Bitcoin Forum

Is it worth it to mine Bitcoin? Aside from the altruistic act of securing the BTC network via Proof-of-Work PoW,  Bitcoin mining doesn't make cents or sense now or in the foreseeable future for the residential small-scale cryptocurrency miner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NCqR3jr2Rk
https://i.imgur.com/KlG1mtn.jpg

Still want a Bitcoin Miner? - http://geni.us/dBMn (amazon referral link)

There are many factors at play when you analyze cryptocurrency and cryptocurrency mining profits, however with Bitcoin price remaining stagnant and Bitcoin mining difficulty continuing to increase this becomes a very simple equation that the longer time goes on = the less Bitcoin/USD you will earn mining BTC.

Bitcoin Mining Difficulty Chart Coinwarz - http://bit.ly/2Lqr6w6
WhatToMine Bitcoin Mining Profit Calc. - http://bit.ly/2wmy67J
AsicMinerValue Bitcoin Mining Profit Est. - http://bit.ly/ASICm
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No BTC price boost means only cheap power mining makes profit.


Coins were 19990
Coins are     6750


an s-9 earns about $3.56 a day
power cost at 10 cents is about  $ 3.41    a 15 cent profit.

power cost at 9 cents is about   $ 3.07    a  49 cent profit
power cost at 8 cents is about   $ 2.73    a  83 cent profit
power cost at 7 cents is about   $ 2.39    a  $1.17 profit
power cost at 6 cents is about   $ 2.04    a  $1.52 profit
power cost at 5 cents is about   $ 1.70    a  $1.86 profit
power cost at 4 cents is about   $ 1.36    a  $2.20 profit
power cost at 3 cents is about   $ 1.02    a  $2.54 profit


note 4 cent power  in big scale 100 mega blocks is pretty easy to get.

and each s-9 make about 2.20  so  at 440  for a s-9 with a psu a 200 day payoff  add 30 days for a 15 percent dead gear rate and

buying 80000 s9's   sounds good

The solar array that buysolar owns is pretty much paid off.  we estimate 1 cent a kwat to maintain it.

So we sound be good to go well  the problem is the size of the array is 200000 watts  which is 33.3 kwatts 23/7/365 at a penney

which is about 20 s9-s.

or 20 x 3.56 = 70 a day - 7 = 63 a day profit and it shrinks  with more diff growth.

so even a 1 cent power setup struggles due to expansion and diff increase.

The first thing that I've noticed that didn't make cents is the the title: I Am Unplugging My Bitcoin Cash Miners & You Should Too | ASIC Mining Is Dying. That's misleading, specially for newbies.
BTC and BCH (you know the political war)
Contents explains about the increasing difficulty of Bitcoin and also provided links to Bitcoin-related profit calculators, charts and speculation sites.

Anyways, that's pretty expectable considering that ASIC manufacturers doesn't have a limit on who to sell (until now) and how many products to produce, mostly based on the demand.
Nothing's bad for them at the moment, quitting miners and lower sales can cause some minor problems to them but overall, it wont stop them from producing better models since it's their (selfish) business to begin with.

---

Saying "ASIC mining is dying" while trying to sale ASICs is whole new method of advertising, surely it will work as intended  :)

Yeah sure  ;D  , bitmain is also preping their new iteration of 7nm chips but they are keeping it secret so they can sale the pile of 16nm chips they accumulated...Next year will be full of 7nm ASIC chips.

Why would we care that you have turned off the ASCIs?

the market is dead. More people are going to be forced to disconnect their machines.

this is just the begining of the end.

5 cent power = $1.89 profit
4 cent power = $2.20 profit
3 cent power + $2.54 profit

so anyone paying 480 for an s-9 + psu   with 3 to 5 cent power does just fine.

since bitmain is selling a s-9 with a psu for 499 and giving a 55 dollar coupon  they are charging 444 + shipping

asic mining is thriving if you have 4  or more megawatts at 4 cents

that is 280 s-9's  which means you are earning $616 a day  all your gear is paid off in 280 days and you have a cash profit of more then 30000 usd

nobody that uses a lot of power has rates like that right now except contracts, agreements behind closing doors that nobody knows about, many countries in the world subside electricity at that price range to poor families, maximum usage 100kw per month, if more than that then they charge an arm and a leg each kw after that hehe, not even in china which used to have electricity free of charge given to poor families, its game over, whoever is still mining is at loss or steal electricity or somebody else pays their bill.

