I Am Unplugging My Bitcoin Cash Miners & You Should Too | ASIC Mining Is Dying

[lunobird]

Why does no one talk about the rate of ADOPTION...as in the actual USE OF BTC as a currency...
Well because it is a JOKE..total failure.
The rate of adoption is pathetic BECAUSE no one will buy or use it while it is so vulnerable to exchange speculators and MEGA FARMS who enjoy the cheap production and monopoly over it.
mega farms of cheap electricity have indeed KILLED BTC mining....and destroyed any chance of wide spread adoption.
Equally guilty are the parasitic exchanges and whale speculators.

I will NEVER pay for BTC or use it or accept it.
I'll mine the shit out of my tiny farm and sell most IMMEDIATELY and never upgrade or reinvest in gear again.

BTC died LONG AGO...People just don't understand that they are just profiting off it's funeral.
It NEVER had a chance...the rich banking power elite was NEVER going to tolerate loosing it's grasp on the power to CREATE MONEY.
They got caught napping but greed ensured BTC would be delivered right into their arms. And here we are.
Bitcoin core is OWNED by AXA insurance of Zurich...the chairman is a Bilderberg

Bro you need to get real. Did you think the future was we all gonna GPU mine with gaming cards making $15 dollar a day per  card and and all gonna drive off to the sunset in lambos.

Btc is so high in value and growth potential, it's foolish to use for daily currency. Only meant for big purchase. Your better bet is to use bitcoin cash for everyday currency, since the future is not as secured as Bitcoin best to use bitcoin cash

Anyways you sound like your a fiat hodler and I hope you Enjoy those gains.

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[VoskCoin]

Why does no one talk about the rate of ADOPTION...as in the actual USE OF BTC as a currency...
Well because it is a JOKE..total failure.
The rate of adoption is pathetic BECAUSE no one will buy or use it while it is so vulnerable to exchange speculators and MEGA FARMS who enjoy the cheap production and monopoly over it.
mega farms of cheap electricity have indeed KILLED BTC mining....and destroyed any chance of wide spread adoption.
Equally guilty are the parasitic exchanges and whale speculators.

I will NEVER pay for BTC or use it or accept it.
I'll mine the shit out of my tiny farm and sell most IMMEDIATELY and never upgrade or reinvest in gear again.

BTC died LONG AGO...People just don't understand that they are just profiting off it's funeral.
It NEVER had a chance...the rich banking power elite was NEVER going to tolerate loosing it's grasp on the power to CREATE MONEY.
They got caught napping but greed ensured BTC would be delivered right into their arms. And here we are.
Bitcoin core is OWNED by AXA insurance of Zurich...the chairman is a Bilderberg

Bro you need to get real. Did you think the future was we all gonna GPU mine with gaming cards making $15 dollar a day per  card and and all gonna drive off to the sunset in lambos.

Btc is so high in value and growth potential, it's foolish to use for daily currency. Only meant for big purchase. Your better bet is to use bitcoin cash for everyday currency, since the future is not as secured as Bitcoin best to use bitcoin cash

Anyways you sound like your a fiat hodler and I hope you Enjoy those gains.

Sounds like he just simply hates crypto lol, I'd like to see some citations personally

[VoskCoin]

Seems there are many who believe in the technology and are just mining at a loss just to get some BTC.

You say mining at loss? only idiots do that cause it was explained countless of times that doing that you are at double loss, anyway, i do believe there are idiots out there but not as many as you trolls think, 70% of total eth hashrate are asics and asics never mine at loss where gpus is not totally negative at 0.10 per kw, whereas gpus give $0.15 per 30 mhs on eth, asics like the f3, given the same $0.15 to asics + another $0.20 the electricity they save  then we can come up with $0.35 per 30 mhs, so each 1.5 ghs f3 give around 20 usd, without any hard work whatsoever, to carry on till market recovers.  The only ones still earning money here are asic manufactures, whereas gpu miners get $0.15 per gpu, asics miners like bitman f3 are earning 20 usd per asic, not bad if you ask me and like i said before this crash is due to that, bitmain was earning 100 usd per eth asic, not to mention the other asics which were making much more money, asics destroyed everything again, if there were no asics then eth right now would be around 3k usd minimum.

No you fail to see long term mining  ie year after year after year has completely different tax laws  then buy and hold.


