Bitstamp BLOCKs withdrawals to verified users

[frito]

EDIT after confirming that I am sure I did not receive  any phishing attempt and that I want withdrawals activated it got enabled.
I berried each 4 digit peace of my private key in different place of my compound.

Ive got a verified account there yet I cannot withdraw BTC.
Probably another gox in making.

Anyone else cannot withdraw?

Support response from 25th of Feb:

1) Bitstamp has detected an increase in the number of reports of phishing emails which were also received by some of our clients. Our technical team responded by examining the threat and setting immediate security measures in place to prevent potential risks.

As a precaution we have also applied this security measure to your account.

If you have received any emails with suspicious content and have opened links or attachments we highly recommend that you immediately contact a computer expert.

While we appreciate that this comes as an inconvenience we are convinced that our security precautions are in accordance with your expectations in keeping your account secure.

If you consider that your system was not affected we kindly ask you to notify us in a reply to this ticket so we can enable your withdrawals again.

2) You can change your bank details when you are making a withdrawal. The last used details will stay saved.

If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Best regards,
Blaž Šteblaj

[1715431906]

1715431906

[NLNico]

If they really noticed suspicious login attempts or something like that on your account, then I think this is a great security measure. Looks like all you need to do is reply to them? But good luck and keep us updated.

[V4Vendettas]

I would like you personally welcome you to our "little" Goxxed club that is if you guys don't start up a Shitstammped club of your own or something.

Dicking around aside I really hope none of you get screwed. Fingers crossed for you all.

What I would give to be on your exchange and not gox right now tbh.

[kwest]

This isn't new.. look around in the Bitstamp thread in the Marketplace section.
They are not "goxing" anyone, they are preventing theft.

I can withdraw bitcoin just fine.

[frito]

This isn't new.. look around in the Bitstamp thread in the Marketplace section.
They are not "goxing" anyone, they are preventing theft.

I can withdraw bitcoin just fine.

Yeah thats what gox was doing    -_-

[frito]

This isn't new.. look around in the Bitstamp thread in the Marketplace section.
They are not "goxing" anyone, they are preventing theft.

I can withdraw bitcoin just fine.

why is it that selective then?

I did not get any phishing emails.

[MakeBelieve]

Have you logged into the account with a different username to what you normally would log into the site? They block your account and contact you if this has happend for example using tor.

[frito]

Have you logged into the account with a different username to what you normally would log into the site? They block your account and contact you if this has happend for example using tor.

you can use only one id, I guess u mean wrong login attempts

I dont think one wrong password typin would be a good reason.

[MrPiggles]

I got goxxed by bitstamp months ago.

Support ignores me entirely

[skywave]

If you consider that your system was not affected we kindly ask you to notify us in a reply to this ticket so we can enable your withdrawals again.

You are making a storm in a glass of water!
It is clearly an action to protect you and as they state you simply reply to the ticket and all is good.

I have used Bitstamp for a while and it is a very good and straight-forward exchange.
All BTC I have purchased I always transferred to a private wallet immediately w/o any problem whatsoever.
On top of that I use 2FA.

It is a good exchange IMO

[QueenElizabeth]

I've filled it previously, sent them my id and bill and registration card. Then entered the bank data with swiftcode etc.

Now the ask for this:

We received your withdrawal request. As your withdrawal request met some of our volume and frequency thresholds, we will have to kindly ask you to help us better understand the nature of your relationship with Bitstamp. In order to do so, we require that an additional KYC (know your customer) procedure is completed before we can proceed with the processing of your transfer.

We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image double page of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire:
1. How did you learn about Bitcoin?
2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp?
3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment.
4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange?
5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future?
6. Which bank are you using? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code.

We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket.

Assuming this is true, it's kind of weird, as it does not look remotely similar to KYC questionnaires handed out by traditional banks in the euro area. Of course some of the questions would have to be different, but a bank is not allowed to ask a customer where his/her funds come from. In some countries, tax authorities have the power to go through banking records and ask this very question even in the absence of a subpoena; what banks can do is transmit information on suspicious transfers to the proper government offices, but they are not directly interacting with the client on the matter of where the money comes from.

I would be more worried about malicious use of this data on the part of Bitstamp than anything.

The request about mining equipment specification baffles me entirely.

[gog1]

he can go back and enjoy trading on gox

[OnkelPaul]

Don't know about the details of your attempted transaction that would trigger their KYC machinery, but you're probably not just trying to withdraw 0.5 BTC or 300$ or similar neglectable amounts.

So if their KYC rules require you to answer their question, you should probably answer them:
>1. How did you learn about Bitcoin?
Read about it on the interwebs.
>2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp?
Become filthy rich.
>3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment.
I got them in return for a pizza in 2010.
>4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange?
If I have to answer more of these questions, my plan is to leave your exchange for good.
>5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future?
Yes, until all of my money is in my bank account and my BTCs are in my wallet.
>6. Which bank are you using? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code.
I already did, don't you keep records?

Onkel Paul

[skywave]

I've filled it previously, sent them my id and bill and registration card. Then entered the bank data with swiftcode etc.

Now the ask for this:

We received your withdrawal request. As your withdrawal request met some of our volume and frequency thresholds, we will have to kindly ask you to help us better understand the nature of your relationship with Bitstamp. In order to do so, we require that an additional KYC (know your customer) procedure is completed before we can proceed with the processing of your transfer.

We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image double page of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire:
1. How did you learn about Bitcoin?
2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp?
3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment.
4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange?
5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future?
6. Which bank are you using? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code.

We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket.

Is this a request/ticket via their official site while you are logged into your account?
Or is it an email?
First check if it is a legit email sender from Bitstamp.

[5flags]

FUD. Pure and simple.

Perhaps they should give your coins to anyone who sounds like you. Of course, then you'd be complaining that you got Gox'd.

Grow up.

[ljudotina]

OP did you respond to them as they asked before writing it on this forum?
Where EXACTLY is problem? All they ask from you is to respond to them. How did you get to conclusion that it's another gox in the making?!

[skywave]

@OnkelPaul - excellent LOL

[MrPiggles]

I wish they'd ask me some KYC questions, I just get ignored.

Funny thing is I moved at least 60k out, but 4k set them off and they asked me for more ID.

[Lethn]

I'm baffled by this as Bitstamp aren't widely known to pull these kind of bullshit manoeuvres but there have been complaints about this sort of thing with people who are from places like Slovakia, what country are you from?

[Sheldor333]

As has been repeatedly said, Bitstamp is not regulated. Just because they have a KYC procedure doesn't mean they do things properly.
They are still mixing all client funds on a corporate account, without any kind of financial license whatsoever.
This will end bad, when UniCredit decides the party is over, then the party is over, Bitstamp gets sued in Slovenia, fined, pays the fine from customer deposits (which are legally their property since they sit on the corporate account), just like this happened to MtGox in France in 2011.
Kraken is in the same case, friendly bank, for now, but zero financial compliance despite all their marketing efforts to advertise the opposite.
The easy way to see this kind of stuff is :
-Are you sending funds to an account in the name of the company owning the exchange? Yes? Bad.
-Is there any sort of financial registration number in their ToS? No? Bad.
The same happened to MtGox in France in 2012, in the US in 2013 and will repeatedly happen until bitcoiners go through the trouble of actually reading the ToS of exchanges with which they sign-up.

[5flags]

I'm baffled by this as Bitstamp aren't widely known to pull these kind of bullshit manoeuvres but there have been complaints about this sort of thing with people who are from places like Slovakia, what country are you from?

Perhaps they should ask no questions, then customer coins can get stolen and the Bitstamp bank account can get seized - and we can all complain we got gox'd.

My 30 day volume is measured in millions. I withdraw all the time and have never been asked any questions.

[frito]

I'm baffled by this as Bitstamp aren't widely known to pull these kind of bullshit manoeuvres but there have been complaints about this sort of thing with people who are from places like Slovakia, what country are you from?

Bitstamp is on balkan former Yugoslavia.

[5flags]

I'm baffled by this as Bitstamp aren't widely known to pull these kind of bullshit manoeuvres but there have been complaints about this sort of thing with people who are from places like Slovakia, what country are you from?

Bitstamp is on balkan former Yugoslavia.

Plenty of people get confused between Slovenia and Slovakia

Both beautiful places by the way.

[MrPiggles]

My 30 day volume is measured in millions. I withdraw all the time and have never been asked any questions.

yeah but that doesn't mean they can't pull bullshit moves on other people.

Their support is terrible.

I admit I used a fake name when I set it up, so I asked for problems, but now it's been months of me being ignored.

[5flags]

Their support is terrible.

