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Author Topic: You want the bear market to stop? Here are some things you can do :)  (Read 772 times)
AXELNetwork
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August 15, 2018, 09:29:42 PM
 #21

That would be a drop by 85% of total value

Total value or ATH value?

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August 15, 2018, 09:37:59 PM
 #22

Initially, the Bitcoin was created as a decentralized payment system. It's just a shame to see that people are now using it as an investment avenue or opportunity. The use of it as an investment, in my opinion, has led to the price instability that we now experience. In addition to your suggestions, it will be nice to see the Bitcoin being used more for the actual purpose for which it was created (payment system). I think when the Bitcoin is being less used as a means to accrue wealth, its price will become more stable and will lead to a better ecosystem and a much more widely adopted coin.
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August 15, 2018, 09:52:29 PM
 #23

That would be a drop by 85% of total value

Total value or ATH value?

ATH value of course, or peak value if you prefer.

Initially, the Bitcoin was created as a decentralized payment system. It's just a shame to see that people are now using it as an investment avenue or opportunity. The use of it as an investment, in my opinion, has led to the price instability that we now experience. In addition to your suggestions, it will be nice to see the Bitcoin being used more for the actual purpose for which it was created (payment system). I think when the Bitcoin is being less used as a means to accrue wealth, its price will become more stable and will lead to a better ecosystem and a much more widely adopted coin.

Not really. The incentive to store and hold is completely normal, especially in the times when the gold standard no longer exists. You can't hold fiat money because it's inflationary, so people are naturally looking for things that appreciate in value or at least manages to hold relatively the same value throughout the years.
There's a reason why Bitcoin is called the digital gold. Have you seen anyone pay with physical gold? Bitcoin combines deflationary precious metals and modern fiat-based payment systems.

 
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August 15, 2018, 10:20:52 PM
 #24

I definitely agree with the information shared by tha author and this article should spread all throughout the crypto community for better awareness to everybody. With these recommendations, I believe this could get good impact on btc in relation to the market value.  All of the recommendation's were favorable to my end and much better than holding btc since it could only idle the cycle of the btc eco system. The only thing that I could share is that people shohld buy more btc during bear market to atleast increase it's demand.

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August 15, 2018, 10:40:46 PM
 #25

The market is now starting to move upward. All we have to do is wait for the fully recovery, for now, let's just hold our token/coin to avoid more damage in the price.
No! That is exactly what I didn't mean Wink Bitcoin must circulate to achieve adoption and strength - otherwise the next crash will follow fastly. What is true is that you shouldn't sell your coins for fiat money. Spend them on goods and services instead. You can also hold them - but this doesn't contribute to sustainable strength.

What I like about it is that it doesn’t talk about knowledge or theory but rather about action. I think bitcointalk should be a community where initiatives like this should take place often and be followed to some extent.

Fully agree! The reason I started this thread is to show some easy actions almost every Bitcoin user could achieve to strenghten the ecosystem.

Quote
OP: have you thought of moving it to the Serious Discussion or Ivory Tower sections where it would last longer and would be seen by more serious members?
I believe that the forum should not be segregated in a small "serious" and a big "spam" section. The goal should be to return the serious discussions in the main sections. In the last weeks I see more "serious discussions" popping up again in the regular sections - I guess it's partly because of the Merit system, but partly also because of the falling rewards of signature campaigns due to the bear market and the end of the ICO bubble. And the activity of the thread is pretty good until now. (The only thing I maybe should have done is to self-moderate it, but until now I don't really see spam contributions.)

Also more merchants need to accept Bitcoin so it becomes a normal payment system.
It's a classical chicken-and-egg problem: If there are no users, then there will be no merchants. Some merchants have abandoned Bitcoin in the last years - because there were too few people using it for payments.

However, we don't have much options available. [...] Unless and until the governments provide a proper legal framework for crypto payments, we won't see the change!
In most countries I know there are absolutely no problems accepting Bitcoin for simple payments (from the big economies, afaik China is the only one that is really restrictive). There is more hassle involved if you want to start a Bitcoin service like an exchange, and here the regulation often isn't clear. And you may be right that big brick-and-mortar chains are still waiting for more precise regulations.

