 17, 2018, 07:02:55 PM
 #48

Not sure if anyone has requested this or not before, but I think we should consider adding a small merit requirement to become a Junior Member. Even if it was just a one merit requirement I think it would help a lot, because far too many spammers and spambots are getting the rank and once they hit that they can't be nuked. We're getting hit by a lot of these 'haiku' bots as people keep calling them (though I think they're more like doge bots: riveting business, spotless design, much wow):

Such plan are becoming smash.
Outstanding design, conversant activity, pretty good design!

Hi, guys.
Waiting for something more amusing here! Sober business, very well idea!

I wish this idea becomes a great advance! Riveting results, spotless design, responsive approach!

I wish this idea gets a great profit. Riveting activity, outstanding website, arguable idea!

I expect you advance.
Cerebral results, really great design, a very detailed and profitable website!

I think this business is very nice and nice. Amazing results, watchful activity, absorbing website!

The plan seems pretty hopeful. Unblemished website, discerning activity, absorbing vision!

I think this business is very nice and nice. Amazing results, watchful activity, absorbing website!

I wish you success.
Percipient results, spotless website, very nice activity.

Hello !
remarkable trading fees. Unprejudiced business, interesting project!

I expect this plan becomes a great profit. Riveting plan, certain vision, spotless idea!

Those are all Junior Members and their posts all follow the same format. There's also hundreds of them. They should be nuked as deleting their posts one by one is incredibly time consuming. Alternatively, allowing Globals or something to nuke Juniors would also help.

Why such users cannot be banished without the right to restore accounts. There are rules of the forum-it's like a Constitution. Who its violates the ban. Social networks don't stand on ceremony - broke rules - have a rest. Here it is time to enter such system long ago-users arrive every day to garbage becomes more and more.

- BlocVehicle - MAKE YOUR OWN CAR HISTORY -
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hilariousetc
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July 17, 2018, 07:34:50 PM
 #49



Why such users cannot be banished without the right to restore accounts. There are rules of the forum-it's like a Constitution. Who its violates the ban. Social networks don't stand on ceremony - broke rules - have a rest. Here it is time to enter such system long ago-users arrive every day to garbage becomes more and more.

They are banned when spotted. The trouble is they have hundreds if not thousands of accounts stockpiled and ready to use, and as Loyce said bellow you can't really win a war against automation. The biggest weapon we have against them is a simple captcha and that can obviously be bypassed very easily. Without putting in more hurdles to jump through you can't really do anything about it, but that just annoys or penalises everybody else in the process (and bots don't get annoyed).

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July 17, 2018, 07:42:33 PM
 #50

They are banned when spotted.
Assuming they're bots, and Mods are human, Mods can't win this Sad

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July 17, 2018, 10:19:30 PM
 #51

They are banned when spotted.
Assuming they're bots, and Mods are human, Mods can't win this Sad
Correct. Only bots can combat spam at that pace. I'm trying to code a bot which automates my daily reporting tasks. The only problem is, there are no set of steps that I could establish which will be performed repeatedly by the bot. Considering I somehow manage to create a bot that does mass accounts reporting on basis of any set of criteria that I define, mods would still need an automation from there side to handle say daily 500 reports generated by the bot.

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July 18, 2018, 11:02:39 AM
 #52

I'm trying to code a bot which automates my daily reporting tasks. The only problem is, there are no set of steps that I could establish which will be performed repeatedly by the bot.
If you can pull this off, can I feed your bot reports too?

Quote
Considering I somehow manage to create a bot that does mass accounts reporting on basis of any set of criteria that I define
The criteria will have to change a lot.
I can quite easily list thousands of Newbie posts that could be reported as "Insubstantial post", and thus deleted. But doing this manually would drive me crazy, so I only dump lists of spamming accounts once in a while.

Quote
mods would still need an automation from there side to handle say daily 500 reports generated by the bot.
There's MindlessElectron, although I don't know what it does exactly.

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July 18, 2018, 01:17:18 PM
 #53

I'm trying to code a bot which automates my daily reporting tasks. The only problem is, there are no set of steps that I could establish which will be performed repeatedly by the bot.
If you can pull this off, can I feed your bot reports too?
...
What about this:
Joel_Jantsen: try to write a bot that imports .csv file with 3 columns: UserID;PostID;Reason
LoyceV: If you can feed Joel_Jantsen's bot with the above mentioned .csv file, that would make the report based on your data
Just make sure that it's not available for the public, because spammers would start to use it to generate false reports....

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July 18, 2018, 02:31:14 PM
 #54

Joel_Jantsen: try to write a bot that imports .csv file with 3 columns: UserID;PostID;Reason
I don't think the userID is needed, right?