I admit I used a fake name when I set it up, so I asked for problems, but now it's been months of me being ignored.

With the greatest of respect, you're an idiot.

They HAVE to comply with KYC and AML laws. If they don't, their business and our funds are at risk. How do you NOT get that. This isn't an unregulated alt exchange - Bitstamp interfaces with the fiat banking system, if they don't play by the fiat banking system's rules, they are finished.

How they didn't terminate your account and ban you is beyond me.

[MrPiggles]

With the greatest of respect, you're an idiot.

They HAVE to comply with KYC and AML laws. If they don't, their business and our funds are at risk. How do you NOT get that. This isn't an unregulated alt exchange - Bitstamp interfaces with the fiat banking system, if they don't play by the fiat banking system's rules, they are finished.

How they didn't terminate your account and ban you is beyond me.

Lol "professional anarchist" telling me I have to play by the rules.

[5flags]

Lol "professional anarchist" telling me I have to play by the rules.

If you want to interface with the fiat banking system, you have absolutely no choice.

If you don't want to interface with banks, go on to LocalBitcoins and buy for cash.

[Shawshank]

I was asked those same questions one month ago. After answering them, I withdrew my funds without issues.

I have been honest with all the information I provided to Bitstamp, but for whatever reason, I cannot withdraw bitcoin funds at the moment.

[bananas]

This.

Assuming this is true, it's kind of weird, as it does not look remotely similar to KYC questionnaires handed out by traditional banks in the euro area. Of course some of the questions would have to be different, but a bank is not allowed to ask a customer where his/her funds come from. In some countries, tax authorities have the power to go through banking records and ask this very question even in the absence of a subpoena; what banks can do is transmit information on suspicious transfers to the proper government offices, but they are not directly interacting with the client on the matter of where the money comes from.

I would be more worried about malicious use of this data on the part of Bitstamp than anything.

The request about mining equipment specification baffles me entirely.

[Shawshank]

This.

Assuming this is true, it's kind of weird, as it does not look remotely similar to KYC questionnaires handed out by traditional banks in the euro area. Of course some of the questions would have to be different, but a bank is not allowed to ask a customer where his/her funds come from. In some countries, tax authorities have the power to go through banking records and ask this very question even in the absence of a subpoena; what banks can do is transmit information on suspicious transfers to the proper government offices, but they are not directly interacting with the client on the matter of where the money comes from.

I would be more worried about malicious use of this data on the part of Bitstamp than anything.

The request about mining equipment specification baffles me entirely.

I am quite convinced Bitstamp is not using this information maliciously. They have always provided an excellent service, very professional.

[crazy_rabbit]

With the greatest of respect, you're an idiot.

They HAVE to comply with KYC and AML laws. If they don't, their business and our funds are at risk. How do you NOT get that. This isn't an unregulated alt exchange - Bitstamp interfaces with the fiat banking system, if they don't play by the fiat banking system's rules, they are finished.

How they didn't terminate your account and ban you is beyond me.

Lol "professional anarchist" telling me I have to play by the rules.

He's right though and depending how much money you had on the exchange, you might have committed a financial crime by lying about your identity. Using a fake name and withdrawing/depositing money under it, IS money laundering, and what you have done, a crime.

Bitstamps best course of action at this point is to actually just seize your funds and block your account. What they do with that money they will have to let lawyers decide at some later date, but most likely they will just let it sit on their balance for years before attempting to do anything with it. You've committed a crime and attempted to make them your accomplice. Until they have better guidance from the government on what to do, the best thing is to do nothing- including not responding to your support emails (as they could say something that would get them in trouble later on). They will probably pass on your details to whichever financial enforcement agency is responsible and let them decide to prosecute you or not at their leisure.

Either way, you've essentially forfeited your money in the near-term.

[crazy_rabbit]

I'm baffled by this as Bitstamp aren't widely known to pull these kind of bullshit manoeuvres but there have been complaints about this sort of thing with people who are from places like Slovakia, what country are you from?

Bitstamp is on balkan former Yugoslavia.

It's also in the UK. I am unsure of which legal jurisdiction they are technically in.

[5flags]

"a bank is not allowed to ask a customer where his/her funds come from."

That's simply not the case.

"The request about mining equipment specification baffles me entirely."

There's another exchange I use...possibly MintPal which doesn't allow deposits from mining pools. I'm sure this is a technical issue to do with freshly mined coins.

[bananas]

Absolutely no FUD intended and no paranoia, but it is looking live they are not solvent either. Some people were warning about Gox for a VERY long time and nobody took seriously. The behaviour of Bitstamp is getting similar to Gox's long time ago.

Many people are reporting withdrawal problems.
And that supposed KYC/AML is absolute BS.

[5flags]

What crazy_rabbit said +1

[MrPiggles]

He's right though and depending how much money you had on the exchange, you might have committed a financial crime by lying about your identity. Using a fake name and withdrawing/depositing money under it, IS money laundering, and what you have done, a crime.
 

Either way, you've essentially forfeited your money in the near-term.

I withdrew it to accounts with no name on.

So I bought/sold btc in a fake name, and deposited them to accounts with no name.

In what country is using a fake name to sell bitcoins illegal?

What law was broken by registering on a slovenian site with a fake name?

[5flags]

but it is looking live they are not solvent either.

FUD. Ignorance. Wilful stupidity. Call it what you want.

If your bank froze your funds on suspicion of potentially criminal activity, would you suspect they were insolvent? Engage the grey matter please.

[V4Vendettas]

"a bank is not allowed to ask a customer where his/her funds come from."

That's simply not the case.

"The request about mining equipment specification baffles me entirely."

There's another exchange I use...possibly MintPal which doesn't allow deposits from mining pools. I'm sure this is a technical issue to do with freshly mined coins.

My banks is always asking where my money comes from and what I am doing with it. Personally I find it bloody rude of them and always answer with "magic internet moneyz" and they dont stop me so ..shrugs.

[5flags]

My banks is always asking where my money comes from and what I am doing with it. Personally I find it bloody rude of them and always answer with "magic internet moneyz" and they dont stop me so ..shrugs.

I've had my account frozen once for trading on LocalBitcoins when someone used a stolen bank account to buy coins from me. When the fraud guy asked me why there were deposits from dozens of different people each week, I was very tempted to say that "I was laundering money so I could more easily buy drugs, guns and child pornography for a terrorist training camp that I run in Afghanistan".

Tempted. But I resisted. Probably wisely.

[bananas]

but it is looking live they are not solvent either.

FUD. Ignorance. Wilful stupidity. Call it what you want.

If your bank froze your funds on suspicion of potentially criminal activity, would you suspect they were insolvent? Engage the grey matter please.

It just wont ever happen to me or anyone, banks are not allowed to do that, only authorities can.

[MrPiggles]

It just wont ever happen to me or anyone, banks are not allowed to do that, only authorities can.

Banks do it all the time.

I have accounts with 3 different banks in the UK alone so that when one gets frozen I can use another.

Plus prepaid cards.

Anyone who travels a lot, if you don't constantly inform your bank where you will be on what days...will get their accounts frozen

[5flags]

It just wont ever happen to me or anyone, banks are not allowed to do that, only authorities can.

That's absolutely incorrect. My account has previously been frozen by my bank on suspicion of wrong doing without the authorities being involved. At no point did I suspect they were insolvent.

Banks have an obligation, to their customers, to their shareholders and to the authorities.

[bananas]

It just wont ever happen to me or anyone, banks are not allowed to do that, only authorities can.

Banks do it all the time.

I have accounts with 3 different banks in the UK alone so that when one gets frozen I can use another.

Plus prepaid cards.

Anyone who travels a lot, if you don't constantly inform your bank where you will be on what days...will get their accounts frozen

Those are measures to protect you, yes, you have to inform them that you are using your cards and accounts overseas so they know it is you. They won't and they can't frozen because they think you may be somthing like a criminal or whatever.

[5flags]

They won't and they can't frozen because they think you may be somthing like a criminal or whatever.

You're obviously beyond reason. Or have never used a bank. Or were born this morning.

[bananas]

They won't and they can't frozen because they think you may be somthing like a criminal or whatever.

You're obviously beyond reason. Or have never used a bank. Or were born this morning.

Man, i'm not only very experienced with my own accounts but i've worked on a major bank long time ago. I'm not in europe, but procedures are worldwide standards.

[5flags]

Man, i'm not only very experienced with my own accounts but i've worked on a major bank long time ago. I'm not in europe, but procedures are worldwide standards.

You're right. I must have imagined my account being frozen.

[bananas]

Man, i'm not only very experienced with my own accounts but i've worked on a major bank long time ago. I'm not in europe, but procedures are worldwide standards.

You're right. I must have imagined my account being frozen.