Denial is going to cost someone a lot of money. I’d quit trying to justify this fiasco.  We all got suckered by the rich. Take the punch and move along. I’ve said enough about this.  I hope everyone does the math and realized that when bitmain releases overclocked miner with same old chip that new miners are just around the corner.  Same ole bitmain. So Phil’s numbers will mean nothing as diff will shoot up crazy again diluting whatever you have.  It’s to the point where you have to have a million ASICS at 1cent per kw. Then it’s game over for decentralization. Game over. Yes I said game over. Understand?  Stop being in denial. Yes we can make mistakes. And you can too. It’s ok but it’s not the end of the world. Lol

BR

This is exactly why asics turn mining into centralization, greed is killing mining for small and home miners even when the big pump happened and everyone in their brother starting gpu mining the difficulty didn't rise compared to what asic are doing

The Gpu mining seems almost dead , I hope I am wrong but from seeing that a single mining rig of 6 Rx cards with a 180mhs hash rate makes only 0.50 mBTC daily which is 3.35 dollars pretty much says it is dead.

I am taking as an example the average cost of electricity which I think if we make an average in the world would be 0.07-0.08 cent kilowatt. A mining rig like the one above makes about 106 dollars a month and the electricity they pay is about 65-70 dollars, it is only a 30-35 dollars profit.

Add to that the initial cost of the miner and we are in a very grim situation here.

Until and unless the market goes back to the times of ATH of BTC and alt-coins, there won't be much profitability going around.
If this continues to be the case, more miners will shut down their rigs because there is no use in keeping them mining even if it makes break even as its just unnecessary strain on the miners.

hmm, if everyone stops mining btc, btc chain will stop moving... you know what follows, right?

Well, if 50% of the people stop mining, profit would go up double. No way everyone will stop mining at the same time, its just funny. Also 22THS Asic 10nm coming soon. Who say its dead :)..

It is not dead it is thriving for large 3 to 5 cent mines.

I know of a 100 mega watt and a 70 mega watt pair of sites being built.

Both places have access to 4 cent power..

Do the math these types of builds are happening where ever a 3 to 4 cent contract  for power is available.

It will crush little miners.

I was offered a 5 megawatt 1 year contract.but the project stalled.

Not sure I am onboard for that much power anyway.

It is about three thousand s9s..

A little more then I want to manage.

That is a big difference in terms of THS as the S9 actual version can do 14 THS and 22 THS is more than 50% improved performance. However for this to be the case in the profitability section we need that these new ASICS to have a 50% lower power consumption and then we will see real profit and huge increase in difficulty.

For the GPU miners I think it is a dead market right now unfortunately, rightfully to be turned off from the users.

My posts get deleted in the bitcoin section so I centered the post around an alt coin aka bcash. I agree with you.

I’m not trying to sell, just saying if someone still decides to... here you go lol

A viewer of my D3 review wanted to purchase my D3 for several thousand (last year), I told him this isn’t a good idea I’d rather just send it to auction and whatever happens happens.

He insisted on buying it ??? I’d rather give the best input I can, but also be credited when relevant if possible. Need USD to pay the bills lol

As always appreciate you bringing some numbers to the table Phil. Agreed as expected those with cheap power will be the only survivors but really across the board no one is making very impressive returns in this market. Yet somehow.. difficulty continues to climb.. who’s plugging even more machines in? Lol

You have forgotten several things in your calc:

1- Cooling.
2- Rent.
3- Shipping.
4- Customs duty.
5- VAT.
6- Overhead.

The breakeven point takes far more than a year considering these factors alone. Remember Bitmain only offers a 6 month warranty.

Dont get me wrong, if you have extra investment capital and willing to risk it, the payout will be better than most investment tools within a two year time frame. BUT . . .