Quote
LoyceV: If you can feed Joel_Jantsen's bot with the above mentioned .csv file, that would make the report based on your data
Example:
3205950.msg42165412#msg42165412; posted only "good"
3279292.msg41816885#msg41816885; posted only "good"
3279292.msg41917949#msg41917949; posted only "good"
3279292.msg41942536#msg41942536; posted only "good"
3799562.msg41826741#msg41826741; posted only "good"
4261044.msg42184284#msg42184284; posted only "good"
4266620.msg41874493#msg41874493; posted only "good"
4476057.msg41869138#msg41869138; posted only "good"
4476057.msg41886683#msg41886683; posted only "good"
4481864.msg42030125#msg42030125; posted only "good"
4525894.msg41831069#msg41831069; posted only "good"
4529623.msg42214245#msg42214245; posted only "good"
4541512.msg42116144#msg42116144; posted only "good"
4561885.msg41888140#msg41888140; posted only "good"
4565056.msg42035839#msg42035839; posted only "good"
4583185.msg41803171#msg41803171; posted only "good"
4596710.msg42023624#msg42023624; posted only "good"
4605531.msg41975274#msg41975274; posted only "good"
4611692.msg42275570#msg42275570; posted only "good"
4611692.msg42275772#msg42275772; posted only "good"
4659238.msg42118638#msg42118638; posted only "good"
4659238.msg42128582#msg42128582; posted only "good"
4671938.msg42193692#msg42193692; posted only "good"
4671938.msg42219215#msg42219215; posted only "good"
4677962.msg42223935#msg42223935; posted only "good"
4677962.msg42224524#msg42224524; posted only "good"
4566542.msg42365709#msg42365709; posted only "good"
4685398.msg42344600#msg42344600; posted only "good"
4692708.msg42405265#msg42405265; posted only "good"
4692793.msg42367317#msg42367317; posted only "good"

This was just a quick check from 10 days of Patrol data. I don't think there's any doubt these posts are Insubstantial and should be deleted. Some of them are gone already.
I can quite easily extend this search to many more keywords.

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July 18, 2018, 02:35:25 PM
 #55

I think the people from the post you posted should be penalized in different way. I have yet to get a merit, and as far as I can tell other legit JR. members also. It's not fair that we should be penalized because of obvious spammers.

If you are a normal poster, meaning that you spend some time outside the Altcoin board and join debates, it shouldn't be difficult to get one merit. In fact, that should be quite easy and in no time.

The problem we have in the forum is a situation like this one, for instance: https://www.seoclerk.com/Traffic/611690/Create-Bitcointalk-Account


Low-life guys spamming the forum as a work.



You don't have to be a bot or an obvious spammer. There are many users who just write 30 one liners over the required time and then they become a Junior Member with no effort whatsoever. People are farming accounts in their hundreds if not thousands this way. Requiring one merit is not outrageous, but it certainly makes farming Junior accounts much more harder and doesn't really effect those others who are here to contribute something as they will likely get the merit pretty fast. I've just looked over your few pages of posts and whilst I wouldn't call you a spammer you haven't really contributed anything substantial either, but I doubt you'd have much issue in getting one merit if you put some more effort in. Requiring one merit to move up a rank really shouldn't be an issue, and if people can't even achieve one merit I would say the problem lies with them.

Precisely. It is not only about bots, but about spamming.
As you can see in the example I posted, the guy is offering to create Jr accounts for $50, and it is allowed to ask if you want an account with more activity.
I bet that the posting activity of any of these accounts is nothing but shit.

By implementing the 1 merit requirement for juniors, we will get rid of those, and his "business" will become somehow difficult to achieve.
But I truly believe it will be needed more than a single merit, maybe 5, for the merit market is actually happening, and it can be easy to buy one or to transfer one merit from an account to another.

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Joel_Jantsen
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July 18, 2018, 02:53:22 PM
 #56

I'm trying to code a bot which automates my daily reporting tasks. The only problem is, there are no set of steps that I could establish which will be performed repeatedly by the bot.
If you can pull this off, can I feed your bot reports too?
Basically, what the bot does is -> Logins into my account -> checks for recent posts by the newbies, and if the length of the post is lesser than say 5 words, or just have a link, it reports them. Now, the bot can be programmed to do whatever we want after it logs in. I'm not sure what you mean by feeding the reports.

Quote
Considering I somehow manage to create a bot that does mass accounts reporting on basis of any set of criteria that I define
The criteria will have to change a lot.
I can quite easily list thousands of Newbie posts that could be reported as "Insubstantial post", and thus deleted. But doing this manually would drive me crazy, so I only dump lists of spamming accounts once in a while.
If you can establish a sort of pattern common to all of the newly created accounts, we can program the bot to act on those defined conditions. It would really automate the manual reporting process.

Quote
mods would still need an automation from there side to handle say daily 500 reports generated by the bot.
There's MindlessElectron, although I don't know what it does exactly.
Need to ask Mitchell!

