I Am Unplugging My Bitcoin Cash Miners & You Should Too | ASIC Mining Is Dying

[philipma1957]

The numbers I am giving for 3 to 5 cents money  are exactly why btc diff is jumping.

For years many people said the big money farms are making moves to take over.

Well now they are.

Okay player a tells me he has 100 mega watts at 4 cents.

he wants cheap s9's is everyone unable to read math.

S-9's 10 % fail in a year

okay 100 mega watts = 100000 k watts  or 70000 s9's

he can get them with a psu for under 500

more like 450  so he has power for 70000  he buys 80000   giving him 10000 spares.

This is happening in multiple locations I know of 1 for sure 2 as a maybe  and bitmain is building 2 farms which means even cheaper then 450 for an s9 and a psu.

the guy with 70000 s9's mining makes 2.20 a day for each one  that is 154,000 .

Yeah he needs  more like guards and staff   so knock off 14,000  he makes 140,000 a day.  that pays off 311 s9s a day  all 80000 paid in 257 days.

I know futures alter.  but with 3,4,5 cent power  it is not a big deal.

and new gear so far does 79 watts a th  vs 100 watts a th.

[1714962468]

1714962468

[1714962468]

1714962468

[1714962468]

1714962468

[1714962468]

1714962468

[Metroid]

bitmain has been for sometime clearing its s9 mining warehouses for sxx 7nm, bitmain is 3nd in line after amd. Whoever is buying s9 for mining right now are for a huge blow, matter of fact, anyone buying mining equipment is for a blow.

[nsummy]

Why is this in the altcoin mining section?!

[nsummy]

The numbers I am giving for 3 to 5 cents money  are exactly why btc diff is jumping.

For years many people said the big money farms are making moves to take over.

Well now they are.

Okay player a tells me he has 100 mega watts at 4 cents.

he wants cheap s9's is everyone unable to read math.

S-9's 10 % fail in a year

okay 100 mega watts = 100000 k watts  or 70000 s9's

he can get them with a psu for under 500

more like 450  so he has power for 70000  he buys 80000   giving him 10000 spares.

This is happening in multiple locations I know of 1 for sure 2 as a maybe  and bitmain is building 2 farms which means even cheaper then 450 for an s9 and a psu.

the guy with 70000 s9's mining makes 2.20 a day for each one  that is 154,000 .

Yeah he needs  more like guards and staff   so knock off 14,000  he makes 140,000 a day.  that pays off 311 s9s a day  all 80000 paid in 257 days.

I know futures alter.  but with 3,4,5 cent power  it is not a big deal.

and new gear so far does 79 watts a th  vs 100 watts a th.

Phil you are forgetting about a lot of costs.  Yes if it were just electricity you would be correct.  You have property taxes, rent/mortgage, insurance, and a very expensive internet connection that absolutely cannot go down.  Then you have switches with 70,000 ports that also cannot fail, cisco routers, firewalls, physical security.  Network engineers to build the network, pen testers, monitoring software.  I'm sure even I am forgetting some things.    Look I'm not saying there aren't big farms out there, I know there are, but this is not as lucrative as you are making it sound.

https://mtstandard.com/news/local/cryptowatt-bitcoin-mining-operation-up-and-running-south-of-butte/article_8bad2d96-5721-5697-8b01-be5e435cddee.html

[DrG]

Remember all those new users who joined last year and we told them to hold off on mining and instead buy coins if they wanted to take risks - well failure to head that advice now I see a lot of posts of new users cursing at crypto.

I know the crypto world is 10x as fast as the fiat world as far as growth and volatility, but what sensible person thought ETH would sustain $5k and BTC would hit $100k so that rigs could pay themselves off in a month. It's almost as bad as the housing bubble.

Sit still, remain calm, turn off the miner (if you're paying over 10 cents/KWH), and see where we are in 6 months. There will be no arise chikun moon rockets under the Christmas tree this year (my opinion anyway). Hopefully 2019 more reasonable ICOs and possibly ETH POS (with corresponding price increase) will make this endeavor worthwhile.