You have lots of good info  but sometime you don't know what you are talkng about.

I will mine at a loss for August and Sept.  At that point I will start more reduction of mining.

I already know  what I am willing to lose from August to December this year.  About 1k So far I lost 300 in August.

The 1k simply  will reduce my early year profits and reduce my tax bill.

While buying 4k in coins does zero to help tax bills and tax planing.

This is USA law I know many places have different laws.
But for me to mine and hold the coins  say spend 4k  on power to earn 3k in coins

Gives me  more tax benefits then to buy 4k in coins and hold them.

Mining and holding  the 4k allows me a 4k power cost for taxes this year.

Since taxes are 33%  4 k power cost saves me  1333  which makes up for the 1k lost   4k power- 3 k coins - 1 k loss

   the  cost basis for the 3k in coins  will be zero when I sell    So I gain 333 this year    and when I sell in later years I will pay more tax.


buying 4k  and holding does zero.  this year.  when I sell  cost basis is 4k

Buying and holding the 4k spent  allows me no  power cost for taxes this year.  So I gain zero this year and when I sell in later year I will pay less tax.


This is a big reason for mining at a loss and you leave it out.

So don't.

This gives me a possible  1 to 2 years of loss without issues  for tax benefits  to be taken now.

Phil I think you are focusing on a very important point that I left out for the sake of a shorter video. Electric write off and the way those expenses play into taxes.

Does anyone work with any tax professionals that tote themselves as experts with cryptocurrency. I’d love to see them weigh in

I've re-read Phil's post about 5 times and it honestly doesn't make much sense (literally and financially).  Yes, spending on electricity will lower your tax liability on what you mined.  But only to the tune of 33% (or insert your tax rate here).  Maybe I have a different definition of mining at a loss, but I define it as spending more on mining than what you are earning, I.E. The money you spent could have instead been spent on buying the coins outright with the results of more coins.  Or in other terms, instead of pumping $10 in the claw machine to win the stuffed animal, you could have bought 2 stuffed animals for $10.  If you are mining, then you pay taxes on everything you mine.  But if you mine and hold, and the currency goes up, then you are still paying capital gains taxes, no different than buying it outright.

A big issue with this (which is a whole other debacle) is that the tax situation is flawed which I won't completely open that can of worms right now . . AND ALSO the new 25% tariffs are insane, like the recent scammy 20k asic miner co zeon would carry a tariff of $5000 . . Hurting the case for mining even further

[DrG]

As we head into the last quarter of 2018 some dynamics:
1) All that pent up video card demand will eat up lots of those 1070/1080s that were used "temporarily" for ETH - I don't see these cards hitting rock bottom too quickly
2) Those poor 1060 3GB cards - man those are soon trash other than for mid level gamers (unless you're mining in Win 7). Hopefully nVidia tries to rip us a new one on RTX equivalent. I've populated as many game rigs as I could with 1060s - need to get rid of the last few stragglers. Even 144Hz monitors can't help support the price because anybody guying GSYNC is going to get at least a 1070.
3) This season the 144Hz craze (you can see it from all the posts in Reddit BAPC) will help eat up some of those RX580s. Vegas still have a home in Monero. If you haven't dumped your RX470/480s yet you've got some insane power rates.
4) RAM and SSD prices are dropping so people will build rigs for 4K systems. Console 4k is meh. Looking at the RTX pricing nVidia is not enticing people to buy new cards.
Plan you farm decommission appropriately. I made money as the market went up, and sold my gear at top prices - I'm still HODLing to pick up the coins. ETH dumping velocity from ICO addresses is still relevant.

[DrG]

Seems there are many who believe in the technology and are just mining at a loss just to get some BTC.

You say mining at loss? only idiots do that cause it was explained countless of times that doing that you are at double loss, anyway, i do believe there are idiots out there but not as many as you trolls think, 70% of total eth hashrate are asics and asics never mine at loss where gpus is not totally negative at 0.10 per kw, whereas gpus give $0.15 per 30 mhs on eth, asics like the f3, given the same $0.15 to asics + another $0.20 the electricity they save  then we can come up with $0.35 per 30 mhs, so each 1.5 ghs f3 give around 20 usd, without any hard work whatsoever, to carry on till market recovers.  The only ones still earning money here are asic manufactures, whereas gpu miners get $0.15 per gpu, asics miners like bitman f3 are earning 20 usd per asic, not bad if you ask me and like i said before this crash is due to that, bitmain was earning 100 usd per eth asic, not to mention the other asics which were making much more money, asics destroyed everything again, if there were no asics then eth right now would be around 3k usd minimum.

