[ANN] Blacknet BLN | Staking | Future of zApp & ZeFi

[ssaCEO]

 Mint is still a great coin with a good base but Mint is inferior to Black in every way.

In what ways is Blackcoin superior to Mintcoin?  I promise that I won't argue with you.  I sincerely want to know your opinion.

I promise I'll get to Mintcoin vs. Blackcoin but a preface here:

A lot of people in the crypto/libertarian community like to talk shit about central banks and how we need to revert to some kind of gold standard. What's often not discussed are the finer details: For instance, the world's central banks have presided over the money supply through the most radical expansion of wealth, higher living standards, longer lifespans and the most radical decrease of infant mortality in human history, through the course of the 19th century. They've also presided over the largest and deadliest wars in human history (although not necessarily as bad as they could have been given the technology, and for all their brutality, not necessarily more brutal than wars that had gone before).

Well. What this means is that no one with a knowledge of history can discount out of hand the idea that all economies are a non-zero-sum game in which the money supply needs to grow and contract to provide the necessary incentives to save or stimulus to invest. And so anything with a flat rate of interest or inflation is naturally a bit suspect, because human affairs just don't work that way. Shouldn't BC generate more money supply if more business is being done in the currency and people want to borrow it? Shouldn't MintCoin give less interest if it's apparent that its inflation is running out of control?

What we think we know is that Bitcoin itself is too prone to hoarding and too deflationary in nature. Therefore a proof-of-stake seems like a sensible idea, or at least a valuable experiment. The question for me about MintCoin is why that stake should be higher in the beginning. MintCoin's strategy for lowering stake by the year seems arbitrary and may become counterproductive at any point where the currency really begins to take off. It's an incentive to hoarding, at least for the first 5 years. And it's not an incentive to financing after that.

Is BlackCoin striking the right balance because it will always keep a 1% rate? Probably not exactly. However it's a lot closer to being a long-run fair bet than something that's going to arbitrarily dictate reduced interest rates annually with no regard for how many people adopt it or how they use it.

The only thing that could beat BlackCoin, imho, is a currency that paid interest based on volume transacted, using some algorithm to determine which transactions were truly long-running investments and rewarding those with a higher long-term interest rate (i.e., you start by earning A% per coin per 8 hours, but after a X amount of time determined by the liquidity of the market you top out at B%, some adjustable rate of interest based on an algorithm that determines how tight the money supply should be; holding coins longer than that, it starts to go back down). In the meantime, having a very low fixed rate of interest effectively allows BC to be a carry trade instrument for Mint and other high-yield coins, should prices stabilize after a couple of years. And whatever happens to the other coins, it can remain so.

[ed] and it's worth mentioning that multi-pool mining for other coins is basically a kind of carry trade arbitrage that's already being carried out in BC.

[RouletteRun]

Edit: imo alot of people don't like the idea of billions and billions of coins

I believe this is more a matter of distribution. More coins means more potential for widespread adoption. I mean, if there are 100 000 people on the altcoin scene, that's the maximum. Compare with 7 billions (soon 9) inhabitant on this planet.

I agree with this fully, would I rather have a high value, low total number coin in the hands of a few, or a lower valued, high total number coin in the hands of the masses? I use the analogy of the American Gold Eagle coin versus the American dollar as my point. Which is used as the everyday currency? That's because it's in the hands of everybody and if the masses were to have a coin in their hands, this be the incentive for retailers, service providers and even workers to be paid in a digital currency. I was a BC miner and am still a BC holder and mining on the BlackCoin Pool beta, but my home coin is Nutcoin, and right now we are still very much in a distribution phase of the coin, it's been out for just under 3 months now and thankfully we've been flying low which is allowing for easy mining and a wider distribution of the coin before the whales take notice and try to grind it into the dirt. The wider the distribution of the coin, the harder it will be to manipulate the price and for the big holders to manufacture pump and dumps like we've been seeing with BC these past few days so the big boys can buy the coins the panic sellers are dumping at the bottom of the dumps at bargain prices. Hold your coins.

You are ignoring the other points made in this thread about this.

I fully understand dividing coins into 8 decimal places, but what I believe I'm seeing take place right now is the concentration of BlackCoin into too few hands. Maybe I'm wrong and we'll all get rich from BlackCoin, but I don't know that working from the scarcity principal is the only way to go. How when people are gobbling up BlackCoins as fast as we can do we at the same time distribute them to the masses for commercial use?

