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Author Topic: 2 suggestions to eliminate bumping services & the spam being encouraged in Anns  (Read 252 times)
hilariousetc
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August 12, 2018, 09:03:50 AM
Merited by suchmoon (7), SFR10 (2), cissrawk (2), Smarty14392 (1)
 #1

1) Make it so that posts from lower ranked members don't bump the thread to the top (ideally up to Member)
2) Get rid of the Announcement board completely and instead charge ICOs a fee to list here and once they do they get their own sub board in the Alt Coin section. If this happens then paid bumping is useless. Many of them would probably like having their own board and they could even be responsible for moderating it or mod it how they like.

ICOs should probably be paying a fee to list here anyway. They get a crazy amount of advertising for free and are probably causing 95% of the staff workload by all the spam and abuse that is happening and staff are left to run around like headless chickens trying to clean it all up. It's about time they have to start compensating for this. Money raised can either go to hiring more staff to combat spam or given to charity.

Thoughts or anyone have any other suggestions to combat this abuse?

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August 12, 2018, 09:17:01 AM
 #2

1) Make it so that posts from lower ranked members don't bump the thread to the top (ideally up to Member)
I think its a good idea to combat the spam. Lets hope these "Member" accounts dont get ranked up by someone "giving" them merits to do so. In which case it would make the idea redundant. It would need a periodical follow up of such accounts which are posting regularly in these thread.

Quote
2) Get rid of the Announcement board completely and instead charge ICOs a fee to list here and once they do they get their own sub board in the Alt Coin section. If this happens then paid bumping is useless. Many of them would probably like having their own board and they could even be responsible for moderating it or mod it how they like.
How would you tackle this - Making a thread in general should not cost money to the thread maker. But specific to the ICO only? That means we would need a paywalled section for posting ICO ANN threads. Maybe do the same for Bounty threads as well and charge payments from "bounty hunters" for joining each bounty?

I kinda feel like a sadist after saying that last line though. But lets see what others have to say.. Grin

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August 12, 2018, 09:25:29 AM
 #3

1) Make it so that posts from lower ranked members don't bump the thread to the top (ideally up to Member)
Could not agree more. Thumbs up!

Other suggestion: In addition...
3)
Maybe up until Junior Member at most. People could be white-listed or purchase a Copper Membership to bypass them also.
Yeah I had the same thought lately.

We can be more flexible by reducing the captcha requirement only for Newbies, if we want.

We already have a restriction for newbies, which is can not posting image not to able to post image. We can easily add the capcha requirement for them as well. Both can be lifted if they buy copper membership.

4) From iasenko: Self-moderated thread initiative. More work for us, less for the Mods.
- On this one, we as a community member take the responsibility to keep the forum clean although this method might easily be used to manipulate a topic the way the OP wants.

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August 12, 2018, 09:53:31 AM
 #4

1) Make it so that posts from lower ranked members don't bump the thread to the top (ideally up to Member)
I think its a good idea to combat the spam. Lets hope these "Member" accounts dont get ranked up by someone "giving" them merits to do so. In which case it would make the idea redundant. It would need a periodical follow up of such accounts which are posting regularly in these thread.

This sort of abuse would be minimal, but there wouldn't be enough merit to go around for them to do this. They create throwaway newbie accounts by the dozens because it's free to do so and nothing is lost if/when they're nuked which most of them are. It just wouldn't be viable or cost effective for them to buy/trade merit to a constant stream of newbie accounts that are getting nuked constantly.

Quote
2) Get rid of the Announcement board completely and instead charge ICOs a fee to list here and once they do they get their own sub board in the Alt Coin section. If this happens then paid bumping is useless. Many of them would probably like having their own board and they could even be responsible for moderating it or mod it how they like.
How would you tackle this - Making a thread in general should not cost money to the thread maker. But specific to the ICO only? That means we would need a paywalled section for posting ICO ANN threads. Maybe do the same for Bounty threads as well and charge payments from "bounty hunters" for joining each bounty?