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stompix
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July 18, 2018, 10:18:37 PM
 #57

I'm really amazed people are offering for sale and they also have buyers for Jr Members...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4655720
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2962770
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4693792

Really? Probably half of the "buyers' are alts of the seller but still..
1 Jr Member- $22  Huh

This is just insane, if indeed there is going to be 1-5 merit requirement what's going to happen?
The price for newbie accounts hits 10$ and for jr 100$?

They are banned when spotted.
Assuming they're bots, and Mods are human, Mods can't win this Sad

Let's add Mod bots to this.
Farming bots will make mistakes, they don't give a damn, Mod bots making mistakes might damage the forum and hurt real users.
In the end...the evil bots will win this round also.  Cry






QuadeBarrier
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July 19, 2018, 03:04:45 AM
 #58

I think the people from the post you posted should be penalized in different way. I have yet to get a merit, and as far as I can tell other legit JR. members also. It's not fair that we should be penalized because of obvious spammers.

You don't have to be a bot or an obvious spammer. There are many users who just write 30 one liners over the required time and then they become a Junior Member with no effort whatsoever. People are farming accounts in their hundreds if not thousands this way. Requiring one merit is not outrageous, but it certainly makes farming Junior accounts much more harder and doesn't really effect those others who are here to contribute something as they will likely get the merit pretty fast. I've just looked over your few pages of posts and whilst I wouldn't call you a spammer you haven't really contributed anything substantial either, but I doubt you'd have much issue in getting one merit if you put some more effort in. Requiring one merit to move up a rank really shouldn't be an issue, and if people can't even achieve one merit I would say the problem lies with them.

I understand that the spammers and bot are a bigger issue than a regular person getting a merit to be a Jr. member. But what I'm saying is that I'm a regular person, having regular conversations, posts, and so on. Even though I understand that the spammers and bot are a major  issue, I'm just trying to bring light how this really messes up a regular person.

The difficulty is such now that instead of developing through natural conversations, I have to go above and beyond and create really amazing posts. Most regular people are not going to have that ability. So you can see how it hurts the regular person the most.

I am fine with all of it.

Like I know I can go back and improved what I just said if I spend a lot more mental effort and time going over and looking at how I can better express my point. But now instead of being natural and a regular person, I'm forcing myself, using more mental energy, for the hope of getting a merit.

The cost, energy that one has to use for hopefully getting a merit puts us at a disadvantage.
QuadeBarrier
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July 19, 2018, 03:11:45 AM
 #59

I think the people from the post you posted should be penalized in different way. I have yet to get a merit, and as far as I can tell other legit JR. members also. It's not fair that we should be penalized because of obvious spammers.

If you are a normal poster, meaning that you spend some time outside the Altcoin board and join debates, it shouldn't be difficult to get one merit. In fact, that should be quite easy and in no time.

The problem we have in the forum is a situation like this one, for instance: https://www.seoclerk.com/Traffic/611690/Create-Bitcointalk-Account
https://i.imgur.com/09EVLJO.png

Low-life guys spamming the forum as a work.



You don't have to be a bot or an obvious spammer. There are many users who just write 30 one liners over the required time and then they become a Junior Member with no effort whatsoever. People are farming accounts in their hundreds if not thousands this way. Requiring one merit is not outrageous, but it certainly makes farming Junior accounts much more harder and doesn't really effect those others who are here to contribute something as they will likely get the merit pretty fast. I've just looked over your few pages of posts and whilst I wouldn't call you a spammer you haven't really contributed anything substantial either, but I doubt you'd have much issue in getting one merit if you put some more effort in. Requiring one merit to move up a rank really shouldn't be an issue, and if people can't even achieve one merit I would say the problem lies with them.

Precisely. It is not only about bots, but about spamming.
As you can see in the example I posted, the guy is offering to create Jr accounts for $50, and it is allowed to ask if you want an account with more activity.
I bet that the posting activity of any of these accounts is nothing but shit.

By implementing the 1 merit requirement for juniors, we will get rid of those, and his "business" will become somehow difficult to achieve.
But I truly believe it will be needed more than a single merit, maybe 5, for the merit market is actually happening, and it can be easy to buy one or to transfer one merit from an account to another.

I understand the logic and it makes sense. I was just trying to point out how much more difficult it all makes it for the regular people. Just wish there was a better solution to prevent people from spamming and selling such accounts.
elda34b
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July 19, 2018, 04:03:08 AM
 #60

I understand the logic and it makes sense. I was just trying to point out how much more difficult it all makes it for the regular people. Just wish there was a better solution to prevent people from spamming and selling such accounts.

So the one who gets merits is an irregular/divergent? That means the majority of this forum can't write meaningful posts, isn't it?

Come on Quade, don't be too pessimistic.

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