SC Releases his 'white paper', hilarity ensues

[localhost]

Mkay... maybe forget what I said then... Although my main concern about this is that he's saying he already gave away millions of coins to SC fanboys. This leaves me with a tough choice about how to call this ccurrency: TaxCoin? RSFriendsCoin? RSClubCoin? FanCoin? So many things to choose from...

ScamCoin is my favorite, I'm pushing for CH to receive the scammer label after this obvious bait-and-switch.

Yeah but that's too generic and overused IMO.

[1713917555]

1713917555

[1713917555]

1713917555

[1713917555]

1713917555

[grod]

The Invisible Hand, flipping off CoinHunter

Tenebrix are roughly at partity with SC on btce for both price and volume.  Lots of flipping off to go around for both massively premined scamchains.

[Lolcust]

Meh, Tenebrix is doing well given zero blawg and twitter support, zero prelaunch hype, and a "competitor" that has both.

For the love of Cthulhu, what is it about some certain people and pre-mines?
 it's like some kind of deep affront to you guys, on a level that seems to go beyond economic reasoning.

The problems with SC2 are not "premine".

The problems are, in no particular order:

• weird chicanery happening to the diff
• the "peer to pig" architecture itself
• absolutely insane obfuscation going on in the "pig node" part of things
• blatant electricity theft
• and, perhaps, most of all, the amazing invisible source code.

In fact, given the above, SC2 is probably doing better than it should according to "strong efficient market" kind of reasoning.

[grod]

Meh, Tenebrix is doing well given zero blawg and twitter support, zero prelaunch hype, and a "competitor" that has both.

For the love of Cthulhu, what is it about some certain people and pre-mines?
 it's like some kind of deep affront to you guys, on a level that seems to go beyond economic reasoning.

The problems with SC2 are not "premine".

The problems are, in no particular order:

weird chicanery happening to the diff, the "peer to pig" architecture itself, absolutely insane obfuscation going on in the "pig node" part of things, blatant electricity theft, and, perhaps, most of all, the amazing invisible source code.

In fact, given the above, SC2 is probably doing better than it should according to "strong efficient market" kind of reasoning.

You say that, but the shit really didn't start hitting the fan until the 13+ million coin premine was disclosed.  That's when SC instantly took a 50% haircut on the exchanges while TBX rallied.  At the moment your pig at the through exhibition is less offensive than that of a demonstrated liar, but only $2000 dollars is buying into both combined.  Congratulations!

[Lolcust]

You say that, but the shit really didn't start hitting the fan until the 13+ million coin premine was disclosed.  That's when SC instantly took a 50% haircut on the exchanges while TBX rallied.  At the moment your pig at the through exhibition is less offensive than that of a demonstrated liar, but only $2000 dollars is buying into both combined.  Congratulations!

Actually, shit started hitting the fan when BTCEx posted his pwnage thread and the fan really spun up when a forum mod reversed his judgment on validity of BTCEx's claims and acknowledged the attack as real.

But I guess we're running into some kind of "subjectivity in sorta-kinda ill-formalized fundamental analysis of exotic neither-money-nor-asset cryptothingie markets" problem at this point

P.S.:
Perhaps a bit of a touchy subject, so feel free to decline answer, but are you currently a resident of the United States?
Just a bit of less-than-scientific statistics gathering on my part...

[BitterTea]

The problems with SC2 are not "premine".

Well, a big problem with SC2 is that it was premined to a much larger extent than previously disclosed. At least all the previous premines (that I know of) have been honest from the beginning (had to be, they disclosed source codes).

I don't like premined block chains, but I don't think there's anything wrong with in as long as it's disclosed.

[Lolcust]

I forgot to add to the above:

SC2 has huge communication issues.

They keep going on "everything is fine, situation is UNDER CONTROL, nothing to see here" when it is pretty obvious that their diff got horribly borked early on and they have weird "chain hiccups" which have so far received zero public technical comment from anyone.

[BitterTea]

I forgot to add to the above:

SC2 has huge communication issues.

They keep going on "everything is fine, situation is UNDER CONTROL, nothing to see here" when it is pretty obvious that their diff got horribly borked early on and they have weird "chain hiccups" which have so far received zero public technical comment from anyone.

That's not "communication issues", that's propaganda.

[johnj]

I forgot to add to the above:

SC2 has huge communication issues.

They keep going on "everything is fine, situation is UNDER CONTROL, nothing to see here" when it is pretty obvious that their diff got horribly borked early on and they have weird "chain hiccups" which have so far received zero public technical comment from anyone.

Just an update

SC 2.0 has been released for ~40 hours.  It's on block 23000.  The current block generation is ~25s, only 27% of the target.  This is after 66 difficulty adjustments.  For a total of 41k funneld into CH's personal wallet.

[Inedible]

Since there are no design docs, or source code I am kinda working in the dark but here are my assumptions.

1. "Normal" (odd) block every 3 1.5 minutes.  Right?
2. A "wealth transfer block" - WTB (even) follows each normal block.  Right?
3. You personal gain 3.2 coins per WTB.  Half of that is from the TN (trusted nodes) and half is minted out of thin air (MOTA). Right?
4. Not sure why you split it up.  Maybe to obfuscate further?

If those 4 assumptions are valid then it is
So that 60*24*365/1.5 * 3.2 = 1,120,000 SC siphoned from SC economy into your personal wallet annually into perpetuity.

About right?

Of course at current difficulty imbalance it is many magnitudes more.

I will update my post above (again) w/ correct math & clarification.

This is really the first time I've read up on SolidCoin so apologies for the daft questions but:

1) How does CoinHunter get SC1.2M every year forever? Does it not stop when the 'security wallets' have released all their coins?