You did not, a fraud investigation was in course and you got involved. That's a case when it may happen, anyway it was to protect the account holders from fraud, it had nothing to do KYC/AML or any other interest of the state. How the other user reported it may also get frozen when in a trip, it is to protecct you. In a summary, frozen account are to protect the funds of a account holders, it is never to policy them like the police do. Employees must keep all information confidential even inside the bank, they are trained to not ask anything ( except when you are opning an account, they want you to prove income to have the account and that's it ). AML resumes to indentify the customer, reporting all transactions to the authorities every year thru' and following the strict procedures of sending money overseas. BTC is not even money.

[MrPiggles]

they are trained to not ask anything ( except when you are opning an account,

not in the UK. MrsPiggles used to work in a bank and they are trained to sneakily ask AML questions during normal transactions.

If I go and withdraw even £1500 I'll probably be explicitly asked "what for"

if I deposit regularly I'll be asked what the cash is from

[bananas]

I think the discussion is getting pointless i believe. Fact is , be they right or wrong on what they are doing, they are doing just like Gox. Bitstamp should give full and proven explanation about that to get any doubts out of the way. The community should not accept any Gox behaviour patterns anywhere, or the same shit may happen again.

[eldentyrell]

I'm baffled by this as Bitstamp aren't widely known to pull these kind of bullshit manoeuvres

Um, what rock have you been living under?

Bitstamp is #1 for using AML-KYC to screw people out of their money.

The only difference at gox is that they don't bother with the excuses.

[Shawshank]

It just wont ever happen to me or anyone, banks are not allowed to do that, only authorities can.

Banks do it all the time.

I have accounts with 3 different banks in the UK alone so that when one gets frozen I can use another.

Plus prepaid cards.

Anyone who travels a lot, if you don't constantly inform your bank where you will be on what days...will get their accounts frozen

Those are measures to protect you, yes, you have to inform them that you are using your cards and accounts overseas so they know it is you. They won't and they can't frozen because they think you may be somthing like a criminal or whatever.

Not only can banks reject a transfer if they feel you are a criminal. Merchants receive a gift from payment processors if they withhold a blacklisted credit card.

[5flags]

I have a problem with people claiming Bitstamp is better than Gox or Btc-e, because they are the same.

Them be fightin' words.

Everyone who saw Gox have their bank/Dwolla accounts frozen needs their head looking at if they didn't figure out they were insolvent.

Being a company doesn't make them trustworthy - how they conduct their business is what makes them trustworthy (or not).

They are registered as a company and pay tax in the UK - at least they will. Their accounts are due at the end of April.

They have an EU bank account, which means the beneficial owners have have to satisfy the AML and KYC criteria of an EU bank.

Are they better of Gox? Of course. But only because of how they conduct themselves. I don't have enough experience of BTC-E.

I have an a company and bank account in the Seychelles - even they have to saitsfy AML and KYC laws. Otherwise they don't get to play with the big countries.

[5flags]

I think the discussion is getting pointless i believe. Fact is , be they right or wrong on what they are doing, they are doing just like Gox. Bitstamp should give full and proven explanation about that to get any doubts out of the way. The community should not accept any Gox behaviour patterns anywhere, or the same shit may happen again.

They published on this:

https://www.bitstamp.net/article/Statement-by-Bitstamp-regarding-MtGox-insolv/

[5flags]

Bitstamp is #1 for using AML-KYC to screw people out of their money.

Based on what?

We have people on here saying they set up accounts with fake names then complaining at how they are treated.

[bananas]

I think the discussion is getting pointless i believe. Fact is , be they right or wrong on what they are doing, they are doing just like Gox. Bitstamp should give full and proven explanation about that to get any doubts out of the way. The community should not accept any Gox behaviour patterns anywhere, or the same shit may happen again.

They published on this:

https://www.bitstamp.net/article/Statement-by-Bitstamp-regarding-MtGox-insolv/

I mean, they have to prove their withdrawal blocks(specially those of BTC, as it is not a currency) and funny questions are legit and an exigence of the law. They must do it, we can't just go thru's good faith anymore.

[crazy_rabbit]

He's right though and depending how much money you had on the exchange, you might have committed a financial crime by lying about your identity. Using a fake name and withdrawing/depositing money under it, IS money laundering, and what you have done, a crime.
 

Either way, you've essentially forfeited your money in the near-term.

I withdrew it to accounts with no name on.

So I bought/sold btc in a fake name, and deposited them to accounts with no name.

In what country is using a fake name to sell bitcoins illegal?

What law was broken by registering on a slovenian site with a fake name?

I think actually every country- at least every country with a modern functioning financial system, which includes the UK or Slovenia, wherever they are located.

Replace Bitcoin with "Financial instrument" and I think that should give you an idea of what you've done. Maybe governments didn't CARE about bitcoin when it was worth a few dollars each, but they aren't obligated to enforce every law on the book, they are usually content just HAVING the law on the book, and now that Bitcoin is worth real money- I think every modern country in the world would view what you've done as money laundering.

I withdrew it to accounts with no name on.

So I bought/sold btc in a fake name, and deposited them to accounts with no name.

So yeah, you're a criminal in the eye's of the financial regulators. Whether or not they go after you is up to them and whether or not they can find you. They CAN however find Bitstamp, so they have prudently seized your funds to play nice with the police if they ever show up. That said- technically unless you have a government ID with your 'Fake Name' you're pretty much screwed even if weren't illegal (which it most certainly is). If you registered as "Buttlick McBalls" Bitstamp is well within it's rights to ask for your government ID with said name on it.  From bitstamps point of view (not considering the criminal element), until Mr McBalls shows up, that money can very nicely pad their 'reserves' for a rainy day.

Good luck.

[eldentyrell]

Bitstamp is #1 for using AML-KYC to screw people out of their money.

Based on what?

facts.

[MrPiggles]

I think actually every country- at least every country with a modern functioning financial system, which includes the UK or Slovenia, wherever they are located.

Replace Bitcoin with "Financial instrument" and I think that should give you an idea of what you've done. Maybe governments didn't CARE about bitcoin when it was worth a few dollars each, but they aren't obligated to enforce every law on the book, they are usually content just HAVING the law on the book, and now that Bitcoin is worth real money- I think every modern country in the world would view what you've done as money laundering.

So yeah, you're a criminal in the eye's of the financial regulators. Whether or not they go after you is up to them and whether or not they can find you. They CAN however find Bitstamp, so they have prudently seized your funds to play nice with the police if they ever show up. That said- technically unless you have a government ID with your 'Fake Name' you're pretty much screwed even if weren't illegal (which it most certainly is). If you registered as "Buttlick McBalls" Bitstamp is well within it's rights to ask for your government ID with said name on it.  From bitstamps point of view (not considering the criminal element), until Mr McBalls shows up, that money can very nicely pad their 'reserves' for a rainy day.

Good luck.

lol bollocks.

At no point whilst I was trading on this particular account was bitcoin classed as a financial instrument anywhere in the world.

You might as well claim that selling stamps on eBay is money laundering

[bananas]

Remember mates, BTC is not money.

[MrPiggles]

What about all the trades on localbitcoins where I don't give a name? is that also money laundering and the police are just waiting to arrest me?

[eldentyrell]

(governments) aren't obligated to enforce every law on the book, they are usually content just HAVING the law on the book

This is simply evil and, in my personal opinion, flagrantly immoral.  In my book it completely undermines a government's legitimacy.

The first country to make "the state failed to enforce it uniformly" a valid defense against charges of breaking a law will win at least a few wealthy immigrants happy to pay lots of tax.  Without "failure to enforce" as a defense, the legislature has no incentive to limit the scope of the law.

If the public prosecutor's budget exceeds the public defender's budget, the court is illegitimate.

If private citizens cannot file for criminal indictment (at their own expense), the court is illegitimate.

[crazy_rabbit]

No no, I agree banks can freeze accounts.
But we are talking about a really grey company - Bitstamp.
* They are registered in UK but their bank is in Slovenia.
* They are NOT A BANK.
* No AML or KYC rules for businesses require what they ask for.

No let me explain this, I'm running a EU business and I know what I'm talking about. NO NON BANKING COMPANY ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD IS ALLOWED TO TAKE DEPOSITS. Even god damn Seychelles do not allow this (had an offshore). So either this is going through their books as sale/return of a product (that's what my local law is saying, but they will take VAT because of this) or something else.

Nowhere can you find any data on their registration. Nothing else. They are AS shady as BTC-E.
Now I have no problem with btc-e - there must be a free market like silkroad - and they must remain silent.
I have a problem with people claiming Bitstamp is better than Gox or Btc-e, because they are the same.