[Metroid]

but this is not as lucrative as you are making it sound.

That is the problem trolls fail to see, they actually dont ever see the costs of something, they only see what something could possibly return and that tends to be the worst possible outcome in the long term. Another mistake trolls are doing is selling gpus 3 times less or more than what they have paid, if is not profitable then simply turn off everything, use the money to buy coins and then once it becomes profitable again turn them back on, in the end of the day people buying the coin will make mining profitable again.

[adaseb]

If you guys look at the hashrate charts

https://etherscan.io/chart/hashrate

You would think we would get like a 50% hashrate reduction, instead we just get a small dip which is either variance or people who switched to mining ETC (or XMR).

Same thing happened in first quarter of 2015. BTC hit like $150 from $1000 a year ago and there was one difficulty reduction period, and the rest of the year remained in a flatish uptrend till the end of 2015.

Seems there are many who believe in the technology and are just mining at a loss just to get some BTC.

[Metroid]

Seems there are many who believe in the technology and are just mining at a loss just to get some BTC.

You say mining at loss? only idiots do that cause it was explained countless of times that doing that you are at double loss, anyway, i do believe there are idiots out there but not as many as you trolls think, 70% of total eth hashrate are asics and asics never mine at loss where gpus is not totally negative at 0.10 per kw, whereas gpus give $0.15 per 30 mhs on eth, asics like the f3, given the same $0.15 to asics + another $0.20 the electricity they save  then we can come up with $0.35 per 30 mhs, so each 1.5 ghs f3 give around 20 usd, without any hard work whatsoever, to carry on till market recovers.  The only ones still earning money here are asic manufactures, whereas gpu miners get $0.15 per gpu, asics miners like bitman f3 are earning 20 usd per asic, not bad if you ask me and like i said before this crash is due to that, bitmain was earning 100 usd per eth asic, not to mention the other asics which were making much more money, asics destroyed everything again, if there were no asics then eth right now would be around 3k usd minimum.

[philipma1957]

Seems there are many who believe in the technology and are just mining at a loss just to get some BTC.

You say mining at loss? only idiots do that cause it was explained countless of times that doing that you are at double loss, anyway, i do believe there are idiots out there but not as many as you trolls think, 70% of total eth hashrate are asics and asics never mine at loss where gpus is not totally negative at 0.10 per kw, whereas gpus give $0.15 per 30 mhs on eth, asics like the f3, given the same $0.15 to asics + another $0.20 the electricity they save  then we can come up with $0.35 per 30 mhs, so each 1.5 ghs f3 give around 20 usd, without any hard work whatsoever, to carry on till market recovers.  The only ones still earning money here are asic manufactures, whereas gpu miners get $0.15 per gpu, asics miners like bitman f3 are earning 20 usd per asic, not bad if you ask me and like i said before this crash is due to that, bitmain was earning 100 usd per eth asic, not to mention the other asics which were making much more money, asics destroyed everything again, if there were no asics then eth right now would be around 3k usd minimum.

No you fail to see long term mining  ie year after year after year has completely different tax laws  then buy and hold.


You have lots of good info  but sometime you don't know what you are talkng about.

I will mine at a loss for August and Sept.  At that point I will start more reduction of mining.

I already know  what I am willing to lose from August to December this year.  About 1k So far I lost 300 in August.

The 1k simply  will reduce my early year profits and reduce my tax bill.

While buying 4k in coins does zero to help tax bills and tax planing.

This is USA law I know many places have different laws.
But for me to mine and hold the coins  say spend 4k  on power to earn 3k in coins

Gives me  more tax benefits then to buy 4k in coins and hold them.

Mining and holding  the 4k allows me a 4k power cost for taxes this year.

