Proposal: Disallow Ads in Signatures

[SlidingHorn]

This will just make people post more garbage so they can qualify to have ads in their sigs IMO.

My thoughts exactly.  It won't work...the more concentrated your posts, the slower your activity rate goes up - but that's not gonna stop the newbs from trying...

First of all, I agree with this change. Second, how would this not work? It's not like you can spam your way through activity levels.

I'm sorry, my post was unclear:

I meant to say that the plan of posting more garbage to qualify wouldn't work, as the more concentrated........

My bad

[1714124881]

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[1714124881]

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[freedomno1]

This will just make people post more garbage so they can qualify to have ads in their sigs IMO.

My thoughts exactly.  It won't work...the more concentrated your posts, the slower your activity rate goes up - but that's not gonna stop the newbs from trying...

First of all, I agree with this change. Second, how would this not work? It's not like you can spam your way through activity levels.

You can. Simply open an (or 10) account(s), and spam as you usually would. (The spam is divided between the accounts so you can increase the activity of all of them efficiently.) Eventually (after about two months) you will qualify for most ads and will be able to spam the forum for pay.

My favorite solution in this thread is to require advertisers to only pay users who make large posts.

It may not get rid of spam completely, but it surely does reduce it a significant amount. The number of people who would do that are most likely less than the people who wouldn't bother. Either way, can't admins just IP ban?

I believe so but not 100% Sure in regards to posting
You can't PM though if in that IP range unless you pay

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=423995.msg4615746#msg4615746
New users can now immediately start posting unless they are using suspicious IPs. Suspicious IPs are ones that have been banned previously, or are known proxies, or are near many banned/proxy IPs. If you register using a suspicious IP, you can use most forum features (watchlist, etc.), but you can't post or send PMs until you pay a small fee. In almost all cases, the fee is less than $1. People proxybanned in this way can also be whitelisted by the usual people who can do whitelisting. These IP bans apply only to registration: you can no longer get caught by random IP bans if you're using an established account.

That said if your ever in a bored mood and want to find spammers the patrol page is there
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=recent;patrol

[nimda]

Perhaps the allowed signature styling should change with activity score / membergroup. Like:
- Newbie: No styling (including links) allowed. Max 40 characters.
- Jr. Member: Links allowed. Max 100 characters.
- Member: Unlimited length.
- Full: Color allowed.
- Sr. Member: Size allowed
- Hero: Background color allowed

This is done, except that Newbies can use 50 characters and Jr. Members can use 150 characters. The style limitations are applied immediately, but the size limitations only apply when a signature is updated. Tell me if there are problems.

This is a wonderful improvement. Especially in combination with the activity system, which imposes post and time minimums, this should clean the forums up quite a bit.

[balanghai]

I was busy for the past few months in reporting spam posts. And it seems like I got 100% accuracy so far. Just hit on the "report to moderator" link and you'll see that useless post gone. If it's disallowed, there will be a plunge in activities.

[SlidingHorn]

I was busy for the past few months in reporting spam posts. And it seems like I got 100% accuracy so far. Just hit on the "report to moderator" link and you'll see that useless post gone. If it's disallowed, there will be a plunge in activities.

I report posts as I go, also, but even with a 100% accuracy (do they really keep track?) some threads/posts I've reported are untouched.

[sana8410]

I favor this new improvement. I think this will greatly reduced the spam posts up to 90 percent.

"Spam cannot be totally eradicated it can only be minimized."

[IamCANADIAN013]

While I'm not really a fan of this, I can see why it's needed.  I liked the fact I could see my post so much easier when scrolling by my sig.

I've never understood why people do spam posts. I try to make my posts worth while and hope they add substance to the discussion.  It's a shame we all get punished because of the actions of others, but that's how society seems to work.

I do have a question regarding reporting posts.  If someone reports a post does the person got notified their post has been reported?

[freedomno1]

While I'm not really a fan of this, I can see why it's needed.  I liked the fact I could see my post so much easier when scrolling by my sig.

I've never understood why people do spam posts. I try to make my posts worth while and hope they add substance to the discussion.  It's a shame we all get punished because of the actions of others, but that's how society seems to work.

I do have a question regarding reporting posts.  If someone reports a post does the person got notified their post has been reported?

Its been a while but you should get a message something like this

A reply of yours, quoted below, was deleted by a Bitcoin Forum moderator. Posts are most frequently deleted because they are off-topic, though they can also be deleted for other reasons. In the future, please avoid posting things that need to be deleted.

I think you can appeal it forget the procedure, but the person who reported it gets to keep their privacy.

[vk3ukf]

I have just now attempted to create a new sig.
It keeps getting chopped short.

I attempted to use blue and mysite

It won't let me create a sig.

I can use this

Code:

[url=http://www.vk3ukf.com]VK3UKF[/url]

but not this

Code:

[url=http://www.vk3ukf.com]My amateur radio website VK3UKF[/url]

It appears to have a character length limit imposed on it.
Why?


Where are the instructions to new users on how to use BB codes for signatures on this forum?
I can't find them, despite searching.
Is someone fiddling with the sig code?