No you fail to see long term mining  ie year after year after year has completely different tax laws  then buy and hold.


You have lots of good info  but sometime you don't know what you are talkng about.

I will mine at a loss for August and Sept.  At that point I will start more reduction of mining.

I already know  what I am willing to lose from August to December this year.  About 1k So far I lost 300 in August.

The 1k simply  will reduce my early year profits and reduce my tax bill.

While buying 4k in coins does zero to help tax bills and tax planing.

This is USA law I know many places have different laws.
But for me to mine and hold the coins  say spend 4k  on power to earn 3k in coins

Gives me  more tax benefits then to buy 4k in coins and hold them.

Mining and holding  the 4k allows me a 4k power cost for taxes this year.

Since taxes are 33%  4 k power cost saves me  1333  which makes up for the 1k lost   4k power- 3 k coins - 1 k loss

   the  cost basis for the 3k in coins  will be zero when I sell    So I gain 333 this year    and when I sell in later years I will pay more tax.


buying 4k  and holding does zero.  this year.  when I sell  cost basis is 4k

Buying and holding the 4k spent  allows me no  power cost for taxes this year.  So I gain zero this year and when I sell in later year I will pay less tax.


This is a big reason for mining at a loss and you leave it out.

So don't.

This gives me a possible  1 to 2 years of loss without issues  for tax benefits  to be taken now.

Phil I think you are focusing on a very important point that I left out for the sake of a shorter video. Electric write off and the way those expenses play into taxes.

Does anyone work with any tax professionals that tote themselves as experts with cryptocurrency. I’d love to see them weigh in

I've re-read Phil's post about 5 times and it honestly doesn't make much sense (literally and financially).  Yes, spending on electricity will lower your tax liability on what you mined.  But only to the tune of 33% (or insert your tax rate here).  Maybe I have a different definition of mining at a loss, but I define it as spending more on mining than what you are earning, I.E. The money you spent could have instead been spent on buying the coins outright with the results of more coins.  Or in other terms, instead of pumping $10 in the claw machine to win the stuffed animal, you could have bought 2 stuffed animals for $10.  If you are mining, then you pay taxes on everything you mine.  But if you mine and hold, and the currency goes up, then you are still paying capital gains taxes, no different than buying it outright.

A big issue with this (which is a whole other debacle) is that the tax situation is flawed which I won't completely open that can of worms right now . . AND ALSO the new 25% tariffs are insane, like the recent scammy 20k asic miner co zeon would carry a tariff of $5000 . . Hurting the case for mining even further

Yeah most miners don't understand business. Except when starting, most large purchases have to be depreciated off a schedule (ie over several years). Section 179. This is true for cars, XRay equipment, video cards (I've written off all 3). Sometimes the IRS will give you a tax cupcake like being able to write off 10K of depreciation from a car the very day you buy it, but after that it falls on a curve (why buying was better for me than leasing).

Most ASIC miners are trash after about 8 months - I can't even fathom trying to write them off on a schedule over 7 years.  Unless you're running a big farm or you really want to burn your personal tax liability mining under a business just is not worth it.

[dagarair]

You dont have a 7 year write off.  Section 179 was 500K instant and up to 2mill accelorated BUT since new Trump tax laws hit Section 179 is gone and its just the law.  So you can write off instantly any amount with a few exceptions like a building etc.  If it can be removed and taken with you then it can be instantly depreciated.  A driveway for example can't.

Hope that helps and of course talk to you tax guy.  If he is not a dip shit he will be aware of this stuff.

The reason i built my 4mw building was because of the tax hits I can avoid.  Well not avoid just kicking the can down the road is a better analogy.

