Call for TBF to give a grant to indentify and describe the last goxing mechanism

[Loozik]

Hi TBF,

1. You have been doing a great job of giving grants to promising business ideas, e.g. https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=407 that help achievieng your 3 gols of:
- standardizing Bitcoin,
- protecting Bitcoin,
- promoting Bitcoin.

2. You may have heard Gox is dead. Mark Karpeles claims BTC 750,000 of Gox clients and BTC 100,000 of Gox equity coins are unaccounted for: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/japan-minister-calls-bitcoin-collapse-expected

3. Bitcoin received a lot of promotion because of Gox having gone bust - one of your goals is achieved (promotion). Unfortunately, not the way many of us would like. One of the biggest exchanges going into the red does not help to protect bitcoin. We, the users (ordinary people) do our thing - we keep our computers clean, we use tor, we have computers that will never touch internet again for cold storing. It appears bitcoin exchanges (even your members, like Gox) do not do it.

3. There are numerous theories of what happened and why BTC 850,000 are unaccounted for (there can be a mix of the below):
a) lost private keys
b) theft through malleability bug
c) inside job by Mark himself or his employees
d) giving up the coins due to governmental coersion
e) whatever

4. I want you, the Bitcoin Foundation, to give a grant to scientists (goal: protecting Bitcoin) for the following tasks:
a) identifying reasons for unaccounting BTC 850k at Gox (malleability impact inclusive) and understanding the mechanism of this unaccounting,
b) analysing blockchain and other sources to identify where these coins are at the moment and who has them; BTC 90k may have already been found: http://www.hackingdaily.com/2014/02/mtgox-speculations.html
c) post research conclusions (protecting Bitcoin): what measures should be taken in the future to prevent from goxing / defrauding ordinary people by other exchanges (daily signing messages with exchanges' addresses, monthly financial statements signed by exchanges' CEOs, etc.) - this would help standardizing Bitcoin's environment's key element: exchanges.

5. Come on, how can Bitcoin be protected if exchanges go bankrupt, one after another. Who is next? - a payment processor? - then Bitcoin is dead and no merchant will ever touch it!

6. Please stop giving grants to business undertakings like online wallets and do something that has long-term value.

[1715668539]

1715668539

[1715668539]

1715668539

[TheFootMan]

I have the same opinion:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494140.msg5446061

[Loozik]

I have the same opinion:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494140.msg5446061

I agree with you. Gaving and other guys (with knowledge and resources) should be on the plane to Tokyo curious to find out about what happened. Isn't science about curiosity? All I can get from the smarty guys are hypothesis on their blogs.

[TheFootMan]

I have the same opinion:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494140.msg5446061

I agree with you. Gaving and other guys (with knowledge and resources) should be on the plane to Tokyo curious to find out about what happened. Isn't science about curiosity? All I can get from the smarty guys are hypothesis on their blogs.

Also take into account that Peter Vessenes is on the foundation board, he is the very same dude that sued MtGox for breach of contract for 75million dollars in the coinlab case. It is very likely that he will try block any attempt to help MtGox or at least not actively try to help them.

It's highly likely that he puts his own business interests above the interest of helping normal people, unfortunately.

My impression is that the Foundation mostly looks after big business interests, and does not care so much about the average user.

While there probably is no legal obligation for them to help, from a moral point of view, it would be a very good thing to do, and would bring them a lot of goodwill.

[Loozik]

Also take into account that Peter Vessenes is on the foundation board, he is the very same dude that sued MtGox for breach of contract for 75million dollars in the coinlab case. It is very likely that he will try block any attempt to help MtGox or at least not actively try to help them.

I do not care about big guys' quarrels. I want this thread to only discuss giving (or not) a grant from TBF to scientifically research Gox and goxing (how this happened and where the goxed coins are and who / what addresses have it). There should be some evidence in the blockchain in case coins got stolen, right?

I want science guys (funded with TBF money) to diagnose Gox and draw conclusions for the future (to prevent from goxing).

If any of these science guys can help Gox, in case coins can be made available again, then fine. I have lot of fiat there (I should have written ''had'', because all will be lost due to legal costs).

[zyk]

I have the same opinion:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494140.msg5446061

I agree with you. Gaving and other guys (with knowledge and resources) should be on the plane to Tokyo curious to find out about what happened. Isn't science about curiosity? All I can get from the smarty guys are hypothesis on their blogs.