[IamCANADIAN013]

I have just now attempted to create a new sig.
It keeps getting chopped short.

I attempted to use blue and mysite

It won't let me create a sig.

I can use this

Code:

[url=http://www.vk3ukf.com]VK3UKF[/url]

but not this

Code:

[url=http://www.vk3ukf.com]My amateur radio website VK3UKF[/url]

It appears to have a character length limit imposed on it.
Why?


Where are the instructions to new users on how to use BB codes for signatures on this forum?
I can't find them, despite searching.
Is someone fiddling with the sig code?

It's because of your member status.  From earlier in this thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=484259.msg5393088#msg5393088

- Newbie: No styling (including links) allowed. Max 40 characters.
- Jr. Member: Links allowed. Max 100 characters.
- Member: Unlimited length.
- Full: Color allowed.
- Sr. Member: Size allowed
- Hero: Background color allowed

Since you are of newbie status, you can't can only use 40 characters, that is why it keeps getting chopped off. Same goes for the color, you have to be a full member.

[vk3ukf]

Thanks IamCANADIAN013, it's always on the page I didn't look at, sigh. sigs are useless here.

Has no-one thought forward as to the implications of this rule that has been implemented.

A newbie is now encouraged to make a pile of useless posts, in order to earn the capability of a full sig.

Now, what appears to be a contradiction.

From the page for newbies.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177133.0

Don't make threads or posts solely for putting up referral links, that's what signatures are for.

and from the very next post,

FORUM RULES

    NO SPAM
    NO BEGGING (AKA ASKING FOR BITCOINS)
    NO REFERRAL LINKS

If no referral links are allowed, why does it say "that is what signatures are for"?
If no begging is allowed, why are there so many sigs with wallet addresses?

I hereby reserve the right to appear stupid, I am a newbie. :-)

[IamCANADIAN013]

Thanks IamCANADIAN013, it's always on the page I didn't look at, sigh. sigs are useless here.

Has no-one thought forward as to the implications of this rule that has been implemented.

A newbie is now encouraged to make a pile of useless posts, in order to earn the capability of a full sig.

Now, what appears to be a contradiction.

From the page for newbies.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177133.0

Don't make threads or posts solely for putting up referral links, that's what signatures are for.

and from the very next post,

FORUM RULES

    NO SPAM
    NO BEGGING (AKA ASKING FOR BITCOINS)
    NO REFERRAL LINKS

If no referral links are allowed, why does it say "that is what signatures are for"?
If no begging is allowed, why are there so many sigs with wallet addresses?

I hereby reserve the right to appear stupid, I am a newbie. :-)

Post count doesn't really influence your rating on here a great deal I believe. From here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=237597.msg2513302#msg2513302

The activity number is determined in this way:
time = number of two-week periods in which you've posted since your registration
activity = min(time * 14, posts)

Activity is updated every 30 minutes.

My understanding of that is that posts are a very small portion of your rating, its more about the time you are on the board.

If a person make a pile of useless posts they can expect to be reported and eventually suspended or banned is my guess.

It's not like this is some kind of race or status thing.  

[Mobo]

This isn't going to help the problem at all.

Shouldve kept it like before... people are still going to make useless posts that have been posted before (repeating) and overall people are going to aim for high statuses and therefore spam.

[CryptKeeper]

The most obvious solution to this is not to count posts of less than 50 words towards post count. (19 words)

Problem solved. People can still make short, one word posts - they just won't contribute to post count. More importantly, the required '50 posts' that people need to make won't happen nearly as quickly, as short posts won't bump the number. (40 words)

Barring that, penalize the advertisers. If an advertiser is generating enough income from posts here, then they can do a better job of checking people using their signatures. (28 words)

(87 words in total)

This would require more staff to moderate this though or the signature advetiser to moderate this because it would take a very long time each day to find out who is posting less than 19 words and who isn't.

+1

You could limit the font size and colours for the signature, that's all you could do without constantly checking new posts!

[apsvinet]

Perhaps the allowed signature styling should change with activity score / membergroup. Like:
- Newbie: No styling (including links) allowed. Max 40 characters.
- Jr. Member: Links allowed. Max 100 characters.
- Member: Unlimited length.
- Full: Color allowed.
- Sr. Member: Size allowed
- Hero: Background color allowed

Then newbies will be less effective advertisers, which would hopefully significantly reduce the incentive for low-content posts. And when people become capable of effectively advertising through their signatures, they'll have invested a lot of time into their accounts, and they won't risk being banned by spamming.

It would indeed decrease the incentive for low content posting, but it would also take away the incentive for high content posting from newbies / jr members like myself that are currently advertising.
Many advertising services already state that they do not support spamming, meaningless posts or general BS, and therefore advertising itself doesn't make people spam.
I think this will hurt the users of the forum, especially the newer members that are actually trying.
Hope you change this again, it's not good.

[apsvinet]

Another issue I clearly see with this is that the advertising services that are going to stick around on this forum ( yes they will ) are going to pay even smaller sums for newbie / jr members, therefore creating an even bigger incentive to post high quantities of low quality posts to make up for 'lost' money in comparison to the full members.

[bitbitz]

This isn't going to help the problem at all.

