European bank accounts of exchanges are frozen

[zby]

Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49664.0

Possibilities:

1. Bitcoins become harder to buy - i.e. price goes up

2. Trust reduced - price goes down.

3. Bitcoin will be regulated and legal - more trust - price goes up

4. Bitcoin will be regulated and legal - SilkRoad closes - price goes down

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[Cluster2k]

Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49664.0

Possibilities:

1. Bitcoins become harder to buy - i.e. price goes up

We're looking for more buyers to drive the price up.  Making bitcoins harder to buy can only make the price fall as liquidity disappears from the market, and those left holding bitcoins wonder if they can readily find a buyer in the near future.  It's only European accounts and not US, but still, it's a fair chunk of cash.

[Gabi]

1. Bitcoins become harder to buy - i.e. price goes up

Does not compute.
If less people buy bitcoins their price DROP.

4. Bitcoin will be regulated and legal - SilkRoad closes - price goes down

How are the 2 things related? Even if some government make some laws about bitcoin, it will NOT change it. It will stay anonymous and free, no matter what. That's why it was created, to resist regulamentations attempt.  

[Vandroiy]

No one is "responsible" for regulating Bitcoin, since any transaction could have happened anywhere on the world. Also, nobody really wants it regulated, apart maybe for taxation reasons. And those haven't proven a very good motivation for political change so far. I don't see a government putting all too much effort into that.

I guess a delay in the ability to buy BTC will mean what the speculators make out of it. If someone really wants to get BTC, he will find a way, and there's no real handle to deny the right to buy them.

BTW, I'm from Europe and this isn't the first time this happens. So far, Gox figured out a way to fix it somehow. If they don't, well, one more reason why fiat money systems are vastly inferior to Bitcoin.

[FreeMoney]

4. Bitcoin will be regulated and legal - SilkRoad closes - price goes down

Oh man yeah 

and what if they make the drugs illegal too 

what will you smoke before you post?

Is it not clear that SR doesn't care about 'regulations'? Am I on drugs?

[julz]

4. Bitcoin will be regulated and legal - SilkRoad closes - price goes down

Oh man yeah 

and what if they make the drugs illegal too 

what will you smoke before you post?

Is it not clear that SR doesn't care about 'regulations'? Am I on drugs?

Well it's not entirely true they wouldn't care about regulations. The ban on drugs actually protects their niche.
If drugs are legalized in some of their markets, then legal competitors may provide the same service cheaper and more conveniently.

[zby]

4. Bitcoin will be regulated and legal - SilkRoad closes - price goes down

Oh man yeah 

and what if they make the drugs illegal too 

what will you smoke before you post?

Is it not clear that SR doesn't care about 'regulations'? Am I on drugs?

Maybe not on drugs - but apparently rather frustrated.  What happened?

Anyway - just use your imagination.

[skilo]

HAHAHA ROFLCOPTER ROFLCOPTER.

I would love to see someone try to "Regulate" or "Tax" bitcoins. 

Good luck keeping track of that ginoumous block chain! hahahaha bwaaaahahahaha.

[klaus]

Re: European bank accounts of exchanges are frozen


“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”

 Mahatma Gandhi

[nmat]

It is still possible to send/receive money from/to europe, now without the cheap SEPA possibility it cost more fees - thats all.

you have to use the 'international wire' option at mtgox.

its a IBAN/SWIFT way, usually very fast (1-2 hours total on a businessday for my IBAN/SWIFT withdraws) but banking fees on both sides.

if you want to withdraw big money (>10.000 US$) its quite NO PROBLEM. Fees are together (both sides) about 45 US$.

You also can use intersango or bitmarket. I usually do my business at bitmarket when SEPA transfers are frozen at TradeHill/MtGox (which happens very often).

Note that we are mining at 4/5 blocks per hour so (theoretically) there are also less bitcoins coming into the market

[zby]

HAHAHA ROFLCOPTER ROFLCOPTER.

I would love to see someone try to "Regulate" or "Tax" bitcoins.  

Good luck keeping track of that ginoumous block chain! hahahaha bwaaaahahahaha.

They can regulate exchanges, they can regulate the coders.  You think you are safe behind your cryptography Maginot Line - but it's only your limited imagination.  

I don't say I am surprised - but it certainly is disconcerting to see that the subject of potential weaknesses of the bitcoin system is such a taboo here.

[Raoul Duke]

4. Bitcoin will be regulated and legal - SilkRoad closes - price goes down

Oh man yeah 

and what if they make the drugs illegal too 

what will you smoke before you post?

Is it not clear that SR doesn't care about 'regulations'? Am I on drugs?

Well it's not entirely true they wouldn't care about regulations. The ban on drugs actually protects their niche.
If drugs are legalized in some of their markets, then legal competitors may provide the same service cheaper and more conveniently.

Having lived several years in a country where Marijuana and hashish are legal I'll have to agree with you on the convenience but disagree on the price. Drugs are always cheaper on the blackmarket, and when I say cheaper I say at least 3x cheaper... Silk Road is expensive and only geeks that know nothing about real life will buy anything there...

[FreeMoney]

4. Bitcoin will be regulated and legal - SilkRoad closes - price goes down

Oh man yeah 

and what if they make the drugs illegal too 

what will you smoke before you post?

Is it not clear that SR doesn't care about 'regulations'? Am I on drugs?