[philipma1957]

As we head into the last quarter of 2018 some dynamics:
1) All that pent up video card demand will eat up lots of those 1070/1080s that were used "temporarily" for ETH - I don't see these cards hitting rock bottom too quickly
2) Those poor 1060 3GB cards - man those are soon trash other than for mid level gamers (unless you're mining in Win 7). Hopefully nVidia tries to rip us a new one on RTX equivalent. I've populated as many game rigs as I could with 1060s - need to get rid of the last few stragglers. Even 144Hz monitors can't help support the price because anybody guying GSYNC is going to get at least a 1070.
3) This season the 144Hz craze (you can see it from all the posts in Reddit BAPC) will help eat up some of those RX580s. Vegas still have a home in Monero. If you haven't dumped your RX470/480s yet you've got some insane power rates.
4) RAM and SSD prices are dropping so people will build rigs for 4K systems. Console 4k is meh. Looking at the RTX pricing nVidia is not enticing people to buy new cards.
Plan you farm decommission appropriately. I made money as the market went up, and sold my gear at top prices - I'm still HODLing to pick up the coins. ETH dumping velocity from ICO addresses is still relevant.

here is a small rig 2 vegas and a threadripper

https://www.nicehash.com/miner/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53VbtjeProfitability


0.0004 BTC/day
2.92 USD/day
Efficiency
100.00%


note 2.92 usd  and gear burns 550 watts  which is 13.2 k-watts  I don't push it  it is pretty quiet.   13.2 kwatts at 10 cents is 1.32 a day  which means 1.60 profit a day  x 365 = 584  paid back each year and  gear has 3 years of warranties.  

also for 6 months of the year it is free heating.   Now does it mean I will have 70 gpus this winter  no I will be under 20.

So last year OCT NOV DEC  and JAN   2018 were  wonderful.     This year not so much.

[DrG]

As we head into the last quarter of 2018 some dynamics:
1) All that pent up video card demand will eat up lots of those 1070/1080s that were used "temporarily" for ETH - I don't see these cards hitting rock bottom too quickly
2) Those poor 1060 3GB cards - man those are soon trash other than for mid level gamers (unless you're mining in Win 7). Hopefully nVidia tries to rip us a new one on RTX equivalent. I've populated as many game rigs as I could with 1060s - need to get rid of the last few stragglers. Even 144Hz monitors can't help support the price because anybody guying GSYNC is going to get at least a 1070.
3) This season the 144Hz craze (you can see it from all the posts in Reddit BAPC) will help eat up some of those RX580s. Vegas still have a home in Monero. If you haven't dumped your RX470/480s yet you've got some insane power rates.
4) RAM and SSD prices are dropping so people will build rigs for 4K systems. Console 4k is meh. Looking at the RTX pricing nVidia is not enticing people to buy new cards.
Plan you farm decommission appropriately. I made money as the market went up, and sold my gear at top prices - I'm still HODLing to pick up the coins. ETH dumping velocity from ICO addresses is still relevant.

here is a small rig 2 vegas and a threadripper

https://www.nicehash.com/miner/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53VbtjeProfitability


0.0004 BTC/day
2.92 USD/day
Efficiency
100.00%


note 2.92 usd  and gear burns 550 watts  which is 13.2 k-watts  I don't push it  it is pretty quiet.   13.2 kwatts at 10 cents is 1.32 a day  which means 1.60 profit a day  x 365 = 584  paid back each year and  gear has 3 years of warranties.  

also for 6 months of the year it is free heating.   Now does it mean I will have 70 gpus this winter  no I will be under 20.

So last year OCT NOV DEC  and JAN   2018 were  wonderful.     This year not so much.

Agreed Vegas have done quite well mostly because fluffy gives a rats ass unlike most of the other self serving devs bought off by ASIC money.

This is another example of why it's good to diversify your cards if you're building a farm. Jumping all in on 1080s for Equihash or RX 470s for ETH may seem good at the time but you're not able to ride out long dips like this.

yeah I sold off most of my cards and it's a lot easier to manage 20 cards instead of 500. I remember back when BTC was 13TH/s - I was a meaningful part of the network lol.

[HE[A]RTLESS]

what do you do with ASIC if it noth worth to mine.

it can sell like vga card sell to gamer

what do you want to dothrow it away or keep it until btc price up?

[User44a]

what do you do with ASIC if it noth worth to mine.

it can sell like vga card sell to gamer

what do you want to dothrow it away or keep it until btc price up?

Stick it on eBay as an auction. One man's trash is another man's treasure 

[VoskCoin]

You dont have a 7 year write off.  Section 179 was 500K instant and up to 2mill accelorated BUT since new Trump tax laws hit Section 179 is gone and its just the law.  So you can write off instantly any amount with a few exceptions like a building etc.  If it can be removed and taken with you then it can be instantly depreciated.  A driveway for example can't.

