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Author Topic: You want the bear market to stop? Here are some things you can do :)  (Read 772 times)
InboundMercury
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August 18, 2018, 06:35:09 AM
 #61

Really appreciable article and those points that you mentioned is really important and if all of this maintained properly something good can be hoped.
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August 18, 2018, 06:37:30 AM
 #62

these suggestions are very good but i don't think they can stop the bear market from happening now or in the future. simply because a bear market is also a part of the whole market cycles and it needs to happen from time to time as it happens in any other markets.
these suggestions in my opinion would increase the adoption and in the long run increase the price more than it already is happening.

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August 18, 2018, 10:56:16 AM
 #63

I think the best way to stop the bear market is to make the cryptocurrency in the exchange less!
We put the cryptocurrency placed on the exchange into our own wallet, so that the cryptocurrency in circulation is reduced, and we have the opportunity to increase the price of cryptocurrency!
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August 19, 2018, 02:45:06 AM
 #64

these suggestions are very good but i don't think they can stop the bear market from happening now or in the future. simply because a bear market is also a part of the whole market cycles and it needs to happen from time to time as it happens in any other markets.
these suggestions in my opinion would increase the adoption and in the long run increase the price more than it already is happening.
Bear market indeed. Although at full cycle, we already stood almost one year in this phase. No one know when it is gonna bottom, only price action can tell.
You see that 6000 area is strong psychological support.
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August 19, 2018, 02:50:36 AM
 #65

Most of holders doing this thing.
Making deficit by holding coins move price up, i think is good what there are many holder.
But bears understand this policy and dumping price more and more to bust "truehodlers"

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August 19, 2018, 03:02:13 AM
 #66

I admit that those point you have mentioned are really important but it is quiet impossible to recover this market position properly by us, but little change may happen.
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August 19, 2018, 03:10:11 PM
 #67

Bitcoin has become an asset purely driven by speculation.
True. I would even say it hasn't "become" that, but it has been so since at least 2013. But is this really good for Bitcoin ? My intention is to (help to) change that.
It is not good for bitcoin,  but you or me can't change that. The entire community needs to come together for that, and that will never happen. One of the main reasons for bitcoin to become more of an asset, is because of the recession. I mean, who would even bother to give a fuck to use bitcoin as a currency when they can get rich from it? People are taking advantage of the entire decentralized system and it bit us right in the ass.

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And more buy orders doesn't mean people are buying more. It can simply mean that one person is placing multiple buy orders and selling them immediately, or in a short while.
You misunderstood me. What you say is pretty obvious. I was mentioning merchants offering goods and services because they can be thought of like buy orders. The more merchants accepting BTC, the more demand for BTC. Even if they're using BitPay or a similar payment processor (and so they aren't "backing" Bitcoin themselves), BitPay's demand for Bitcoin increases in this case.
Even if Merchants start accepting bitcoin, the demand won't rise much. Hear me out here, not everybody likes to spend their bitcoin on normal stuff that you can buy with cash. A very few people actually like spending their bitcoin and only they will spend their bitcoin. Most of the what you'd call "hodlers" won't spend a damn satoshi.  What we need is to change the community's mindset, if that happens, everything would go accordingly , things will go how satoshi planned to.

ETF ruins bitcoin's purpose. It makes people think bitcoin is an actual asset(it qualifies as an asset, since currencies are also taken as assets in accounting terms but in economical terms it isn't).  You're using a centralized third party to get sheet of paper that says you own this much bitcoin. Do you see the amount of irony?
I mostly agree, but I wouldn't say that ETFs "ruin" Bitcoin's purpose. In reality, an ETF has nothing to do with Bitcoin's "value proposal". But an ETF can also not be prevented. If Wall Street wants to gamble with BTC, there's nothing we can do. However, I would not overestimate the influence an ETF can have. It could increase volatility temporally, but it could also be the other way around.
ETF makes bitcoin a literal asset, and by asset , I mean not in terms of cash but in terms of an investment. ETF for bitcoin is unnecessary. There's nothing we can do, but the SEC can, but those Wall Street bastards definitely have connections inside the SEC. Well, all I can say is, fuck the bitcoin ETF, and fuck the Wall Street bastards. Angry

People are treating bitcoin as a stock, and not as a currency,like I said.
And that's not good, like I said Grin
So let's fucking rage! Grin