It should cost to list in the Announcement board, I'm not talking about any others (though I guess you could extend it to Bounties as well if you wanted). You literally would not be able to make a thread in the Ann board until you've paid the fee. You can't post if you're proxy banned until you've paid and this would be similar. You could just make them purchase another additional Member rank that gives them access to it.

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August 12, 2018, 10:29:35 AM
 #5

Nice idea @hilariousetc and I have my own suggestions since from the Biggining of my short carrier in the forum.

  • Merits shouldn't awarded to the post made on ANN threads.
  • Posts in the ANN threads should not counted as an activity.
  • Introduce earned Merit requirement for starting a thread in ANN section.( Most members wouldn't risk their reputation to just get few ICO tokens which can create out of thin air, so my believe is they will moderate the thread that he/she started)

Example - LoyceV's signature campaign with earned Merit requirement
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August 12, 2018, 10:51:28 AM
 #6

1) Make it so that posts from lower ranked members don't bump the thread to the top (ideally up to Member)
2) Get rid of the Announcement board completely and instead charge ICOs a fee to list here and once they do they get their own sub board in the Alt Coin section. If this happens then paid bumping is useless. Many of them would probably like having their own board and they could even be responsible for moderating it or mod it how they like.

ICOs should probably be paying a fee to list here anyway. They get a crazy amount of advertising for free and are probably causing 95% of the staff workload by all the spam and abuse that is happening and staff are left to run around like headless chickens trying to clean it all up. It's about time they have to start compensating for this. Money raised can either go to hiring more staff to combat spam or given to charity.

Thoughts or anyone have any other suggestions to combat this abuse?
I like the second idea a lot, similar to reddit sub-boards, but I doubt theymos to ever implement it, it would take a lot of work, and theymos IS swamped with things, as he has told several times. If ICOs have to pay money, I would suggest theymos to pay a little more to the current staff here. What they are paid != Work they do. They need to be compensated properly.



Nice idea @hilariousetc and I have my own suggestions since from the Biggining of my short carrier in the forum.

  • Merits shouldn't awarded to the post made on ANN threads.
  • Posts in the ANN threads should not counted as an activity.
  • Introduce earned Merit requirement for starting a thread in ANN section.( Most members wouldn't risk their reputation to just get few ICO tokens which can create out of thin air, so my believe is they will moderate the thread that he/she started)

Example - LoyceV's signature campaign with earned Merit requirement


1. Why not? If quality posts could be made there, why should merit not be allowed? Although it is a rarity for that to happen.

2. Not a bad idea, this could help in combating bots, the activity would only count for Full members and above.

3. Please don't. Let merit just be a rank requirement. As it is, not everybody is here for bounty hunting, but for business purposes as well.

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August 12, 2018, 11:04:55 AM
 #7

Merits shouldn't awarded to the post made on ANN threads.
People are free to give merits to whom they want and where they want. Stopping them from doing this would bring out the "Freedom of speech" thought in some people. In fact those people who are meriting ANN threads are going to be wasting their shitposter merits because they want to be noticed by the bounty manager - something like "Notice me senpai" - so it will drain the shitposter merit pool. Which is a good thing and thus I am against your idea.

Quote
Posts in the ANN threads should not counted as an activity.
Simply posting in ANN threads all day? Kinda sucks for those people. Nah you are over-exxagerating it. Getting 14activity for a fortnight just need you to make 1 single post in any section of the forum in that period. If these shitposters are brain-dead to that extent then they need to stop coming to the internet.

Quote
Introduce earned Merit requirement for starting a thread in ANN section.( Most members wouldn't risk their reputation to just get few ICO tokens which can create out of thin air, so my believe is they will moderate the thread that he/she started)
I think paying of a fee to start ANN threads is better. Not every ICO team will have a member here who is ready to earn merits everyday and thus get ready to be able to post an ANN. They often start with an newbie account from scratch. In another sense, it will only promote the merit sales more if you think carefully. There would start a inherent "need" for merit and there will be the abundance of merit with others. So now you can understand what may happen if this would be allowed. Wink

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August 12, 2018, 11:09:51 AM
 #8