Buying BTC on the next dip is a hundred times better than going into a mining venture.

Exactly, It's a hard pill to swallow. The numbers don't look good or favourable for the small-scale miners. I guess no one can stop bitcoin's centralization. I am never this pessimistic but your statement just got me! Damn you BR!


People who have anything less than 0.10 KW/h can continue to mine, I will be turning off my rigs soon, as a small-scale miner, it doesn't make much sense to me to keep mining. Especially at 0.15 KW/h. My smaller rigs with 4 Cards each, They are making around 50 cents a day after taking care of their energy bills. that leaves we with 15 bucks after a month of mining! I am just 1 riser break away from being in profit to being in Loss.


Exactly! these numbers don't mean shit! They are the purest form of Speculation. I remember when I made a few new rigs in Jan, They were predicted to break even after 15 months, Now the ROI is nowhere near those figures. Whether its GPU mining or ASIC mining, Unless you are ready to mine at the loss in the near future it's not worth investing in it. It can go the opposite way as well, there is no guaranteeing it. Maybe we will see another bull run at the end of this September and some miners will make their ROI, but as I said earlier there is no guaranteeing it, Its pure speculation.

The numbers I am giving for 3 to 5 cents money  are exactly why btc diff is jumping.

For years many people said the big money farms are making moves to take over.

Well now they are.

Okay player a tells me he has 100 mega watts at 4 cents.

he wants cheap s9's is everyone unable to read math.

S-9's 10 % fail in a year

okay 100 mega watts = 100000 k watts  or 70000 s9's

he can get them with a psu for under 500

more like 450  so he has power for 70000  he buys 80000   giving him 10000 spares.

This is happening in multiple locations I know of 1 for sure 2 as a maybe  and bitmain is building 2 farms which means even cheaper then 450 for an s9 and a psu.

the guy with 70000 s9's mining makes 2.20 a day for each one  that is 154,000 .

Yeah he needs  more like guards and staff   so knock off 14,000  he makes 140,000 a day.  that pays off 311 s9s a day  all 80000 paid in 257 days.

I know futures alter.  but with 3,4,5 cent power  it is not a big deal.

and new gear so far does 79 watts a th  vs 100 watts a th.

bitmain has been for sometime clearing its s9 mining warehouses for sxx 7nm, bitmain is 3nd in line after amd. Whoever is buying s9 for mining right now are for a huge blow, matter of fact, anyone buying mining equipment is for a blow.

Why is this in the altcoin mining section?!

Phil you are forgetting about a lot of costs.  Yes if it were just electricity you would be correct.  You have property taxes, rent/mortgage, insurance, and a very expensive internet connection that absolutely cannot go down.  Then you have switches with 70,000 ports that also cannot fail, cisco routers, firewalls, physical security.  Network engineers to build the network, pen testers, monitoring software.  I'm sure even I am forgetting some things.    Look I'm not saying there aren't big farms out there, I know there are, but this is not as lucrative as you are making it sound.

https://mtstandard.com/news/local/cryptowatt-bitcoin-mining-operation-up-and-running-south-of-butte/article_8bad2d96-5721-5697-8b01-be5e435cddee.html

Remember all those new users who joined last year and we told them to hold off on mining and instead buy coins if they wanted to take risks - well failure to head that advice now I see a lot of posts of new users cursing at crypto.

I know the crypto world is 10x as fast as the fiat world as far as growth and volatility, but what sensible person thought ETH would sustain $5k and BTC would hit $100k so that rigs could pay themselves off in a month. It's almost as bad as the housing bubble.

Sit still, remain calm, turn off the miner (if you're paying over 10 cents/KWH), and see where we are in 6 months. There will be no arise chikun moon rockets under the Christmas tree this year (my opinion anyway). Hopefully 2019 more reasonable ICOs and possibly ETH POS (with corresponding price increase) will make this endeavor worthwhile.

That is the problem trolls fail to see, they actually dont ever see the costs of something, they only see what something could possibly return and that tends to be the worst possible outcome in the long term. Another mistake trolls are doing is selling gpus 3 times less or more than what they have paid, if is not profitable then simply turn off everything, use the money to buy coins and then once it becomes profitable again turn them back on, in the end of the day people buying the coin will make mining profitable again.