Also take into account that Peter Vessenes is on the foundation board, he is the very same dude that sued MtGox for breach of contract for 75million dollars in the coinlab case. It is very likely that he will try block any attempt to help MtGox or at least not actively try to help them.

It's highly likely that he puts his own business interests above the interest of helping normal people, unfortunately.

My impression is that the Foundation mostly looks after big business interests, and does not care so much about the average user.

While there probably is no legal obligation for them to help, from a moral point of view, it would be a very good thing to do, and would bring them a lot of goodwill.

You ´ll see that this mighty completly corrupted TBF (The big fail ) if not entirely then  at least a lot of Mark cronies were in on the scam and participated in the cover-

up until now,  as were they selling out at Gox from 980 bucks downward. Nobody will ever get to see the names of those trading accounts and they won´t give a shit

about us  at the bottom of the broken Ponzi !

[Loozik]

Come on guys, we have the dead body of Gox. This body is still warm. This is the best moment to start planning the scientific autopsy.

Noone has resources to fund the autopsy, but TBF. TBF should simply make a call for proposals on how to run such an autopsy and select 1 - 3 best research projects.

Some research can be started very quickly, without the need to fly to Tokyo, through blockchain analysis.

[Armis]

yes the bitcoin foundation who is calling for regulation would be more than happy to find whatever they want to make that happen.

so glad we have TBF for our own protection  



anyone dumb enough to trust mark with btc should not have btc.

And the outside majority community is saying pretty much the same thing about all of us, 'anyone dumb encough to invest in invisible currency with real money should not be trusted with real money


bashing the victim is only normal for bullies

[Armis]

Come on guys, we have the dead body of Gox. This body is still warm. This is the best moment to start planning the scientific autopsy.

Noone has resources to fund the autopsy, but TBF. TBF should simply make a call for proposals on how to run such an autopsy and select 1 - 3 best research projects.

Some research can be started very quickly, without the need to fly to Tokyo, through blockchain analysis.

Sounds like you want a
Crime Scene Investigation, Case #MG744
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=492776.new#new

[Loozik]

Sounds like you want a
Crime Scene Investigation, Case #MG744
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=492776.new#new

I have a lot of questions about what was going on at Gox. And these questions cannot be answered without Gox's autopsy carried out by experts.

I am this guy: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=276773.msg2973084#msg2973084 As you can see I know my trade rather well: I pick tops and bottom with ease - I trained my eyes to see tops and bottoms and my brain to predict them (I am not saying there are no better traders, I am just saying I know my trade well, nothing more).

And I knew from the charts more or less what was cooked for BTCUSD on Gox and was sitting there quietly on fiat. I was waiting for the bottom that did not happen, because someone screwed up! Either Gox screwed up or Gox was goxed by a potential investor who did not flashcrash the market on time or yet something else.

Given no communication from Gox staff, only autopsy can tell us what went wrong.

[repentance]

theymos could just as easily spend money for this.  God knows he has funds at his disposal and he doesn't have to worry about pesky things like by-laws.

[Loozik]

theymos could just as easily spend money for this.  God knows he has funds at his disposal and he doesn't have to worry about pesky things like by-laws.

theymos couldn't have helped - not enough money! It looks like what happened at Gox was agreed between the market maker and Gox / forced by the market maker upon Gox (Gox got goxed). Here is a story told from a trader's perspective (this of course does not tell how on earth Gox cannot account for BTC 850k!):

[virtualprofit]

They have not lost only 850k bitcoins but more of that , they have lost(spend) too fiats money of their customers. They used fiats for buy bitcoins to try hide the lost. I think the total amount is around of 1.1 Millions of bitcoin theft in 2011. Search a post about kevin user speak about the big crash and hack of mtgox in 2011. He explain exactly what is happened.

[Loozik]

Revised picture (dates on which coins should have been withdrawn to make a controlled collapse of Gox)



Edit: should be december 2013, not december 2014

[Loozik]

Follow the money  

There was unusually high activity caught by bitcoin days destroyed, which is discussed here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=463791.0

The days match:

22 December 2013 - coins withdrawn from Gox (insider) after a cheap buy on 18 December 2013
6 February 2014 - coins reach a new exchange; it is not difficult to gues which one to sell on top / cause a fall in price.

End of story. Now we only need to find out if Gox - whale divorce was the only reason for draining Gox of all BTC 850k that are unaccounted for. Someone brainy is needed who can read and analyse the blockchain.

[Armis]

yes the bitcoin foundation who is calling for regulation would be more than happy to find whatever they want to make that happen.

so glad we have TBF for our own protection  



anyone dumb enough to trust mark with btc should not have btc.