Hope that helps and of course talk to you tax guy.  If he is not a dip shit he will be aware of this stuff.

The reason i built my 4mw building was because of the tax hits I can avoid.  Well not avoid just kicking the can down the road is a better analogy.

would you mind elaborating on some decisions you've made mainly based around navigating taxes better?

Taxes . . a complicated system that is always changing lol

[VoskCoin]

what do you do with ASIC if it noth worth to mine.

it can sell like vga card sell to gamer

what do you want to dothrow it away or keep it until btc price up?

Stick it on eBay as an auction. One man's trash is another man's treasure 

hey precisely. . someone gets it! lol

[VoskCoin]

As we head into the last quarter of 2018 some dynamics:
1) All that pent up video card demand will eat up lots of those 1070/1080s that were used "temporarily" for ETH - I don't see these cards hitting rock bottom too quickly
2) Those poor 1060 3GB cards - man those are soon trash other than for mid level gamers (unless you're mining in Win 7). Hopefully nVidia tries to rip us a new one on RTX equivalent. I've populated as many game rigs as I could with 1060s - need to get rid of the last few stragglers. Even 144Hz monitors can't help support the price because anybody guying GSYNC is going to get at least a 1070.
3) This season the 144Hz craze (you can see it from all the posts in Reddit BAPC) will help eat up some of those RX580s. Vegas still have a home in Monero. If you haven't dumped your RX470/480s yet you've got some insane power rates.
4) RAM and SSD prices are dropping so people will build rigs for 4K systems. Console 4k is meh. Looking at the RTX pricing nVidia is not enticing people to buy new cards.
Plan you farm decommission appropriately. I made money as the market went up, and sold my gear at top prices - I'm still HODLing to pick up the coins. ETH dumping velocity from ICO addresses is still relevant.

here is a small rig 2 vegas and a threadripper

https://www.nicehash.com/miner/1JdC6Xg3ajT3rge3FgPNSYYFpmf53VbtjeProfitability


0.0004 BTC/day
2.92 USD/day
Efficiency
100.00%


note 2.92 usd  and gear burns 550 watts  which is 13.2 k-watts  I don't push it  it is pretty quiet.   13.2 kwatts at 10 cents is 1.32 a day  which means 1.60 profit a day  x 365 = 584  paid back each year and  gear has 3 years of warranties.  

also for 6 months of the year it is free heating.   Now does it mean I will have 70 gpus this winter  no I will be under 20.

So last year OCT NOV DEC  and JAN   2018 were  wonderful.     This year not so much.

Agreed Vegas have done quite well mostly because fluffy gives a rats ass unlike most of the other self serving devs bought off by ASIC money.

This is another example of why it's good to diversify your cards if you're building a farm. Jumping all in on 1080s for Equihash or RX 470s for ETH may seem good at the time but you're not able to ride out long dips like this.

yeah I sold off most of my cards and it's a lot easier to manage 20 cards instead of 500. I remember back when BTC was 13TH/s - I was a meaningful part of the network lol.

Good advice, my majority Nvidia farm -- was setting me up to get burned BIG TIME when the onslaught of ASICs in 2018 happened. .

[d57heinz]

Why does no one talk about the rate of ADOPTION...as in the actual USE OF BTC as a currency...
Well because it is a JOKE..total failure.
The rate of adoption is pathetic BECAUSE no one will buy or use it while it is so vulnerable to exchange speculators and MEGA FARMS who enjoy the cheap production and monopoly over it.
mega farms of cheap electricity have indeed KILLED BTC mining....and destroyed any chance of wide spread adoption.
Equally guilty are the parasitic exchanges and whale speculators.

I will NEVER pay for BTC or use it or accept it.
I'll mine the shit out of my tiny farm and sell most IMMEDIATELY and never upgrade or reinvest in gear again.

BTC died LONG AGO...People just don't understand that they are just profiting off it's funeral.
It NEVER had a chance...the rich banking power elite was NEVER going to tolerate loosing it's grasp on the power to CREATE MONEY.
They got caught napping but greed ensured BTC would be delivered right into their arms. And here we are.
Bitcoin core is OWNED by AXA insurance of Zurich...the chairman is a Bilderberg

Bro you need to get real. Did you think the future was we all gonna GPU mine with gaming cards making $15 dollar a day per  card and and all gonna drive off to the sunset in lambos.