If you guys look at the hashrate charts

https://etherscan.io/chart/hashrate

You would think we would get like a 50% hashrate reduction, instead we just get a small dip which is either variance or people who switched to mining ETC (or XMR).

Same thing happened in first quarter of 2015. BTC hit like $150 from $1000 a year ago and there was one difficulty reduction period, and the rest of the year remained in a flatish uptrend till the end of 2015.

Seems there are many who believe in the technology and are just mining at a loss just to get some BTC.

You say mining at loss? only idiots do that cause it was explained countless of times that doing that you are at double loss, anyway, i do believe there are idiots out there but not as many as you trolls think, 70% of total eth hashrate are asics and asics never mine at loss where gpus is not totally negative at 0.10 per kw, whereas gpus give $0.15 per 30 mhs on eth, asics like the f3, given the same $0.15 to asics + another $0.20 the electricity they save  then we can come up with $0.35 per 30 mhs, so each 1.5 ghs f3 give around 20 usd, without any hard work whatsoever, to carry on till market recovers.  The only ones still earning money here are asic manufactures, whereas gpu miners get $0.15 per gpu, asics miners like bitman f3 are earning 20 usd per asic, not bad if you ask me and like i said before this crash is due to that, bitmain was earning 100 usd per eth asic, not to mention the other asics which were making much more money, asics destroyed everything again, if there were no asics then eth right now would be around 3k usd minimum.

No you fail to see long term mining  ie year after year after year has completely different tax laws  then buy and hold.


You have lots of good info  but sometime you don't know what you are talkng about.

I will mine at a loss for August and Sept.  At that point I will start more reduction of mining.

I already know  what I am willing to lose from August to December this year.  About 1k So far I lost 300 in August.

The 1k simply  will reduce my early year profits and reduce my tax bill.

While buying 4k in coins does zero to help tax bills and tax planing.

This is USA law I know many places have different laws.
But for me to mine and hold the coins  say spend 4k  on power to earn 3k in coins

Gives me  more tax benefits then to buy 4k in coins and hold them.

Mining and holding  the 4k allows me a 4k power cost for taxes this year.

Since taxes are 33%  4 k power cost saves me  1333  which makes up for the 1k lost   4k power- 3 k coins - 1 k loss

   the  cost basis for the 3k in coins  will be zero when I sell    So I gain 333 this year    and when I sell in later years I will pay more tax.


buying 4k  and holding does zero.  this year.  when I sell  cost basis is 4k

Buying and holding the 4k spent  allows me no  power cost for taxes this year.  So I gain zero this year and when I sell in later year I will pay less tax.


This is a big reason for mining at a loss and you leave it out.

So don't.

This gives me a possible  1 to 2 years of loss without issues  for tax benefits  to be taken now.

You are the one that manages your gains or losses, in the end of the day its your decision.

For those who’s power costs are too high - look into budget billing. It lowered my monthly power to 1/3 of what it would have been.  Problem is, you have to sign up before you start mining :)

Bitcoin cash and bitcoin core btcc are alt coins and this video is based around sha-256 mining that while I talk about bitcoin the the video directly applies to many Alts! :D

Phil I think you are focusing on a very important point that I left out for the sake of a shorter video. Electric write off and the way those expenses play into taxes.

Does anyone work with any tax professionals that tote themselves as experts with cryptocurrency. I’d love to see them weigh in

Eth devs looking at pushing back PoS 1-3 more years O_o

I’m just here for the Christmas moon rockets

It’s funny if you advise users to just buy, as a miner yourself they’ll say you are just saying that so that you can keep all of the mining profits to yourself!!

I've re-read Phil's post about 5 times and it honestly doesn't make much sense (literally and financially).  Yes, spending on electricity will lower your tax liability on what you mined.  But only to the tune of 33% (or insert your tax rate here).  Maybe I have a different definition of mining at a loss, but I define it as spending more on mining than what you are earning, I.E. The money you spent could have instead been spent on buying the coins outright with the results of more coins.  Or in other terms, instead of pumping $10 in the claw machine to win the stuffed animal, you could have bought 2 stuffed animals for $10.  If you are mining, then you pay taxes on everything you mine.  But if you mine and hold, and the currency goes up, then you are still paying capital gains taxes, no different than buying it outright.