And the outside majority community is saying pretty much the same thing about all of us, 'anyone dumb encough to invest in invisible currency with real money should not be trusted with real money


bashing the victim is only normal for bullies

and if i left a lambo on the mexican boarder with the keys in it and running it would not be my fault if it git stolen.

id the call the govt of mexico and demand an investigation.

any one whi gave their btc for mark to hold really did not care too much about their btc to look at the 10,000 threads telling people not to use gox

so the question is, do you own any btc?  is for you too are opperating in an environment which is riddled with uncertainty, major problems, etc, yada, yada, whodo, ... 
but there's a reason you have chooses to invest in the position, it's because you think you know what you are doing and you trust the players that you have chooses to play with.

If you want the 10,000 reasons to not invest in btc ask 1000 people who don't own btc

[Armis]

theymos could just as easily spend money for this.  God knows he has funds at his disposal and he doesn't have to worry about pesky things like by-laws.

theymos couldn't have helped - not enough money! It looks like what happened at Gox was agreed between the market maker and Gox / forced by the market maker upon Gox (Gox got goxed). Here is a story told from a trader's perspective (this of course does not tell how on earth Gox cannot account for BTC 850k!):

We now know that Gox charting data was very likely inaccurate and more than likely very doctored. 
In other words, only unreliable conclusions can made based on Mt Gox generated info.

[exocytosis]

They have not lost only 850k bitcoins but more of that , they have lost(spend) too fiats money of their customers. They used fiats for buy bitcoins to try hide the lost. I think the total amount is around of 1.1 Millions of bitcoin theft in 2011. Search a post about kevin user speak about the big crash and hack of mtgox in 2011. He explain exactly what is happened.

The problem isn't just that Bitcoin Foundation Gold Member Mark (perhaps in collaboration with others in the Foundation) has "lost" (stolen) enormous amounts of BTC and fiat. The problem is also that Gox actually accepted and encouraged fiat- and BTC deposits right until the moment when the site suddenly went dark. Actually, I'm sure they still accept such deposits.

And the Bitcoin Foundation, for some mysterious reason, seems unwilling to research what happened. Or make an official statement, for that matter.

[repentance]

theymos could just as easily spend money for this.  God knows he has funds at his disposal and he doesn't have to worry about pesky things like by-laws.

theymos couldn't have helped - not enough money! It looks like what happened at Gox was agreed between the market maker and Gox / forced by the market maker upon Gox (Gox got goxed). Here is a story told from a trader's perspective (this of course does not tell how on earth Gox cannot account for BTC 850k!):

I was saying that theymos has enough funds at his disposal to pay for someone to investigate the MtGox collapse (something you're asking Bitcon Foundation to do).

As far as TA goes, you might as well cast runes so I doubt you're going to convince anyone to part with funds based on your charts.

[Loozik]

We now know that Gox charting data was very likely inaccurate and more than likely very doctored. 

Gox data have been very accurate; the best among all other exchanges. Bitstamp couldn't even dream of comparing to Gox in terms of data quality.

When you follow the money, you'll know:
- malleability issue is just an excuse
- government intervention is just nutcases telling silly stories
- losing privkeys is an excuse / is fake
- acquiring Gox was just a smokescreen
- recovery plan was just a smokescreen
- businessplan was just a smokescreen

The money went to ... trust me it's not difficult to guess - there is only one option where it could (at least partially) go. it is a known person / organization.

And I am gonna have fun watching people telling stories of how Karpeles could lose privkeys while drinking his frappucino, how US gov could break into his office and steal a paper wallet, how a loss of BTC 850k was discovered out of the blue, and so on  

[Loozik]

I was saying that theymos has enough funds at his disposal to pay for someone to investigate the MtGox collapse (something you're asking Bitcon Foundation to do).

No need to investigate Gox any more (at least for me); I know what happened.

[exocytosis]

I was saying that theymos has enough funds at his disposal to pay for someone to investigate the MtGox collapse (something you're asking Bitcon Foundation to do).

No need to investigate Gox any more (at least for me); I know what happened.

Yes, I think most of us know that Mark Karpeles (and perhaps a couple of other Foundation members) stole the bitcoins and the fiat. And we know that they'll probably get away with it. That's the sad truth.

[zyk]

We now know that Gox charting data was very likely inaccurate and more than likely very doctored. 

Gox data have been very accurate; the best among all other exchanges. Bitstamp couldn't even dream of comparing to Gox in terms of data quality.