But the bigger problem of merchants is the "hodler mentality". As I already answered to AXELNetwork, a pretty large group of merchants isn't accepting Bitcoin anymore because of the lack of customers using it.


I have to say that falling to 3000 would indicate a serious problem with BTC.[...] That would be a drop by 85% of total value and would require a prolonged bear market (2 years or more) which at current state of BTC is not possible without fundamental flaws or a worldwide ban occuring.
I don't think so. In 2014, Bitcoin hovered around the 300 USD mark for several months, in a very similar fashion than we are hovering now around the 6000-6500$ area. Then, in January 2015, a sudden drop/capitulation drove the BTC to $135. But it wasn't "the dead of Bitcoin", it actually recovered very fast and went again to the 200-300 range where it stayed for several months, laying the groundwork for the next bullish cycle. I can imagine a similar situation this year, with a sudden crash to 3000 in few days or weeks when the 6000 mark is sustainably broken, and then a fast recovery to 4500-5000 followed by a long sideways phase.

@MrConnect, @darkangel11: I believe some hodling is not harmful and only natural, but if all what Bitcoin users do is hodling, then MrConnect's fears are true - that leads to a small liquid supply in upmoves, causing our well-known crazy price manias, but also the panics when the market turns bearish and the liquid supply greatly overtakes demand. Usage as a currency/payment medium, instead, leads to a more stable supply and demand.

The ideal situation would be near 30% hodling and 70% currency usage, but even if we can reach 30% currency usage then Bitcoin has made a big step forward (I believe it's actually near 5%).

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August 15, 2018, 10:56:20 PM
 #26

Will you be able to stop them once they have paper Bitcoin and trade it on the side.  Look at gold and silver.  Once the bankers got you they got you.  Bitcoin should of skyrocketed with the no ETF decision.  They want ETF so we will get it soon.  The market will pump also.   Cheesy

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August 15, 2018, 10:57:09 PM
 #27


Also more merchants need to accept Bitcoin so it becomes a normal payment system.
It's a classical chicken-and-egg problem: If there are no users, then there will be no merchants. Some merchants have abandoned Bitcoin in the last years - because there were too few people using it for payments.

Yes I understand, I just meant this as an addition to your suggestion of how to get the bear market to stop. If you want to see Bitcoin bounce back and you are a merchant of some kind then you should accept Bitcoin as a payment method, even if you aren't getting too many payments that way.

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August 15, 2018, 11:04:26 PM
 #28

That is a very positive way to help bitcoin to move its circulation but I still prefer long term holding wherein I would just be an observer and make some vacation with this bearish condition and be back when its recover.
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August 15, 2018, 11:12:56 PM
 #29

That is a very positive way to help bitcoin to move its circulation but I still prefer long term holding wherein I would just be an observer and make some vacation with this bearish condition and be back when its recover.

If everyone thinks like you do there won't be a recovery from these bearish conditions.

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August 15, 2018, 11:19:53 PM
 #30

very good idea, I agree with you. Good contributions by using and utilizing bitcoin for our every need can make bitcoin recover again.

maybe some countries ban bitcoin, but we can do underground transactions well.

if you want to go back bullish, then make bitcoin a part of our lives.

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August 15, 2018, 11:25:50 PM
 #31

Usage by everyday people would help a lot not just "geekish" part of humanity aka us Cheesy

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August 15, 2018, 11:37:22 PM
 #32

  • Are you a freelancer? Accept Bitcoin for at least some of your work.
All I can do is do this point. The rest I still believe in crypto and hold my coins. And as a trader, I have to keep trading.
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August 15, 2018, 11:43:50 PM
 #33