[yourstruly]

Edit: imo alot of people don't like the idea of billions and billions of coins

I believe this is more a matter of distribution. More coins means more potential for widespread adoption. I mean, if there are 100 000 people on the altcoin scene, that's the maximum. Compare with 7 billions (soon 9) inhabitant on this planet.

I agree with this fully, would I rather have a high value, low total number coin in the hands of a few, or a lower valued, high total number coin in the hands of the masses? I use the analogy of the American Gold Eagle coin versus the American dollar as my point. Which is used as the everyday currency? That's because it's in the hands of everybody and if the masses were to have a coin in their hands, this be the incentive for retailers, service providers and even workers to be paid in a digital currency. I was a BC miner and am still a BC holder and mining on the BlackCoin Pool beta, but my home coin is Nutcoin, and right now we are still very much in a distribution phase of the coin, it's been out for just under 3 months now and thankfully we've been flying low which is allowing for easy mining and a wider distribution of the coin before the whales take notice and try to grind it into the dirt. The wider the distribution of the coin, the harder it will be to manipulate the price and for the big holders to manufacture pump and dumps like we've been seeing with BC these past few days so the big boys can buy the coins the panic sellers are dumping at the bottom of the dumps at bargain prices. Hold your coins.

You are ignoring the other points made in this thread about this.

I fully understand dividing coins into 8 decimal places, but what I believe I'm seeing take place right now is the concentration of BlackCoin into too few hands. Maybe I'm wrong and we'll all get rich from BlackCoin, but I don't know that working from the scarcity principal is the only way to go. How when people are gobbling up BlackCoins as fast as we can do we at the same time distribute them to the masses for commercial use?

You are putting the cart before the horse. This is apart of the process, as the value raises people with large amounts will dump some to get returns on their investments and will distribute the coins. The increased price will also bring in more multipool miners.

[XbladeX]

Your implication was 'Why did hashcows add mint?  oh, they must have bribed them.'.  My only point is, all you had to do was ask, and I don't appreciate the implication.  Last I'll make any mention, as its not worthwhile.

HE said he asked and got no answer.

Anyway, let us stop this. It will bing nothing good. We better stand together than tear each other apart.

For the PoS!

...I don't have anything big against Mint this is totally different POS system.
Diffrent parameters diffrent concepts Mint has thier clones.

There were offcourse clone of BC like DynamicCoin  but it forked few times during first night BC Dev called it "Black magic" ^^.

There is many POS coins around Mint and BC just connect similar time when were released but they are different concepts...
Let guys Mint live and not to troll them whiteout any reason.
But when some come here and want put shit on my BC i will defend it...

I don't like when someone come here and saying same bullshit across all threads "scam" "pump and dump" or "hahaha XXXX coins is dead"...

[MuffinMaster]

 Mint is still a great coin with a good base but Mint is inferior to Black in every way.

In what ways is Blackcoin superior to Mintcoin?  I promise that I won't argue with you.  I sincerely want to know your opinion.

I promise I'll get to Mintcoin vs. Blackcoin but a preface here:

A lot of people in the crypto/libertarian community likes to talk shit about central banks and how we need to revert to some kind of gold standard. What's often not discussed are the finer details: For instance, the world's central banks have presided over the money supply through the most radical expansion of wealth, higher living standards, longer lifespans and the most radical decrease of infant mortality in human history, through the course of the 19th century. They've also presided over the largest and deadliest wars in human history (although not necessarily as bad as they could have been given the technology, and for all their brutality, not necessarily more brutal than wars that had gone before).

Well. What this means is that no one with a knowledge of history can discount out of hand the idea that all economies are a non-zero-sum game in which the money supply needs to grow and contract to provide the necessary incentives to save or stimulus to invest. And so anything with a flat rate of interest or inflation is naturally a bit suspect, because human affairs just don't work that way. Shouldn't BC generate more money supply if more business is being done in the currency and people want to borrow it? Shouldn't MintCoin give less interest if it's apparent that its inflation is running out of control?

What we think we know is that Bitcoin itself is too prone to hoarding and too deflationary in nature. Therefore a proof-of-stake seems like a sensible idea, or at least a valuable experiment. The question for me about MintCoin is why that stake should be higher in the beginning. MintCoin's strategy for lowering stake by the year seems arbitrary and may become counterproductive at any point where the currency really begins to take off. It's an incentive to hoarding, at least for the first 5 years. And it's not an incentive to financing after that.

