I am very confused.

[Red]

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, but your society includes quite a few liberals even if you live in the Deep South. I've lived there before, too, so I know.

You said, "And the things libertarians advocate in the name of being left alone are tremendously destructive to the rest of society." This pretty much implies that if you just let libertarians be, your society is somehow damaged.

What I mean is, the tea party isn't demanding that liberals join in their conservatism ELSE conservatism's plan fails. It means we leave liberals alone to be liberals. Our societal structure isn't damaged by liberals playing there own silly games off by themselves. Never once has a tea partier said, "No liberals! You can't pay more taxes! It fucks up society for the rest of us!"

However, every liberal argument starts with, "Everyone must do (X) or there's no chance (Y) can happen." Notice, most liberal arguments don't even imply that if everyone does (X), (Y) must happen. Only that we really really wish (Y) would happen and we are willing to demand any antecedent that pops into our heads.

I honestly have no idea how this line follows from what I wrote. Are you drunk? You went from assuming all of the protesters were overweight thieves based on a typically inflammatory article from the NY freaking Post and then took it a step further to assume that all college kids are like the protesters. Do I have that right? Also you seem to have assumed that the 18-year-olds today are the children of the 65-year-old hippies, which is... yeah. I give up.

You totally ignored everything I wrote about "properly educated" people failing miserably when given large scale responsibilities. Then you randomly switched the subject to not being "properly educated" as to empathy and that disqualifying people from having "free will". That was the lamest dodge ever. So I trolled you. Duh!

Either you tolerate every human's belief in their own free will. Or you don't get the courtesy of people like me respecting your right to declare your own free will. In no case do you get a free pass to declare there is a "proper free will" and a "delusional free will". That is a definition of tyranny.

[evoorhees]

Defense of the nation is a duty a Democratic government cannot ignore.

If invading countries, toppling foreign governments, and bombing and murdering over a hundred thousands civilians is "defense of the nation," then such a nation is not worthy of defense.

Rarity - if you'd like to fund murder, please do it with your own money. Forcing me to pay for the murder of people around the world is abhorrent.

[becoin]

Defense of the nation is a duty a Democratic government cannot ignore.  I am also a fan of our efforts in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya to overthrow authoritarian governments and replace them with the power of the people.

How are you defending America by bombing people of Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya?

[Red]

People not voting the way you want isn't tyranny. Did the people you know vote for Barack Obama and a Senate controlled by Democrats?  Those are the people you know?   The majority of the country will come around to the leftist point of view, conservative government and rulership by financial elites has not proven worthwhile.

I'm quite certain my folks honored that election. And if you don't remember you folk had the House as well as the Senate. Then you fought amongst yourselves like children and failed to follow through on your own campaign promise. My folks then spoke loudly and took the House back. In a year, "we people" will speak loudly again and take back the Senate and the White House. The math already seem pretty clear on this.

And if it is hard for you to conceive, look no farther then the census. The people are voting with their feet, by moving to conservative states. Now there is a movement to "Occupy Detroit." My god people! You already OWN Detroit! There are no oligarchs left. All the conservatives are gone, the population has fallen by 50%. It's yours! Now fix it!

But don't try to tell me the left can't fix it without the right's help. We are already pretty clear on that.

[becoin]

Defense of the nation is a duty a Democratic government cannot ignore.  I am also a fan of our efforts in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya to overthrow authoritarian governments and replace them with the power of the people.

Where are the 'efforts' of your Democratic government to overthrow authoritarian governments and replace them with the power of the people in places like Bahrain and Saudi Arabia? Just on the contrary, your efforts there are focused to preserve the status quo!

[Rarity]

If invading countries, toppling foreign governments, and bombing and murdering over a hundred thousands civilians is "defense of the nation," then such a nation is not worthy of defense.

Hi folks, I know it can be hard to keep up with me sometimes so you really need to take a minute and carefully consider my words before jumping to conclusions.

Defense of the nation is a duty a Democratic government cannot ignore.  I am also a fan of our efforts in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya to overthrow authoritarian governments and replace them with the power of the people.

The use of the word also here is to let you know I don't consider these two things to be exactly the same.  Overthrowing authoritarian terrorist supporting nations along with allies in NATO and at the UN is an act of defense of the world, not just of one country.

The murderers are the people like Saddam and Gaddafi and bin Laden, not the men and women who sign up to fight for justice and freedom in the armies of America and places like England and Germany and France.

Where are the 'efforts' of your Democratic government to overthrow authoritarian governments and replace them with the power of the people in places like Bahrain and Saudi Arabia? Just on the contrary, your efforts there are focused to preserve the status quo!

I look forward to revolutions in these countries as well, their time will come.  Egypt proved the West doesn't always have to intervene. As powerful as the West is they can't save everyone at once.  Say what you will about Iraq and Libya but ridding the world of those dictators is a far cry from the status quo.  