  • Merits shouldn't awarded to the post made on ANN threads.
I have seen some replies made in ANN threads which I think is very useful for their community. Sometimes ANN threads are used for communication and sharing of ideas to make their project become more effective in the near future since they do not have a telegram community. Giving merits should be allowed in all section. It is easy to determine if the user is abusing the merit system right? Merits are for all people whose post are useful no matter where/ what section he/she posted.
  • Posts in the ANN threads should not counted as an activity.
Agreed, bots will be useless when it comes to farming activity. 1 merit requirement would be a perfect match for this.
  • Introduce earned Merit requirement for starting a thread in ANN section.( Most members wouldn't risk their reputation to just get few ICO tokens which can create out of thin air, so my believe is they will moderate the thread that he/she started)
I think this would be better requirement when it comes to bounty hunting to ensure that the bounty participants are not spamming and does not create shit posts. Payment for making ANN threads is enough I think, this way we can reduce the number of scammy ICO's. Grin
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August 12, 2018, 11:15:51 AM
 #9

If ICOs have to pay money, I would suggest theymos to pay a little more to the current staff here. What they are paid != Work they do. They need to be compensated properly.

Whilst I don't think many staff members would say no to a raise, we're essentially volunteers here. Theymos did mention changing the mod payment algorithm a while back but I have no idea whether that would lead to an increase of decrease in staff earnings. It depends how it's changed, but I do think the way the payment algorithm works here isn't actually representative of the work being put in i.e. one patroller could maybe handle 500 reports a month and another 5000 and they would both likely get a very similar payment if not the same. Whether I handle zero bans or 1000 I don't think that has any effect on payment either.

Nice idea @hilariousetc and I have my own suggestions since from the Biggining of my short carrier in the forum.

  • Merits shouldn't awarded to the post made on ANN threads.
  • Posts in the ANN threads should not counted as an activity.
  • Introduce earned Merit requirement for starting a thread in ANN section.( Most members wouldn't risk their reputation to just get few ICO tokens which can create out of thin air, so my believe is they will moderate the thread that he/she started)

Example - LoyceV's signature campaign with earned Merit requirement


1) I wouldn't necessarily be against it, but alternatively you could say people should be able to merit whatever they like. I think giving ANN threads merit is largely useless, but if a worthwhile project popped up that could change an industry or was proposing an excellent product then I wouldn't have an issue in meriting that. I think there are bigger issues right now than people meriting ANN threads which seems like a non-issue to me.
2) Wouldn't be against that either, but I think there are boards more suited to activity not counting (bounties etc) and since we have merit shitposting is largely useless without the merit which they wont ever get.
3) I would be against this. Doesn't really solve anything to be honest and it stops new users from posting them and they will just hire other users to do the listing for them. Charging users a fee would just be better in my opinion.

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August 12, 2018, 11:22:45 AM
 #10

1) Good idea but it should be restricted to certain sections only.
2) I prefer to offer 2 alternatives :
First one : ICO don't pay anything but the manager has to open a self-moderated topic and like the wall observer topic, all reports go to the manager and he is obliged to remove the spam or else the topic will get trashed.
Second option : ICOs have to pay a fee that goes to the forum mods to clean the spam out of the forums.



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August 12, 2018, 11:26:59 AM
 #11

1) Good idea but it should be restricted to certain sections only.
2) I prefer to offer 2 alternatives :
First one : ICO don't pay anything but the manager has to open a self-moderated topic and like the wall observer topic, all reports go to the manager and he is obliged to remove the spam or else the topic will get trashed.
Second option : ICOs have to pay a fee that goes to the forum mods to clean the spam out of the forums.


Point number 2, first alternative:
It will never happen. Some ICOs will pay the bumping service (reading the forum is around 50$) to bump their treads, I cant see how the manager can ever report the spam on own thread, more views, more clicks, more google researchs -> more money for bounty manager.
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August 12, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
 #12

1) Good idea but it should be restricted to certain sections only.
2) I prefer to offer 2 alternatives :
First one : ICO don't pay anything but the manager has to open a self-moderated topic and like the wall observer topic, all reports go to the manager and he is obliged to remove the spam or else the topic will get trashed.
Second option : ICOs have to pay a fee that goes to the forum mods to clean the spam out of the forums.