When you follow the money, you'll know:
- malleability issue is just an excuse
- government intervention is just nutcases telling silly stories
- losing privkeys is an excuse / is fake
- acquiring Gox was just a smokescreen
- recovery plan was just a smokescreen
- businessplan was just a smokescreen

The money went to ... trust me it's not difficult to guess - there is only one option where it could (at least partially) go. it is a known person / organization.

And I am gonna have fun watching people telling stories of how Karpeles could lose privkeys while drinking his frappucino, how US gov could break into his office and steal a paper wallet, how a loss of BTC 850k was discovered out of the blue, and so on  

Exactly.....!   all else is smoke and mirrors.....even whats going on in the blockchhain.....the trading records , the names of the attached accounts to this selling

are the things they wanna hide ---just get those bank records seized - subito- and the cat needs to wake up !

[Loozik]

I was saying that theymos has enough funds at his disposal to pay for someone to investigate the MtGox collapse (something you're asking Bitcon Foundation to do).

No need to investigate Gox any more (at least for me); I know what happened.

Yes, I think most of us know that Mark Karpeles (and perhaps a couple of other Foundation members) stole the bitcoins and the fiat. And we know that they'll probably get away with it. That's the sad truth.

Then most of you know wrong. Karpeles was only the tool in this operation. The majority of the money went not to Karpeles. Karpeles may have get some money in the end though - it really doesn't matter.

[exocytosis]

I was saying that theymos has enough funds at his disposal to pay for someone to investigate the MtGox collapse (something you're asking Bitcon Foundation to do).

No need to investigate Gox any more (at least for me); I know what happened.

Yes, I think most of us know that Mark Karpeles (and perhaps a couple of other Foundation members) stole the bitcoins and the fiat. And we know that they'll probably get away with it. That's the sad truth.

Then most of you know wrong. Karpeles was only the tool in this operation. The majority of the money went not to Karpeles. Karpeles may have get some money in the end though - it really doesn't matter.

So who did it go to? The Foundation?

[bg002h]

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=407

Grant deadline is today. I'm sure it's at least slightly flexible. If you have a well thought out proposal, read the link above and submit a grant...you'll at the very least be early for consideration in the next round!

From above link:
"Submit your proposal by email to grants@bitcoinfoundation.org. Award decisions will be made within 4-6 weeks of submission deadline. If you have questions, please let us know. We look forward to hearing your ideas!"

[zyk]

I was saying that theymos has enough funds at his disposal to pay for someone to investigate the MtGox collapse (something you're asking Bitcon Foundation to do).

No need to investigate Gox any more (at least for me); I know what happened.

Yes, I think most of us know that Mark Karpeles (and perhaps a couple of other Foundation members) stole the bitcoins and the fiat. And we know that they'll probably get away with it. That's the sad truth.

Then most of you know wrong. Karpeles was only the tool in this operation. The majority of the money went not to Karpeles. Karpeles may have get some money in the end though - it really doesn't matter.

IT does if bitcoin don´t want to lose all gained acceptance in a heartbeat

[Loozik]

Exactly.....!   all else is smoke and mirrors.....even whats going on in the blockchhain.....the trading records , the names of the attached accounts to this selling

are the things they wanna hide ---just get those bank records seized - subito- and the cat needs to wake up !

No need to seize anything to know where the money went. No need to look at trading records, no need to refer to cats. You just discard all the BS that was going for the last month (''leaked'' documents, big boys' rants on blogs, etc., connect potentially unrelated dots, and you'll know.

The whole collapse was either played silly or couldn't have been played other way. I do not know the circumstances to assess if the best scenario was chosen though.

[zyk]

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=407

Grant deadline is today. I'm sure it's at least slightly flexible. If you have a well thought out proposal, read the link above and submit a grant...you'll at the very least be early for consideration in the next round!

From above link:
"Submit your proposal by email to grants@bitcoinfoundation.org. Award decisions will be made within 4-6 weeks of submission deadline. If you have questions, please let us know. We look forward to hearing your ideas!"

The plan of the Gox heist is laid out here......The foundation should grant itself the opportunity to disprove that it is heavily involved in the scam !!!!


By filing a criminal case against Mark if not getting voluntarily those trading records and the bank account records !!!  But quickly !

[zyk]

Exactly.....!   all else is smoke and mirrors.....even whats going on in the blockchhain.....the trading records , the names of the attached accounts to this selling

are the things they wanna hide ---just get those bank records seized - subito- and the cat needs to wake up !

