How many of you have been Zhoutonged?

[cypherdoc]

How many?

[zhoutong]

How many?

A lot, seriously.

[cypherdoc]

How many?

A lot, seriously.

LOL!  Way to go Zhoutong.  I'm rooting for you.

[epetroel]

Count me in

[tvbcof]

If getting 'zhoutonged' means getting reamed using Bitcoinica, what would be a good word for doubling one's money on the same platform?

zhoubling your money?

<chuckles>

Your suggestion scales best.  Needed because I've now zhoudrupled my money.

I'll re-iterate that a monkey could do OK on Bitcoinica if they guess right.  I'll take a breather to see if things retract a bit, then try yet again to loose it all.

[phorensic]

I'm up like 20% for the day.  No zhoutongin' fo' me.

[DonnyCMU]

Let me get this correct... So when the price spiked up and people were trading on Mt.Gox at $4.5,  Zhoutong's genius matching algorithm put the buy price at a $1 spread and force liquidate people's position at $4.9 ?? 

So when all these forced buy bitcoins are actually bought in Mt.Gox market at any price around $4.1-4.5, the all difference goes into Bitcoinica's pocket?

I've been Zhoutonged good!!!

[Cluster2k]

So when all these forced buy bitcoins are actually bought in Mt.Gox market at any price around $4.1-4.5, the all difference goes into Bitcoinica's pocket?

The casino always wins.  It's an unregulated market in the financial equivalent of the Wild West.

[Mushoz]

With those fast movements and shallow order book they _have_ to have big spreads, or Bitcoinica risks losing a lot of money on spikes. They would effectively be Zhoutonging themselves! I agree that those big spreads suck as a trader, though  

[FreeMoney]

With those fast movements and shallow order book they _have_ to have big spreads, or Bitcoinica risks losing a lot of money on spikes. They would effectively be Zhoutonging themselves! I agree that those big spreads suck as a trader, though  

Why not liquidate at Gox and give the customer whatever price they actually got?

[Mushoz]

With those fast movements and shallow order book they _have_ to have big spreads, or Bitcoinica risks losing a lot of money on spikes. They would effectively be Zhoutonging themselves! I agree that those big spreads suck as a trader, though  

Why not liquidate at Gox and give the customer whatever price they actually got?

Because although it will work most of the time, sometimes when the prices moves too fast, they aren't able to liquidate on time, which would effectively cause the account of that person who was liquidated to have a negative balance. And they can't be sure that person is honest enough to deposit more funds to make the balance go to zero or positive again. And if they don't deposit more, Bitcoinica would have lost money themselves.

Edit: Also, when a large position is liquidated, that in itself will push the price up or drive the price down. If that effect is big enough due to a shallow order book, that can also cause the liquidation not to be executed for the right price, which will leave a negative balance.

By calculating spreads, they are effectively calculating the risk and protecting themselves against it. This allows them to guarantee liquidity.

[notme]

I have a lot of cash in my account. Is the only way I can get it out is by a wire or can I just use it to buy bitcoin?

If I have to use a wire... WTF....  If not, tell me how to do it:)

Thanks

Click "exchange" in top bar.  Put in amount of USD to "sell" for BTC, click "Exchange".  Poof, you have bitcoins.

[Mushoz]

I have a lot of cash in my account. Is the only way I can get it out is by a wire or can I just use it to buy bitcoin?

If I have to use a wire... WTF....  If not, tell me how to do it:)

Thanks

Or withdraw to your Mtgox account via Mtgox codes, and withdraw your funds via Mtgox.

[epetroel]

Because although it will work most of the time, sometimes when the prices moves too fast, they aren't able to liquidate on time, which would effectively cause the account of that person who was liquidated to have a negative balance. And they can't be sure that person is honest enough to deposit more funds to make the balance go to zero or positive again. And if they don't deposit more, Bitcoinica would have lost money themselves.

And it seems that doesn't always work either.  After my position was liquidated, I still had a -$69 balance.  I deposited some money to cover it, but I can't imagine that everyone would do that.

[Mushoz]

Because although it will work most of the time, sometimes when the prices moves too fast, they aren't able to liquidate on time, which would effectively cause the account of that person who was liquidated to have a negative balance. And they can't be sure that person is honest enough to deposit more funds to make the balance go to zero or positive again. And if they don't deposit more, Bitcoinica would have lost money themselves.

And it seems that doesn't always work either.  After my position was liquidated, I still had a -$69 balance.  I deposited some money to cover it, but I can't imagine that everyone would do that.