Point number 2, first alternative:
It will never happen. Some ICOs will pay the bumping service (reading the forum is around 50$) to bump their treads, I cant see how the manager can ever report the spam on own thread, more views, more clicks, more google researchs -> more money for bounty manager.

No self-moderated topic = trash can directly + OP ban.
No moderation to the self-moderated topic = trash can directly + OP ban + ICO prohibition on bitcointalk.



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Rainbot
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August 12, 2018, 12:05:23 PM
 #13

1) Good idea but it should be restricted to certain sections only.
2) I prefer to offer 2 alternatives :
First one : ICO don't pay anything but the manager has to open a self-moderated topic and like the wall observer topic, all reports go to the manager and he is obliged to remove the spam or else the topic will get trashed.
Second option : ICOs have to pay a fee that goes to the forum mods to clean the spam out of the forums.


Point number 2, first alternative:
It will never happen. Some ICOs will pay the bumping service (reading the forum is around 50$) to bump their treads, I cant see how the manager can ever report the spam on own thread, more views, more clicks, more google researchs -> more money for bounty manager.

No self-moderated topic = trash can directly + OP ban.
No moderation to the self-moderated topic = trash can directly + OP ban + ICO prohibition on bitcointalk.
Dude,that is way too harsh. Mods are paid to do moderate, while the ICO thread starters aren't. theymos would never implement such a thing. Don't even bother recommending it. h&co has been annoying theymos everyday for years now and he got nothing(as in no reply).

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August 12, 2018, 12:38:03 PM
 #14

1) Make it so that posts from lower ranked members don't bump the thread to the top (ideally up to Member)

Agree, it's good idea. But even just stop posting for newbie on Marketplace ( Altcoins) can possible prevent 80% spam and bump.
Quote
2) Get rid of the Announcement board completely and instead charge ICOs a fee to list here and once they do they get their own sub board in the Alt Coin section. If this happens then paid bumping is useless. Many of them would probably like having their own board and they could even be responsible for moderating it or mod it how they like.

ICOs should probably be paying a fee to list here anyway. They get a crazy amount of advertising for free and are probably causing 95% of the staff workload by all the spam and abuse that is happening and staff are left to run around like headless chickens trying to clean it all up. It's about time they have to start compensating for this. Money raised can either go to hiring more staff to combat spam or given to charity.

Thoughts or anyone have any other suggestions to combat this abuse?

Not agree. Forum will be more spoil. They will just pay fee for board or sub-board and same will promote by alt account instead of bump. How ever it will same spam.
Better solution I think leave it same board. Yes you can suggest for fee on same board but personally I discourage.

I think restrict posting below member & reply / quote restriction below Jr. Member. So below member will not able to make thread , below Jr. will not able to reply or quote. If implement this I believe 80% spam will reduce.

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August 12, 2018, 12:52:38 PM
 #15

1) Make it so that posts from lower ranked members don't bump the thread to the top (ideally up to Member)
I completely agree with this. These will eliminate ICO bumping completely but the spamming will be there as the newbies can post anytime in the thread. Its just it will not go to the top.

What I'm suggesting is to put a rank requirement in the Announcement Section which is not bad I think. Putting a rank requirement there will completely remove the spamming of newbies and some Jr. Members in the section and in order for them to post, they must have a rank of Member up to Legendary or must be a Copper Member. Maybe there are some newbies who are posting good there but removing them completely is the best way for me I think.

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August 12, 2018, 01:23:54 PM
 #16

Silver membership cost 0.02BTC to enable starting a new topic in ANN board.
Also, don't allow newbie posts to bump the threads.
I just plagiarized you Don.

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August 12, 2018, 01:28:03 PM
 #17

1) Make it so that posts from lower ranked members don't bump the thread to the top (ideally up to Member)
Only for certain boards, right? A Newbie with a serious question should still get the attention he needs.