Since taxes are 33%  4 k power cost saves me  1333  which makes up for the 1k lost   4k power- 3 k coins - 1 k loss

   the  cost basis for the 3k in coins  will be zero when I sell    So I gain 333 this year    and when I sell in later years I will pay more tax.


buying 4k  and holding does zero.  this year.  when I sell  cost basis is 4k

Buying and holding the 4k spent  allows me no  power cost for taxes this year.  So I gain zero this year and when I sell in later year I will pay less tax.


This is a big reason for mining at a loss and you leave it out.

So don't.

This gives me a possible  1 to 2 years of loss without issues  for tax benefits  to be taken now.

[Metroid]

...

You are the one that manages your gains or losses, in the end of the day its your decision.

[onegiantcock]

For those who’s power costs are too high - look into budget billing. It lowered my monthly power to 1/3 of what it would have been.  Problem is, you have to sign up before you start mining

[VoskCoin]

Why is this in the altcoin mining section?!

Bitcoin cash and bitcoin core btcc are alt coins and this video is based around sha-256 mining that while I talk about bitcoin the the video directly applies to many Alts!

[VoskCoin]

Seems there are many who believe in the technology and are just mining at a loss just to get some BTC.

You say mining at loss? only idiots do that cause it was explained countless of times that doing that you are at double loss, anyway, i do believe there are idiots out there but not as many as you trolls think, 70% of total eth hashrate are asics and asics never mine at loss where gpus is not totally negative at 0.10 per kw, whereas gpus give $0.15 per 30 mhs on eth, asics like the f3, given the same $0.15 to asics + another $0.20 the electricity they save  then we can come up with $0.35 per 30 mhs, so each 1.5 ghs f3 give around 20 usd, without any hard work whatsoever, to carry on till market recovers.  The only ones still earning money here are asic manufactures, whereas gpu miners get $0.15 per gpu, asics miners like bitman f3 are earning 20 usd per asic, not bad if you ask me and like i said before this crash is due to that, bitmain was earning 100 usd per eth asic, not to mention the other asics which were making much more money, asics destroyed everything again, if there were no asics then eth right now would be around 3k usd minimum.

No you fail to see long term mining  ie year after year after year has completely different tax laws  then buy and hold.


You have lots of good info  but sometime you don't know what you are talkng about.

I will mine at a loss for August and Sept.  At that point I will start more reduction of mining.

I already know  what I am willing to lose from August to December this year.  About 1k So far I lost 300 in August.

The 1k simply  will reduce my early year profits and reduce my tax bill.

While buying 4k in coins does zero to help tax bills and tax planing.

This is USA law I know many places have different laws.
But for me to mine and hold the coins  say spend 4k  on power to earn 3k in coins

Gives me  more tax benefits then to buy 4k in coins and hold them.

Mining and holding  the 4k allows me a 4k power cost for taxes this year.

Since taxes are 33%  4 k power cost saves me  1333  which makes up for the 1k lost   4k power- 3 k coins - 1 k loss

   the  cost basis for the 3k in coins  will be zero when I sell    So I gain 333 this year    and when I sell in later years I will pay more tax.


buying 4k  and holding does zero.  this year.  when I sell  cost basis is 4k

Buying and holding the 4k spent  allows me no  power cost for taxes this year.  So I gain zero this year and when I sell in later year I will pay less tax.


This is a big reason for mining at a loss and you leave it out.

So don't.

This gives me a possible  1 to 2 years of loss without issues  for tax benefits  to be taken now.

Phil I think you are focusing on a very important point that I left out for the sake of a shorter video. Electric write off and the way those expenses play into taxes.

Does anyone work with any tax professionals that tote themselves as experts with cryptocurrency. I’d love to see them weigh in

[VoskCoin]

Remember all those new users who joined last year and we told them to hold off on mining and instead buy coins if they wanted to take risks - well failure to head that advice now I see a lot of posts of new users cursing at crypto.

I know the crypto world is 10x as fast as the fiat world as far as growth and volatility, but what sensible person thought ETH would sustain $5k and BTC would hit $100k so that rigs could pay themselves off in a month. It's almost as bad as the housing bubble.