My folks then spoke loudly and took the House back. In a year, "we people" will speak loudly again and take back the Senate and the White House. The math already seem pretty clear on this.

Oh, your people are Republicans?  Oh, well I'm sure this time they will get it right and the tax cuts will fix the economy and we will be back to the paradise Republican rule left to Obama in 2008!

[­­­Atlas_]

Defense of the nation is a duty a Democratic government cannot ignore.  I am also a fan of our efforts in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya to overthrow authoritarian governments and replace them with the power of the people.

The murderers are the people like Saddam and Gaddafi and bin Laden, not the men and women who sign up to fight for justice and freedom in the armies of America and places like England and Germany and France.

I can tolerate everything else you say. However, when you hide and/or defend murder of tens of thousands of innocent civilians (practically genocide), that's when I draw the line. I am extremely disturbed by your undeterred patriotism and reverence of the state, Rarity.

If you find yourself in a position of power one day, may god (if he exists) help your subordinate's souls.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

You're defending the murders of over 100,000 people caused by the US's invasion. I can't even support that as an equitable opinion. It's disgusting.

[Rarity]

Defense of the nation is a duty a Democratic government cannot ignore.  I am also a fan of our efforts in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya to overthrow authoritarian governments and replace them with the power of the people.

The murderers are the people like Saddam and Gaddafi and bin Laden, not the men and women who sign up to fight for justice and freedom in the armies of America and places like England and Germany and France.

I can tolerate everything else you say. However, when you hide and/or defend murder of tens of thousands of innocent civilians, that's when I draw the line. I am extremely disturbed by your undeterred patriotism and reverence of the state, Rarity.

If you find yourself in a position of power one day, may god (if he exists) help your subordinate's souls.

Hiding murder of civilians, eh?  You seem very eager to forget Bush only acted because of the murder of thousands of American civilians in New York.  I guess a peacenik hippie like you would let that slide, but some of us have friends and family who live in New York and worked in or around those buildings.  

I guess hippie Atlas doesn't care about the millions of children who starved under the UN sanctions regime in Iraq.

http://www.globalissues.org/article/105/effects-of-sanctions

Life is never as simple as it seems through the lenses of simple ideology, leaders must make tough choices.  If people must die, it's better they die for freedom than to starve for nothing like you want Atlas. 

[­­­Atlas_]

Defense of the nation is a duty a Democratic government cannot ignore.  I am also a fan of our efforts in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya to overthrow authoritarian governments and replace them with the power of the people.

The murderers are the people like Saddam and Gaddafi and bin Laden, not the men and women who sign up to fight for justice and freedom in the armies of America and places like England and Germany and France.

I can tolerate everything else you say. However, when you hide and/or defend murder of tens of thousands of innocent civilians, that's when I draw the line. I am extremely disturbed by your undeterred patriotism and reverence of the state, Rarity.

If you find yourself in a position of power one day, may god (if he exists) help your subordinate's souls.

Hiding murder of civilians, eh?  You seem very eager to forget Bush only acted because of the murder of thousands of American civilians in New York.  I guess a peacenik hippie like you would let that slide, but some of us have friends and family who live in New York and worked in or around those buildings.  

Destruction and vengeance builds nothing. It only destroys. We aren't even defending our interests anymore. We are only giving them more incentive to hurt us. We're the enemy now.

Anyways, the losses of 9/11 could of been prevented if the government acted on previous information. The government knew about the attacks before they happened! This could of all been avoided.

[­­­Atlas_]

I guess hippie Atlas doesn't care about the millions of children who starved under the UN sanctions regime in Iraq.

Blind violence isn't an effective solution.

If being a hippy means not compromising when it comes to individual human lives, I'm a hippy.

[Rarity]

Anyways, the losses of 9/11 could of been prevented if the government acted on previous information. The government knew about the attacks before they happened! This could of all been avoided.

And now you sweep away the guilt of the terrorists who murdered thousands and put the blame on Americans, the victims of the attack.  

[­­­Atlas_]

Anyways, the losses of 9/11 could of been prevented if the government acted on previous information. The government knew about the attacks before they happened! This could of all been avoided.

And now you sweep away the guilt of the terrorists who murdered thousands and put the blame on Americans, the victims of the attack.  

Damn right, I am blaming the US government. The facts is they didn't do their job. They didn't do what we pay them to do and that is to defend our sovereignty in face of potential threats.

The terrorists were wrong but so was the government. They practically acted together.

[Red]

Oh, your people are Republicans?  Oh, well I'm sure this time they will get it right and the tax cuts will fix the economy and we will be back to the paradise Republican rule left to Obama in 2008!