Why does no one talk about the rate of ADOPTION...as in the actual USE OF BTC as a currency...
Well because it is a JOKE..total failure.
The rate of adoption is pathetic BECAUSE no one will buy or use it while it is so vulnerable to exchange speculators and MEGA FARMS who enjoy the cheap production and monopoly over it.
mega farms of cheap electricity have indeed KILLED BTC mining....and destroyed any chance of wide spread adoption.
Equally guilty are the parasitic exchanges and whale speculators.

I will NEVER pay for BTC or use it or accept it.
I'll mine the shit out of my tiny farm and sell most IMMEDIATELY and never upgrade or reinvest in gear again.

BTC died LONG AGO...People just don't understand that they are just profiting off it's funeral.
It NEVER had a chance...the rich banking power elite was NEVER going to tolerate loosing it's grasp on the power to CREATE MONEY.
They got caught napping but greed ensured BTC would be delivered right into their arms. And here we are.
Bitcoin core is OWNED by AXA insurance of Zurich...the chairman is a Bilderberg

Where I live, we dont pay taxes if buying coins, only if we profit from it, for example, if i buy 4k in coins, i will not pay taxes at all, if those 4k in coins become 8k or any other value above 4k within a year then i will pay 15% from anything i made after 4k. So for example, if coins are worth 4100 usd after a year and i bought at 4k and i sell then i will pay 15% of  100 usd which is 15 usd. As for mining is the same 15%, so all in all for me buying coins is a lot more profitable than turning my money on a double loss. Well, like i said before everyone has to make their own calculation and determine what is worth more, that is the reason i say mining to be profitable only if returns your money in less than 100 days, buying and selling is way more profitable for me. Last year I earned 2000% by selling and buying, my friend mining made only 150% and mining was profitable, imagine now that since march mining is not profitable at all and I'm still earning money from buying and selling and my friend, well, shut off his gpus.

To finalize, if coins crash from 4k to 2k usd, i will never pay anything until coins are above 4k and i decide to sell, if i dont sell then i will never pay taxes, as for mining, my friend shut off his computers because  first as the equipment is paid off, anything he mines is 15% tax + electricity, altcoins at these prices, he is losing on electricity and he needs to pay 15% of tax and plus equipment is being devalued , so this is actually a triple loss, probably if you think about is a quad loss.

I too also unplugged my miner last month and ended up selling it. It's just not worth it at this time.

Bro you need to get real. Did you think the future was we all gonna GPU mine with gaming cards making $15 dollar a day per  card and and all gonna drive off to the sunset in lambos.

Btc is so high in value and growth potential, it's foolish to use for daily currency. Only meant for big purchase. Your better bet is to use bitcoin cash for everyday currency, since the future is not as secured as Bitcoin best to use bitcoin cash

Anyways you sound like your a fiat hodler and I hope you Enjoy those gains.

Sounds like he just simply hates crypto lol, I'd like to see some citations personally :D

A big issue with this (which is a whole other debacle) is that the tax situation is flawed which I won't completely open that can of worms right now . . AND ALSO the new 25% tariffs are insane, like the recent scammy 20k asic miner co zeon would carry a tariff of $5000 . . Hurting the case for mining even further ???

As we head into the last quarter of 2018 some dynamics:
1) All that pent up video card demand will eat up lots of those 1070/1080s that were used "temporarily" for ETH - I don't see these cards hitting rock bottom too quickly
2) Those poor 1060 3GB cards - man those are soon trash other than for mid level gamers (unless you're mining in Win 7). Hopefully nVidia tries to rip us a new one on RTX equivalent. I've populated as many game rigs as I could with 1060s - need to get rid of the last few stragglers. Even 144Hz monitors can't help support the price because anybody guying GSYNC is going to get at least a 1070.
3) This season the 144Hz craze (you can see it from all the posts in Reddit BAPC) will help eat up some of those RX580s. Vegas still have a home in Monero. If you haven't dumped your RX470/480s yet you've got some insane power rates.
4) RAM and SSD prices are dropping so people will build rigs for 4K systems. Console 4k is meh. Looking at the RTX pricing nVidia is not enticing people to buy new cards.
Plan you farm decommission appropriately. I made money as the market went up, and sold my gear at top prices - I'm still HODLing to pick up the coins. ETH dumping velocity from ICO addresses is still relevant.