Sit still, remain calm, turn off the miner (if you're paying over 10 cents/KWH), and see where we are in 6 months. There will be no arise chikun moon rockets under the Christmas tree this year (my opinion anyway). Hopefully 2019 more reasonable ICOs and possibly ETH POS (with corresponding price increase) will make this endeavor worthwhile.

Eth devs looking at pushing back PoS 1-3 more years O_o

I’m just here for the Christmas moon rockets

It’s funny if you advise users to just buy, as a miner yourself they’ll say you are just saying that so that you can keep all of the mining profits to yourself!!

[nsummy]

Seems there are many who believe in the technology and are just mining at a loss just to get some BTC.

You say mining at loss? only idiots do that cause it was explained countless of times that doing that you are at double loss, anyway, i do believe there are idiots out there but not as many as you trolls think, 70% of total eth hashrate are asics and asics never mine at loss where gpus is not totally negative at 0.10 per kw, whereas gpus give $0.15 per 30 mhs on eth, asics like the f3, given the same $0.15 to asics + another $0.20 the electricity they save  then we can come up with $0.35 per 30 mhs, so each 1.5 ghs f3 give around 20 usd, without any hard work whatsoever, to carry on till market recovers.  The only ones still earning money here are asic manufactures, whereas gpu miners get $0.15 per gpu, asics miners like bitman f3 are earning 20 usd per asic, not bad if you ask me and like i said before this crash is due to that, bitmain was earning 100 usd per eth asic, not to mention the other asics which were making much more money, asics destroyed everything again, if there were no asics then eth right now would be around 3k usd minimum.

No you fail to see long term mining  ie year after year after year has completely different tax laws  then buy and hold.


You have lots of good info  but sometime you don't know what you are talkng about.

I will mine at a loss for August and Sept.  At that point I will start more reduction of mining.

I already know  what I am willing to lose from August to December this year.  About 1k So far I lost 300 in August.

The 1k simply  will reduce my early year profits and reduce my tax bill.

While buying 4k in coins does zero to help tax bills and tax planing.

This is USA law I know many places have different laws.
But for me to mine and hold the coins  say spend 4k  on power to earn 3k in coins

Gives me  more tax benefits then to buy 4k in coins and hold them.

Mining and holding  the 4k allows me a 4k power cost for taxes this year.

Since taxes are 33%  4 k power cost saves me  1333  which makes up for the 1k lost   4k power- 3 k coins - 1 k loss

   the  cost basis for the 3k in coins  will be zero when I sell    So I gain 333 this year    and when I sell in later years I will pay more tax.


buying 4k  and holding does zero.  this year.  when I sell  cost basis is 4k

Buying and holding the 4k spent  allows me no  power cost for taxes this year.  So I gain zero this year and when I sell in later year I will pay less tax.


This is a big reason for mining at a loss and you leave it out.

So don't.

This gives me a possible  1 to 2 years of loss without issues  for tax benefits  to be taken now.

Phil I think you are focusing on a very important point that I left out for the sake of a shorter video. Electric write off and the way those expenses play into taxes.

Does anyone work with any tax professionals that tote themselves as experts with cryptocurrency. I’d love to see them weigh in

I've re-read Phil's post about 5 times and it honestly doesn't make much sense (literally and financially).  Yes, spending on electricity will lower your tax liability on what you mined.  But only to the tune of 33% (or insert your tax rate here).  Maybe I have a different definition of mining at a loss, but I define it as spending more on mining than what you are earning, I.E. The money you spent could have instead been spent on buying the coins outright with the results of more coins.  Or in other terms, instead of pumping $10 in the claw machine to win the stuffed animal, you could have bought 2 stuffed animals for $10.  If you are mining, then you pay taxes on everything you mine.  But if you mine and hold, and the currency goes up, then you are still paying capital gains taxes, no different than buying it outright.