Surely John McCain couldn't have done worse handling the responsibility. But yes, I'm looking forward to a return to paradise!

[Rarity]

Anyways, the losses of 9/11 could of been prevented if the government acted on previous information. The government knew about the attacks before they happened! This could of all been avoided.

And now you sweep away the guilt of the terrorists who murdered thousands and put the blame on Americans, the victims of the attack.  

Damn right, I am blaming the US government. The facts is they didn't do their job. They didn't do what we pay them to do and that is to defend our sovereignty in face of potential threats.

The terrorists were wrong but so was the government. They acted practically acted together,

Look, I know it must have been a very scary day for little seven year old Atlas, but some of us were actually adults at the time and have looked in detail at the attacks.  You are espousing a fringe conspiracy theory without any actual basis in fact. One day I hope you can grow up, find The Bridge to Total Freedom like I did, and find some spiritual peace with yourself and the world.

When you falsely tell the murderer the government was his accomplice, you are defending him.  Stop it, it's offensive to the survivors.  They may have not seemed real to you, as a little kid watching this unfold, but they were.

[­­­Atlas_]

Oh, your people are Republicans?  Oh, well I'm sure this time they will get it right and the tax cuts will fix the economy and we will be back to the paradise Republican rule left to Obama in 2008!

Surely John McCain couldn't have done worse handling the responsibility. But yes, I'm looking forward to a return to paradise!

There was never a paradise to begin with. The American government has been declining since 1913. The Clinton surplus was just shifting funds from social security to priorities.

Wake up people!

[tvbcof]

Defense of the nation is a duty a Democratic government cannot ignore.  I am also a fan of our efforts in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya to overthrow authoritarian governments and replace them with the power of the people.

How are you defending America by bombing people of Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya?

Controlling the flow of dwindling energy resources creates a situation where we can extort other nations into supporting our monetary structures.  By 'we', I mean largely the US, but other Western countries can ride along so they can (and do) help pull the wagon.  While there is some 'collateral damage', I doubt that that is the extent of the story...brutalizing and murdering occupied populations is a time-tested and often effective way of maintaining control.

I believe that it is appropriate to label our actions as 'defensive' and that lacking them we would have been forced to 'retreat' from our position on the world stage.  I believe that our actions are also highly unethical...and one of the more valid arguments for weaseling out of paying one's fair share of taxes.

[­­­Atlas_]

Anyways, the losses of 9/11 could of been prevented if the government acted on previous information. The government knew about the attacks before they happened! This could of all been avoided.

And now you sweep away the guilt of the terrorists who murdered thousands and put the blame on Americans, the victims of the attack.  

Damn right, I am blaming the US government. The facts is they didn't do their job. They didn't do what we pay them to do and that is to defend our sovereignty in face of potential threats.

The terrorists were wrong but so was the government. They acted practically acted together,

Look, I know it must have been a very scary day for little seven year old Atlas, but some of us were actually adults at the time and have looked in detail at the attacks.  You are espousing a fringe conspiracy theory without any actual basis in fact. One day I hope you can grow up, find The Bridge to Total Freedom like I did, and find some spiritual peace with yourself and the world.

When you falsely tell the murderer the government was his accomplice, you are defending him.  Stop it, it's offensive to the survivors.  They may have not seemed real to you, as a little kid watching this unfold, but they were.

You want facts; I'll give you facts. See you this evening at the P&S parking lot.

[mobodick]

Hiding murder of civilians, eh?  You seem very eager to forget Bush only acted because of the murder of thousands of American civilians in New York.

LOL!!
Yeah, by sending more americans to their death then the 911 attacks.
And it's still nothing compared to the deaths of local people in those countries.
It really is appalling and bush realy is a war criminal.
But he clearly stated that he rejects the international tribunal.
Go figure.

[Rarity]

Hiding murder of civilians, eh?  You seem very eager to forget Bush only acted because of the murder of thousands of American civilians in New York.

LOL!!
Yeah, by sending more americans to their death then the 911 attacks.
Go figure.

By freeing millions of people from tyranny and beginning the dismantling of Al Qaeda that Obama is finishing.  America's soldiers and allies knew exactly what they were getting in to, and don't need you to spit on their accomplishments.

[mobodick]

Hiding murder of civilians, eh?  You seem very eager to forget Bush only acted because of the murder of thousands of American civilians in New York.

LOL!!
Yeah, by sending more americans to their death then the 911 attacks.
Go figure.

By freeing millions of people from tyranny and beginning the dismantling of Al Qaeda that Obama is finishing.  America's soldiers and allies knew exactly what they were getting in to, and don't need you to spit on their accomplishments.

You mean the Al Qaeda that was trained and weaponized by the US to fight for them against the russians?
That Al Qaeda?
...
I know, it's good that the US is cleaning up their shit.
But why so late?