No need to seize anything to know where the money went. No need to look at trading records, no need to refer to cats. You just discard all the BS that was going for the last month (''leaked'' documents, big boys' rants on blogs, etc., connect potentially unrelated dots, and you'll know.

The whole collapse was either played silly or couldn't have been played other way. I do not know the circumstances to assess if the best scenario was chosen though.

You´d know the circumstances with the origanal records and even the persons involved!

[Loozik]

So who did it go to? The Foundation?

please...

https://bitcoinfoundation.org/blog/?p=407

Grant deadline is today. I'm sure it's at least slightly flexible. If you have a well thought out proposal, read the link above and submit a grant...you'll at the very least be early for consideration in the next round!

From above link:
"Submit your proposal by email to grants@bitcoinfoundation.org. Award decisions will be made within 4-6 weeks of submission deadline. If you have questions, please let us know. We look forward to hearing your ideas!"

When I started this thread I really thought Gox was hacked, Karpeles lost his privkeys, something like that. I truly wanted the smart technical guys to find out what happened.

At the end of the day (having done some research), I know this was not a technical issue, this was not a mismanagement issue at Karpeles' side. It's just something else.

That's it.

[zyk]

Exactly.....!   all else is smoke and mirrors.....even whats going on in the blockchhain.....the trading records , the names of the attached accounts to this selling

are the things they wanna hide ---just get those bank records seized - subito- and the cat needs to wake up !

No need to seize anything to know where the money went. No need to look at trading records, no need to refer to cats. You just discard all the BS that was going for the last month (''leaked'' documents, big boys' rants on blogs, etc., connect potentially unrelated dots, and you'll know.

The whole collapse was either played silly or couldn't have been played other way. I do not know the circumstances to assess if the best scenario was chosen though.

The best szenario for whom ?  Bitcoin or the scammers ?

[Loozik]

The plan of the Gox heist is laid out here......The foundation should grant itself the opportunity to disprove that it is heavily involved in the scam !!!!

There is no spoon. There is no foundation.

By filing a criminal case against Mark if not getting voluntarily those trading records and the bank account records !!!  But quickly !

Mark is not important right now. Gox got goxed. Gox is gone. Unfortunately, quite a nice organization (not TBF) may be gone due to one silly mistake.

Some time ago I wanted somebody to PM me. I am a nice guy. I wanted to make friends. I still want to make friends.

I will be checking my inbox once a day.

[zyk]

The plan of the Gox heist is laid out here......The foundation should grant itself the opportunity to disprove that it is heavily involved in the scam !!!!

There is no spoon. There is no foundation.

By filing a criminal case against Mark if not getting voluntarily those trading records and the bank account records !!!  But quickly !

Mark is not important right now. Gox got goxed. Gox is gone. Unfortunately, quite a nice organization (not TBF) may be gone due to one silly mistake.

Some time ago I wanted somebody to PM me. I am a nice guy. I wanted to make friends. I still want to make friends.

I will be checking my inbox once a day.

Are you playing cover-up now as well to get a share of the loot ?

[zyk]

I was saying that theymos has enough funds at his disposal to pay for someone to investigate the MtGox collapse (something you're asking Bitcon Foundation to do).

No need to investigate Gox any more (at least for me); I know what happened.

Yes, I think most of us know that Mark Karpeles (and perhaps a couple of other Foundation members) stole the bitcoins and the fiat. And we know that they'll probably get away with it. That's the sad truth.

Then most of you know wrong. Karpeles was only the tool in this operation. The majority of the money went not to Karpeles. Karpeles may have get some money in the end though - it really doesn't matter.

He was giving the fall guy by everything what was seen when bowing down and laughing his as off at the same time..... he sure as hell is complicit and the terms were

made before the selling began or how do you get those Fiat balances and BTC out of there ?  via unverified accounts and technical glitches?   Whats your proof when you

don´t even need the records ?    blockchain.info  Roger Ver

[Loozik]

Are you playing cover-up now as well to get a share of the loot ?

No, I am the guy who is in business of giving trading calls to money managers (on traditional markets, not on crypto - crypto is just for fun). I rarely trade myself. And there was not a single buy signal on Gox since January till now because ... the whale was gone. There should have been 3 buy signals since January (conditions for correct entries were constantly failing).

I was - well - goxed (''goxed'' is a wrong word now).

Odds of daddy Loozik not being able to pick at least one local bottom for such a long period are one to gazillion - therefore daddy Loozik started to read tapes from exchanges for the whole day and daddy Loozik has a theory of what happened to Gox - this sentence is misleading on purpose.

