Why you shouldn't buy Hashfasts new "up to 800GH/s" "product"

[gmaxwell]

I posted this in the thread Hashfast has created promoting their "Yoli Evo Mining Board up to 800GH/s", advising you that in my expirence if you pay hashfast your funds will just vanish into a black hole of non-delivery and no communication.

Unfortunately, for some reason Hashfast does not want you to see this vital information about the integrity of their operations and the realities of their product non-delivery— so they deleted my post.  I think this is critical information for anyone considering doing business with Hashfast— and especially anyone considering buying in to another pre-order of theirs, so I've created a new thread for it. I can see no reason why these concerns wouldn't be equally applicable to their latest vaporware.

Just in case people are forgetting.

Hashfast is a bunch of thieves. I do not say this lightly: They have literally taken my coin, violated their contract, and provided me with nothing in return. I paid them 98 BTC for hardware "scheduled" to be delivered in October. It's March 2nd now have received _nothing_ and they have not responded to any of my past private efforts to resolve the matter— now spanning months.  (Copies of communications and certified letter tracking numbers available on request).

I am not some competitor or troll: I'm a moderator of this sub-forum and a developer of the Bitcoin reference software.  I have no financial interest or otherwise in any other mining hardware company. I mine personally to support the Bitcoin network.  I've made a genuine effort to resolve this matter from hashfast, but it seems instead that they plan on taking my funds and running.  I sometimes feel bad that I probably do get "more fair" treatment than others with a lower profile in the community, but if they're willing to do this to me then what are they willing to do to you?

Business screwups and delays happen, but in my opinion Hashfast has gone far beyond those boundaries and into the space of outright theft.  Every additional sale hashfast makes while screwing over me and other miners in this manner damages the Bitcoin ecosystem and discourages me— and presumably other small miners— from participating. I've taken what I feel to be a fairly soft hand in this so far, in the hopes that they'd make things right after they cleared up some of their startup hurdles— but with new products being promoted, it seems that isn't their plan.

I urge everyone to provide HashFast with no further business until they make right by their past customers.

If you're looking for hardware and haven't been (rightfully) scared off by the astronomic prices being charged by current hardware vendors— I can personally vouch for Bitmain's Antminer S1s (*), which are delivered promptly, with absolutely no pre-order nonsense, and perform precisely as specified. Cointerra products also appear to be competently handled (though current units only deliver ~1.6TH/s against their original 2TH/s spec, and at least my unit has some hashrate stability problems when run at full speed), and they've treated their customers with reasonable respect (e.g. compensating customers for delays above and beyond the contract).


(*) Disclosure, fwiw: Last year Bitmain sent me a prototype 90GH/s antminer for testing/development prior to their public shipping. I subsequently bought a couple others as a normal customer and have been pretty happy with them as have virtually all of their other customers. Rather than seeing this as a source of potential bias here I'd point out that any well run mining hardware company would get pre-production units out to developers in order to avoid the early product missteps that other companies like HashFast have had.

[Unacceptable]

Amen & good luck bud!!!!!!!!!!!! 

[dhenson]

Just to back up the OP claim.  I have also been swindled out of 89 bitcoins by Hashfast and am currently pursuing arbitration (along with many other customers) to attempt to get them returned.

Buyer beware.

[GodfatherBond]

Sorry to hear more problems and thank you for sharing. I was actually about to order from Hashfast but ordered instead from another company last October, not sure yet if it was any better...

My experiences so far...  Avalon Batch #3...  they delivered finally (only) three months late.
Now waiting for Bitmine delivery which was promised last week of Dec, but nothing yet. Anyway already two months late.
LA3M unit from asiabtc / lightingasic came actually fast a bit over week after payment!

Generally buying ASICs seems to be really risky.

[jimmothy]

Sorry to hear more problems and thank you for sharing. I was actually about to order from Hashfast but ordered instead from another company last October, not sure yet if it was any better...

My experiences so far...  Avalon Batch #3...  they delivered finally (only) three months late.
Now waiting for Bitmine delivery which was promised last week of Dec, but nothing yet. Anyway already two months late.
LA3M unit from asiabtc / lightingasic came actually fast a bit over week after payment!