And if you still don't realize that bitcoin is only driven by news(along with demand and supply) nowadays, you need to start catching up. Last year's bitcoin gold forks drove people to insane amounts to buy bitcoin and Jamie Dimon's criticism drove people to crash bitcoin, if that isn't news driven speculation, then I don't know what is.
Again. There is a lot of news driven speculation, yes. The purpose of this thread is to change something. If you want to continue with the news-driven, stock-like boom-bust cycles it's up to you but then BTC will bubble and crash again and again. The community should, imo, change its mentality a bit. Less get-rich-quick scheme, more currency usage. Then Bitcoin will eventually grow organically. It's true, we need some technical solutions to achieve mass adoption, but LN is slowly maturing and in 1-2 years it can be stable enough for everyday usage.
A little bit? People need to stop looking at bitcoin like "Get rich scheme", LN is too slow, and not many people are into it, almost 75% of the "community" don't know what it is.


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August 20, 2018, 09:13:42 AM
 #68

I admit that those point you have mentioned are really important but it is quiet impossible to recover this market position properly by us, but little change may happen.

if we want to contribute for market recovery, small thing we can do is not panic with market condition. Panic will make market more worst and price will more drop. The best we can do i think is just keep patient with our investment and hold it

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August 20, 2018, 09:55:51 AM
 #69

very good advice from the author! really if they adhere to then we could push the market up

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August 20, 2018, 10:03:04 AM
 #70

Yes, I agree Bitcoin must be balanced with its use as a currency that is widely used throughout the world, but this has encountered obstacles such as the prohibition of several countries to Bitcoin and not many shops / shopping places that accept Bitcoin as a legal payment instrument. if this problem is solved, I'm sure Bitcoin won't depend on crypto trading as a price benchmark.
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August 20, 2018, 10:57:33 AM
 #71

I'm not afraid of any speculation in this market, even if the BTC will cost $ 3000 then I do not see anything wrong with it in the future everything will be fine. Especially on these speculations we can make good money
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August 20, 2018, 04:10:44 PM
 #72

@pitiflin: I agree with most of what you wrote, only that I'm a bit less pessimistic, it seems.

Only two short remarks:

I mean, who would even bother to give a fuck to use bitcoin as a currency when they can get rich from it?
Maybe because otherwise it could fall again into complete irrelevance, e.g. 100$=1 BTC? Then they would get poor from it Wink

Quote
Even if Merchants start accepting bitcoin, the demand won't rise much. Hear me out here, not everybody likes to spend their bitcoin on normal stuff that you can buy with cash. A very few people actually like spending their bitcoin and only they will spend their bitcoin. Most of the what you'd call "hodlers" won't spend a damn satoshi.
While you're right that a massive adoption would need a mentality change, I guess a massive usability boost (by easy to use LN apps, for example) can be a significant factor for that to happen.

And for the hodlers not wanting to spend their "precious" BTC that could make them rich: Have you seen davis196's proposal for merchants to give a kind of "refund bonus" in bull markets? That could end in a win-win situation (for buyer/BTC user and merchant), see my comment on it.

There are use cases for Bitcoin where it already really excels, but still isn't used massively. The biggest area imo is remittances (I have used it often for that purpose as I've a migration background). I guess spreading the word to use BTC-based services instead of Western Union and friends is a good idea as people can save a large part of the fees.



For the interested: I've found a nice article in German which could have been written by me on exactly that topic:
Warum es gerade jetzt mehr Bitcoin-Nutzer als Bitcoin-Spekulanten braucht.

Resumed: Bitcoin's value uf use is tied to adoption and acceptance, so the best thing you can do to ensure that Bitcoin will be worth something in the future is to use it as a currency, test LN and spread the word among merchants and businesses who could accept Bitcoin.

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August 20, 2018, 04:32:35 PM
 #73

The word trend was once that gave us a very big profit, i agree with you that this will probably be our baseline or worse $3000 . As of today less people tend to buy btc becaue many people already purchased...as time goes by the price will definitely be stable compared today. As btc will be destributed thoroughly ,which means that only few people would sell their btc because they can use it anyway in the market, and only few people would buy cause they already have, this may create balance which will result to the equilibrium cost of btc. I hope it will happen sooner.
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August 20, 2018, 07:41:57 PM
 #74

Through the points you are talking about and convey to other people so that they try to work accordingly but it is hard for the people of those countries who haven't yet legalized Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. However, they are also less likely to affect the market right now, so people who can should definitely try to help mass adoption of cryptos so that we don't have to see such bearish trend again.
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August 20, 2018, 07:48:54 PM
 #75