Is BlackCoin striking the right balance because it will always keep a 1% rate? Probably not exactly. However it's a lot closer to being a long-run fair bet than something that's going to arbitrarily dictate reduced interest rates annually with no regard for how many people adopt it or how they use it.

[ed] and it's worth mentioning that multi-pool mining for other coins is basically a kind of carry trade arbitrage that's already being carried out in BC.

Fantastic post.

I believe the splitting to 8 decimal places solves a lot of the non-zero sum game. Value can continue to increase per unit, so you use smaller and smaller units. Since you can split almost to infinity with computer values, its irrelevant and the value is still retained.

There has never been a global currency that has 1% fixed inflation that cannot be messed with by any government. Bitcoin and Litecoin are good examples however their inflation is still massive, even compared to FIAT. Crypto's power lies in being free from any outside interference from government, why not make it free from inflation as well?


Black-coin is fairly distributed right now but it needs to be more so and more widely distributed. Its not an issue right now and wont be over the next few weeks but everyone should try and get their family an friends along for the ride. Get them started with a wallet with 10 BC to start or whatever amount.

Its time to take this to the next step...

[beakins0]

 Mint is still a great coin with a good base but Mint is inferior to Black in every way.

In what ways is Blackcoin superior to Mintcoin?  I promise that I won't argue with you.  I sincerely want to know your opinion.

I promise I'll get to Mintcoin vs. Blackcoin but a preface here:

A lot of people in the crypto/libertarian community likes to talk shit about central banks and how we need to revert to some kind of gold standard. What's often not discussed are the finer details: For instance, the world's central banks have presided over the money supply through the most radical expansion of wealth, higher living standards, longer lifespans and the most radical decrease of infant mortality in human history, through the course of the 19th century. They've also presided over the largest and deadliest wars in human history (although not necessarily as bad as they could have been given the technology, and for all their brutality, not necessarily more brutal than wars that had gone before).

Well. What this means is that no one with a knowledge of history can discount out of hand the idea that all economies are a non-zero-sum game in which the money supply needs to grow and contract to provide the necessary incentives to save or stimulus to invest. And so anything with a flat rate of interest or inflation is naturally a bit suspect, because human affairs just don't work that way. Shouldn't BC generate more money supply if more business is being done in the currency and people want to borrow it? Shouldn't MintCoin give less interest if it's apparent that its inflation is running out of control?

What we think we know is that Bitcoin itself is too prone to hoarding and too deflationary in nature. Therefore a proof-of-stake seems like a sensible idea, or at least a valuable experiment. The question for me about MintCoin is why that stake should be higher in the beginning. MintCoin's strategy for lowering stake by the year seems arbitrary and may become counterproductive at any point where the currency really begins to take off. It's an incentive to hoarding, at least for the first 5 years. And it's not an incentive to financing after that.

Is BlackCoin striking the right balance because it will always keep a 1% rate? Probably not exactly. However it's a lot closer to being a long-run fair bet than something that's going to arbitrarily dictate reduced interest rates annually with no regard for how many people adopt it or how they use it.

The only thing that could beat BlackCoin, imho, is a currency that paid interest based on volume transacted, using some algorithm to determine which transactions were truly long-running investments and rewarding those with a higher long-term interest rate (i.e., you start by earning A% per coin per 8 hours, but after a X amount of time determined by the liquidity of the market you top out at B%, some adjustable rate of interest based on an algorithm that determines how tight the money supply should be; holding coins longer than that, it starts to go back down). In the meantime, having a very low fixed rate of interest effectively allows BC to be a carry trade instrument for Mint and other high-yield coins, should prices stabilize after a couple of years. And whatever happens to the other coins, it can remain so.

[ed] and it's worth mentioning that multi-pool mining for other coins is basically a kind of carry trade arbitrage that's already being carried out in BC.

A coin with a rate of interest adjusted by the transaction volume is a very nice idea.  Maybe, we'll see one eventually.  A currency based on the equation of exchange:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equation_of_exchange

with an interest rate algorithm designed to keep prices (roughly) constant would be very appealing.

[ssaCEO]

Fantastic post.

Thank you.

I believe the splitting to 8 decimal places solves a lot of the non-zero sum game. Value can continue to increase per unit, so you use smaller and smaller units. Since you can split almost to infinity with computer values, its irrelevant and the value is still retained.