2) Does each of the 12 or so Trusted Nodes pay CoinHunter money? (I.e. he gets this 12 times over)

3) Can the Trusted Nodes money be spent like ordinary SolidCoins once transferred over to CoinHunter's wallet?

4) Does he really get 10% of everything that's mined (SC1.9M)?

5) If the Trusted Nodes monies can be transferred to CoinHunter's wallet, doesn't this mean the SolidCoin economy is massively larger than SC18.9M?

[grod]

P.S.:
Perhaps a bit of a touchy subject, so feel free to decline answer, but are you currently a resident of the United States?
Just a bit of less-than-scientific statistics gathering on my part...

Yup, been living in various parts of the US forever.

[localhost]

This is really the first time I've read up on SolidCoin so apologies for the daft questions but:

1) How does CoinHunter get SC1.2M every year forever? Does it not stop when the 'security wallets' have released all their coins?

2) Does each of the 12 or so Trusted Nodes pay CoinHunter money? (I.e. he gets this 12 times over)

3) Can the Trusted Nodes money be spent like ordinary SolidCoins once transferred over to CoinHunter's wallet?

4) Does he really get 10% of everything that's mined (SC1.9M)?

5) If the Trusted Nodes monies can be transferred to CoinHunter's wallet, doesn't this mean the SolidCoin economy is massively larger than SC18.9M?

1) I don't think the security wallets release any coins more than what they generate.
2) no
3) probably - I think they can just spend money by themselves indeed
4) I'm sure he gets 5% (that's what I read a while ago on solidcointalk). Not too sure about the other 5%, that's new for me too.
5) Yeah, the 18.9M limit was in SC 1. In SC 2 there's no limit on the total amount of coins.

[Inedible]

1) I don't think the security wallets release any coins more than what they generate.
2) no
3) probably - I think they can just spend money by themselves indeed
4) I'm sure he gets 5% (that's what I read a while ago on solidcointalk). Not too sure about the other 5%, that's new for me too.
5) Yeah, the 18.9M limit was in SC 1. In SC 2 there's no limit on the total amount of coins.

My understanding is that the security wallets can't spend money without first going through CoinHunter's wallet first.

Ah, right - with no limit on SC2 then I guess that's why CoinHunter will get paid forever.

Not sure a 5%-10% on the system would fly but I guess for others, that's an acceptable cost for the benefits of SC.

[Lolcust]

P.S.:
Perhaps a bit of a touchy subject, so feel free to decline answer, but are you currently a resident of the United States?
Just a bit of less-than-scientific statistics gathering on my part...

Yup, been living in various parts of the US forever.

Fascinating.

Too bad I'm no sociologist, but still fascinating.

Thank you for answering.

[johnj]

5) If the Trusted Nodes monies can be transferred to CoinHunter's wallet, doesn't this mean the SolidCoin economy is massively larger than SC18.9M?

  Not sure what you mean. The trusted nodes + other premines + current normal mining isn't massively larger than 18.9M.

I think he's talking about the 18.9m from SC 1.0



Bait and switch

[BitterTea]

P.S.:
Perhaps a bit of a touchy subject, so feel free to decline answer, but are you currently a resident of the United States?
Just a bit of less-than-scientific statistics gathering on my part...

Yup, been living in various parts of the US forever.

Fascinating.

Too bad I'm no sociologist, but still fascinating.

Thank you for answering.

I'm curious as to why you find this fascinating. Would you care to share?

[Inedible]

Thanks for the excellent explanation.

5) If the Trusted Nodes monies can be transferred to CoinHunter's wallet, doesn't this mean the SolidCoin economy is massively larger than SC18.9M?

 Not sure what you mean. The trusted nodes + other premines + current normal mining isn't massively larger than 18.9M.

I read that the Trusted Nodes each have 13 million pre-mined.

If these funds can be transferred to CoinHunter's wallet then there would be an additional 13 million available to spend. If there are a dozen of these nodes then there would be 12 * 13 = 156 million more SolidCoin to spend.

Also there doesn't seem to be anything preventing more Trusted Nodes being set up unless that too is hard coded into the client (which can be changed at any time by CoinHunter).

[Inedible]

I think he's talking about the 18.9m from SC 1.0

Bait and switch

Yep, I am referring to the 18.9m from SC1.

I'm inferring that SC1 and SC2 are not the same thing?

Is SC2 not SC1 with a few tweaks or are they two completely separate entities? (E.g. coins mined in SC1 are not the same as those mined in SC2)

[Lolcust]

P.S.:
Perhaps a bit of a touchy subject, so feel free to decline answer, but are you currently a resident of the United States?
Just a bit of less-than-scientific statistics gathering on my part...

Yup, been living in various parts of the US forever.

Fascinating.

Too bad I'm no sociologist, but still fascinating.

Thank you for answering.

I'm curious as to why you find this fascinating. Would you care to share?

Of those who are upset strongly about by the premine and strongly believe it has market effects even when coins are "dormant", and agreed to tell me their rough geographical whereabouts, more than 50% are from US.

Of course, without controls and proper sample size this is low quality data of no particular scientific validity, but still...

[johnj]

I think he's talking about the 18.9m from SC 1.0

Bait and switch

Yep, I am referring to the 18.9m from SC1.

I'm inferring that SC1 and SC2 are not the same thing?

Is SC2 not SC1 with a few tweaks or are they two completely separate entities? (E.g. coins mined in SC1 are not the same as those mined in SC2)

Coins from SC 1.0 -can- be uploaded to SC 2.0.  But that's their only overlap.

I believe there have been more coins mined in 1 day of 2.0, than the entirety of 1.0.  Thus, the people who put their electricity into 1.0 have been scammed out of their value.