Daddy Loozik is now happy as he understands what happened and why. Daddy Loozik does not want a share of the loot (somebody made a mistake, mistakes happen). Daddy Loozik only wants somebody to contact him via PM and discuss whether daddy Loozik theory is correct or completely wrong. Nothing more. Daddy Loozik will know if the right person contacts him, so do not play jokes on me.

No more speculations as to what daddy Loozik's motives are. They are quite straightforward: to confirm / deny a theory. I realize my theory can be wrong (therefore I do not throw any names and if I ever have any doubts - I am always wrong - I will never throw any names).

Still no PM...

[r0ach]

I realize my theory can be wrong

another wild theory about Satoshi blowing up the towers

[zyk]

Are you playing cover-up now as well to get a share of the loot ?

No, I am the guy who is in business of giving trading calls to money managers (on traditional markets, not on crypto - crypto is just for fun). I rarely trade myself. And there was not a single buy signal on Gox since January till now because ... the whale was gone. There should have been 3 buy signals since January (conditions for correct entries were constantly failing).

I was - well - goxed (''goxed'' is a wrong word now).

Odds of daddy Loozik not being able to pick at least one local bottom for such a long period are one to gazillion - therefore daddy Loozik started to read tapes from exchanges for the whole day and daddy Loozik has a theory of what happened to Gox - this sentence is misleading on purpose.

Daddy Loozik is now happy as he understands what happened and why. Daddy Loozik does not want a share of the loot (somebody made a mistake, mistakes happen). Daddy Loozik only wants somebody to contact him via PM and discuss whether daddy Loozik theory is correct or completely wrong. Nothing more. Daddy Loozik will know if the right person contacts him, so do not play jokes on me.

No more speculations as to what daddy Loozik's motives are. They are quite straightforward: to confirm / deny a theory. I realize my theory can be wrong (therefore I do not throw any names and if I ever have any doubts - I am always wrong - I will never throw any names).

Still no PM...

You won´t get one if you can´t tell the audience where the proof for your theory is to be found before it gets destroyed....am sure you are on the right track....but now

you are making a silly mistake...o my Daddy my

[soy]

So, what's the safest future for MrGox?  Indictment and immediate remand on LI to protect from possible assassins?  Three months in lockup while it's sorted out would keep him safe.   But he might then need a phalanx of massive bodyguards surrounding him for his next what 60 years?

Keeping him safe from not only irate investors but how about obscure kill-for-hire that might turn up in the bitcoin investigation.  Or other criminal enterprises that turned to bitcoin for its crypto-id only to find they've had a light focused on their business.  Those unhappy customers won't be very forgiving.

If you could buy murder for dollars it's probably been done for bitcoin.

[zyk]

So, what's the safest future for MrGox?  Indictment and immediate remand on LI to protect from possible assassins?  Three months in lockup while it's sorted out would keep him safe.   But he might then need a phalanx of massive bodyguards surrounding him for his next what 60 years?

Keeping him safe from not only irate investors but how about obscure kill-for-hire that might turn up in the bitcoin investigation.  Or other criminal enterprises that turned to bitcoin for its crypto-id only to find they've had a light focused on their business.  Those unhappy customers won't be very forgiving.

If you could buy murder for dollars it's probably been done for bitcoin.

right now nobody is investigating......he is free to excute every possible obfuscation together with his laywers how to tranfer as much assets possible offshore and pay those

ticks from our money --- wouldn´t everybody do it like this, knowing that the big fail encourages him to cover the shit up ??

[Armis]

So, what's the safest future for MrGox?  Indictment and immediate remand on LI to protect from possible assassins?  Three months in lockup while it's sorted out would keep him safe.   But he might then need a phalanx of massive bodyguards surrounding him for his next what 60 years?

Keeping him safe from not only irate investors but how about obscure kill-for-hire that might turn up in the bitcoin investigation.  Or other criminal enterprises that turned to bitcoin for its crypto-id only to find they've had a light focused on their business.  Those unhappy customers won't be very forgiving.

If you could buy murder for dollars it's probably been done for bitcoin.

right now nobody is investigating......he is free to excute every possible obfuscation together with his laywers how to tranfer as much assets possible offshore and pay those

ticks from our money --- wouldn´t everybody do it like this, knowing that the big fail encourages him to cover the shit up ??

are you sleeping under a rock?  there are many investigations of all sorts taking place: from individuals, to groups, to academia, right up to and govt agencies

[Lauda]

yes the bitcoin foundation who is calling for regulation would be more than happy to find whatever they want to make that happen.

so glad we have TBF for our own protection  



anyone dumb enough to trust mark with btc should not have btc.