The thing is, that doesn't really solve the problem. It solves the problem of how to denominate it, but it doesn't solve the problem of hoarding. Because as long as you're reducing to smaller decimal places to buy a loaf of bread, for instance, the value of your Bitcoin is worth more and more loaves of bread. As long as value increases per unit of Bitcoin, you have deflation and no one will actually spend the currency. When no one spends it, the economy collapses because merchants like me can't stay in business.

As a little side note, I learned something really interesting about economics by opening the first Bitcoin casino... I learned that people gamble when the currency loses value (or in other words, inflates). It may seem obvious, but it wasn't obvious to me at the beginning. I used to be terrified that Bitcoin would go down because our holdings would lose value. But I realized pretty soon that that's exactly when people gamble their coins.

There has never been a global currency that has 1% fixed inflation that cannot be messed with by any government. Bitcoin and Litecoin are good examples however their inflation is still massive, even compared to FIAT. Crypto's power lies in being free from any outside interference from government, why not make it free from inflation as well?


Black-coin is fairly distributed right now but it needs to be more so and more widely distributed. Its not an issue right now and wont be over the next few weeks but everyone should try and get their family an friends along for the ride. Get them started with a wallet with 10 BC to start or whatever amount.

Its time to take this to the next step...

I completely agree with this, and I think that's why BlackCoin is a solid bet to be a complementary store of value to BTC/LTC. I do wish that the interest rate could be tweaked, but to this point no one has set up a coin that tweaks interest rates based on market dynamics (although BC bonds could certainly be issued down the road that would fill that gap). So given where we are now, I think the distribution and the fixed interest rate are as close-to-right as you can ask for.

I don't think you should say '1% fixed inflation' though, because 'inflation' is a measure of the currency's loss in buying power not a measure of how much money supply there is alone. BTC will become deflationary long before it's done being mined... as it is right now, BC is deflationary because it's rising in value faster than it pays interest; therefore most people won't loan it or spend it.

[ssaCEO]

with an interest rate algorithm designed to keep prices (roughly) constant would be very appealing.

I know. I probably shouldn't have said it in this forum, because someone else will do it and become insanely wealthy from it. For the time being though, BC is as good as it gets from a fundamental perspective; and even if such a coin appeared tomorrow, BC would be a great alternative/carry instrument for it, so they would be complimentary.

[David Latapie]

A lot of people in the crypto/libertarian community like to talk shit about central banks and how we need to revert to some kind of gold standard. What's often not discussed are the finer details: For instance, the world's central banks have presided over the money supply through the most radical expansion of wealth, higher living standards, longer lifespans and the most radical decrease of infant mortality in human history, through the course of the 19th century. They've also presided over the largest and deadliest wars in human history (although not necessarily as bad as they could have been given the technology, and for all their brutality, not necessarily more brutal than wars that had gone before).

Correlation !=causation. Can you prove there is causation?

MintCoin's strategy for lowering stake by the year seems arbitrary and may become counterproductive at any point where the currency really begins to take off. It's an incentive to hoarding, at least for the first 5 years. And it's not an incentive to financing after that.

I also believe it is arbitrary. Inflation is my forte, anyway.

The only thing that could beat BlackCoin, imho, is a currency that paid interest based on volume transacted, using some algorithm to determine which transactions were truly long-running investments and rewarding those with a higher long-term interest rate (i.e., you start by earning A% per coin per 8 hours, but after a X amount of time determined by the liquidity of the market you top out at B%, some adjustable rate of interest based on an algorithm that determines how tight the money supply should be; holding coins longer than that, it starts to go back down). In the meantime, having a very low fixed rate of interest effectively allows BC to be a carry trade instrument for Mint and other high-yield coins, should prices stabilize after a couple of years. And whatever happens to the other coins, it can remain so.

Adjustable interest rate? Interesting. The strenght of the bitcoin protocol (I am talking about the protocol, not the currency) is that it alllows to know exactly how much money exist at a certain moment, be it in circulation or not. Surely we should take advantage of this - never before in history was this possible. Is there a potential for better equality, for reducing Gini index?. Watch Richard Wilkinson:How economic inequality harms societies in TED. There could be a potential for another coin here, but it would be better if it was a change from an already-dominating coin (like BC moving to dynamic interest rate). We have precedence of a coin changing its fundamental way of working - dogecoin has removed its maximum cap, if I remember well.