I really hope this problem will resolve and I receive my funds. I will update this topic but for now 5 hours passed without any answer from Bitstamp which is concerning.

Yes but are you running a money services business? Or an Exchange business? Even if what they were doing was illegal, (which I highly doubt) you would still need to go to court to settle the issue. In this case, bitstamp needs only say they were being cautious and any judge on earth will probably agree with them that withholding your money was the right thing to do. Remember, if they SUSPECT maybe there is a chance you're committing a crime, their lawyers can advise them to do all sorts of things in order to cover their own asses.


As for how "shady" they are. They list their address. Go visit if it's a problem for you. They aren't hiding. They go to all the conferences, and give interviews, etc... I understand you're upset, but why don't you just answer their questions? If you don't have anything to hide- then you will be fine. If you do have something to hide- they have rightfully suspected you of it. So......

[crazy_rabbit]

What about all the trades on localbitcoins where I don't give a name? is that also money laundering and the police are just waiting to arrest me?

You obviously didn't read the news about the guys in Miami who were arrested for buying/selling Bitcoins on LocalBitcoins.

http://www.coindesk.com/localbitcoins-users-criminal-charges-florida/


Like I said, the laws are on the books- it's up to governments to decide how and when they feel like enforcing them.

That said- there is some sort of lower limit you have to meet before the government considers what you are doing a crime. That said, there is also a law about deliberately staying below the lower limit specifically not to hit that lower limit. So, play nice.

[eldentyrell]

If you don't have anything to hide- then you will be fine. If you do have something to hide- they have rightfully suspected you of it. So......

First they came for the people with nothing to hide.  Then,

[crazy_rabbit]

(governments) aren't obligated to enforce every law on the book, they are usually content just HAVING the law on the book

This is simply evil and, in my personal opinion, flagrantly immoral.  In my book it completely undermines a government's legitimacy.

The first country to make "the state failed to enforce it uniformly" a valid defense against charges of breaking a law will win at least a few wealthy immigrants happy to pay lots of tax.  Without "failure to enforce" as a defense, the legislature has no incentive to limit the scope of the law.

If the public prosecutor's budget exceeds the public defender's budget, the court is illegitimate.

It's probably less immoral then hiring an army of police to enforce both laws against murder and spitting on the sidewalk at the same time. They enforce what they think is worth while enforcing. Things that are genuinely dangerous for society and things that have nice big fat monetary penalties that the legal system gets to keep, tend to be high on the list of enforced laws.

Just how it goes. Immoral or not.

[bananas]

I've sent a freezer, 3 pans, one Iphone 5 and two Magic the Gathering packs to Amazon's Warehouse deals. I decided later i did not want to trade it anymore,  before they could send it back to me they sent me the following questions:

We received your withdrawal request. As your withdrawal request met some of our volume and frequency thresholds, we will have to kindly ask you to help us better understand the nature of your relationship with Amazon Warehouse deals. In order to do so, we require that an additional KYC (know your customer) procedure is completed before we can proceed with the processing of your transfer.

We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image double page of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire:

1. How did you learn about Warehouse Deals?
2. The purpose of trading on Warehouse deals?
3. What is the origin of the shipped items? If manufacturing, please specify your industrial machinery specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your manufacturing equipment.
4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange?
5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future?
6. Which bank are you using? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code.

We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket.

Anna Lars
Amazon Warehouse Deals

[MrPiggles]

What about all the trades on localbitcoins where I don't give a name? is that also money laundering and the police are just waiting to arrest me?

You obviously didn't read the news about the guys in Miami who were arrested for buying/selling Bitcoins on LocalBitcoins.


Like I said, the laws are on the books- it's up to governments to decide how and when they feel like enforcing them.

That said- there is some sort of lower limit you have to meet before the government considers what you are doing a crime. That said, there is also a law about deliberately staying below the lower limit specifically not to hit that lower limit. So, play nice.

I'm not in Florida, so what the hell does Florida have to do with me?

Those idiots made themselves party to a criminal conspiracy by being utterly retarded, entrapment is legal in the land of the free. It isn't here.

[5flags]

facts.

I think you're confused on what facts are.

Anything independent and reliable? Or just your say so?

[frito]

No no, I agree banks can freeze accounts.
But we are talking about a really grey company - Bitstamp.
* They are registered in UK but their bank is in Slovenia.
* They are NOT A BANK.
* No AML or KYC rules for businesses require what they ask for.

No let me explain this, I'm running a EU business and I know what I'm talking about. NO NON BANKING COMPANY ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD IS ALLOWED TO TAKE DEPOSITS. Even god damn Seychelles do not allow this (had an offshore). So either this is going through their books as sale/return of a product (that's what my local law is saying, but they will take VAT because of this) or something else.

Nowhere can you find any data on their registration. Nothing else. They are AS shady as BTC-E.
Now I have no problem with btc-e - there must be a free market like silkroad - and they must remain silent.
I have a problem with people claiming Bitstamp is better than Gox or Btc-e, because they are the same.

I really hope this problem will resolve and I receive my funds. I will update this topic but for now 5 hours passed without any answer from Bitstamp which is concerning.

it takes them usually 24h or more to respond, sometimes up to 2-3 days

[crazy_rabbit]

If you don't have anything to hide- then you will be fine. If you do have something to hide- they have rightfully suspected you of it. So......

First they came for the people with nothing to hide.  Then,

Except of course, Bistamp isn't 'they'. It's not a government or overly powerful monopoly. It's the opposite. Bitstamp is similarly just as scared and nervous about being unfairly singled out by the government as OP is of them.

The way the law is written, entities like Bitstamp (Not only banks, but other organizations dealing with money like this as well) are legally obliged to take precautions that include REPORTING YOU TO THE GOVERNMENT only based on the SUSPICION you might be doing something wrong. They don't have to prove or know anything conclusive about you. So yes, it feels a bit like "thought crime" but thats the law they are forced to adhere to. Charlie Shrem should have taken a hint himself.

[eldentyrell]

They enforce what they think is worth while enforcing.

That is not "rule of law".

[frito]

I'm baffled by this as Bitstamp aren't widely known to pull these kind of bullshit manoeuvres

Um, what rock have you been living under?

Bitstamp is #1 for using AML-KYC to screw people out of their money.

The only difference at gox is that they don't bother with the excuses.

heh
hope not

[eldentyrell]

Except of course, Bistamp isn't 'they'. It's not a government

Oh right, AML-KYC laws just fall out of the sky.  No governments involved.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[frito]

No no, I agree banks can freeze accounts.
But we are talking about a really grey company - Bitstamp.
* They are registered in UK but their bank is in Slovenia.
* They are NOT A BANK.
* No AML or KYC rules for businesses require what they ask for.

No let me explain this, I'm running a EU business and I know what I'm talking about. NO NON BANKING COMPANY ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD IS ALLOWED TO TAKE DEPOSITS. Even god damn Seychelles do not allow this (had an offshore). So either this is going through their books as sale/return of a product (that's what my local law is saying, but they will take VAT because of this) or something else.

Nowhere can you find any data on their registration. Nothing else. They are AS shady as BTC-E.
Now I have no problem with btc-e - there must be a free market like silkroad - and they must remain silent.
I have a problem with people claiming Bitstamp is better than Gox or Btc-e, because they are the same.

I really hope this problem will resolve and I receive my funds. I will update this topic but for now 5 hours passed without any answer from Bitstamp which is concerning.

brokerage firms can take your money in the EU.

[crazy_rabbit]

What about all the trades on localbitcoins where I don't give a name? is that also money laundering and the police are just waiting to arrest me?

You obviously didn't read the news about the guys in Miami who were arrested for buying/selling Bitcoins on LocalBitcoins.


Like I said, the laws are on the books- it's up to governments to decide how and when they feel like enforcing them.

That said- there is some sort of lower limit you have to meet before the government considers what you are doing a crime. That said, there is also a law about deliberately staying below the lower limit specifically not to hit that lower limit. So, play nice.

I'm not in Florida, so what the hell does Florida have to do with me?

Those idiots made themselves party to a criminal conspiracy by being utterly retarded, entrapment is legal in the land of the free. It isn't here.

I don't know where you live- I'm just giving you an example related to your question. Sure these guys are idiots- but nothing stoping any other state, or government from doing the exact same thing. Heck for all we know, some local sheriff could set up a localbitcoins sting purely with the intention of getting to keep the seized funds to buy a new cruiser after you're convicted as guilty.

Anyway, I was just trying to make the point that the government is hard to predict at the moment concerning bitcoin, but using a fake name is indeed, technically, illegal. (Depending)

But of course, get your own legal advice. None of what I say constitutes it. :-)

[crazy_rabbit]

They enforce what they think is worth while enforcing.

