The cancer that is Ponzi

[NLNico]

Looks like the "legit" ponzi that had an advertisement running here stole all the money.

What a surprise. Ponzi turns out to be a Ponzi scheme.

Seriously, can we have a subforum already? Just call it "Ponzi, HYIP and other scams for greedy idiots"


And no apsvinet, never gave a single satoshi to any ponzi scheme. But I do like to follow Gambling threads and it's a bit annoying with all these ponzi shit. (and no I don't really gamble even, mostly poker which is EV+ for me :>)

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[TheEmperor]

If there are many people who like traditional gambling games and not Ponzis, then a category should probably be created, but I'm not sure where the line would be drawn between Ponzis and other games. Maybe traditional games must be based 100% on chance? But that'd eliminate many other games as well.

I'm thinking anything with ponzi in the name is a good place to start.

[Vortuarackne]

I'm the owner of PonziCoin - the server was subjected to an attempted injection attack last night whereby someone was able to send HTTP requests to a number of my backend scripts which control payouts, new rounds etc etc. As I have Fail2Ban configured to scan for such suspicious activity (pretty much any HTTP request sending arguments), the server essentially shuts down any none core operations (e.g. cron is stopped as too are any ad-hoc processes) to protect its assets, in this case the BitCoin wallets.

As soon as I was made aware of the problems I responded by instantly making a full refund to the players and posting here.

Sure it would have been an easy 10+BTC but I have been fighting tooth and nail over the past few weeks defending sites such as my own, as not all ponzi-type games are scams, and that is something I strongly believe in.

I can only apologise to the players affected, some of which appear to have shit a brick in the process!

[NLNico]

Well it's good to hear that you refunded them. Sorry for your loss and for saying "stole all the money" ... it kinda looked like that.

Still I think a sub forum for Ponzi/HYIP is appropriate as I explained in my previous post on the previous page.

Also > "every" bitcoin site should have bug bounty program, see my signature

[roslinpl]

Well there are so many ponzis right now that it cannot be stopped because people play it.


You should not be angry about them anymore.

Just walk away from ponzi and forget it

[NLNico]

I'm not sure if you are talking to me. But I do not really care about people who play ponzis and I never had or will play them. I don't really think that "they need to be stopped".

It's just that ponzi-players and "traditional gamblers" seem 2 different target groups to me. And -because- there are so many ponzi topics they "deserve" to have an own subforum.

[boumalo]

Ponzi is gambling but it is a gambling game with skills

It can be quite deceptive and some players probably don't understand how it works especially when it is not advertised as a ponzi but when the owner is not sc.amming and when it is advertise as a ponzi with disclaimers it is a gambling game with skills

The biggest problem with ponzis on bitcointalk is that some owners ran away with the money, creating a ponzi sub section in the gambling forum and only allowing members, full m, senior m and hero m to create a new post in this section would eliminate a lot of sc.ams

[zolace]

Ponzi is gambling but it is a gambling game with skills

It can be quite deceptive and some players probably don't understand how it works especially when it is not advertised as a ponzi but when the owner is not sc.amming and when it is advertise as a ponzi with disclaimers it is a gambling game with skills

The biggest problem with ponzis on bitcointalk is that some owners ran away with the money, creating a ponzi sub section in the gambling forum and only allowing members, full m, senior m and hero m to create a new post in this section would eliminate a lot of sc.ams

ponzi is not a real gambling game or it wouldnt need a license to run it.  Ponzi is mostly illegal.  Who ever wants to fight ponzis off this site PM Me.  I found a way to make the Admin listen.

[Vortuarackne]

Ponzi is gambling but it is a gambling game with skills

It can be quite deceptive and some players probably don't understand how it works especially when it is not advertised as a ponzi but when the owner is not sc.amming and when it is advertise as a ponzi with disclaimers it is a gambling game with skills

The biggest problem with ponzis on bitcointalk is that some owners ran away with the money, creating a ponzi sub section in the gambling forum and only allowing members, full m, senior m and hero m to create a new post in this section would eliminate a lot of sc.ams

ponzi is not a real gambling game or it wouldnt need a license to run it.  Ponzi is mostly illegal.  Who ever wants to fight ponzis off this site PM Me.  I found a way to make the Admin listen.

Gambling games based on the ponzi-model. There's a difference.

[Light]

Gambling games based on the ponzi-model. There's a difference.

No there isn't. Your simply trying to make a distinction so you that can stay in the gambling section and keep your mass of idiot newbie users to help line your pockets. Just because you declare something, doesn't make it any more legal or ethical. It's like you declare your doing tax evasion. It doesn't make a difference, it's still illegal.

[Vortuarackne]

Gambling games based on the ponzi-model. There's a difference.

No there isn't. Your simply trying to make a distinction so you that can stay in the gambling section and keep your mass of idiot newbie users to help line your pockets. Just because you declare something, doesn't make it any more legal or ethical. It's like you declare your doing tax evasion. It doesn't make a difference, it's still illegal.

I suggest you first define a ponzi and then define what the majority or sites are offering - do true ponzis label themselves as Ponzis? No. Do true ponzis warn investors they may not get their money back? No Do true ponzis have "rounds" which occur when funds dry up? No.

There is a clear difference.

[Light]

I suggest you first define a ponzi and then define what the majority or sites are offering - do true ponzis label themselves as Ponzis? No. Do true ponzis warn investors they may not get their money back? No Do true ponzis have "rounds" which occur when funds dry up? No.