[philipma1957]

Seems there are many who believe in the technology and are just mining at a loss just to get some BTC.

...

...

...

...

I've re-read Phil's post about 5 times and it honestly doesn't make much sense (literally and financially).  Yes, spending on electricity will lower your tax liability on what you mined.  But only to the tune of 33% (or insert your tax rate here).  Maybe I have a different definition of mining at a loss, but I define it as spending more on mining than what you are earning, I.E. The money you spent could have instead been spent on buying the coins outright with the results of more coins.  Or in other terms, instead of pumping $10 in the claw machine to win the stuffed animal, you could have bought 2 stuffed animals for $10.  If you are mining, then you pay taxes on everything you mine.  But if you mine and hold, and the currency goes up, then you are still paying capital gains taxes, no different than buying it outright.

Lets make coins = to 1000 usd

example 1

I made  5000 profit on mining this year,

I spent 5000 on machines
I spent 5000 on power
I mined 15000 in coins
profit = 15000 - 10000 = 5000  I owe tax on 5000  33% tax of 1667


rest of the year  I spend 4 k power  and earn 3 k in coins  loss of 1000

net 4000  gain  33% tax of 1333

in both cases I hodl  the coins mined  I would have 18 coins if they where  1000 each  

So I spent 4k   what happened this year I lowered my tax bill  by 333

second example

I made  5000 profit on mining this year,

I spent 5000 on machines
I spent 5000 on power
I mined 15000 in coins
profit = 15000 - 10000 = 5000  I owe tax on 5000  33% tax of 1667


I spend 4k  and buy 4k in coins

I have 15 coins then 4 coins  or 19 coins 

but I owe 1667 in tax not 1333.  end of year that is 333 or 334 loser.

but 


I have 18 coins in example 1
I have 19 coins in example 2

As long as I hodl them    example 2  cost me 333 more the example 1

So if those 1000 coins   drop to 332 or lower  example 1 is  the winner.

and example 2 is the loser

since the plan is to hodl  for 5 to 10 years.

example 1 has me 333 ahead  of
example 2

as long as I hodl.


If you read the long  thread above  I did say I can't justify  years and years of mining at a loss.

But with planning  I can mine at a loss from now until December 2017

[philipma1957]

Seems there are many who believe in the technology and are just mining at a loss just to get some BTC.

...

...

...

...

I've re-read Phil's post about 5 times and it honestly doesn't make much sense (literally and financially).  Yes, spending on electricity will lower your tax liability on what you mined.  But only to the tune of 33% (or insert your tax rate here).  Maybe I have a different definition of mining at a loss, but I define it as spending more on mining than what you are earning, I.E. The money you spent could have instead been spent on buying the coins outright with the results of more coins.  Or in other terms, instead of pumping $10 in the claw machine to win the stuffed animal, you could have bought 2 stuffed animals for $10.  If you are mining, then you pay taxes on everything you mine.  But if you mine and hold, and the currency goes up, then you are still paying capital gains taxes, no different than buying it outright.

Lets make coins = to 1000 usd

example 1

I made  5000 profit on mining this year,

I spent 5000 on machines
I spent 5000 on power
I mined 15000 in coins
profit = 15000 - 10000 = 5000  I owe tax on 5000  33% tax of 1667


rest of the year  I spend 4 k power  and earn 3 k in coins  loss of 1000

net 4000  gain  33% tax of 1333

in both cases I hodl  the coins mined  I would have 18 coins if they where  1000 each  

So I spent 4k   what happened this year I lowered my tax bill  by 333

second example

I made  5000 profit on mining this year,

I spent 5000 on machines
I spent 5000 on power
I mined 15000 in coins
profit = 15000 - 10000 = 5000  I owe tax on 5000  33% tax of 1667


I spend 4k  and buy 4k in coins

I have 15 coins then 4 coins  or 19 coins 

but I owe 1667 in tax not 1333.  end of year that is 333 or 334 loser.

but 


I have 18 coins in example 1
I have 19 coins in example 2

As long as I hodl them    example 2  cost me 333 more the example 1

So if those 1000 coins   drop to 332 or lower  example 1 is  the winner.

and example 2 is the loser

since the plan is to hodl  for 5 to 10 years.

example 1 has me 333 ahead  of
example 2

as long as I hodl.