Shouldve kept it like before... people are still going to make useless posts that have been posted before (repeating) and overall people are going to aim for high statuses and therefore spam.

+1 agreed

[Cryptopher]

This isn't going to help the problem at all.

Shouldve kept it like before... people are still going to make useless posts that have been posted before (repeating) and overall people are going to aim for high statuses and therefore spam.

But you are limited by time, you only need to log in and make 14 posts in a two week period to max out your activity for that term. Of course, people could still post crap to get those 14 posts, but it's not a hard task lol.

[hjbuell]

The most obvious solution to this is not to count posts of less than 50 words towards post count. (19 words)

Problem solved. People can still make short, one word posts - they just won't contribute to post count. More importantly, the required '50 posts' that people need to make won't happen nearly as quickly, as short posts won't bump the number. (40 words)

Barring that, penalize the advertisers. If an advertiser is generating enough income from posts here, then they can do a better job of checking people using their signatures. (28 words)

(87 words in total)

This would require more staff to moderate this though or the signature advetiser to moderate this because it would take a very long time each day to find out who is posting less than 19 words and who isn't.

+1

You could limit the font size and colours for the signature, that's all you could do without constantly checking new posts!

First - your post clearly demonstrates that you have no idea how paid writing works - which is fine. The (19 Words, etc) is simply giving you a visual spot of approximately how many words a post is. An advertiser (not a mod) can easily look at posts and see what they will or will not pay for without actually counting the words. I can sit here all day and tell you within 5 words with content of 50 words. If the forum code that tracks post count can't be modified to track the words or characters per post, then the advertisers can eyeball it. They will quickly get a handle on who is worth paying and who is just crap.

However, that just highlights the problem with this entire thread. None of you really grasp how paid writing works, and so you're applying solutions from your own perspectives that simply aren't going to be effective long term.

Short of eliminating signatures, you aren't going to fix the problem by changing signatures. Instead, you're going to drive off users who would make decent posts to earn a buck - which will only serve to increase the amount of crap in these forums because you're just adding incentive for the third world to make more shitty posts.

Allow me to explain (and really, I am not being an ass, so please forgive me if I come across as one - that's absolutely not my intent).

Third world countries - the ones you see the ads on TV that tell you how $1 a day can feed Sally, or whatever, are actually places you can live for less than $1 a day. You can feed a family for $1 a day in most cases. So that means anyone who has access to an internet cafe (a room filled with computers, all connected to the internet), can go from cafe to cafe in their city (let's assume 7 cafes), and make 14 posts a day on their accounts, even commenting on their own posts from other accounts - or creating foolish threads just to generate more fodder for them to comment on.

That means that in two weeks, they can have 14 accounts rocking the forums, each one making a collective average of 1 post per day. With the post minimums they way they are, those posts can be more or less crap. Every cafe has a different IP, so there is no way you will nail them all. At that rate, someone creative could spend their one day in each cafe, drinking tea (which is so cheap it qualifies as almost free), and making worthless posts about nothing.

The truly creative could one up it even more. Then there are those who +1 their trust in the process (for the truly entrepreneurial). There are some higher level users in these forums I've tracked and been warned of by others who do just that. Look at the trust of some users, and then skim their posts and - surprise - you find whole one sided conversations, with the same tone, character, and prose (or lack thereof in some cases).

So, at the end of the day, you either eliminate signatures, in which case your forums more or less die because your advertisers move away as the forums become a closed group of people increasing their own trust levels and posting crap, or you look at the issue from the perspective of people posting crap, and move it out of their range. When it is no longer possible to post crap, people stop posting crap (outside of the trust system abuse). Plain and simple.

Anyway, good luck with staying relevant in a sea of turds when you've just added incentive for more turds to float out in the forums.

[Cryptopher]

The most obvious solution to this is not to count posts of less than 50 words towards post count. (19 words)

Problem solved. People can still make short, one word posts - they just won't contribute to post count. More importantly, the required '50 posts' that people need to make won't happen nearly as quickly, as short posts won't bump the number. (40 words)

Barring that, penalize the advertisers. If an advertiser is generating enough income from posts here, then they can do a better job of checking people using their signatures. (28 words)

(87 words in total)

I dunno, I believe that paid writing in general is for quality. Whereas let's face it, paid sig advertising is about quantity and exposure.

Spam is great for sig advertising, however, sig advertisement owners such as Satoshi Dice games know that it is not good for the community, could tarnish their image with the said community and ultimately leads to crackdown.

So the sig advertisement owners, like Stunna, take measures to try and reduce the spam by filtering out the spammers - this includes quite a bit of due diligence on his part, but also he asks for the community to report any post abusers to him, such that they will be removed from the campaign.

So filtering out posts for payment based on word count is not that great:

- It means that people like Stunna have to check EVERY single post to get a figure of payment
- Those that post feel that they have to squeeze out extra words just so that their otherwise useless post meets the payment criteria
- Certain folk in the community will still get butthurt as they will say that people are posting exactly x words, mostly filler to meet their target

I don't believe that word count is the way to go, not as a participant of a campaign, or as a member of a community, but at least it's an idea on the table so that has to be appreciated.