Of course I can believe that everyone of us is responsible for the things that are going on in this market but also I can tell if you will do those things it doesn't mean that anybody else will do so you will be at this disvantage position.
pitiflin
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August 20, 2018, 11:25:12 PM
 #76

@pitiflin: I agree with most of what you wrote, only that I'm a bit less pessimistic, it seems.
I wholeheartedly agree that I am a pessimist, but there's reason here, explained below:

Maybe because otherwise it could fall again into complete irrelevance, e.g. 100$=1 BTC? Then they would get poor from it Wink
Think about it, if people start using bitcoin as a currency, there would be more supply for it, since it has a high monetary value. But the demand will be very low. We would see the same blackmarketing strategies applied here, this time its only legal. And an economic theory/principle known as chain effect will occur here. Either the price will go down and the demand will go up. Or the price will stay as is, and the supply would fall down, causing hoarding, or as in this case, hodling, and demand will go up. Either way, price will go down, if mass adoption occurs.

While you're right that a massive adoption would need a mentality change, I guess a massive usability boost (by easy to use LN apps, for example) can be a significant factor for that to happen.

And for the hodlers not wanting to spend their "precious" BTC that could make them rich: Have you seen davis196's proposal for merchants to give a kind of "refund bonus" in bull markets? That could end in a win-win situation (for buyer/BTC user and merchant), see my comment on it.

There are use cases for Bitcoin where it already really excels, but still isn't used massively. The biggest area imo is remittances (I have used it often for that purpose as I've a migration background). I guess spreading the word to use BTC-based services instead of Western Union and friends is a good idea as people can save a large part of the fees.
This whole refund  bonus would only work in a short term, couple of years later(more or less the same), people will again go back to point 1 and become hodlers and bitcoin into an investment. Something that could really change the situation is, satoshi coming back. He is the one who would be able to make people realize what bitcoin's actual purpose is.


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August 21, 2018, 03:06:26 AM
 #77

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August 21, 2018, 05:50:41 PM
 #78

Think about it, if people start using bitcoin as a currency, there would be more supply for it, since it has a high monetary value. But the demand will be very low.
If Bitcoin is used more as a currency, then there should be both more supply and more demand for it:
- Users (buyers) are basically "selling" their bitcoin -> supply goes up
- But they can only buy things for BTC if there is a merchant accepting it. A merchant is equivalent to a "buy order". => so every merchant accepting BTC drives up the demand

This means that the relation, at the end, becomes equilibrated. Bitcoin would simply circulate.

Quote
And an economic theory/principle known as chain effect will occur here. Either the price will go down and the demand will go up. Or the price will stay as is, and the supply would fall down, causing hoarding, or as in this case, hodling, and demand will go up. Either way, price will go down, if mass adoption occurs.

The only scenario where I can see supply going up without demand "catching up" by merchants and equilibrating it, is when we have a phase (e.g. a year) when Bitcoin becomes massively used as a currency, and then suddenly there are less merchants accepting it. In this case Bitcoin holders would be forced to HODL or to sell them for fiat, which may drive down the price.

But I consider this scenario to not be very likely, because when customers show a high "intention to buy things with BTC", merchants would view that as an opportunity to sell more goods and services. The only reason for a "massive merchant exit" to happen, would be when stricter regulations in an important market come into effect.

Quote
This whole refund  bonus would only work in a short term, couple of years later(more or less the same), people will again go back to point 1 and become hodlers and bitcoin into an investment.
Sorry, I don't understand your point here. It's true that this refund policy would only work in bull markets, but in bear markets the problem of people hoarding BTC is less pronunciated (in fact, we saw more usage "as a currency" in bear markets, e.g. in 2014-15). In bear markets this "merchant policy" is better suited. Merchants could combine both.

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August 21, 2018, 10:19:36 PM
 #79

This is a very good proposal and the best thing that everyone can do. Bitcoin should be used more as a solution of payment instead of holding it as an investment. An online business can easily accept the bitcoin as payment. Though it depends on the country and its governments choice. I think that, to stop the bear market using bitcoin is the most important thing.
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August 21, 2018, 10:50:37 PM
 #80

The proposal seemed like very interesting.  An online business can easily use the bitcoin as payment. Though it depends on the country and the choice of its government and the regulations. Using bitcoin is the most important thing to stop the bear market.
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