That is not "rule of law".

I don't disagree on that point. Indeed I think leaving unenforced laws on the books is dangerous and potentially tyrannical. If I recall correctly, it's only recently that oral sex laws in the south (In the USA) were judged unconstitutional, and it only came up after someone got caught by the police giving a blowjob or something like that and they decided to charge them with it. (Might have my details wrong).

Anyway, I think we agree on this point.

[MrPiggles]

I don't know where you live- I'm just giving you an example related to your question. Sure these guys are idiots- but nothing stoping any other state, or government from doing the exact same thing. Heck for all we know, some local sheriff could set up a localbitcoins sting purely with the intention of getting to keep the seized funds to buy a new cruiser after you're convicted as guilty.

Anyway, I was just trying to make the point that the government is hard to predict at the moment concerning bitcoin, but using a fake name is indeed, technically, illegal. (Depending)

But of course, get your own legal advice. None of what I say constitutes it. :-)

You pointed to a completely irrelevant situation where two guys were not only breaking state laws that explicitly prohibited what they were doing but also agreed to sell to undercover agents AFTER they told them they planned to use them illegally.

That isn't that unpredictable of an action from the government in the USA.

And I am 100% confident my government wouldn't do similar.

Fact is, using a fake name on my bitstamp account is no more illegal than me using a fake name on my facebook (which I also do)

You've gone from it being 100% illegal money laundering to "it depending" ....

[crazy_rabbit]

I don't know where you live- I'm just giving you an example related to your question. Sure these guys are idiots- but nothing stoping any other state, or government from doing the exact same thing. Heck for all we know, some local sheriff could set up a localbitcoins sting purely with the intention of getting to keep the seized funds to buy a new cruiser after you're convicted as guilty.

Anyway, I was just trying to make the point that the government is hard to predict at the moment concerning bitcoin, but using a fake name is indeed, technically, illegal. (Depending)

But of course, get your own legal advice. None of what I say constitutes it. :-)

You pointed to a completely irrelevant situation where two guys were not only breaking state laws that explicitly prohibited what they were doing but also agreed to sell to undercover agents AFTER they told them they planned to use them illegally.

That isn't that unpredictable of an action from the government in the USA.
And I am 100% confident my government wouldn't do similar.
Fact is, using a fake name on my bitstamp account is no more illegal than me using a fake name on my facebook (which I also do)
You've gone from it being 100% illegal money laundering to "it depending" ....

Well, it's Florida State law, not USA law. So, it is a little unpredictable. :-)

What government jurisdiction are you under?

[5flags]

Bitstamp are exposed to AML and KYC regulations. If you don't understand this, or don't want to be faced with AML/KYC - don't deal with Bitstamp. It's as simple as that. No one has a gun to your head.

It's just naive to give fake names to a company which has to comply with AML/KYC and not expect it to cause problems.

[MrPiggles]

Well, it's Florida State law, not USA law. So, it is a little unpredictable. :-)

What government jurisdiction are you under?

I'm a nomad.

Also I thought the secret service was involved, no? that's federal not state

i think the money service was a state thing then the feds got involved. I would have to check

[bananas]

Bitstamp are exposed to AML and KYC regulations. If you don't understand this, or don't want to be faced with AML/KYC - don't deal with Bitstamp. It's as simple as that. No one has a gun to your head.

It's just naive to give fake names to a company which has to comply with AML/KYC and not expect it to cause problems.

Question is, at what point KYC/AML can and should go? Their procedures are unheard of.

And the most important, KYC/AML applies to money only. BTC is not money. It is just like a pan, an e-book or a banana.

[5flags]

Question is, at what point KYC/AML goes? Their procedures are unheard of.

And the most important, it apllies to money only. BTC is not money. It is just like a pan, an e-book or a banana.

What is Bitstamp? What do you use Bitstamp for?

[bananas]

Question is, at what point KYC/AML goes? Their procedures are unheard of.

And the most important, it apllies to money only. BTC is not money. It is just like a pan, an e-book or a banana.

What is Bitstamp? What do you use Bitstamp for?

Buying and selling. It is like the e-Bay. Even if they are registered as a finacial institution, BTC is  not money. They may apply some procedure regarding money you sent there, only money. BTC is not money.

[eldentyrell]

What is Bitstamp?

Good question.

[5flags]

Buying and selling. It is like the e-Bay. Even if they are registered as a finacial institution, BTX is still not money. They may apply some procedure regarding money you sent there, only money. BTC is not money.

What do you buy BTC with? What do you sell it for?

[bananas]

Buying and selling. It is like the e-Bay. Even if they are registered as a finacial institution, BTX is still not money. They may apply some procedure regarding money you sent there, only money. BTC is not money.

What do you buy BTC with? What do you sell it for?

I personally trade for bananas. But it is not up to the business of any KYC/AML. Money deposit is one thing, BTC deposit is another.

[5flags]

I personally trade for bananas. But it is not up to the business of any KYC/AML.

Right. The famous BTC/Banana pair.

I think you're getting it. You're not buying and selling Bitcoins. You're buying and selling US Dollars. Perhaps it would help you to think of it that way.

[crazy_rabbit]

Question is, at what point KYC/AML goes? Their procedures are unheard of.

And the most important, it apllies to money only. BTC is not money. It is just like a pan, an e-book or a banana.

What is Bitstamp? What do you use Bitstamp for?

Buying and selling. It is like the e-Bay. Even if they are registered as a finacial institution, BTC is  not money. They may apply some procedure regarding money you sent there, only money. BTC is not money.

a) Bistamp is NOTHING like e-bay.

b) Bitcoin is considered most places as some sort of financial instrument or bearer bond or contract or whatever. The point being, most places DO recognise it as a surrogate for money. It's not a banana. And despite my funny "banana coin" comment at the San Jose Conference on the alt-coin panel- the government does indeed regulate bananas once you get to the volume the consider to be relevant to their interests.

So, you know. Citizen beware.

[crazy_rabbit]

I think we are all overlooking the second part of Bitstamp's AML compliance headline: "COUNTER TERRORIST FINANCING ("CTF") POLICY"

It's not just AML/KYC it's also those extremely vague and often abused Terrorist Financing laws.

So basically, throw any common sense you might have out the window.

[BlackBison]

I've filled it previously, sent them my id and bill and registration card. Then entered the bank data with swiftcode etc.

Now the ask for this:

We received your withdrawal request. As your withdrawal request met some of our volume and frequency thresholds, we will have to kindly ask you to help us better understand the nature of your relationship with Bitstamp. In order to do so, we require that an additional KYC (know your customer) procedure is completed before we can proceed with the processing of your transfer.

We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image double page of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire:
1. How did you learn about Bitcoin?
2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp?
3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment.
4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange?
5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future?
6. Which bank are you using? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code.

We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket.

I was asked these questions when I made withdrawals in November/December 2013 from Bitstamp, so this is nothing out of the ordinary. I answered the questions and received my withdrawals as normal.

[MICRO]

I'm baffled by this as Bitstamp aren't widely known to pull these kind of bullshit manoeuvres but there have been complaints about this sort of thing with people who are from places like Slovakia, what country are you from?

Bitstamp is on balkan former Yugoslavia.

Isn't they from Bulgaria ? Well still former Yugoslavia.

Nono sorry btc-e is from Bulgaria. We here don't have any laws about that , in Serbia. So its good place for btc exchange. Also u can bribe anybody to get what u need, sooo....

[Rampion]

I've filled it previously, sent them my id and bill and registration card. Then entered the bank data with swiftcode etc.

Now the ask for this:

We received your withdrawal request. As your withdrawal request met some of our volume and frequency thresholds, we will have to kindly ask you to help us better understand the nature of your relationship with Bitstamp. In order to do so, we require that an additional KYC (know your customer) procedure is completed before we can proceed with the processing of your transfer.

We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image double page of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire:
1. How did you learn about Bitcoin?
2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp?
3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment.
4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange?
5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future?
6. Which bank are you using? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code.

We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket.

I was asked these questions when I made withdrawals in November/December 2013 from Bitstamp, so this is nothing out of the ordinary. I answered the questions and received my withdrawals as normal.

Exactly the same for me.

To those screaming because of this: ANY company managing funds on behalf of third-parties is required to comply with both AML and KYC requirements.

1) AML is pretty straight forward. You need to ask a) ID and b) proof of residence of your customers. That's what all exchanges do to verify their customers and it is standard procedure.

2) KYC is trickier. There's no "official" procedure, but any company managing funds on behalf of third parties is required to "know their customers" - as broad as that definition might seem. If shit hits the fan and LE investigates one of the company's customers, the company needs to have as much info as possible on that customer to avoid to face any legal problems.

