Bitstamp BLOCKs withdrawals to verified users

[eldentyrell]

(governments) aren't obligated to enforce every law on the book, they are usually content just HAVING the law on the book

This is simply evil and, in my personal opinion, flagrantly immoral.  In my book it completely undermines a government's legitimacy.

The first country to make "the state failed to enforce it uniformly" a valid defense against charges of breaking a law will win at least a few wealthy immigrants happy to pay lots of tax.  Without "failure to enforce" as a defense, the legislature has no incentive to limit the scope of the law.

If the public prosecutor's budget exceeds the public defender's budget, the court is illegitimate.

If private citizens cannot file for criminal indictment (at their own expense), the court is illegitimate.

[crazy_rabbit]

No no, I agree banks can freeze accounts.
But we are talking about a really grey company - Bitstamp.
* They are registered in UK but their bank is in Slovenia.
* They are NOT A BANK.
* No AML or KYC rules for businesses require what they ask for.

No let me explain this, I'm running a EU business and I know what I'm talking about. NO NON BANKING COMPANY ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD IS ALLOWED TO TAKE DEPOSITS. Even god damn Seychelles do not allow this (had an offshore). So either this is going through their books as sale/return of a product (that's what my local law is saying, but they will take VAT because of this) or something else.

Nowhere can you find any data on their registration. Nothing else. They are AS shady as BTC-E.
Now I have no problem with btc-e - there must be a free market like silkroad - and they must remain silent.
I have a problem with people claiming Bitstamp is better than Gox or Btc-e, because they are the same.


I really hope this problem will resolve and I receive my funds. I will update this topic but for now 5 hours passed without any answer from Bitstamp which is concerning.

Yes but are you running a money services business? Or an Exchange business? Even if what they were doing was illegal, (which I highly doubt) you would still need to go to court to settle the issue. In this case, bitstamp needs only say they were being cautious and any judge on earth will probably agree with them that withholding your money was the right thing to do. Remember, if they SUSPECT maybe there is a chance you're committing a crime, their lawyers can advise them to do all sorts of things in order to cover their own asses.


As for how "shady" they are. They list their address. Go visit if it's a problem for you. They aren't hiding. They go to all the conferences, and give interviews, etc... I understand you're upset, but why don't you just answer their questions? If you don't have anything to hide- then you will be fine. If you do have something to hide- they have rightfully suspected you of it. So......

[crazy_rabbit]

What about all the trades on localbitcoins where I don't give a name? is that also money laundering and the police are just waiting to arrest me?

You obviously didn't read the news about the guys in Miami who were arrested for buying/selling Bitcoins on LocalBitcoins.

http://www.coindesk.com/localbitcoins-users-criminal-charges-florida/


Like I said, the laws are on the books- it's up to governments to decide how and when they feel like enforcing them.

That said- there is some sort of lower limit you have to meet before the government considers what you are doing a crime. That said, there is also a law about deliberately staying below the lower limit specifically not to hit that lower limit. So, play nice.

[eldentyrell]

If you don't have anything to hide- then you will be fine. If you do have something to hide- they have rightfully suspected you of it. So......

First they came for the people with nothing to hide.  Then,

[crazy_rabbit]

(governments) aren't obligated to enforce every law on the book, they are usually content just HAVING the law on the book

This is simply evil and, in my personal opinion, flagrantly immoral.  In my book it completely undermines a government's legitimacy.

The first country to make "the state failed to enforce it uniformly" a valid defense against charges of breaking a law will win at least a few wealthy immigrants happy to pay lots of tax.  Without "failure to enforce" as a defense, the legislature has no incentive to limit the scope of the law.

If the public prosecutor's budget exceeds the public defender's budget, the court is illegitimate.

It's probably less immoral then hiring an army of police to enforce both laws against murder and spitting on the sidewalk at the same time. They enforce what they think is worth while enforcing. Things that are genuinely dangerous for society and things that have nice big fat monetary penalties that the legal system gets to keep, tend to be high on the list of enforced laws.

Just how it goes. Immoral or not.

[bananas]

I've sent a freezer, 3 pans, one Iphone 5 and two Magic the Gathering packs to Amazon's Warehouse deals. I decided later i did not want to trade it anymore,  before they could send it back to me they sent me the following questions:

We received your withdrawal request. As your withdrawal request met some of our volume and frequency thresholds, we will have to kindly ask you to help us better understand the nature of your relationship with Amazon Warehouse deals. In order to do so, we require that an additional KYC (know your customer) procedure is completed before we can proceed with the processing of your transfer.