[ed] and it's worth mentioning that multi-pool mining for other coins is basically a kind of carry trade arbitrage that's already being carried out in BC.

Please explain carry trade arbitrage.

[ssaCEO]

with an interest rate algorithm designed to keep prices (roughly) constant would be very appealing.

I know. I probably shouldn't have said it in this forum, because someone else will do it and become insanely wealthy from it. Hopefully they won't do it stupidly and ruin the idea (anyone who wants to do this should email me first, and build some sims ...has anyone ever built a sim before launching one of these coins??? I do it before launching every new card game or slot machine). For the time being though, BC is as good as it gets from a fundamental perspective; and even if such a coin appeared tomorrow, BC would be a great alternative/carry instrument for it, so they would be complimentary.

[draco71]

By the way, as we speak about cabbages & kings, BC is slowly but steadily gaining ground in MintPal.

P.S. Just joking about "cabbages & kings". Of course we should also discuss other things than the price.


 

[MuffinMaster]

Fantastic post.

Thank you.

I believe the splitting to 8 decimal places solves a lot of the non-zero sum game. Value can continue to increase per unit, so you use smaller and smaller units. Since you can split almost to infinity with computer values, its irrelevant and the value is still retained.

The thing is, that doesn't really solve the problem. It solves the problem of how to denominate it, but it doesn't solve the problem of hoarding. Because as long as you're reducing to smaller decimal places to buy a loaf of bread, for instance, the value of your Bitcoin is worth more and more loaves of bread. As long as value increases per unit of Bitcoin, you have deflation and no one will actually spend the currency. When no one spends it, the economy collapses because merchants like me can't stay in business.

As a little side note, I learned something really interesting about economics by opening the first Bitcoin casino... I learned that people gamble when the currency loses value (or in other words, inflates). It may seem obvious, but it wasn't obvious to me at the beginning. I used to be terrified that Bitcoin would go down because our holdings would lose value. But I realized pretty soon that that's exactly when people gamble their coins.

There has never been a global currency that has 1% fixed inflation that cannot be messed with by any government. Bitcoin and Litecoin are good examples however their inflation is still massive, even compared to FIAT. Crypto's power lies in being free from any outside interference from government, why not make it free from inflation as well?


Black-coin is fairly distributed right now but it needs to be more so and more widely distributed. Its not an issue right now and wont be over the next few weeks but everyone should try and get their family an friends along for the ride. Get them started with a wallet with 10 BC to start or whatever amount.

Its time to take this to the next step...

I completely agree with this, and I think that's why BlackCoin is a solid bet to be a complementary store of value to BTC/LTC. I do wish that the interest rate could be tweaked, but to this point no one has set up a coin that tweaks interest rates based on market dynamics (although BC bonds could certainly be issued down the road that would fill that gap). So given where we are now, I think the distribution and the fixed interest rate are as close-to-right as you can ask for.

I don't think you should say '1% fixed inflation' though, because 'inflation' is a measure of the currency's loss in buying power not a measure of how much money supply there is alone. BTC will become deflationary long before it's done being mined... as it is right now, BC is deflationary because it's rising in value faster than it pays interest; therefore most people won't loan it or spend it.

The Loaf of bread thing, I agree with. Blackcoin cannot solve that problem however there are many difference kinds of currencies. You don't use gold to buy a loaf of bread (unless the economy is really fucked). DRK may be used to transmit funds, then stored long term in Blackcoin, then transferred to Bitcoin for ease of use to spend.

The same thing works today. Cash for transactions that are not traceable. Cash then used to buy gold for long term hedge against inflation, then sold when needed or converted to digital cash in a bank account for ease of use.

The biggest benefit of using crypto currencies is these were built by the people for the people. Not for control.

[ssaCEO]

[ed] and it's worth mentioning that multi-pool mining for other coins is basically a kind of carry trade arbitrage that's already being carried out in BC.

Please explain carry trade arbitrage.
[/quote]

My thinking on this was sort of loose. But anyone mining other alts and buying BC with it, is effectively borrowing BC to turn around and invest temporarily in things that may have a higher rate of return (assuming their prices are stable enough). We aren't at a point yet where I loan you BC and you go put it in MintCoin and take the difference in interest...at this point BC is still a raider. But if it's becoming the home base for those kinds of excursions, it's kind of like the Yen.