Yeah most miners don't understand business. Except when starting, most large purchases have to be depreciated off a schedule (ie over several years). Section 179. This is true for cars, XRay equipment, video cards (I've written off all 3). Sometimes the IRS will give you a tax cupcake like being able to write off 10K of depreciation from a car the very day you buy it, but after that it falls on a curve (why buying was better for me than leasing).

Most ASIC miners are trash after about 8 months - I can't even fathom trying to write them off on a schedule over 7 years.  Unless you're running a big farm or you really want to burn your personal tax liability mining under a business just is not worth it.

You dont have a 7 year write off.  Section 179 was 500K instant and up to 2mill accelorated BUT since new Trump tax laws hit Section 179 is gone and its just the law.  So you can write off instantly any amount with a few exceptions like a building etc.  If it can be removed and taken with you then it can be instantly depreciated.  A driveway for example can't.

Hope that helps and of course talk to you tax guy.  If he is not a dip shit he will be aware of this stuff.

The reason i built my 4mw building was because of the tax hits I can avoid.  Well not avoid just kicking the can down the road is a better analogy.

here is a small rig 2 vegas and a threadripper

https://www.nicehash.com/miner/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53VbtjeProfitability


0.0004 BTC/day
2.92 USD/day
Efficiency
100.00%


note 2.92 usd  and gear burns 550 watts  which is 13.2 k-watts  I don't push it  it is pretty quiet.   13.2 kwatts at 10 cents is 1.32 a day  which means 1.60 profit a day  x 365 = 584  paid back each year and  gear has 3 years of warranties.  

also for 6 months of the year it is free heating.   Now does it mean I will have 70 gpus this winter  no I will be under 20.

So last year OCT NOV DEC  and JAN   2018 were  wonderful.     This year not so much.

Agreed Vegas have done quite well mostly because fluffy gives a rats ass unlike most of the other self serving devs bought off by ASIC money.

This is another example of why it's good to diversify your cards if you're building a farm. Jumping all in on 1080s for Equihash or RX 470s for ETH may seem good at the time but you're not able to ride out long dips like this.

yeah I sold off most of my cards and it's a lot easier to manage 20 cards instead of 500. I remember back when BTC was 13TH/s - I was a meaningful part of the network lol.

what do you do with ASIC if it noth worth to mine.

it can sell like vga card sell to gamer

what do you want to dothrow it away or keep it until btc price up?

Stick it on eBay as an auction. One man's trash is another man's treasure  ;)

would you mind elaborating on some decisions you've made mainly based around navigating taxes better?

Taxes . . a complicated system that is always changing lol

hey precisely. . someone gets it! lol

Good advice, my majority Nvidia farm -- was setting me up to get burned BIG TIME when the onslaught of ASICs in 2018 happened. .

One doesn’t just simple hate crypto.  It’s takes time and lots of understanding.  Once you get a grip and realize where this will eventually lead(hands of the few) then it makes it no better than current system.  Except one big exception. Other countries will know exactly the point in which a country decides to inflate its currency.  No more hiding it.  Everyone then has a choice whether or not they want to hold their countries crap coin or swap to something else. Wait a minute no normal everyday citizen is gonna deal with this kinda crap. Checking markets everyday lol. See if you have a shirt to put on your back before you head out the door.  I tell you what the worse kind of person in this space is the one that only sees roses.  I guess one would expect that on btc talk forum but healthy skeptical is needed else.....just not enough skeptics in the world(as some like to put it tin foil hat wearers or conspiracy theorists). Whichever flavor you like to spin it. Guess what that’s all of us.  We wouldn’t be here if we thought the current system had a future.  Sadly I’m starting to see a grim future for this as well. We need another way to trade for ASICS.  Person has to do actual physical labor to get an asic.  That would stop the Uber rich from buying them all up as they would actually have to labor for one.  Hmmm maybe good ole fashion hard work is btc Achilles heal. 