Btc is so high in value and growth potential, it's foolish to use for daily currency. Only meant for big purchase. Your better bet is to use bitcoin cash for everyday currency, since the future is not as secured as Bitcoin best to use bitcoin cash

Anyways you sound like your a fiat hodler and I hope you Enjoy those gains.

Sounds like he just simply hates crypto lol, I'd like to see some citations personally

One doesn’t just simple hate crypto.  It’s takes time and lots of understanding.  Once you get a grip and realize where this will eventually lead(hands of the few) then it makes it no better than current system.  Except one big exception. Other countries will know exactly the point in which a country decides to inflate its currency.  No more hiding it.  Everyone then has a choice whether or not they want to hold their countries crap coin or swap to something else. Wait a minute no normal everyday citizen is gonna deal with this kinda crap. Checking markets everyday lol. See if you have a shirt to put on your back before you head out the door.  I tell you what the worse kind of person in this space is the one that only sees roses.  I guess one would expect that on btc talk forum but healthy skeptical is needed else.....just not enough skeptics in the world(as some like to put it tin foil hat wearers or conspiracy theorists). Whichever flavor you like to spin it. Guess what that’s all of us.  We wouldn’t be here if we thought the current system had a future.  Sadly I’m starting to see a grim future for this as well. We need another way to trade for ASICS.  Person has to do actual physical labor to get an asic.  That would stop the Uber rich from buying them all up as they would actually have to labor for one.  Hmmm maybe good ole fashion hard work is btc Achilles heal. 

BR

[VoskCoin]

Why does no one talk about the rate of ADOPTION...as in the actual USE OF BTC as a currency...
Well because it is a JOKE..total failure.
The rate of adoption is pathetic BECAUSE no one will buy or use it while it is so vulnerable to exchange speculators and MEGA FARMS who enjoy the cheap production and monopoly over it.
mega farms of cheap electricity have indeed KILLED BTC mining....and destroyed any chance of wide spread adoption.
Equally guilty are the parasitic exchanges and whale speculators.

I will NEVER pay for BTC or use it or accept it.
I'll mine the shit out of my tiny farm and sell most IMMEDIATELY and never upgrade or reinvest in gear again.

BTC died LONG AGO...People just don't understand that they are just profiting off it's funeral.
It NEVER had a chance...the rich banking power elite was NEVER going to tolerate loosing it's grasp on the power to CREATE MONEY.
They got caught napping but greed ensured BTC would be delivered right into their arms. And here we are.
Bitcoin core is OWNED by AXA insurance of Zurich...the chairman is a Bilderberg

Bro you need to get real. Did you think the future was we all gonna GPU mine with gaming cards making $15 dollar a day per  card and and all gonna drive off to the sunset in lambos.

Btc is so high in value and growth potential, it's foolish to use for daily currency. Only meant for big purchase. Your better bet is to use bitcoin cash for everyday currency, since the future is not as secured as Bitcoin best to use bitcoin cash

Anyways you sound like your a fiat hodler and I hope you Enjoy those gains.

Sounds like he just simply hates crypto lol, I'd like to see some citations personally

One doesn’t just simple hate crypto.  It’s takes time and lots of understanding.  Once you get a grip and realize where this will eventually lead(hands of the few) then it makes it no better than current system.  Except one big exception. Other countries will know exactly the point in which a country decides to inflate its currency.  No more hiding it.  Everyone then has a choice whether or not they want to hold their countries crap coin or swap to something else. Wait a minute no normal everyday citizen is gonna deal with this kinda crap. Checking markets everyday lol. See if you have a shirt to put on your back before you head out the door.  I tell you what the worse kind of person in this space is the one that only sees roses.  I guess one would expect that on btc talk forum but healthy skeptical is needed else.....just not enough skeptics in the world(as some like to put it tin foil hat wearers or conspiracy theorists). Whichever flavor you like to spin it. Guess what that’s all of us.  We wouldn’t be here if we thought the current system had a future.  Sadly I’m starting to see a grim future for this as well. We need another way to trade for ASICS.  Person has to do actual physical labor to get an asic.  That would stop the Uber rich from buying them all up as they would actually have to labor for one.  Hmmm maybe good ole fashion hard work is btc Achilles heal. 