[plumptoiletduck]

By the way, as we speak about cabbages & kings, BC is slowly but steadily gaining ground in MintPal.

P.S. Just joking about "cabbages & kings". Of course we should also discuss other things than the price.


 

You've culturally enriched me! I just read the walrus & the carpenter.

[virtualfaqs]

with an interest rate algorithm designed to keep prices (roughly) constant would be very appealing.

I know. I probably shouldn't have said it in this forum, because someone else will do it and become insanely wealthy from it. Hopefully they won't do it stupidly and ruin the idea (anyone who wants to do this should email me first, and build some sims ...has anyone ever built a sim before launching one of these coins??? I do it before launching every new card game or slot machine). For the time being though, BC is as good as it gets from a fundamental perspective; and even if such a coin appeared tomorrow, BC would be a great alternative/carry instrument for it, so they would be complimentary.

Sorry. I'm not following this concept of "adjusted inflation rate".

Also I've heard more people play the lotto when economy is down so that makes sense about gambling. Desperate times means desperate people looking to win big.

[MuffinMaster]

[ed] and it's worth mentioning that multi-pool mining for other coins is basically a kind of carry trade arbitrage that's already being carried out in BC.

Please explain carry trade arbitrage.

My thinking on this was sort of loose. But anyone mining other alts and buying BC with it, is effectively borrowing BC to turn around and invest temporarily in things that may have a higher rate of return (assuming their prices are stable enough). We aren't at a point yet where I loan you BC and you go put it in MintCoin and take the difference in interest...at this point BC is still a raider. But if it's becoming the home base for those kinds of excursions, it's kind of like the Yen.

Blackcoin is still hundreds of millions if not billions off the market cap required to make this worth while. But it also reminds me how early a stage all crypto is in.

I trade forex as well

[ssaCEO]

When markets were controlled by a relative few who had almost all the hard currency -- e.g. in the 1890s -- large-scale capital investment was impossible for up-and-comers. Thus Ma Bell, Standard Oil et al. couldn't be challenged by people with better ideas. The end result was a loss of efficiency in the system as a whole, until the government broke them up.

The loaf-of-bread issue is that economic output is not linear. Really, over time you get more and more output; more grain can be grown from one acre of land. Chicken costs 1/6th what it did at the start of the 20th century in real terms. Things get cheaper as we (as an industrial society) get better at producing them. And so it would make no sense if one chicken were permanently worth 0.1 oz of gold. You need to not just subdivide the gold further -- you need to create more gold, or more paper, or else people will not continue to make a growing number of chickens.

[ed] the above being the best explanation I can come up with after 6 beers, for how printing more paper or creating interest in a virtual currency is not necessarily inflation, but may just be keeping up with the rate of economic growth.

[blade87]

You need to not just subdivide the gold further -- you need to create more gold, or more paper, or else people will not continue to make a growing number of chickens.

So then BC can be the gold while other PoS coins can be the paper!

[MuffinMaster]

When markets were controlled by a relative few who had almost all the hard currency -- e.g. in the 1890s -- large-scale capital investment was impossible for up-and-comers. Thus Ma Bell, Standard Oil et al. couldn't be challenged by people with better ideas. The end result was a loss of efficiency in the system as a whole, until the government broke them up.

The loaf-of-bread issue is that economic output is not linear. Really, over time you get more and more output; more grain can be grown from one acre of land. Chicken costs 1/6th what it did at the start of the 20th century in real terms. Things get cheaper as we (as an industrial society) get better at producing them. And so it would make no sense if one chicken were permanently worth 0.1 oz of gold. You need to not just subdivide the gold further -- you need to create more gold, or more paper, or else people will not continue to make a growing number of chickens.

[ed] the above being the best explanation I can come up with after 6 beers, for how printing more paper or creating interest in a virtual currency is not necessarily inflation, but may just be keeping up with the rate of economic growth.

You're getting into the massive increase in productivity with the subsequent massive decrease in wages compared to economic output. If wages has maintained their ratio to productivity then we would all be making very livable wages just like our parents and grandparents.

If we all were making liveable wages for the past 20 years, then its likely crypto may have never been created.

[CatKiwi]

Apart from the odd stash sell off no one is selling their coins in substantial chunks - we are going up from here I think. Despite my anger towards the market manipulator earlier I managed to make 5000 BC of it so I guess we both won in the end haha