BR

While crypto is not perfect, it is certainly a better alternative than what we currently have

What about to get shit out as soon as possible (I mean sell asic miner ASAP), move on mining of something that is the most profitable and may be in next six months too, just mine most profitable coin and exchange it in something that you think will rise in future. I have no idea why these people mine unprofitable coin with hope of future rise while they can mine profitable coin and buy more desirable coin than they can mine.

You're correct other than those wishing to support a specific network OR avoiding additional taxable events OR simply lazy :D

Same goes for those mining @ a loss why not take that electric bill and just buy the coin(s)

Same thing can be said about alt coins mining. Imagine those retail miners like me which only have access to power cost of about >10 cents. The coins earned from mining just barely cover the cost of electricity, let alone the cost of the mining rigs. Mining just doesn't make cents anymore unless you are industrial miner with access to really cheap electricity near the source, like what the China mining companies do.

2 years ago, the most common argument we heard about the main advantage of mining (a.k.a solving cryptographic quizes) is its more decentralized and can prevent 51% attack. Not sure if thats the case now. Mining seems like a power play of the few giants. I really wonder what will happen for mining in the future when only a few have the controlling resource (i.e. hash power) in the entire network.

It seems to me, staking (or variation of staking) is the way to move forward.

I do agree mining is becoming incredibly less decentralized as every month passes. Also as stated 51% attacks have not been stopped by PoW because too many projects piggy back on others Algo's / enablers like nicehash / just simply giant mining farms that may have malicious plans. It is a frustrating time to see PoW under assault on so many fronts.

Vosk
I sent you a PM on the 6th and again on the 11th.
If you want an idea of what you can do with those miners have a look at it.

There are loads of ways of potentially making money..
I'm making 0.001BTC a day from 1 Rig alone ! (66 watts total power - Cost of 0.000057 BTC)
In a short time when it halves, that will still be 0.0005 BTC for probably the next 90 days...

Give me a shout sometime.

BTW...Happy Birthday TAILS !
J

Why not share this info with the community here instead of just Vosk?
Granted, i love the way Vosk does videos, but he is no supreme being.

If anything, i'd really be interested in talking to someone who is still earning from mining today (without owning a large mining farm with ultra cheap electricity).

Hi there.
Been there, done that.
Problem with BTCC is that its full of desperate sheep, so every sniff of any profit, and bang 1000 people start mining it, and if that's BTC or ETH, etc, then that's ok, but I mine coins where in entire nethash is 10mhs on scrypt (just an example) and there are probably only 10-20 of us worldwide mining it, so guess what, it leaks, the idiots take over, the diff goes up 10,000 fold, the price drops to 0.00000001 / doge or worse, then they all go to the next "best thing", leaving the coins screwed...so, like I have said several times in various threads, take your time, do loads of research, hope for a lot of luck, and maybe you'll find a good en. To put it in to context, I have over 2100 wallets (separate coins) over the last 2 years, and most are dead, some have been incredibly valuable (1 offs only) and some just kick in a small amount each day....also, work smart, not hard...I replaced 6 x 750ti the other day with 1 moonlander2, makes no more money, but about 1/10th the power cost....as I type i', mining 3 coins on 1 rig (4core cpu / 2x1030gt gpu)
As for VOSK, was actually a little dig...he's clearly struggling to cover his costs, I PM'd him a possibility and not even an acknowledgement...but that's life...

What i really need, is someone who can give me access to an AMD EPYC or Threadripper 2990W with windows on, for a week...that could be interesting...failing that, time to learn all about FPGAs, i think they're the future for all miners...
J
oh yeah, erm UK, and 18p kw/h, so you >10cent guys have NO excuses... :)

Not like I'm some super important popular dude but I get PMs about shitcoins daily

I don't like your comment

"As for VOSK, was actually a little dig...he's clearly struggling to cover his costs, I PM'd him a possibility and not even an acknowledgement..."

you messaged me in standard look at this coin I've been stockpiling for awhile - you should check it out now fashion.