  • The most important of all: USE Bitcoin. If there are services you regularly use and there is a business offering it for Bitcoin for a reasonable price: Give it a chance!
  • Are you a freelancer? Accept Bitcoin for at least some of your work.
  • Even better: Try to offer a stable, guaranteed Bitcoin price for at least a day. That can bring even more stability into the market.
  • Or accept Lightning for micropayments, at least for a limited volume per day.
  • Are you employed, but your boss is open-minded and a geek? Offer him to pay a part of your salary in Bitcoin. (I would not take my whole salary, it's still too unstable, above all if you have a family.)
  • Do remittances directly with Bitcoin ore with Bitcoin-accepting services.
  • Lightning: Help with beta-testing! Lightning is one of the most interesting technologies if we want to see mass adoption. The more users testing and finally using it, the better!
  • Test and discuss alternative scaling solutions, like sidechains or similar concepts.
  • Become a Bitcoin/blockchain developer. The Core client may be a bit difficult to start with, but there are a lot of services that already are waiting for someone to write and/or improve it. The more devs, the better.
Dude.. All these don't help to stop the bear market. This is just forcing users to adopt more into bitcoin, and these have tiny to almost no effect on the market. In reality, the bear market is in such state only because of a boring first 8 months of this year. There's nothing much really happen, I swear if you talk about ETF, I'll pin you down. ETF is shit and has only the market conditions worse because people are so into it.

Lightning network hasn't got off to a great start, what we need is some really good news, or something that would actually inspire the community.


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August 16, 2018, 12:13:26 AM
 #34

Quote
The more people realize that Bitcoin doesn't "grow" by magic, but by human contributions, the more stability and sustainability we'll achieve. And you don't have to be the new Satoshi to help. Just pay your pizza with BTC, for example. Wink

So you want PROPAGANDA AND FOMO right ?

  • It does not matter how many scams on exchanges and hacks happen
  • No one cares about volatility and ICO scams
  • No one cares about forks and alternative coins that have THE SAME background technology
  • No one cares about early adopters indoctrinating others to use bitcoins while they hoard and then SELL on the peak converting them to DOLLARS or EUROS

All you want is to indoctrinate others so your bitcoins keep going up and the bear market stops. USE THEM YOURSELF, and stop telling others what to do with their "money". And stop hoarding them, the truth is that people are selling because Bitcoin is not working as a currency and it is not working as a store of value, it is hard to use and insecure for the average user.

People are selling mining devices, hardware wallets, etc. Which they sell in traditional money, instead of not just Bitcoin.

BTCubblecoin success depends on propaganda and someone pumping the coin. Do not be the Greater Fool.
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August 16, 2018, 12:24:16 AM
 #35

Accept Bitcoin for at least some of your work.


Thanks for the advice! However, I've been doing it for some time now.
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August 16, 2018, 07:43:52 AM
 #36

Im currently interning at an ICO Consultancy and my boss offered to pay my bonus in either cash or its worth in BTCs. Ah Decisions, decisions. Maybe I'll get half and half.
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August 16, 2018, 08:22:56 AM
 #37

If you honestly want the bear market to end, you should be brave enough to hold your coins and stop dumping it at a loss.
The more coins are dumped at a miserable price, the more bearish the market gets.
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August 16, 2018, 08:13:50 PM
 #38

I don't think so. In 2014, Bitcoin hovered around the 300 USD mark for several months, in a very similar fashion than we are hovering now around the 6000-6500$ area. Then, in January 2015, a sudden drop/capitulation drove the BTC to $135. But it wasn't "the dead of Bitcoin", it actually recovered very fast and went again to the 200-300 range where it stayed for several months, laying the groundwork for the next bullish cycle. I can imagine a similar situation this year, with a sudden crash to 3000 in few days or weeks when the 6000 mark is sustainably broken, and then a fast recovery to 4500-5000 followed by a long sideways phase.

@MrConnect, @darkangel11: I believe some hodling is not harmful and only natural, but if all what Bitcoin users do is hodling, then MrConnect's fears are true - that leads to a small liquid supply in upmoves, causing our well-known crazy price manias, but also the panics when the market turns bearish and the liquid supply greatly overtakes demand. Usage as a currency/payment medium, instead, leads to a more stable supply and demand.