Your words are pure wisdom.
After the events back in '11, you should have learned. He fooled the customers multiple times, shame on you, customers.

[zyk]

So, what's the safest future for MrGox?  Indictment and immediate remand on LI to protect from possible assassins?  Three months in lockup while it's sorted out would keep him safe.   But he might then need a phalanx of massive bodyguards surrounding him for his next what 60 years?

Keeping him safe from not only irate investors but how about obscure kill-for-hire that might turn up in the bitcoin investigation.  Or other criminal enterprises that turned to bitcoin for its crypto-id only to find they've had a light focused on their business.  Those unhappy customers won't be very forgiving.

If you could buy murder for dollars it's probably been done for bitcoin.

right now nobody is investigating......he is free to excute every possible obfuscation together with his laywers how to tranfer as much assets possible offshore and pay those

ticks from our money --- wouldn´t everybody do it like this, knowing that the big fail encourages him to cover the shit up ??

are you sleeping under a rock?  there are many investigations of all sorts taking place: from individuals, to groups, to academia, right up to and govt agencies

are you dreaming ?  actually he reigns at the top of the mountain of stolen assets and is even protected from all creditors while the cat sleeps on the keyboard......thats


whats happening rather than sitting behind iron bars....and that is cooked together with those guys at TBF. The BIG FAIL

BTC is rigged GTFO of the broken ponzi

[T.Stuart]

Hmmm...

"The World ain't big enough for both of us!" springs to mind...

 

[MPOE-PR]

Sorry OP, the Bitcoin Foundation has no moneyz left. Vessenes spent it all already.

[Loozik]

Sorry OP, the Bitcoin Foundation has no moneyz left. Vessenes spent it all already.

No problem here as I am 99% sure (having spent the night looking at the blockchain on selected days) the ''disappearance'' of Gox coins were neither a result of hack / theft nor loss of privkeys but was rather an element of long planned and controlled collapse of Gox.

No need for TBF guys to spend a satoshi to investigate hack / theft as there was none.

[qxzn]

Sorry OP, the Bitcoin Foundation has no moneyz left. Vessenes spent it all already.

No problem here as I am 99% sure (having spent the night looking at the blockchain on selected days) the ''disappearance'' of Gox coins were neither a result of hack / theft nor loss of privkeys but was rather an element of long planned and controlled collapse of Gox.

No need for TBF guys to spend a satoshi to investigate hack / theft as there was none.

Not to be blunt, but are you suggesting that a certain $75M lawsuit has something to do with Gox's demise?

[Loozik]

Sorry OP, the Bitcoin Foundation has no moneyz left. Vessenes spent it all already.

No problem here as I am 99% sure (having spent the night looking at the blockchain on selected days) the ''disappearance'' of Gox coins were neither a result of hack / theft nor loss of privkeys but was rather an element of long planned and controlled collapse of Gox.

No need for TBF guys to spend a satoshi to investigate hack / theft as there was none.

Not to be blunt, but are you suggesting that a certain $75M lawsuit has something to do with Gox's demise?

I am absolutely not suggesting $75 million were paid with the disappeared coins and that Karpeles prioritized this (real or made up) liability towards Coinlab (arising from real or fake dispute) over liabilities towards cutomers, although such a thought flashed across my mind once (but was long time ago forgotten and never explored).

Coinlab is NOT the nice organization I discussed previously.

[qxzn]

By filing a criminal case against Mark if not getting voluntarily those trading records and the bank account records !!!  But quickly !

Mark is not important right now. Gox got goxed. Gox is gone. Unfortunately, quite a nice organization (not TBF) may be gone due to one silly mistake.

Some time ago I wanted somebody to PM me. I am a nice guy. I wanted to make friends. I still want to make friends.

I will be checking my inbox once a day.

In case anyone else is wondering, I believe I have found the post Loozik is referring to:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.msg2737996#msg2737996

Guys, come on.

Which of you is Miss Whale I played the innocent prank on yesterday?

You DID NOT lose that much money to write such bad things about me.

No need to be too angry with me. I am a nice guy after all  

I already said I wouldn't be posting more calls.

Let's be friends. PM me or something.

[Loozik]

In case anyone else is wondering, I believe I have found the post Loozik is referring to:

That was just an innocent joke. I only wanted to sell (cheaply) some know-how to the market maker because I sensed the market potential could be utilized even more.

