Mt.Gox Multi-plaintiff Suit

[igorr]

I'm in!! Tell me What to do. I have 135 btc on gox.

you've lost everything, and the BTC and money.

[BitBits]

Once the suite is filed, the accounts of all plaintiffs will be most likely locked. So, what if meanwhile Gox opens BTC withdrawals?

[rcocchiararo]

I have 30 btc trapped in there...

Do i qualify? What is the cost until it is recovered?

[igorr]

I have 30 btc trapped in there...

Do i qualify? What is the cost until it is recovered?

no more recovery game is over, now  Bitstamp and BTC-e go to bottom !

[Pangia]

About how much money do you talk?
100k ? 1M?

ha ha that shut up that prick!

?

Sorry to bother you. But filling a lawsuit with co-defendants with only 100$ in a Gox account is pretty STUPID!

Where did the OP state that?

[BitCoinNutJob]

Once the suite is filed, the accounts of all plaintiffs will be most likely locked. So, what if meanwhile Gox opens BTC withdrawals?

yep was thinking that

[Petopas]

Although I haven't got funds @mtgox anymore, I'll supply you with some information in order to support anybody who wants to sue mtgox because I'm very interested in seeing Mark Karpeles at court for his actions. lost quiet a bit during the last days when leaving mtgox.

throughout the last week immediately after the first press release of mtgox regarding halted btc withdrawals, you could observe huge rhythmic btc dumps @mtgox every 2-5 minutes following always the same pattern ("the whale of mtgox"). the sum of these dumps up to now is approx 140000 btc at an average price of around us$270. ie a us$38 mio sell-off. there were a few stuck levels eg at us$261.24 yesterday and us$148.15 the day before yesterday. these were manipulated levels by the whale serving all asks above these levels every 2-5 minutes. this is very difficult to do through the api of mtgox. but very easy if you're in charge of the order book itself.

Therefore, you'll have to deal with either a very risky investor who is going to sue mtgox as well for his us$38+ mio funds @mtgox pretty soon.

if you take into account that most of the trading fees at mtgox were paid in btc throughout the last years (default setting), it is more likely that the whale rushing all the btc on the market is mtgox resp Mark Karpeles himself. This would be an easy way to transfer the customers fiat collected throughout the last years to his own account reducing his liability in € and us$. if you further take into account, that maybe a good portion of btc stored at mtgox got stolen, mtgox might blame the bitcoin protocol ("transaction malleability") as a cause for the loss. the result: Mark Karpeles got the customers fiat, the customers got stolen btc. the customers could file a charge against an unknown person for stealing their btc.

what does this mean? --> all data on the servers of mtgox must be assured immediately in order to investigate the fraud.

ressources:
http://bitcoincharts.com/
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/
http://coinsight.org/mtgox.html

[rcocchiararo]

I have 30 btc trapped in there...

Do i qualify? What is the cost until it is recovered?

no more recovery game is over, now  Bitstamp and BTC-e go to bottom !

do you quote every user that asks here?

[dreamspark]

Good luck but I doubt you will get anything from them for a while, its been a week since btc withdrawals were closed, hardly enough time in the eyes of the law to do a full audit and fix any problems. Not saying that gox isnt stalling but a law suit at this stage seems premature.

so you find it acceptable for gox customers who have waited MONTHS for funds, to just sit twiddling their thumbs?
If I said to you, i have your €6000, but i'm going to keep it for 6 months and earn interest in my bank before I give it back to you, what would you say to me?
you'd say 'oh i'm just a sock puppet for gox, trying to calm tensions on this internet forum - please keep my €6000 and earn interest from it'

yup. 

Where did I say it was acceptable...

In the case of fiat withdrawals I would concede that if you have been waiting months for them then you have a case. What I was saying is that people here including the OP have btc balances not fiat balances and in the case of trying to sue for btc losses a week would not be considered long enough to allow them to do any account audits, fund recovery or fixes, especially as they are in contact (albeit very badly) with their customers and have not said "ah shit moneys gone, tough shit".

[raskul]

Good luck but I doubt you will get anything from them for a while, its been a week since btc withdrawals were closed, hardly enough time in the eyes of the law to do a full audit and fix any problems. Not saying that gox isnt stalling but a law suit at this stage seems premature.

so you find it acceptable for gox customers who have waited MONTHS for funds, to just sit twiddling their thumbs?
If I said to you, i have your €6000, but i'm going to keep it for 6 months and earn interest in my bank before I give it back to you, what would you say to me?
you'd say 'oh i'm just a sock puppet for gox, trying to calm tensions on this internet forum - please keep my €6000 and earn interest from it'

yup. 

Where did I say it was acceptable...

In the case of fiat withdrawals I would concede that if you have been waiting months for them then you have a case. What I was saying is that people here including the OP have btc balances not fiat balances and in the case of trying to sue for btc losses a week would not be considered long enough to allow them to do any account audits, fund recovery or fixes, especially as they are in contact (albeit very badly) with their customers and have not said "ah shit moneys gone, tough shit".

your post read as though your were trying to dissuade folks from taking legal action. I would think contrary to that, the earlier you file a law suit, in cases like this, the better.

[Bobsurplus]

I have contacted the offices of my law firm (REDACTED) in Tokyo to begin proceedings to sue Mt.Gox / Tibanne Ltd / Mark Karpeles for my USD funds.  He advised me that suing for USD is much more reliable than suing for BTC (since the price varies and bankruptcy collection on BTC has an unclear legal process).  Given the liquidations we see on MtGox we believe that there are likely other large plaintiffs filing suit, so we want to move quickly.