The ideal situation would be near 30% hodling and 70% currency usage, but even if we can reach 30% currency usage then Bitcoin has made a big step forward (I believe it's actually near 5%).

IMO we can't compare the previous crash and its reasons to the current one because back then there were completely different things driving it.
-lower exchange liquidity, lower market cap, less countries involved, basically no laws and regulations, almost no real adoption
And at times like that we had china opening exchanges in 2013 that ended up faking volume and driving the price up hand in hand with bot willy. In 2014 it all went down to hell with the collapse of the biggest exchange and right when the bear market was starting to stabilize came chinese exchange bans that completely nullified the whole 2013 rally. All factors that drove the price down were lying dead in early 2015. Such a crash with the current state of affairs is hard to imagine.

 
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August 16, 2018, 10:45:52 PM
 #39

Dude.. All these don't help to stop the bear market. This is just forcing users to adopt more into bitcoin, and these have tiny to almost no effect on the market.
If there are only a couple of dudes following these advices, then you're totally right. But the goal is - like you said - to increase usage as a currency. This gives Bitcoin more stability and viability.

Without currency usage, Bitcoin is only an asset which fluctuates purely driven by speculation. There is no scarcity because there are thousands of other coins that could be a "digital gold", too. Currency usage, as I explained in my last post, leads to a more stable market due to more buy and sell orders. You can see it that way: Every good or service offered for Bitcoin is actually a buy order. The more buy orders, the less likely is a crash.

Quote
I swear if you talk about ETF, I'll pin you down. ETF is shit and has only the market conditions worse because people are so into it.
Here you are totally right. While the ETF is a sign for adoption as a financial instrument (which is also a legit use case) the hype surrounding it is not really justified.

Quote
Lightning network hasn't got off to a great start, what we need is some really good news, or something that would actually inspire the community.
"News driven speculation" isn't something that gives Bitcoin stability. It's more the other way around. If we only buy when there are "good news", then we're treating Bitcoin like a stock, and not like a currency. And stocks are often very volatile, so this usage leads to deeper crashes.

Im currently interning at an ICO Consultancy and my boss offered to pay my bonus in either cash or its worth in BTCs. Ah Decisions, decisions. Maybe I'll get half and half.
Cool Smiley

So you want PROPAGANDA AND FOMO right ?
Ah, finally some harsh disagreement. Popcorn!

No, FOMO is exactly one of the signs of the current "speculation-driven usage" I would like to see replaced, at least in part, by "currency usage". If the advices ("indoctrination", as you call it) I gave were followed by more people, then we would actually see less FOMO, and less sharp price increases. We would perhaps take years to find a new ATH. But at the same time it's a sane and sustainable growth, and we likely won't see harsh crashes again.

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All you want is to indoctrinate others so your bitcoins keep going up and the bear market stops.

If you call a couple of advices in a forum "indoctrination", then yes, I like to indoctrinate Bitcoin users Wink (And no, I'm not a big Bitcoin holder.)

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USE THEM YOURSELF, and stop telling others what to do with their "money".
I'm actually using them. Smiley

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Bitcoin is not working as a currency and it is not working as a store of value, it is hard to use and insecure for the average user.
Usability could be better, that's true. So here's a new advice I would like to add:

  • If you have an idea how to improve usability, then propose and discuss it! If you're a developer, try at least a proof of concept. Or simply implement it Wink. Bitcoin is an open source project, so you can do literally what you want with the protocol!

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August 16, 2018, 10:50:20 PM
 #40

Will you be able to stop them once they have paper Bitcoin and trade it on the side.  Look at gold and silver.  Once the bankers got you they got you.  Bitcoin should of skyrocketed with the no ETF decision.  They want ETF so we will get it soon.  The market will pump also.   Cheesy

I don't think we will see Bitcoin paper because its too similar to fiat currency, but I agree with you that once ETF approves crypto the market will pump.

 
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