We kindly ask you to send us a high resolution image double page of your international passport and answer the following KYC questionnaire:

1. How did you learn about Warehouse Deals?
2. The purpose of trading on Warehouse deals?
3. What is the origin of the shipped items? If manufacturing, please specify your industrial machinery specifications and submit a receipt or an invoice for your manufacturing equipment.
4. What are your future plans and activities planned on our exchange?
5. Do you plan more withdrawals in the future?
6. Which bank are you using? Please provide the complete address and SWIFT code.

We kindly ask you to submit your answers and documents in a reply to this ticket.

Anna Lars
Amazon Warehouse Deals

[MrPiggles]

What about all the trades on localbitcoins where I don't give a name? is that also money laundering and the police are just waiting to arrest me?

You obviously didn't read the news about the guys in Miami who were arrested for buying/selling Bitcoins on LocalBitcoins.


Like I said, the laws are on the books- it's up to governments to decide how and when they feel like enforcing them.

That said- there is some sort of lower limit you have to meet before the government considers what you are doing a crime. That said, there is also a law about deliberately staying below the lower limit specifically not to hit that lower limit. So, play nice.

I'm not in Florida, so what the hell does Florida have to do with me?

Those idiots made themselves party to a criminal conspiracy by being utterly retarded, entrapment is legal in the land of the free. It isn't here.

[5flags]

facts.

I think you're confused on what facts are.

Anything independent and reliable? Or just your say so?

[frito]

No no, I agree banks can freeze accounts.
But we are talking about a really grey company - Bitstamp.
* They are registered in UK but their bank is in Slovenia.
* They are NOT A BANK.
* No AML or KYC rules for businesses require what they ask for.

No let me explain this, I'm running a EU business and I know what I'm talking about. NO NON BANKING COMPANY ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD IS ALLOWED TO TAKE DEPOSITS. Even god damn Seychelles do not allow this (had an offshore). So either this is going through their books as sale/return of a product (that's what my local law is saying, but they will take VAT because of this) or something else.

Nowhere can you find any data on their registration. Nothing else. They are AS shady as BTC-E.
Now I have no problem with btc-e - there must be a free market like silkroad - and they must remain silent.
I have a problem with people claiming Bitstamp is better than Gox or Btc-e, because they are the same.

I really hope this problem will resolve and I receive my funds. I will update this topic but for now 5 hours passed without any answer from Bitstamp which is concerning.

it takes them usually 24h or more to respond, sometimes up to 2-3 days

[crazy_rabbit]

If you don't have anything to hide- then you will be fine. If you do have something to hide- they have rightfully suspected you of it. So......

First they came for the people with nothing to hide.  Then,

Except of course, Bistamp isn't 'they'. It's not a government or overly powerful monopoly. It's the opposite. Bitstamp is similarly just as scared and nervous about being unfairly singled out by the government as OP is of them.

The way the law is written, entities like Bitstamp (Not only banks, but other organizations dealing with money like this as well) are legally obliged to take precautions that include REPORTING YOU TO THE GOVERNMENT only based on the SUSPICION you might be doing something wrong. They don't have to prove or know anything conclusive about you. So yes, it feels a bit like "thought crime" but thats the law they are forced to adhere to. Charlie Shrem should have taken a hint himself.

[eldentyrell]

They enforce what they think is worth while enforcing.

That is not "rule of law".

[frito]

I'm baffled by this as Bitstamp aren't widely known to pull these kind of bullshit manoeuvres

Um, what rock have you been living under?

Bitstamp is #1 for using AML-KYC to screw people out of their money.

The only difference at gox is that they don't bother with the excuses.

heh
hope not

[eldentyrell]

Except of course, Bistamp isn't 'they'. It's not a government

Oh right, AML-KYC laws just fall out of the sky.  No governments involved.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[frito]

No no, I agree banks can freeze accounts.
But we are talking about a really grey company - Bitstamp.
* They are registered in UK but their bank is in Slovenia.
* They are NOT A BANK.
* No AML or KYC rules for businesses require what they ask for.

No let me explain this, I'm running a EU business and I know what I'm talking about. NO NON BANKING COMPANY ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD IS ALLOWED TO TAKE DEPOSITS. Even god damn Seychelles do not allow this (had an offshore). So either this is going through their books as sale/return of a product (that's what my local law is saying, but they will take VAT because of this) or something else.

Nowhere can you find any data on their registration. Nothing else. They are AS shady as BTC-E.
Now I have no problem with btc-e - there must be a free market like silkroad - and they must remain silent.
I have a problem with people claiming Bitstamp is better than Gox or Btc-e, because they are the same.

