BTCjam - Any Thoughts or Experiances

[Devon1]

Diversification is really a key thing with us, and as the commentator mentioned above never invest more than you can handle. You'll continue to see a lot of changes with us going forward, we are getting a lot tougher on fraud and bringing quality borrowers to the platform. If you want to get started throw a tiny amount in 0.1 and invest 0.001 if you wanted across numerous loans. This will give you a good feel for investing on the site and get you familiar with borrowers.

Diversification only ensures that when you get scammed, you have lost too little to go after it.   It is death by 10000 cuts.

I'm actually slowly getting out of BTCjam with a profit, but the only reason I have a profit is I stopped diversifying.   Instead I poured more BTC in the few people that didn't scam and had a reasonable story.   That worked, but getting that list of good borrowers was an expensive horrible experience.  

The upshot is you can make money there, but you have to really look out for yourself.   Personally I don't think the advice from the site is in investor's best interest, you need to think for yourself.    

Very interesting point, and it is good to hear that someone is profitable as I see some horror stories online and some great reviews, but not many unbiased neutral ones.  I think more people complain online than post positive occurances, so it is nice to read your post with a neutral point of view (not a hater and not a shill) which is rare!

I know investors with good histories can default, but do you think some kind of pool of investors sharing experiences and good borrowers could help?  Of course this would be kept within the group so I cannot see it violating TOS in anyway, but I could see just like people share stock tips and such, that a group of investors that stuck together could be useful to each other.

I based my thoughts off of my own common sense as far as thinking diversification would help, but I can see where your point about picking the right ones and not stretching out too much could be successful, so very interesting points.

[dyask]

Diversification is really a key thing with us, and as the commentator mentioned above never invest more than you can handle. You'll continue to see a lot of changes with us going forward, we are getting a lot tougher on fraud and bringing quality borrowers to the platform. If you want to get started throw a tiny amount in 0.1 and invest 0.001 if you wanted across numerous loans. This will give you a good feel for investing on the site and get you familiar with borrowers.

Diversification only ensures that when you get scammed, you have lost too little to go after it.   It is death by 10000 cuts.

I'm actually slowly getting out of BTCjam with a profit, but the only reason I have a profit is I stopped diversifying.   Instead I poured more BTC in the few people that didn't scam and had a reasonable story.   That worked, but getting that list of good borrowers was an expensive horrible experience.  

The upshot is you can make money there, but you have to really look out for yourself.   Personally I don't think the advice from the site is in investor's best interest, you need to think for yourself.    

Very interesting point, and it is good to hear that someone is profitable as I see some horror stories online and some great reviews, but not many unbiased neutral ones.  I think more people complain online than post positive occurances, so it is nice to read your post with a neutral point of view (not a hater and not a shill) which is rare!

I know investors with good histories can default, but do you think some kind of pool of investors sharing experiences and good borrowers could help?  Of course this would be kept within the group so I cannot see it violating TOS in anyway, but I could see just like people share stock tips and such, that a group of investors that stuck together could be useful to each other.

I based my thoughts off of my own common sense as far as thinking diversification would help, but I can see where your point about picking the right ones and not stretching out too much could be successful, so very interesting points.

Thanks for the kind words.   

I don't have a problem with sharing the borrowers that have been good.   Part of the issue at BTCjam is that if you are investor you aren't allowed to give feedback on the borrowers unless you go through the same identifying steps as borrows.   I guess that is to prevent fake investors from giving false feedback, but I think that once some has loaned out more than one BTC they should be able to give feedback.   Investors really don't need to be cleared if they are investing in loans.   

As for good borrowers: TechGeeks,  Alex077, Detz where the 3 big ones that pulled me back to profit.   There were many others that paid, sometimes a little late but paid.   The main reason I stopped loaning though is all the loans went to once a month payments.   Personally I don't like that since we have so little visibility into the borrowers.   Since TechGeeks was very interactive and seem to be answering pretty honesty, I pretty much put all my free BTC at the site whenever he had a loan.   That worked really well.     

I did put small amounts into new borrowers too and that has mostly been okay probably because I became very picky.   

[seVell]

I also invest in a site called funding circle which, when someone defaults, has a part of their organisation which chases debt on the lenders behalf.  I have never had a problem with the latter.

I would love to invest in people via BTCJAM again, but as there is no comeback on people who do not pay....I can`t see its recommended.

I think this is mandatory! You mean that btcjam does not chase the defaulter in any way? It passes it along to investors?

[Vod]

I think this is mandatory! You mean that btcjam does not chase the defaulter in any way? It passes it along to investors?

Correct - and most users walk away rather than go to court for what is (usually) a small amount.  BTCJam doesn't care - they get their cut up front.

In Canada, it's actually very easy to collect on a debt certificate.  Just simply file it in court and you get your money - the defendant has no chance to provide a defense because he/she has already lost. 

I started up a website called coindebt.ca and even then I couldn't find enough interested people to make it work.

That's why you always need collateral.

[vulgartrendkill]

I think this is mandatory! You mean that btcjam does not chase the defaulter in any way? It passes it along to investors?