But if my hypothesis is correct (controlled collapse, not theft or lost privkeys), then the person(s) who was doing that stuff that day drained Gox of coins with the knowledge of Karpeles.

[Loozik]

I believe these addresses still have ''disappeared'' Gox coins (please monitor) - BTC 10k each:
https://blockchain.info/address/1LfV1tSt3KNyHpFJnAzrqsLFdeD2EvU1MK
https://blockchain.info/address/18LpE3eaXgzUc7XGTNKCgZkD4EZN4NcAbK
https://blockchain.info/address/1Gg9GGQWmRk1pp4vNkMqLaEiPVNdiNvz7E

[Loozik]

Can someone please establish somehow if the below addresses belong to Coinbase (probably hot wallets) - I am not implying anything - just being inquisitive (this for sure is case-unrelated):
https://blockchain.info/address/1Ne5bGjDdgmbsGdNK9ocwrQiWf8K1FTuSa
https://blockchain.info/address/14bmqrmfyWDz9HnWPSicqMyjikdMRSfgN1
https://blockchain.info/address/19ceqGwbi19mxAftUnNBYMx3CfsMFZMxE5
https://blockchain.info/address/1CMxsMXJGd9S67FehuWeWE25getymyUNBt
https://blockchain.info/address/1GVb2b8wiWenjK73Nrxk2E9MzBQAXaqDvr
https://blockchain.info/address/15WtLXz24WitRWtfdEzWPWZJYYDEBjjhUf

[zyk]

In case anyone else is wondering, I believe I have found the post Loozik is referring to:

That was just an innocent joke. I only wanted to sell (cheaply) some know-how to the market maker because I sensed the market potential could be utilized even more.

But if my hypothesis is correct (controlled collapse, not theft or lost privkeys), then the person(s) who was doing that stuff that day drained Gox of coins with the knowledge of Karpeles.

of course - as nobody could hide the traces without complicity of Karpeles.......and they are still free to hide everything as it pleases....take the guy in custody before every

proof will be erased

[Loozik]

of course - as nobody could hide the traces without complicity of Karpeles.......and they are still free to hide everything as it pleases....take the guy in custody before every proof will be erased

The bancruptcy with rehabilitation to which the Japanese court agreed is the best solution for Karpeles and his buddies, but the worst solution for clients and for finding out the truth.

[zyk]

of course - as nobody could hide the traces without complicity of Karpeles.......and they are still free to hide everything as it pleases....take the guy in custody before every proof will be erased

The bancruptcy with rehabilitation to which the Japanese court agreed is the best solution for Karpeles and his buddies, but the worst solution for clients and for finding out the truth.

So all is lost ? may I trash my coin?

[Loozik]

So all is lost ? may I trash my coin?

It is very simple: there are 3 types of stories you can choose from:
1. the distraction story that was told by magicians (Kolin Burges + twobit idiot + irc chats + others): then depending on your preference you believe that Mark is either a ruthless swindler-criminal or an incompetent manager-dreamer
2. the MtGox story that portrays the exchange as a prey to a hacker who stole 6% of all bitcoins in maximum of 6 days without leaving any spikes in Bitcoin network activity
3. daddy Loozik's story that at least 50% of Gox's assets were gone before the alledged theft happened and that Gox's bankruptcy had been planned ahead (with distraction stories being its element)

How can I know if all is lost  

[Definit]

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=495713.new#new

[Gotgoxed]

I'm wondering how much Gox had to pay to get this statement from our Bitcoin Jesus?

http://youtu.be/UP1YsMlrfF0

Roger Ver admitting his favor to mt.gox I guess Mark didn't lock his account in return:

http://youtu.be/GRIJ_jpmwzo

[zyk]

So all is lost ? may I trash my coin?

It is very simple: there are 3 types of stories you can choose from:
1. the distraction story that was told by magicians (Kolin Burges + twobit idiot + irc chats + others): then depending on your preference you believe that Mark is either a ruthless swindler-criminal or an incompetent manager-dreamer
2. the MtGox story that portrays the exchange as a prey to a hacker who stole 6% of all bitcoins in maximum of 6 days without leaving any spikes in Bitcoin network activity
3. daddy Loozik's story that at least 50% of Gox's assets were gone before the alledged theft happened and that Gox's bankruptcy had been planned ahead (with distraction stories being its element)

How can I know if all is lost  

of course by your own deductions...its the only consequense left.-.-......you know it by the selling at Gox !