Generally buyingpreordering ASICs seems to be really risky.

FTFY

[gmaxwell]

I've heard from other people that they haven't spoken up on this because of HashFast's obscene NDA they added after Jan 1st for (some) customers to actually receive anything.  If you'd like to speak up and feel constrained by your agreement, please contact me. I may be able to help.

I'm currently looking for whomever owns hashfastscam.org (or similar domains) and I'm also interested in getting in contact with other hashfast customers in the SF bay area.

And if you are thinking of buying their new product after seeing the above, I think a lot of people here would be very interested in hearing why.

[ninjarobot]

I'm also interested in getting in contact with other hashfast customers in the SF bay area.

I'm in the SF Bay Area, feel free to send me a PM. I visited their office in the past (and got lied to in my face as it turned out). I did receive my hardware in late January. It was not very stable but I've been able to iron out the kinks. No MPP of course, and looking at ~90% loss in BTC overall on this investment.

To be honest, I was just hoping HF would ship the damn MPP so I can leave all this drama behind me. I got caught up in too many scammy operations (Bitcoinica, MtGox, BFL, HF) and it is starting to leave a really sour taste in my mouth.

Bitcoin allow you to eliminate trust when it comes to the actual transaction but in the end you still have to trust individuals and companies so the sword cuts both ways. Arguably when it comes to pre-orders it just cuts your way.

So pre-orders and bitcoin don't mix. Off-chain custodial services (wallets, exchanges, ETFs etc) and bitcoin don't mix either. Looks like this is a lesson we all have to learn the hard way.

[Entropy-uc]

I'm also interested in getting in contact with other hashfast customers in the SF bay area.

I'm in the SF Bay Area, feel free to send me a PM. I visited their office in the past (and got lied to in my face as it turned out). I did receive my hardware in late January. It was not very stable but I've been able to iron out the kinks. No MPP of course, and looking at ~90% loss in BTC overall on this investment.

To be honest, I was just hoping HF would ship the damn MPP so I can leave all this drama behind me. I got caught up in too many scammy operations (Bitcoinica, MtGox, BFL, HF) and it is starting to leave a really sour taste in my mouth.

Bitcoin allow you to eliminate trust when it comes to the actual transaction but in the end you still have to trust individuals and companies so the sword cuts both ways. Arguably when it comes to pre-orders it just cuts your way.

Pre-orders and bitcoin don't mix. Off-chain custodial services (wallets, exchanges, ETFs etc) and bitcoin don't mix either. Looks like this is a lesson we all have to learn the hard way.

^This.

The time for pre-orders has ended.  If they can't ship it to you within a week, don't buy it.

[Techknowledgy]

So I'm just wondering, is gmaxwell going to start calling out all of the overpromising/underdelivering, cough BFL cough, hardware companies or just the one's he has money invested in and ignore the one's who have invested money in advertising here. Because there are/have been a lot of them out there and I haven't seen this kind of response until now.

Regardless, this isn't all that surprising after my initial meetings with their team before they went public. Something was just off and then I found out they claimed that someone who is actually financially backing another company financed their operations. The dog and pony show was awesome, but when it came down to it, Lil Sebastian was/is late to the party still.

[gmaxwell]

So I'm just wondering, is gmaxwell going to start calling out all of the overpromising/underdelivering, cough BFL cough, hardware companies or just the one's he has money invested in and ignore the one's who have invested money in advertising here. Because there are/have been a lot of them out there and I haven't seen this kind of response until now.

I'm speaking from my own experience. Sadly, I can't really afford to buy a couple units from every vendor that comes along.  You'll note that I'm not using any special moderator powers here, e.g. kicking Hashfast's ass for deleting my post in their self moderated thread. I'm here as a (well known) community member.

(Y'all wanna fund me to buy one of every other piece of hardware, I will— and then I'll be glad to blast the everlasting crap out of them when they don't deliver... kinda costly though)

Regardless, this isn't all that surprising after my initial meetings with their team before they went public. Something was just off and then I found out they claimed that someone who is actually financially backing another company financed their operations. The dog and pony show was awesome, but when it came down to it, Lil Sebastian was/is late to the party still.