Summing up: to comply with current AML regulations an ID and proof of residence should be enough, but any company willing to avoid problems *must* do their own due diligence when they spot something suspicious. Probably none of our transfers/withdrawals were suspicious, but in my personal case I was asking a big fiat withdrawal. With *big* I mean an order of magnitude bigger than what I guess is the average withdrawal requested by a small-time trader. I'm not surprised Bitstamp is asking that kind of questions, and in my opinion they are as general and vague as they could be. In my case I also replied with vague answers ("I bought those Bitcoins a few years ago"; "I don't know when I will use your service again or how many bitcoins I will buy or sell in the future, it depends on the market", etc.). Bitstamp gave me the OK to those questions in 24 hours and processed that withdrawal the day after. It looks like they are doing what they should be doing: asking for as much info as possible to their "bigger volume" customers.

IMO there's absolutely nothing to be worried about and in fact it is good news that Bitstamp is gathering KYC info on their customers.

[GodfatherBond]

I've filled it previously, sent them my id and bill and registration card. Then entered the bank data with swiftcode etc.

Now the ask for this:

We received your withdrawal request. As your withdrawal request met some of our volume and frequency thresholds, we will have to kindly ask you to help us better understand the nature of your relationship with Bitstamp. In order to do so, we require that an additional KYC (know your customer) procedure is completed before we can proceed with the processing of your transfer.

We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image double page of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire:
1. How did you learn about Bitcoin?
2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp?
3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment.
4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange?
5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future?
6. Which bank are you using? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code.

We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket.

I was asked these questions when I made withdrawals in November/December 2013 from Bitstamp, so this is nothing out of the ordinary. I answered the questions and received my withdrawals as normal.

If that's real what they are doing, Im not going to use them.
I can understand only question 4 and 6.
It's not their business if I mine, I can tell it, but no way to give " hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment."

This is getting absolutely grazy. I was about to move my things to Bitstamp including integrate online shops with them. I have already there verified account, but they can now do whatever they want. I will do my business at other places.

[Rampion]

I've filled it previously, sent them my id and bill and registration card. Then entered the bank data with swiftcode etc.

Now the ask for this:

We received your withdrawal request. As your withdrawal request met some of our volume and frequency thresholds, we will have to kindly ask you to help us better understand the nature of your relationship with Bitstamp. In order to do so, we require that an additional KYC (know your customer) procedure is completed before we can proceed with the processing of your transfer.

We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image double page of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire:
1. How did you learn about Bitcoin?
2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp?
3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment.
4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange?
5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future?
6. Which bank are you using? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code.

We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket.

I was asked these questions when I made withdrawals in November/December 2013 from Bitstamp, so this is nothing out of the ordinary. I answered the questions and received my withdrawals as normal.

If that's real what they are doing, Im not going to use them.
I can understand only question 4 and 6.
It's not their business if I mine, I can tell it, but no way to give " hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment."

This is getting absolutely grazy. I was about to move my things to Bitstamp including integrate online shops with them. I have already there verified account, but they can now do whatever they want. I will do my business at other places.

I didn't see the "submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment". When I was asked those questions they didn't ask for that, the question was just "What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins?".

[GodfatherBond]

Ok, then maybe those questions are fine and just standard "bank questions".

[bananas]

I just came from came from my bank(HSBC) , i had to solve some issues there and then went to the exchange department to ask about KYC/AML. Basically no new information.

The exchanger manager chief told me in a a nice chat, if you are sending money overseas from a financial institution you have an account with:

1) Less then 3 thousand dollars per month  there is absolutely no special requirements.

2) Over 3 thousand dollars they require you to declare the nature of the deposit and a document proving it. I.e. You are a company sending money to your employee in another country, you have to show the emplyee contarct.

3) I showed him on my smartphone the Bitstamp procedure, he told that it was legit KYC/AML when you are sending money but that it is very unusual.

4) If you are just receiving money, there is no KYC/AML. It is up to the sender always.

5) The bank cannot froze your account if you fail on KTC/AML procedures. They will just refuse to send money overseas.

6) Bitcoin is not money, and so it out of the scope of any financial institutions/kyc/aml.

7) He has no idea what Bitstamp may legally be,  but still reincforced number 6 regardless of what they are.

The procedures on number 3, are to know the legal origin of money, if theyalready know ( I.e. you made an investment with them ), it just does make not any sense.

[erre]

I've filled it previously, sent them my id and bill and registration card. Then entered the bank data with swiftcode etc.

Now the ask for this:

We received your withdrawal request. As your withdrawal request met some of our volume and frequency thresholds, we will have to kindly ask you to help us better understand the nature of your relationship with Bitstamp. In order to do so, we require that an additional KYC (know your customer) procedure is completed before we can proceed with the processing of your transfer.

We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image double page of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire:
1. How did you learn about Bitcoin?
2. The purpose of trading on Bitstamp?
3. What is the origin of the deposited Bitcoins? If mining, please specify your hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment.
4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange?
5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future?
6. Which bank are you using? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code.

We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket.

I was asked these questions when I made withdrawals in November/December 2013 from Bitstamp, so this is nothing out of the ordinary. I answered the questions and received my withdrawals as normal.

If that's real what they are doing, Im not going to use them.
I can understand only question 4 and 6.
It's not their business if I mine, I can tell it, but no way to give " hardware specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your mining equipment."

This is getting absolutely grazy. I was about to move my things to Bitstamp including integrate online shops with them. I have already there verified account, but they can now do whatever they want. I will do my business at other places.

Are they jocking? I don't either have a passport or an invoice for my mining equipment, and THIS IS NOT THEIR BUSINESS.

I'm out also from stamp now, looking for a serious exchanger

[bananas]

I'm out also from stamp now, looking for a serious exchanger

But is there any serious one with good daily volume?

[stefffe]

Cant withdraw bitcoins and I dont know why and they are not responding to tickets? What to do?


 

[Shawshank]

How long between the additional KYC questionnaire and the withdrawal actually being processed?

It took one day for me.

My experience at Bitstamp tells me the following:
1) Everyday, once a day, from Monday to Friday, Bitstamp collects all fiat withdrawals and processes them. So, it is perfectly possible, for example, that you request a withdrawal on Monday at 11:00, and it is not processed until Tuesday 15:00. Fiat withdrawals don't work on weekends.
2) Several bitcoin withdrawals everyday, including weekends.

[frito]

Cant withdraw bitcoins and I dont know why and they are not responding to tickets? What to do?

 

I got my withdrawal activated(see the edit note of the first post in the thread).

[Saicere]

I'm a verified BitStamp user since June 2013.  USD wire withdrawals in the past without issue.  I tried to do a USD withdrawal this month, and received the KYC questionnaire.  I answered all the questions and provided high-res scans of the documents they requested.  It's been about 2 days so far, no response to the support ticket.

It was about five hours for me back in January. The withdrawal was processed the next day.

[btcxyzzz]

I'm a verified BitStamp user since June 2013.  USD wire withdrawals in the past without issue.  I tried to do a USD withdrawal this month, and received the KYC questionnaire.  I answered all the questions and provided high-res scans of the documents they requested.  It's been about 2 days so far, no response to the support ticket.

took 5 days in my case, few days ago.

for all i know, i withrawed everything from bitstamp and i'm waiting for the developments...

[stefffe]

Cant withdraw bitcoins and I dont know why and they are not responding to tickets? What to do?

 

I got my withdrawal activated(see the edit note of the first post in the thread).

Yes I Saw, but they havent responded to tickets... 4 days passed

[MrPiggles]

i'm going on weeks with no response lol

[bananas]

Don't believe you cannot withdraw BTC due to KYC/AML.

I've been saying here in this thread and around backed by the exchange manager of my bank, that BTC is not money and so it is out of the scope of any financial institutions / kyc / aml. It is free of any financial regulation.

Today even the Federal Bank of the United States said that:

"I think it's important to understand that this is a payment innovation that's taking place entirely outside the banking industry," Yellen told Sen. Joe Manchin, D-WV. "The Federal Reserve simply does not have the authority to supervise or regulate Bitcoin in any way."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/02/27/yellen-bitcoin-senate-testimony/5872039/


Whoever can't withdraw BTC from Bitstamp or any other exchange is being scammed. And is a red flag for the same situation of Gox.

[orlinm]

Bitstamp = Mtgox 2.0 . I think they have financial problems which they don't share with their users. Now they come with excuses to delay withdrawals. Do you really think they didn't lose any money during the 'transaction malleability'. Their platform was vulnerable and every other vulnerable service lost some amount. I think they lost a lot but like gox they are trying to hide it.