Quote
2) Get rid of the Announcement board completely and instead charge ICOs a fee to list here and once they do they get their own sub board in the Alt Coin section.
That could lead to hundreds of different sub boards, assuming all the ANN-spammers have the budget to pay the fee.

Quote
ICOs should probably be paying a fee to list here anyway. They get a crazy amount of advertising for free
On top of that, some threads pay up to $1000 per week for bump spam. They have high funding and earn millions, let them pay to improve the forum instead of the other way around.

Quote
Money raised can either go to hiring more staff to combat spam or given to charity.
It could even be burned, as a gift to all Bitcoin owners. But it's probably best to use it to improve the forum. The amounts they spend on bump bots could pay for full-time moderation.

  • Merits shouldn't awarded to the post made on ANN threads.
  • Posts in the ANN threads should not counted as an activity.
I disagree with both points. Some posts in ANN-threads deserve merit (example), and the merit traders will just pollute other boards for their business. The same will happen if they can't earn activity there. Lack of Merit is what should stop them from ranking up, not lack of Activity.

2) I prefer to offer 2 alternatives :
First one : ICO don't pay anything but the manager has to open a self-moderated topic and like the wall observer topic, all reports go to the manager and he is obliged to remove the spam or else the topic will get trashed.
This won't work. Bump spam has accomplished it's goal, even if it gets deleted within a few minutes. Even worse: the ANN-threads that are self-moderated, (ab)use that power to delete bump spam to make it less noticeable. The bump bots used to do that on their own, but can't delete their own posts within 24 hours anymore (this restriction was created to stop bump bots).

Silver membership cost 0.02BTC to enable starting a new topic in ANN board.
The payment should be per thread, as the amount of spam increases with each additional thread.
And I don't think it should be a special rank that makes the account look better than it is.

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August 12, 2018, 02:05:16 PM
Merited by hilariousetc (1)
 #18

The ANN Board can be made similar to Ivory Board where only copper members, full members and above can reply to a topic. How about only silver members (as to what digaran suggested) alone can start a topic in ANN boards? Bumping services cannot buy 100s and 500s of copper membership nor they can never receive 100 merits to become a full member in a shorter span. This will leave them to buying only a single copper membership and bumping the thread which can be easily detected and banned. This not only calms down the ANN Board also reduces the Jr and Newbie spams a lot.

P. S There are lots of members apart from staffs who are spending their whole day in the forum. Why can't they be hired to moderate the Altcoin Boards? theymos is literally pretty busy nowadays and I think we won't even see the new forum software until 2019 nor we won't see new members being appointed as mods for altcoin and other boards which needs an additional moderator right now.

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August 12, 2018, 02:40:53 PM
 #19

1) Make it so that posts from lower ranked members don't bump the thread to the top (ideally up to Member)
2) Get rid of the Announcement board completely and instead charge ICOs a fee to list here and once they do they get their own sub board in the Alt Coin section. If this happens then paid bumping is useless. Many of them would probably like having their own board and they could even be responsible for moderating it or mod it how they like.

#1: totally agree.

#2: Would the ICO be able to rename/rebrand itself? Wouldn't the list of boards turn into a similar mess like the ANN board is now? How would the ICOs be sorted in that list?

I wouldn't mind charging a fee as that would take care not only of spamming but also eliminate many cheap scams, but there are some potential loopholes I think.

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August 12, 2018, 02:48:01 PM
 #20

ICOs should probably be paying a fee to list here anyway. They get a crazy amount of advertising for free and are probably causing 95% of the staff workload by all the spam and abuse that is happening and staff are left to run around like headless chickens trying to clean it all up. It's about time they have to start compensating for this. Money raised can either go to hiring more staff to combat spam or given to charity.

Thoughts or anyone have any other suggestions to combat this abuse?
Some of the ICOs are making to much spams here and also encouraging fake deals for investors which would later result in high loss of many peoples!!. I think the listing pattens of ICO should be surely changed and only a legit ICO with reputed or recognized members should be able to announce here!!



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