If you read the long  thread above  I did say I can't justify  years and years of mining at a loss.

But with planning  I can mine at a loss from now until December 2017

In fact to explain a bit more

I am 333 or 334 ahead in cash for 2018

I am 18 coins vs 19 coins.

In 2019 december I sell  1 coin
  in both examples.

so I am 333/334 ahead in cash for 2018
in 2019  I am even  as I sold 1 coin in both examples  and my coins are 17 and 18

sell 1 coin in
2021
2023
2025
2027

even all those years.    coins are 13 and 14    I am  still yet to see  the real loss

sell 1 coin in

2030
2033
2036

even all those year.  coins are 10 and 11  I am still yet to see the real loss

sell 2 coins in

2037
2039
2041
2043

even all those years   coins are 2 and 3  I am still yet to see the real loss

sell a coin in

2044
2047

even all this years and I  now am 90 years old.

0 coins left in example 1

1 coin left in example 2  and still yet to suffer the loss as I did not sell that coin  so for 29 years  I am 333 usd ahead.

and in year 30  I fall behind by the value of 1 coin only if I sell it.

[Philopolymath]

Why does no one talk about the rate of ADOPTION...as in the actual USE OF BTC as a currency...
Well because it is a JOKE..total failure.
The rate of adoption is pathetic BECAUSE no one will buy or use it while it is so vulnerable to exchange speculators and MEGA FARMS who enjoy the cheap production and monopoly over it.
mega farms of cheap electricity have indeed KILLED BTC mining....and destroyed any chance of wide spread adoption.
Equally guilty are the parasitic exchanges and whale speculators.

I will NEVER pay for BTC or use it or accept it.
I'll mine the shit out of my tiny farm and sell most IMMEDIATELY and never upgrade or reinvest in gear again.

BTC died LONG AGO...People just don't understand that they are just profiting off it's funeral.
It NEVER had a chance...the rich banking power elite was NEVER going to tolerate loosing it's grasp on the power to CREATE MONEY.
They got caught napping but greed ensured BTC would be delivered right into their arms. And here we are.
Bitcoin core is OWNED by AXA insurance of Zurich...the chairman is a Bilderberg

[Metroid]

...

Where I live, we dont pay taxes if buying coins, only if we profit from it, for example, if i buy 4k in coins, i will not pay taxes at all, if those 4k in coins become 8k or any other value above 4k within a year then i will pay 15% from anything i made after 4k. So for example, if coins are worth 4100 usd after a year and i bought at 4k and i sell then i will pay 15% of  100 usd which is 15 usd. As for mining is the same 15%, so all in all for me buying coins is a lot more profitable than turning my money on a double loss. Well, like i said before everyone has to make their own calculation and determine what is worth more, that is the reason i say mining to be profitable only if returns your money in less than 100 days, buying and selling is way more profitable for me. Last year I earned 2000% by selling and buying, my friend mining made only 150% and mining was profitable, imagine now that since march mining is not profitable at all and I'm still earning money from buying and selling and my friend, well, shut off his gpus.

To finalize, if coins crash from 4k to 2k usd, i will never pay anything until coins are above 4k and i decide to sell, if i dont sell then i will never pay taxes, as for mining, my friend shut off his computers because  first as the equipment is paid off, anything he mines is 15% tax + electricity, altcoins at these prices, he is losing on electricity and he needs to pay 15% of tax and plus equipment is being devalued , so this is actually a triple loss, probably if you think about is a quad loss.

[TacticalCloud]

I too also unplugged my miner last month and ended up selling it. It's just not worth it at this time.