There is a clear difference.

Defined by Merriam Webster.

Ponzi
- an investment swindle in which some early investors are paid off with money put up by later ones in order to encourage more and bigger risks

Your site and many others fit this bill to the tee. Case closed.

[Vortuarackne]

I suggest you first define a ponzi and then define what the majority or sites are offering - do true ponzis label themselves as Ponzis? No. Do true ponzis warn investors they may not get their money back? No Do true ponzis have "rounds" which occur when funds dry up? No.

There is a clear difference.

Defined by Merriam Webster.

Ponzi
- an investment swindle in which some early investors are paid off with money put up by later ones in order to encourage more and bigger risks

Your site and many others fit this bill to the tee. Case closed.

Not quite.

1) These are not investment opportunities - at no point are they sold as an investment, at no point are returns guaranteed
2) There is no encouragement for players to arrive late in rounds - the majority are smart enough to wait until the next round in hope of achieving their desired return.

[zolace]

Not other then that how about a few of the newbies that came on here almost the same time you showed up, how we know your not the same early investor?  Ponzi is a dangerous and illegal investment activity.   I think is best we all keep reporting there wesbites to the hosts, lets see how much can they afford to keep opening these games.

[Vortuarackne]

Not other then that how about a few of the newbies that came on here almost the same time you showed up, how we know your not the same early investor?  Ponzi is a dangerous and illegal investment activity.   I think is best we all keep reporting there wesbites to the hosts, lets see how much can they afford to keep opening these games.

You can think what you want of me, I dont particularly care. I am here defending the type of site which I operate. I assume the mods\admin could GeoIP track to determine any users creating multiple accounts (using well known proxies etc). I suspect at least 1 well known ponzi-game was doing this until it all went quite a couple of days ago.

Personally, I have already spoke to my host - they are not blinded by the same tunnel vision as yourself - so feel free to bombard them with your spam.

[Light]

Not quite.

1) These are not investment opportunities - at no point are they sold as an investment, at no point are returns guaranteed
2) There is no encouragement for players to arrive late in rounds - the majority are smart enough to wait until the next round in hope of achieving their desired return.

1. Please understand what an investment is before you try and argue a moot point.

Investment (Merriam-Webster)
- the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.

It is irrelevant whether there is a "guarantee" on returns. Try rebadging shares as something else because there is no "guarantee" and you'll get laughed all the way to an asylum.

2. Understand semantics before you argue. "early investors are paid off with money put up by later ones in order to encourage". People are encouraged by the fact that some idiot earlier in the queue is getting paid off with a later guys funds and hence wish to join in too.

[BitOnyx]

Every gambling related event is ponzi that people are aware in some way. It is like lottery. You buy tickets, one person wins all other people money.

[Vortuarackne]

Not quite.

1) These are not investment opportunities - at no point are they sold as an investment, at no point are returns guaranteed
2) There is no encouragement for players to arrive late in rounds - the majority are smart enough to wait until the next round in hope of achieving their desired return.

1. Please understand what an investment is before you try and argue a moot point.

Investment (Merriam-Webster)
- the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns, as interest, income, or appreciation in value.

It is irrelevant whether there is a "guarantee" on returns. Try rebadging shares as something else because there is no "guarantee" and you'll get laughed all the way to an asylum.

2. Understand semantics before you argue. "early investors are paid off with money put up by later ones in order to encourage". People are encouraged by the fact that some idiot earlier in the queue is getting paid off with a later guys funds and hence wish to join in too.

Thats for the players to decide though. Someone wins $100,000 on a scratch card so 10 other people go out and buy more scratch cards and don’t win anything. By your definition that is "encouragement". Is it also an investment; the investing of money or capital in order to gain profitable returns?

That must be a scam, ponzi, illegal, immoral too!

I appreciate not everyone likes ponzis, and the majority will never play one. However, using your own definitions, what most sites (certainly my own) is offering, is nothing worse than any other gambling, lottery, bingo site etc.

The risk of losing your coins is the calculated gamble players take.

[hilariousandco]

I suggest you first define a ponzi and then define what the majority or sites are offering - do true ponzis label themselves as Ponzis? No. Do true ponzis warn investors they may not get their money back? No Do true ponzis have "rounds" which occur when funds dry up? No.

There is a clear difference.

Defined by Merriam Webster.

Ponzi
- an investment swindle in which some early investors are paid off with money put up by later ones in order to encourage more and bigger risks

Your site and many others fit this bill to the tee. Case closed.

Not quite.

1) These are not investment opportunities - at no point are they sold as an investment, at no point are returns guaranteed

Are you saying this about other Ponzis or yours?

[Vortuarackne]

I suggest you first define a ponzi and then define what the majority or sites are offering - do true ponzis label themselves as Ponzis? No. Do true ponzis warn investors they may not get their money back? No Do true ponzis have "rounds" which occur when funds dry up? No.

There is a clear difference.

Defined by Merriam Webster.

Ponzi
- an investment swindle in which some early investors are paid off with money put up by later ones in order to encourage more and bigger risks

Your site and many others fit this bill to the tee. Case closed.

Not quite.

1) These are not investment opportunities - at no point are they sold as an investment, at no point are returns guaranteed

Are you saying this about other Ponzis or yours?

My argument is of course based around my own site, as I cannot, nor would I want to speak for any other operators.

I'm not denying their are scammers starting their own Ponzis for a quick buck, but there are scammers in all walks of life.