[MrPiggles]

They denied my verification request with all real details 

lol no reason given

[bananas]

Dear #######,

we sincerely apologize for the late reply.

The thresholds are set internally for easier monitoring and anti-fraud and anti-money laundering purposes. After you complete your KYC check, your future withdrawal requests should be processed without any additional delays.

Would it be possible to provide any documents (bank transfer confirmation) which would confirm your deposit to Mt. Gox and the purchase of your Bitcoins?

If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact us again.

Looks like they are going full gox...

totally

[smoothie]

I moved all my funds off of bitstamp. Can anyone confirm BTC withdrawals are happening with reasonable amount of delay?

[tvbcof]

Guys if no one understood this - this is how COIN VALIDATION happens.
So now they are verifying coins to make them marked. Unfortunately I did not tumble my coins, I suggest everyone to tumble coins before and after sending them to BitStamp.
...

Peter Vessenes warned against using tumblers at the San Jose conference a year ago due to the possibility that one might end up with coins which could be tainted.  (He was then and is now the top dog in the Bitcoin Foundation.)

Parenthetically, that was at a time when the Mt. Gox/Coinlab deal was falling apart.  (Vessenes was, and afaik still is also the CEO of Coinlab in addition to heading up the Bitcoin Foundation.)  He'd already gotten $5M from Mark but had not bothered to get MSB licences which, accd to Karpeles, was part of the deal.  The interesting thing was that Vessenes made specific mention of the historical customer data that he presumed Mt. Gox to be holding and how useful it could be.

[tvbcof]

It's pathetic that BitStamp became new Gox... and even worse
They do what they couldn't have been EVER asked in any country of the world (because bitcoin falls out of any control in any country), and yet they do it for 'free'.

Gentlemen, we need to boycott Bitstamp as they are playing dirty 'coin validation' games, which not only will devalue Bitcoin, but devalue any other 'blockchained' system.
We need to tumble our coins all and everyone.
If every coin is tainted then NO COIN IS TAINTED.

Go ahead and tumble your BTC, but you better hope like hell that when coin validation comes there will be a grandfathering for it.  Of course if you DO have stolen BTC the calculus is inverted.

I've got documentation that all my BTC came through an exchange.  I wired in fiat and bought at market price and can document both.  I anticipate that this, at least, will be sufficient to obtain grandfathering.  Relatively fewer people are going to have sympathy for those who actively attempted to mix BTC so I'm less confident that this will be grandfathered in.

While I am rabidly against coin validation, {color}-listing, taint, etc, I'm not about to take a bullet for others.  Bitcoin as a system is simply not worth it at this point.  You won't get anywhere near 'every coin is tainted', and it's meaningless anyway for anyone who understands how tainting would likely work.

Coin validation (and general loss of fungibility) will almost certainly kill Bitcoin eventually, but it could take a while.  Those fortunate enough to be sitting on clean coins might have a sharp boost in their net worth as the 'dirty' coins are exposed and devalued.  If just touching a tumbler itself turns out to be sufficient to taint coins to 100%, and it might be since it would simplify the math, that would increase the value of 'clean' coins in circulation even more.

[tvbcof]

Then if there are people like this - bitcoin is dead, because whenever you sell privacy for security you get neither. With coin validation it will be like blockchain split, not what you imagine. The tainted coins will be traded and used in the criminal ways. But the Bitcoin market cap will split, probably in the middle. The price will tumble twice at least and then more and more, as more people will leave both sides (because the difference of using the bitcoin will be corrupted)

I'm projecting that you are more right than you are wrong, and it is why I say that loss of fungibility will 'almost certainly' kill Bitcoin.

I doubt that there will be a blockchain split, but there will certainly be a big market opened up for playing the spread(s) between coins with (potentially various kinds of) taint.

The tainting authorities with real teeth will be the ones which can obtain a government charter since it is they who Overstock, TigerDirect, etc, will be forced to honor.  If these authorities get into gaming the spread markets there could be some real fireworks.

One way or another, a solution which correctly implements anonymity (among other improvements) will prove much more reliable and useful in the end and Bitcoin probably will ultimately wither on the vine.  But it could take years and there could be a lot of money to be made in the interim.  Especially if the VC's keep plowing funds in.

[QueenElizabeth]

I've done some research into the matter and here's what I found:

1. Bitstamp is incorporated in the UK and, based on FCA/HMRC statements made in 2013, Bitcoin businesses in the UK do not require any specific license. They have no legal obligation to request KYC/AML information to their clients, as far as British law goes. They are requesting it because they want to, as confirmed on the Bitstamp site: "Whilst Bitstamp are currently unregulated and do not fall with the scope of the AML/CTF obligations in the UK the senior management have implemented systems and procedures that meet the UK AML legislation."

2. Bitstamp - much like every other exchange - uses a traditional bank, Unicredit in Slovenia, to conduct their operations. Unicredit has a legal obligation to subject Bitstamp to KYC/AML, and they're going to be fined in case Bitstamp does something dodgy (see the 1.9bn fine paid by HSBC for not monitoring their clients as they should have done).

3. This has nothing, repeat nothing, to do with the fact that Bitstamp is a Bitcoin-related company. There's no EU, euro area or Slovenian law governing Bitcoin businesses. The ECB and the EBA issued warnings about Bitcoin, but a warning is not regulation. Probably there will be regulation in the future, but right now there is not. Any requests made by Unicredit to Bitstamp are simply in compliance to obligations a bank has with respect to any customer, Bitcoin or not.

4. Bitstamp - much like every other company - would incur sanctions if they were discovered to be involved in money laundering (duh). Again, that's not because they're a Bitcoin business. If the authorities discover someone is laundering money through a real estate business, they'll go after them (duh #2).

So where does this leave Bitstamp users? Here's some options:

a) Bitstamp's bank is subjecting the company to extended KYC and Bitstamp is in turn asking customers for the necessary data.

b) Bitstamp is anticipating new regulation (e.g. they believe they will be required to apply for a money transmitter license in the UK or similar) and they're trying to gather what they believe to be necessary documentation to be fully compliant with UK law as it applies to money transmitters.

c) Bitstamp suspects some customers are laundering money through their services and they want to kick these people out before the subpoenas start coming, leading to account freezes, and hence damaging image and revenue. They have a right to do so; they're not obliged to provide their service to anyone.

These are the good options which should leave all users pretty much relaxed, provided they're not doing anything awful. Of course the questionnaire is pretty invasive and some Bitcoiners might conclude it's at odds with crypto ethics; in that case they should just move their business elsewhere, much like a vegan would not finance a meat-producing company.

However, there are not-so-good options too.

d) Someone at Bitstamp is building a new service / product based on the wealth of data they have, e.g. anything along the lines of data mining for marketing purposes, and they're gathering as much information as they can so that they can improve the service / product and sell it for a higher price. Not particularly scary, although this would violate the privacy policy in case a third party is involved in the handling of personal information ("Your information, whether public or private, will not be sold, exchanged, or given to any other company for any reason whatsoever, without your consent, other than for the express purpose of delivering the purchased product or service requested by the customer"). It would be borderline legitimate if they're using the service / product internally, as per "We may use your Personal Information for the following purposes:

    To personalize your experience (your information helps us to better respond to your individual needs);
    To improve our website (we continually strive to improve our website offerings based on the information and feedback we receive from you);"

e) Bitstamp is undergoing financial difficulties, maybe connected with the recent downward swing in prices (they overextended themselves? They fractional-reserve'd customer money without telling anyone and now they can't make ends meet anymore?), and they're hiding between KYC/AML to buy time.

Also, I wouldn't underestimate the abilities of British law enforcement. This is neither here nor there - personally, if I were a Bitstamp user I wouldn't be bothered by the police reviewing my data/transactions to see whether I have been giving money to terrorists or mobsters, but I understand that many members of this community would object to this as a matter of principle even if they don't have and never will have anything to do with criminal activity.

[MrPiggles]

Also, I wouldn't underestimate the abilities of British law enforcement.

Are these the same British law enforcement who send out letters to burglary victims without ever visiting the scene of the crime? Who claim there's no CCTV in central London when someone is mugged? Who don't even bother showing up when cars are stolen and just post out a crime number?

Which British law enforcement is there that you're familiar with?

[thecapitalr]

for what its worth i withdrew BTC from stamp 3 days ago or so with no issues

[tvbcof]

When I took a cursory look at Bitstamp, there was no indication of any actual people on the 'about us' page, and they seemed to operate in several jurisdictions and had a cloaked domain.

They also changed their methods to allow unverified user to send in BTC but not to retrieve BTC back out.  They didn't even send an e-mail warning but rather communicated this by a little fine print on their facebook account or some such.