Maybe not on drugs - but apparently rather frustrated.  What happened?

Anyway - just use your imagination.

Must have been in extreme state of mind. But always it bothers me when people are like "Oh, x will be regulated/outlawed and then close". Obviously not the case. And double dumb when talking about an entity that is already shirking laws. Okay, maybe SR decided it cares about regs on bitcoin use even though they don't care about regs on drugs, but 100% chance someone else will come along to profit by ignoring the laws.

[payb.tc]

I would love to see someone try to "Regulate" or "Tax" bitcoins. 

solidcoin on the other hand...

[klaus]

It is still possible to send/receive money from/to europe, now without the cheap SEPA possibility it cost more fees - thats all.

you have to use the 'international wire' option at mtgox.

its a IBAN/SWIFT way, usually very fast (1-2 hours total on a businessday for my IBAN/SWIFT withdraws) but banking fees on both sides.

if you want to withdraw big money (>10.000 US$) its quite NO PROBLEM. Fees are together (both sides) about 45 US$.

[anu]

It is still possible to send/receive money from/to europe, now without the cheap SEPA possibility it cost more fees - thats all.

you have to use the 'international wire' option at mtgox.

its a IBAN/SWIFT way, usually very fast (1-2 hours total on a businessday for my IBAN/SWIFT withdraws) but banking fees on both sides.

if you want to withdraw big money (>10.000 US$) its quite NO PROBLEM. Fees are together (both sides) about 45 US$.

German experiences. Germany is a country where transfers from one account to another IN THE SAME BANK can take 3 days.

I transferred some money from UBS in Switzerland to MtGox's account in Hongkong the other day. Took 3 hours and cost about CHF 12. Almost up to Bitcoin standards.

[Technomage]

It's not just this anymore. Intersango HSBC account got frozen, which I think is a serious development. All of this combined with how easily the rally was killed, I have to say that the short term and mid term price development is VERY bearish.

I'm out and I'm not even thinking about new entry points until we have some good news related to the bank account fiasco. I do think that Bitcoin will do just fine without the banks, but the mainstream potential is all but killed if the exchanges don't get the appropriate licences and accept regulation.

And if the mainstream potential is damaged like this, I'm definitely not thinking about buying coins at $3.x or even at $2.x. We're going deep down in that case and when we're there I'll consider buying again.

These are very interesting times, I've always based my positive outlook in three fundamental factors which are functionality, reliability and legality. Those fundamental factors don't look very solid right now with what's happening, so I'm waiting for good news before I can even think about buying coins again.

[cypherdoc]

It is still possible to send/receive money from/to europe, now without the cheap SEPA possibility it cost more fees - thats all.

you have to use the 'international wire' option at mtgox.

its a IBAN/SWIFT way, usually very fast (1-2 hours total on a businessday for my IBAN/SWIFT withdraws) but banking fees on both sides.

if you want to withdraw big money (>10.000 US$) its quite NO PROBLEM. Fees are together (both sides) about 45 US$.

i've always just used wires.

[tvbcof]

...
These are very interesting times, I've always based my positive outlook in three fundamental factors which are functionality, reliability and legality. Those fundamental factors don't look very solid right now with what's happening, so I'm waiting for good news before I can even think about buying coins again.

I put a good percentage of my outlook for Bitcoin on 'need'.

Right now there really is not much need for Bitcoin because, for all intents and purposes, the USD, EURO, etc are actually working fine for Joe Sixpack.  There is a limited (but not zero) need for some of the properties that BTC has which, I hope, will sustain the system for the time being.

The best case scenario is that the USD, EURO, etc will never have any problems and it will be blue skies forever.  I personally find that unlikely...our state sponsored monetary systems 'feel' to me like an airplane which is near stall speed (though I've been thinking that for a decade now...)  If there are problems I could see Bitcoin being a very useful thing to have in one's back pocket.

[Technomage]

I put a good percentage of my outlook for Bitcoin on 'need'.

Right now there really is not much need for Bitcoin because, for all intents and purposes, the USD, EURO, etc are actually working fine for Joe Sixpack.  There is a limited (but not zero) need for some of the properties that BTC has which, I hope, will sustain the system for the time being.

The best case scenario is that the USD, EURO, etc will never have any problems and it will be blue skies forever.  I personally find that unlikely...our state sponsored monetary systems 'feel' to me like an airplane which is near stall speed (though I've been thinking that for a decade now...)  If there are problems I could see Bitcoin being a very useful thing to have in one's back pocket.

+1

I agree with this. I'm not abandoning Bitcoin, on the contrary. I simply think that if exchanging USD/EUR to BTC gets more difficult than it is now, we won't be able to sustain the current price. That's why I'd be very caucious of buying coins right now, but I have no doubt that Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general will be very useful in some ways, for a long time to come.

And I haven't sold all my coins, I always have some in my desktop wallet and my mobile phone for day-to-day use. Not that I use Bitcoin every day, but I do occasionally. And I recently ordered a good amount of casascius coins, which I think are just excellent as collection items and long term investments. I intend to use them as savings gifts as well, to get people I know interested in Bitcoin.

But again as long as the main exchanges are having serious problems with their bank connections, painting a positive picture about Bitcoin, especially when we've had a massive price crash, is a bit difficult. And I live in Finland so convenient European bank transfers are very important, depositing small amounts using wire transfers is unacceptable. And most people deposit small amounts.