I was in Germany at the time of their announcement and couldn't do my normal due diligence which probably would have saved me— and did from several other vendors before.

From now on I wouldn't agree to a preorder without using a multisig escrow or alike just to prevent the current situation.

[Techknowledgy]

So I'm just wondering, is gmaxwell going to start calling out all of the overpromising/underdelivering, cough BFL cough, hardware companies or just the one's he has money invested in and ignore the one's who have invested money in advertising here. Because there are/have been a lot of them out there and I haven't seen this kind of response until now.

I'm speaking from my own experience. Sadly, I can't really afford to buy a couple units from every vendor that comes along.  You'll note that I'm not using any special moderator powers here, e.g. kicking Hashfast's ass for deleting my post in their self moderated thread. I'm here as a (well known) community member.

(Y'all wanna fund me to buy one of every other piece of hardware, I will— and then I'll be glad to blast the everlasting crap out of them when they don't deliver... kinda costly though)

Regardless, this isn't all that surprising after my initial meetings with their team before they went public. Something was just off and then I found out they claimed that someone who is actually financially backing another company financed their operations. The dog and pony show was awesome, but when it came down to it, Lil Sebastian was/is late to the party still.

I was in Germany at the time of their announcement and couldn't do my normal due diligence which probably would have saved me— and did from several other vendors before.

From now on I wouldn't agree to a preorder without using a multisig escrow or alike just to prevent the current situation.

Thank you for the response. That might have came off a little harsher than I intended it to, but as a Bitcoin consultant I have lost my patience for these snake-oil salesman coming through town. I understand that you can only speak from your own experience and can't buy everything out there, but as you are well-known in the community your voice carries more weight than say, cedividad, (no offense intended cedividad). I respect that you didn't use your moderator powers as you could have and instead started a separate thread, which I think is commendable, but as I said your voice carries weight and it made the rounds of the internet I frequent VERY quickly.

As an aside, maybe we should have a sort of Bitcoin Miner Foundation, or something of the sort in order to give more of a voice and power to miners in some way. They can be funded by miners to buy miners and then do a whole consumer report of the whole situation. This would at least provide more transparency and accountability for our side of things. It might be a dumb idea or brought up before, but it's one I've kicked around for a bit.

Thank you for calling out Hashfast and relaying your personal experience.

[SkyscraperFarms]

So I'm just wondering, is gmaxwell going to start calling out all of the overpromising/underdelivering, cough BFL cough, hardware companies or just the one's he has money invested in and ignore the one's who have invested money in advertising here. Because there are/have been a lot of them out there and I haven't seen this kind of response until now.

I'm speaking from my own experience. Sadly, I can't really afford to buy a couple units from every vendor that comes along.  You'll note that I'm not using any special moderator powers here, e.g. kicking Hashfast's ass for deleting my post in their self moderated thread. I'm here as a (well known) community member.

(Y'all wanna fund me to buy one of every other piece of hardware, I will— and then I'll be glad to blast the everlasting crap out of them when they don't deliver... kinda costly though)

Regardless, this isn't all that surprising after my initial meetings with their team before they went public. Something was just off and then I found out they claimed that someone who is actually financially backing another company financed their operations. The dog and pony show was awesome, but when it came down to it, Lil Sebastian was/is late to the party still.

I was in Germany at the time of their announcement and couldn't do my normal due diligence which probably would have saved me— and did from several other vendors before.

From now on I wouldn't agree to a preorder without using a multisig escrow or alike just to prevent the current situation.

Thank you for the response. That might have came off a little harsher than I intended it to, but as a Bitcoin consultant I have lost my patience for these snake-oil salesman coming through town. I understand that you can only speak from your own experience and can't buy everything out there, but as you are well-known in the community your voice carries more weight than say, cedividad, (no offense intended cedividad). I respect that you didn't use your moderator powers as you could have and instead started a separate thread, which I think is commendable, but as I said your voice carries weight and it made the rounds of the internet I frequent VERY quickly.

As an aside, maybe we should have a sort of Bitcoin Miner Foundation, or something of the sort in order to give more of a voice and power to miners in some way. They can be funded by miners to buy miners and then do a whole consumer report of the whole situation. This would at least provide more transparency and accountability for our side of things. It might be a dumb idea or brought up before, but it's one I've kicked around for a bit.