As far as I am concerned KYC is much more critical when it comes to the parties who are holding value for others.  Namely the principles of a financial services business.  I only rarely, and under duress, take on risk of doing business with those who don't comply with this theme.  Whether Bitstamp has mended their ways by now I don't know.  I've no need to do business with them at this point so I've not looked in a while.

And I would be very reluctant to do business with anyone who changed had a history of holding a user's BTC hostage in exchange for high quality identity documents.  If anything smells like a rat it's a this aspect of their operations.

[bananas]

I've done some research into the matter and here's what I found:



a) Bitstamp's bank is subjecting the company to extended KYC and Bitstamp is in turn asking customers for the necessary data.


e) Bitstamp is undergoing financial difficulties, maybe connected with the recent downward swing in prices (they overextended themselves? They fractional-reserve'd customer money without telling anyone and now they can't make ends meet anymore?), and they're hiding between KYC/AML to buy time.

"a" cannot be true when we are talking about BTC, only possibly true when it is fiat.

"e" is completely true.

[bananas]

Also, I wouldn't underestimate the abilities of British law enforcement.

Are these the same British law enforcement who send out letters to burglary victims without ever visiting the scene of the crime? Who claim there's no CCTV in central London when someone is mugged? Who don't even bother showing up when cars are stolen and just post out a crime number?

Which British law enforcement is there that you're familiar with?

It is very rare to see any police officer in London, i thought they had CCTV everywhere?

[MrPiggles]

It is very rare to see any police officer in London, i thought they had CCTV everywhere?

Yeah but when I was mugged on a busy street next to an ATM (with a camera) I was told by the plod that no CCTV was in the area....lol

They don't want to solve crimes that land on their front doorstep let alone go on fishing expeditions through a slovenian exchange!

[tvbcof]

Coin validation (and general loss of fungibility) will almost certainly kill Bitcoin eventually, but it could take a while.  Those fortunate enough to be sitting on clean coins might have a sharp boost in their net worth as the 'dirty' coins are exposed and devalued.

All BTC are equal or the currency is dead and worthless in an instant. That's how I see things.
...

I don't think you are seeing things right.  At this point Bitcoin is a giant ship under full steam provided by well marketed misconceptions and a shit-load of VC money.  Just like any large moving mass it won't change direction easily.  Someone who has BTC and is nimble and observant may be in line for a big pay-day.  (I've recently been taking a cash advance just in case I'm wrong though )

[QueenElizabeth]

I've done some research into the matter and here's what I found:



a) Bitstamp's bank is subjecting the company to extended KYC and Bitstamp is in turn asking customers for the necessary data.


e) Bitstamp is undergoing financial difficulties, maybe connected with the recent downward swing in prices (they overextended themselves? They fractional-reserve'd customer money without telling anyone and now they can't make ends meet anymore?), and they're hiding between KYC/AML to buy time.

"a" cannot be true when we are talking about BTC, only possibly true when it is fiat.

Bitstamp deposits fiat on their Unicredit bank account, not BTC. And Unicredit, like every regulated financial institution, is going to subject their customers to KYC. Every company banking with anyone has to go through it.

[QueenElizabeth]

let alone go on fishing expeditions through a slovenian exchange!

Legally speaking, Bitstamp is British, not Slovenian. They used to be a Slovenian company but that changed. Their staff and their bank are Slovenian, but the company operates under UK law.

[MrPiggles]

let alone go on fishing expeditions through a slovenian exchange!

Legally speaking, Bitstamp is British, not Slovenian. They used to be a Slovenian company but that changed. Their staff and their bank are Slovenian, but the company operates under UK law.

Where are they all based?

[MrPiggles]

I just checked and it says they moved their operations to the UK, but every time I ring I get diverted to an international ring tone, all their staff names are foreign (which doesn't mean much I suspect thats the case with most of London admittedly) and they appear to operate on GMT+1 time, also the only address they give is a forwarding address.

I don't think any bitstamp employees are actually IN the UK, despite what they may claim.

[QueenElizabeth]

I just checked and it says they moved their operations to the UK, but every time I ring I get diverted to an international ring tone, all their staff names are foreign (which doesn't mean much I suspect thats the case with most of London admittedly) and they appear to operate on GMT+1 time, also the only address they give is a forwarding address.

I don't think any bitstamp employees are actually IN the UK, despite what they may claim.

The company is incorporated in Reading, Berkshire. They probably don't have any staff there, but they're still operating under British law. I suppose that they moved the legal registration in the UK for tax purposes and because they anticipated that Bitcoin regulation would be lighter compared to whatever might happen in the Euro area as soon as the authorities decide how to act.

[MrPiggles]

The company is incorporated in Reading, Berkshire. They probably don't have any staff there, but they're still operating under British law. I suppose that they moved the legal registration in the UK for tax purposes and because they anticipated that Bitcoin regulation would be lighter compared to whatever might happen in the Euro area as soon as the authorities decide how to act.

You can buy UK limited company registration for 99p.

It doesn't mean anything.

[QueenElizabeth]

You can buy UK limited company registration for 99p.

It doesn't mean anything.

Yes it does. It means that your company is paying its taxes in the UK (probably lower rates than Slovenia) and whatever euro area regulation there is does not apply to you. In some countries, fictitious relocation for tax purposes can be prosecuted, but I'm not sure about how aggressive the Slovenians are with respect to these cases.

[MrPiggles]

You can buy UK limited company registration for 99p.

It doesn't mean anything.

Yes it does. It means that your company is paying its taxes in the UK (probably lower rates than Slovenia) and whatever euro area regulation there is does not apply to you. In some countries, fictitious relocation for tax purposes can be prosecuted, but I'm not sure about how aggressive the Slovenians are with respect to these cases.

It means they're meant to pay tax in the UK

Accounting Reference Date: 31/07
Last Accounts Made Up To:  (NO ACCOUNTS FILED)
Next Accounts Due: 25/04/2014
Last Return Made Up To: 25/07/2013
Next Return Due: 22/08/2014



I have UK ltd companies that haven't paid tax in 5 years.

[QueenElizabeth]

Well, of course if they don't declare any profits they're not going to pay any taxes - I was just pointing out that Bitstamp might have decided to move their legal residence to the UK because of lower tax rates compared to what they would face if they declared profits in Slovenia.

[MrPiggles]

Well, of course if they don't declare any profits they're not going to pay any taxes - I was just pointing out that Bitstamp might have decided to move their legal residence to the UK because of lower tax rates compared to what they would face if they declared profits in Slovenia.

Thats what I mean though, being uk ltd company doesnt really mean anything.

There are ponzi schemes on here registered with companies house

[Shawshank]

So I bought/sold btc in a fake name, and deposited them to accounts with no name.
In what country is using a fake name to sell bitcoins illegal?

There are ponzi schemes on here registered with companies house

I don't know what your intentions are, but this guy is not using fake names and he is not hiding: https://twitter.com/nejc_kodric

[MrPiggles]

There are ponzi schemes on here registered with companies house

I don't know what your intentions are, but this guy is not using fake names and he is not hiding: https://twitter.com/nejc_kodric

Er maybe you should have read what we were discussing, at no point did I accuse them of hiding/using fake names or anything of the sort. We were talking about UK Plod

[mayax]

it's obvious that Bitstamp has a problem with its platform and it may sink soon.

I don't think the problems are coming from their bank.

[NLNico]

I did a EUR withdrawal on Sunday evening. Monday it was confirmed. Got it today (Wednesday)

No BS questions, all good for me

[floatertheplayer]

I did a EUR withdrawal on Sunday evening. Monday it was confirmed. Got it today (Wednesday)

No BS questions, all good for me

Was it 4 figure, low 5 or more? My low 5 figure withdrawal is "in processing" for days now.

[NLNico]

Yes, I should have said.. it was not that much. I also had other relatively small withdrawals before (months ago) to the same bank account (not sure if that matters.)

[Saicere]

I've been doing a low 4-figure withdrawal (SEPA) every week for about half a year now, the most recent one hitting my bank account today. No hitches, except for that one time they wanted me to answer the "extended" KYC, but that only added one extra day to the withdrawal time.

I can see why people would like to do larger withdrawals to save on fees, but I'd generally recommend splitting them to avoid hitting certain limits ($10,000 being the most important one).

[Shawshank]

Support has answered my ticket after one week with no news from them. They told me they were investigating phishing attempts.

I have now withdrawals activated and I have withdrawn my bitcoins perfectly.

I like the fact that to withdraw bitcoins or fiat you need:
1) For login: username, password and Google authenticator.
2) For withdrawals: Google Authenticator and access to email.

[dadach]

are they serious they want all those questions answered for 150 bucks?

ridiculous....