If you are interested in being co-plaintiffs in this suit, please PM me (I'm happy to split legal costs), and I will put you in touch with the partner I am dealing with.  Note that you will need to provide full proof of identification as well as proof of account ownership on Gox (to be provided to the law firm, not myself).

In general, a class action type suit is most likely to get us "smaller" holders a larger percentage of our funds than if we filed separate law suits.

If it happens that Mt.Gox enters into bankruptcy (likely as a result of a preceding lawsuit), the firm is experienced in bankruptcy negotiations/law to maximize our tier on collections.  Hopefully we can collect before that because Japanese bankruptcy law is neither well defined nor quick.

We are looking to finish collecting plaintiffs by EOD Friday JST, and file a case as early as we can get the paperwork together next week.

If they go bankrupt I can assure you there will be nothing to collect. Mark will have hidden all the btc somewhere and have no assets to seize.

You can bank on that!

[zyk]

Although I haven't got funds @mtgox anymore, I'll supply you with some information in order to support anybody who wants to sue mtgox because I'm very interested in seeing Mark Karpeles at court for his actions. lost quiet a bit during the last days when leaving mtgox.

throughout the last week immediately after the first press release of mtgox regarding halted btc withdrawals, you could observe huge rhythmic btc dumps @mtgox every 2-5 minutes following always the same pattern ("the whale of mtgox"). the sum of these dumps up to now is approx 140000 btc at an average price of around us$270. ie a us$38 mio sell-off. there were a few stuck levels eg at us$261.24 yesterday and us$148.15 the day before yesterday. these were manipulated levels by the whale serving all asks above these levels every 2-5 minutes. this is very difficult to do through the api of mtgox. but very easy if you're in charge of the order book itself.

Therefore, you'll have to deal with either a very risky investor who is going to sue mtgox as well for his us$38+ mio funds @mtgox pretty soon.

if you take into account that most of the trading fees at mtgox were paid in btc throughout the last years (default setting), it is more likely that the whale rushing all the btc on the market is mtgox resp Mark Karpeles himself. This would be an easy way to transfer the customers fiat collected throughout the last years to his own account reducing his liability in € and us$. if you further take into account, that maybe a good portion of btc stored at mtgox got stolen, mtgox might blame the bitcoin protocol ("transaction malleability") as a cause for the loss. the result: Mark Karpeles got the customers fiat, the customers got stolen btc. the customers could file a charge against an unknown person for stealing their btc.

what does this mean? --> all data on the servers of mtgox must be assured immediately in order to investigate the fraud.

ressources:
http://bitcoincharts.com/
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/
http://coinsight.org/mtgox.html

Bravo...

the only person in the whole BTC-world who gets it  ! at least part of.....

cause Mark didn´t thought out neither accomplished the heist all by himself!

Cheers

[zyk]

I'm in!! Tell me What to do. I have 135 btc on gox.

sell them at bitcoinbuilder as there are still bagholders to be had 

[BitCoinNutJob]

PMed

[zyk]

I'm a permanent resident of Japan with more than a few coins locked up in Gox. I'll follow this thread closely.

Its an urgent matter and criminal insider dealing....you need a very good laywer as he bought the best already to

convince the local authorities to arrest him before all traces are extinct.....

The most obvious trace and hint should be given by knowing which goxaccount did all the selling in the last 10 days!

That haven´t been panicked idiots...that went to a balance which you´ll only retrieve at the cayman islands.....

By moving the office unluckily got some data deleted , you´ll see....in the next announcement

[pleiotropik]

Strange that people here would think that "trading" is happening inside the MtGox black box. At this point common sense has to take over: Karpeles is preparing to redeem all btc of customers in fiat usd. when he conveniently sets the price at $1usd=1btc.... (0.10usd=1btc?, less?) ... lulz. the K Frapuccino man will determine the price level he's comfortable with.

Bitcoin foundation: "Where goest thou"?

[topynate]

Uncomfortable though it might be, holders of BTC on MtGox need to realise that their interests in a bankruptcy are fundamentally opposed to those of USD holders. The right thing to do for BTC holders is to file a second class action seeking to enjoin MtGox from allowing any withdrawals until it can prove it holds sufficient funds to cover both all USD and all BTC deposits.

MtGox has very short terms and conditions; go read them. They make exactly the same warranty on currency holdings and on Bitcoin holdings; thus in an insolvency the Bitcoin holders should seek equal preference. The USD holders would obviously seek to see their USD holdings cashed out before the BTC holders are even looked at, but that's terrible for the BTC holders. It's also very likely to be unfair preference.

What does that mean practically? That all the USD holders could end up with court orders to return their withdrawals.

Oh, and no cheeky conversion of BTC to USD at MtGox's rate, either. Holders of BTC are entitled to fair value. A marketplace in insolvency is by definition not a fair means of valuing assets.

[igorr]

See MtGox,
how it is possible, big international robbery without any help and without any legal responsibility.
Who was behind this   

[mruiter]

I have about 8000 euros in the pipeline to get on my back account.

But just to let you know, while i was reading this thread i received the payment of 1000 euro's (the max of a single day withdrawl) on my account.
It was about 1.5 week late (8 weeks in stead of the 6.5 i'm used to) but i just got it on my account.

So they are still processing withdrawls in Euro's and guess also dollars.

Now let the next 7000 come in 1000 at a time. I withdrew with a couple of days in between so i guess it's gonna take a few days for the next payment.

But i came and there still in business......

[ericools]

I am all for suing for my BTC, there is no chance in hell I'm going to take USD at Gox prices for it.  That would probably be $5 a coin by the time we file anyway at this rate.

Getting BTC is the whole reason for having a Gox account.