Thank you for calling out Hashfast and relaying your personal experience.

Are you saying you want to create a miners union? 

[Bobsurplus]

Sorry about your loss dude. I lost around 30K on BFL so I feel your pain.

[dhenson]

Are you saying you want to create a miners union? 

Why would you create a new account just to ask this?

[SolarSilver]

Unfortunately, for some reason Hashfast does not want you to see this vital information about the integrity of their operations and the realities of their product non-delivery— so they deleted my post.  

They also deleted some of my posts in the past so I'll just repost them here if you don't mind:

The chip is running at 750GH/s.  That's a world record!  Having a chip that runs 50% faster than the nearest competitor is a big deal, especially given the rapidly rising rate of mining difficulty.

Who cares about your stupid world record. Are you 7 years old or what?

The only important thing for a customer who wants to buy mining equipment is by what date you can deliver the equipment, at what cost and at what power consumption

For example the HashFast BabyJet was very competitive IF it would have been delivered on time early November 2013. But by shipping your  flagship Golden Nonce 3 months late,

http://visionman-btc.com/blogs/news/11274809-hashfast-now-offering-the-long-pole-and-the-short-end-of-the-stick

it means it's completely obsolete, even compared to near competitors who did ship inferior equipment, slower, higher power consumption but ON TIME.

If you don't understand any of these facts, why are you trolling for HashFast because even you make them look worse than they are.

Shouldn't you be in the back office trying to fix or printer or so?

As a Batch #1 HashFast customer (product delivered 3 months late, 1/4 defective), an Upgrade customer (not delivered at all, now 4 months late), a Batch #2 Sierra customer (not delivered at all, now 4 months late), a Batch #1 MPP customer (not delivered at all, now useless), I can only point out to anybody considering to even order future equipment from HashFast: Don't. Past performance has proven HashFast sells overpriced products that don't reach their promised performance and in general, the equipment is delivered so late (or not at all) that it's impossible to make any money of your initial investment back.

Please don't order from HashFast, you'll regret them

Just read the stupid drivel of their Community Liaison...

Spend your money on a company that has an actual working product, where customers don't need to prefund its development and debug/co-develop  broken firmware. And that has product on stock, not a 3 months lead time which will go over deadline, rendering the product useless.

[smoothie]

Lessons to learn:

1. Never pre-order ASIC mining hardware.

2. Never store funds on an exchange unless you are converting immediately and withdrawing.

3. Backup your wallet.dat and encrypt that baby.

Pretty simple. I may have missed one or two fundamental lessons. But these 3 should sum it up for every noob and pioneer.

[firejuan]

That is what I have learned from my very short time around these forums.

Lessons to learn:

1. Never pre-order ASIC mining hardware.

2. Never store funds on an exchange unless you are converting immediately and withdrawing.

3. Backup your wallet.dat and encrypt that baby.

Pretty simple. I may have missed one or two fundamental lessons. But these 3 should sum it up for every noob and pioneer.

[Bicknellski]

So I'm just wondering, is gmaxwell going to start calling out all of the overpromising/underdelivering, cough BFL cough, hardware companies or just the one's he has money invested in and ignore the one's who have invested money in advertising here. Because there are/have been a lot of them out there and I haven't seen this kind of response until now.

Regardless, this isn't all that surprising after my initial meetings with their team before they went public. Something was just off and then I found out they claimed that someone who is actually financially backing another company financed their operations. The dog and pony show was awesome, but when it came down to it, Lil Sebastian was/is late to the party still.

+1 Here here.

We need association or guild of reputable miner fabricators and developers. Here was my post for a guild.


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=282030.0

[itod]

I'm currently looking for whomever owns hashfastscam.org (or similar domains) and I'm also interested in getting in contact with other hashfast customers in the SF bay area.

I think user Cedivad is running http://hashfast.org/List_of_Lies, PM him to see if he is behind that one too:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=63794

[raskul]

We need association or guild of reputable miner fabricators and developers.

i'd rather solo mine with 1gh/s.
JUST NO.