Yeah, spreads only reduce the risk. They don't completely eliminate the risks. That's why they must find a good balance between dampening their risk and providing smaller spreads to stay competitive. That's exactly why the spread is increased in situations when there's more risks (High volatility and/or shallow order book) because they need to protect themselves against those risks, and later reduced again once the dust settles down.

[cypherdoc]

Because although it will work most of the time, sometimes when the prices moves too fast, they aren't able to liquidate on time, which would effectively cause the account of that person who was liquidated to have a negative balance. And they can't be sure that person is honest enough to deposit more funds to make the balance go to zero or positive again. And if they don't deposit more, Bitcoinica would have lost money themselves.

And it seems that doesn't always work either.  After my position was liquidated, I still had a -$69 balance.  I deposited some money to cover it, but I can't imagine that everyone would do that.

Yeah, spreads only reduce the risk. They don't completely eliminate the risks. That's why they must find a good balance between dampening their risk and providing smaller spreads to stay competitive. That's exactly why the spread is increased in situations when there's more risks (High volatility and/or shallow order book) because they need to protect themselves against those risks, and later reduced again once the dust settles down.

the Voice of Reason.

[zhoutong]

Let me get this correct... So when the price spiked up and people were trading on Mt.Gox at $4.5,  Zhoutong's genius matching algorithm put the buy price at a $1 spread and force liquidate people's position at $4.9 ?? 

So when all these forced buy bitcoins are actually bought in Mt.Gox market at any price around $4.1-4.5, the all difference goes into Bitcoinica's pocket?

I've been Zhoutonged good!!!

Can you send an email to support@bitcoinica.com about this? We'd like to compensate you on this.

While it's true that our algorithm sets the price by balancing and predicting the benefit and the risk, after all the trading, there's no point of predicting, and we can clearly see that the prediction was wrong. So we are perfectly okay to refund you the "unexpected profit" we made from you.

I hope this explanation makes sense.

[cypherdoc]

Let me get this correct... So when the price spiked up and people were trading on Mt.Gox at $4.5,  Zhoutong's genius matching algorithm put the buy price at a $1 spread and force liquidate people's position at $4.9 ?? 

So when all these forced buy bitcoins are actually bought in Mt.Gox market at any price around $4.1-4.5, the all difference goes into Bitcoinica's pocket?

I've been Zhoutonged good!!!

Can you send an email to support@bitcoinica.com about this? We'd like to compensate you on this.

While it's true that our algorithm sets the price by balancing and predicting the benefit and the risk, after all the trading, there's no point of predicting, and we can clearly see that the prediction was wrong. So we are perfectly okay to refund you the "unexpected profit" we made from you.

I hope this explanation makes sense.

come one come all, Zhoutong proposes to refund you all?

[zhoutong]

Let me get this correct... So when the price spiked up and people were trading on Mt.Gox at $4.5,  Zhoutong's genius matching algorithm put the buy price at a $1 spread and force liquidate people's position at $4.9 ?? 

So when all these forced buy bitcoins are actually bought in Mt.Gox market at any price around $4.1-4.5, the all difference goes into Bitcoinica's pocket?

I've been Zhoutonged good!!!

Can you send an email to support@bitcoinica.com about this? We'd like to compensate you on this.

While it's true that our algorithm sets the price by balancing and predicting the benefit and the risk, after all the trading, there's no point of predicting, and we can clearly see that the prediction was wrong. So we are perfectly okay to refund you the "unexpected profit" we made from you.

I hope this explanation makes sense.

come one come all, Zhoutong proposes to refund you all?

Actually I did reverse/refund those obviously inaccurate forced liquidations. But it just happens that some were missing (excuse me hundreds of orders come at once).

[cypherdoc]

Let me get this correct... So when the price spiked up and people were trading on Mt.Gox at $4.5,  Zhoutong's genius matching algorithm put the buy price at a $1 spread and force liquidate people's position at $4.9 ?? 

So when all these forced buy bitcoins are actually bought in Mt.Gox market at any price around $4.1-4.5, the all difference goes into Bitcoinica's pocket?

I've been Zhoutonged good!!!

Can you send an email to support@bitcoinica.com about this? We'd like to compensate you on this.

While it's true that our algorithm sets the price by balancing and predicting the benefit and the risk, after all the trading, there's no point of predicting, and we can clearly see that the prediction was wrong. So we are perfectly okay to refund you the "unexpected profit" we made from you.

I hope this explanation makes sense.

to be honest, i don't see any explanation as to why or how you determined "unexpected profits".