BR

While crypto is not perfect, it is certainly a better alternative than what we currently have

[shield132]

what do you do with ASIC if it noth worth to mine.

it can sell like vga card sell to gamer

what do you want to dothrow it away or keep it until btc price up?

What about to get shit out as soon as possible (I mean sell asic miner ASAP), move on mining of something that is the most profitable and may be in next six months too, just mine most profitable coin and exchange it in something that you think will rise in future. I have no idea why these people mine unprofitable coin with hope of future rise while they can mine profitable coin and buy more desirable coin than they can mine.

[VoskCoin]

what do you do with ASIC if it noth worth to mine.

it can sell like vga card sell to gamer

what do you want to dothrow it away or keep it until btc price up?

What about to get shit out as soon as possible (I mean sell asic miner ASAP), move on mining of something that is the most profitable and may be in next six months too, just mine most profitable coin and exchange it in something that you think will rise in future. I have no idea why these people mine unprofitable coin with hope of future rise while they can mine profitable coin and buy more desirable coin than they can mine.

You're correct other than those wishing to support a specific network OR avoiding additional taxable events OR simply lazy

Same goes for those mining @ a loss why not take that electric bill and just buy the coin(s)

[stiucsib86]

power cost at 9 cents is about   $ 3.07    a  49 cent profit
power cost at 8 cents is about   $ 2.73    a  83 cent profit
power cost at 7 cents is about   $ 2.39    a  $1.17 profit
power cost at 6 cents is about   $ 2.04    a  $1.52 profit
power cost at 5 cents is about   $ 1.70    a  $1.86 profit
power cost at 4 cents is about   $ 1.36    a  $2.20 profit
power cost at 3 cents is about   $ 1.02    a  $2.54 profit

Same thing can be said about alt coins mining. Imagine those retail miners like me which only have access to power cost of about >10 cents. The coins earned from mining just barely cover the cost of electricity, let alone the cost of the mining rigs. Mining just doesn't make cents anymore unless you are industrial miner with access to really cheap electricity near the source, like what the China mining companies do.

2 years ago, the most common argument we heard about the main advantage of mining (a.k.a solving cryptographic quizes) is its more decentralized and can prevent 51% attack. Not sure if thats the case now. Mining seems like a power play of the few giants. I really wonder what will happen for mining in the future when only a few have the controlling resource (i.e. hash power) in the entire network.

It seems to me, staking (or variation of staking) is the way to move forward.

[VoskCoin]

power cost at 9 cents is about   $ 3.07    a  49 cent profit
power cost at 8 cents is about   $ 2.73    a  83 cent profit
power cost at 7 cents is about   $ 2.39    a  $1.17 profit
power cost at 6 cents is about   $ 2.04    a  $1.52 profit
power cost at 5 cents is about   $ 1.70    a  $1.86 profit
power cost at 4 cents is about   $ 1.36    a  $2.20 profit
power cost at 3 cents is about   $ 1.02    a  $2.54 profit

Same thing can be said about alt coins mining. Imagine those retail miners like me which only have access to power cost of about >10 cents. The coins earned from mining just barely cover the cost of electricity, let alone the cost of the mining rigs. Mining just doesn't make cents anymore unless you are industrial miner with access to really cheap electricity near the source, like what the China mining companies do.

2 years ago, the most common argument we heard about the main advantage of mining (a.k.a solving cryptographic quizes) is its more decentralized and can prevent 51% attack. Not sure if thats the case now. Mining seems like a power play of the few giants. I really wonder what will happen for mining in the future when only a few have the controlling resource (i.e. hash power) in the entire network.

It seems to me, staking (or variation of staking) is the way to move forward.

I do agree mining is becoming incredibly less decentralized as every month passes. Also as stated 51% attacks have not been stopped by PoW because too many projects piggy back on others Algo's / enablers like nicehash / just simply giant mining farms that may have malicious plans. It is a frustrating time to see PoW under assault on so many fronts.

[minerja]

Vosk
I sent you a PM on the 6th and again on the 11th.
If you want an idea of what you can do with those miners have a look at it.

There are loads of ways of potentially making money..
I'm making 0.001BTC a day from 1 Rig alone ! (66 watts total power - Cost of 0.000057 BTC)
In a short time when it halves, that will still be 0.0005 BTC for probably the next 90 days...

Give me a shout sometime.

BTW...Happy Birthday TAILS !
J