I really hope this problem will resolve and I receive my funds. I will update this topic but for now 5 hours passed without any answer from Bitstamp which is concerning.

brokerage firms can take your money in the EU.

[crazy_rabbit]

What about all the trades on localbitcoins where I don't give a name? is that also money laundering and the police are just waiting to arrest me?

You obviously didn't read the news about the guys in Miami who were arrested for buying/selling Bitcoins on LocalBitcoins.


Like I said, the laws are on the books- it's up to governments to decide how and when they feel like enforcing them.

That said- there is some sort of lower limit you have to meet before the government considers what you are doing a crime. That said, there is also a law about deliberately staying below the lower limit specifically not to hit that lower limit. So, play nice.

I'm not in Florida, so what the hell does Florida have to do with me?

Those idiots made themselves party to a criminal conspiracy by being utterly retarded, entrapment is legal in the land of the free. It isn't here.

I don't know where you live- I'm just giving you an example related to your question. Sure these guys are idiots- but nothing stoping any other state, or government from doing the exact same thing. Heck for all we know, some local sheriff could set up a localbitcoins sting purely with the intention of getting to keep the seized funds to buy a new cruiser after you're convicted as guilty.

Anyway, I was just trying to make the point that the government is hard to predict at the moment concerning bitcoin, but using a fake name is indeed, technically, illegal. (Depending)

But of course, get your own legal advice. None of what I say constitutes it. :-)

[crazy_rabbit]

They enforce what they think is worth while enforcing.

That is not "rule of law".

I don't disagree on that point. Indeed I think leaving unenforced laws on the books is dangerous and potentially tyrannical. If I recall correctly, it's only recently that oral sex laws in the south (In the USA) were judged unconstitutional, and it only came up after someone got caught by the police giving a blowjob or something like that and they decided to charge them with it. (Might have my details wrong).

Anyway, I think we agree on this point.

[MrPiggles]

I don't know where you live- I'm just giving you an example related to your question. Sure these guys are idiots- but nothing stoping any other state, or government from doing the exact same thing. Heck for all we know, some local sheriff could set up a localbitcoins sting purely with the intention of getting to keep the seized funds to buy a new cruiser after you're convicted as guilty.

Anyway, I was just trying to make the point that the government is hard to predict at the moment concerning bitcoin, but using a fake name is indeed, technically, illegal. (Depending)

But of course, get your own legal advice. None of what I say constitutes it. :-)

You pointed to a completely irrelevant situation where two guys were not only breaking state laws that explicitly prohibited what they were doing but also agreed to sell to undercover agents AFTER they told them they planned to use them illegally.

That isn't that unpredictable of an action from the government in the USA.

And I am 100% confident my government wouldn't do similar.

Fact is, using a fake name on my bitstamp account is no more illegal than me using a fake name on my facebook (which I also do)

You've gone from it being 100% illegal money laundering to "it depending" ....

[crazy_rabbit]

I don't know where you live- I'm just giving you an example related to your question. Sure these guys are idiots- but nothing stoping any other state, or government from doing the exact same thing. Heck for all we know, some local sheriff could set up a localbitcoins sting purely with the intention of getting to keep the seized funds to buy a new cruiser after you're convicted as guilty.

Anyway, I was just trying to make the point that the government is hard to predict at the moment concerning bitcoin, but using a fake name is indeed, technically, illegal. (Depending)

But of course, get your own legal advice. None of what I say constitutes it. :-)

You pointed to a completely irrelevant situation where two guys were not only breaking state laws that explicitly prohibited what they were doing but also agreed to sell to undercover agents AFTER they told them they planned to use them illegally.

That isn't that unpredictable of an action from the government in the USA.
And I am 100% confident my government wouldn't do similar.
Fact is, using a fake name on my bitstamp account is no more illegal than me using a fake name on my facebook (which I also do)
You've gone from it being 100% illegal money laundering to "it depending" ....

Well, it's Florida State law, not USA law. So, it is a little unpredictable. :-)

What government jurisdiction are you under?

[5flags]

Bitstamp are exposed to AML and KYC regulations. If you don't understand this, or don't want to be faced with AML/KYC - don't deal with Bitstamp. It's as simple as that. No one has a gun to your head.

It's just naive to give fake names to a company which has to comply with AML/KYC and not expect it to cause problems.

[MrPiggles]

Well, it's Florida State law, not USA law. So, it is a little unpredictable. :-)

What government jurisdiction are you under?

I'm a nomad.

Also I thought the secret service was involved, no? that's federal not state

i think the money service was a state thing then the feds got involved. I would have to check