If your interests were genuine you wouldn't be throwing a dig @ me, your message also lost credibility when it you messaged the same thing copy and paste the second time.



???

appreciate the support my friend :D & yeah I'm just one of everyone else!

Wow, looks like someone's ego has got the better of them

I don't normally PM anyone, unless i think they have great integrity and that i can either help them or need a little advice from them.
Re-reading the PM i sent you. there is a lot of good info there, a lot of work from me, and some tips...not sure what more i could have offered you really...
"u can take a horse to water, but can't make it drink" springs to mind....

Like i said, it was a "little dig" for not even bothering to acknowledge me, NO its not a coin i have been stockpiling ( I have about 400 coins i think), i dont even have the gear to mine it currently, and i was trying to help YOU out.  Sorry u get so many PM's and are jaded by them, i also know that feeling, i get 50-100 dodgy PMs a week too.

 I did try to reach out to you via youtube...but no joy, so I re-sent out, out of courtesy in case u didnt get it, so dont think i've lost any credibilty here, specially since i nearly make with 1 rig what u make with 50 gpus.... i was trying to help...you were the one who put up the "I Am Unplugging My Bitcoin Miners & You Should Too | ASIC Mining Is Dying" and  "50 GPU Mining Farm Earns Less Than $10 A Day vid" anyway, as one of your utube supporters and fellow miners, if you want any help, the door is always open...and always will be

That said, its responses like this that put me off helping others...
J

My response had no ego, you were disrespectful -- period. However I'm not looking to drag this out into some sort of internet argument.

I don't have a problem with you or anything and I appreciate anyone taking the time to help me increase my mining profitability.

You get butthurt pretty fast Vosk.

I have noticed that.

 ;D

The most profitable coin to mine for 2018 and the end of 2017 for me was and its still is IntenseCoin (ITNS)
Wokring on Cryptonote techonolgy and cryptonighe algorithm for me this was the most profitable coin ever.

You're response is full of ego, and clearly you don't actually want any help or suggestions. I wasn't disrespectful - you ignored me so I reached out a second time, and i don't fell very appreciated having put time and effort into that PM for you. You could have just PM'd me. Re read my PM if you havent binned it, i think the suggestion still might stand, and it's one of many I have to offer.
I have mined over 2100 different coins in the past 2-3 years, follow up on about 95% of all suggestions made to me, and yes as a result of that get about 30 viruses a week, and lots of not so funny pop-ups, and each one i assess, briefly document (so hopefully i dont get fooled twice) and then move on. About 90% are scams or shitcoins, and I have found their is literally no way to find "the genuine one" without feeling that pain of going through each one of them.

Anyways, what you have unfortunately shown me , is that even when someone asks for suggestions, not to offer any. Just a simple return PM to say "Thanks but no Thanks" was all it needed, literally 2 seconds of your time....
I'm sure your ego will force you to respond publicly one more time, but for me it ends here. I'm here to help if I can, and I look forward to watching your channel.
J
Oh and for transparency to all reading this, 2 of my coins halved in value in the last few hours, so i am still mining approx. 50,000 a day, but they both went from 2 sats to 1 sat....however there are currently enough orders at 1 sat to keep me going for about 200 days

i suppose if you have the free time to set up all those VMs or such, download all those  wallets and blockchains and maintain them, and take all that risk to your coins and infrastructure, you could find the occasional nugget of gold.

to me thats way to risky and time consuming. ill take reliability and simplicity. for the most part anyway.

Back in 2013-14 when I first started mining, there were virtually no pools, you had to download the full blockchain....not really an issue, you open several wallets and let em sync...one i'm doing at the  mo i'm on day 11 and its still 14 weeks behind, but its not like it needs any intervention, just dooes its thing, besides its more like satoshi's vision....millions of miners, wallets open, full blockchains, decentralised background mining.....:)