Correct - and most users walk away rather than go to court for what is (usually) a small amount.  BTCJam doesn't care - they get their cut up front.

In Canada, it's actually very easy to collect on a debt certificate.  Just simply file it in court and you get your money - the defendant has no chance to provide a defense because he/she has already lost. 

I started up a website called coindebt.ca and even then I couldn't find enough interested people to make it work.

That's why you always need collateral.

Of course, by its very nature; BTCJAM is global meaning that jurisdictional and legal difference between countries makes collection of debt incredibly difficult, not to mention costly.

As said before, BTCJAM is an awesome idea but unfortunately it is a scam magnet.

[dyask]

I think this is mandatory! You mean that btcjam does not chase the defaulter in any way? It passes it along to investors?

Correct - and most users walk away rather than go to court for what is (usually) a small amount.  BTCJam doesn't care - they get their cut up front.

In Canada, it's actually very easy to collect on a debt certificate.  Just simply file it in court and you get your money - the defendant has no chance to provide a defense because he/she has already lost.  

I started up a website called coindebt.ca and even then I couldn't find enough interested people to make it work.

That's why you always need collateral.

Of course, by its very nature; BTCJAM is global meaning that jurisdictional and legal difference between countries makes collection of debt incredibly difficult, not to mention costly.

As said before, BTCJAM is an awesome idea but unfortunately it is a scam magnet.

So BTCjam just pushes the global jurisdictional problems onto the investors.  That is really their business model, push the risks and problems on to the investors and then post nonsense guides about how one can avoid the risks or collect the small amounts owned to them by a defaulter. (Assuming the investor diversified as the site recommends.)   If they would at least be honest about what they are doing it wouldn't be so bad.  

You are totally correct that the site is a scam magnet.

[Joe04]

You'll continue to see a lot of changes with us going forward, we are getting a lot tougher on fraud and bringing quality borrowers to the platform.

Hi

When do you plan to begin to take fees from repaid loan amount? This is tough

On what date we can expect your partnership with global collection agencies like Atradius Collections? This is obvious next thing to do

[seVell]

Of course, by its very nature; BTCJAM is global meaning that jurisdictional and legal difference between countries makes collection of debt incredibly difficult, not to mention costly.

They should only lend btc to people living where they have experience collecting. And even that way they would have very busy days.

As it is it's really risky to put some funds there.

[BTCJamSupport]

I think this is mandatory! You mean that btcjam does not chase the defaulter in any way? It passes it along to investors?

Correct - and most users walk away rather than go to court for what is (usually) a small amount.  BTCJam doesn't care - they get their cut up front.

In Canada, it's actually very easy to collect on a debt certificate.  Just simply file it in court and you get your money - the defendant has no chance to provide a defense because he/she has already lost.  

I started up a website called coindebt.ca and even then I couldn't find enough interested people to make it work.

That's why you always need collateral.

Of course, by its very nature; BTCJAM is global meaning that jurisdictional and legal difference between countries makes collection of debt incredibly difficult, not to mention costly.

As said before, BTCJAM is an awesome idea but unfortunately it is a scam magnet.

So BTCjam just pushes the global jurisdictional problems onto the investors.  That is really their business model, push the risks and problems on to the investors and then post nonsense guides about how one can avoid the risks or collect the small amounts owned to them by a defaulter. (Assuming the investor diversified as the site recommends.)   If they would at least be honest about what they are doing it wouldn't be so bad.  

You are totally correct that the site is a scam magnet.

There are many legal hurdles around what you are talking about. If it was as easy as you guys described don't you think there would be many companies doing this? Per your comment, we actually make our entire operation very clear in the terms, investor/borrower agreement, FAQ and so on. We are not stating that we do these things and don't follow through. There are numerous legal hurdles that we'd need to accomplish to provide these services you ask for. We of course want to do many of them, but it's very hard accomplishment capital wise.

[BTCJamSupport]

You'll continue to see a lot of changes with us going forward, we are getting a lot tougher on fraud and bringing quality borrowers to the platform.

Hi

When do you plan to begin to take fees from repaid loan amount? This is tough

On what date we can expect your partnership with global collection agencies like Atradius Collections? This is obvious next thing to do

We don't have plans for that right now. We are thinking about it. There are numerous things we have in the pipeline to begin strengthening ties to borrowers.

[Sourgummies]

When did this thread become another BTCJam thread? If they already have one thread for answering questions,it seems a bit heavy handed to come in and hijack this one as well.

[dyask]

I think this is mandatory! You mean that btcjam does not chase the defaulter in any way? It passes it along to investors?

Correct - and most users walk away rather than go to court for what is (usually) a small amount.  BTCJam doesn't care - they get their cut up front.

In Canada, it's actually very easy to collect on a debt certificate.  Just simply file it in court and you get your money - the defendant has no chance to provide a defense because he/she has already lost.  

I started up a website called coindebt.ca and even then I couldn't find enough interested people to make it work.

That's why you always need collateral.

Of course, by its very nature; BTCJAM is global meaning that jurisdictional and legal difference between countries makes collection of debt incredibly difficult, not to mention costly.

As said before, BTCJAM is an awesome idea but unfortunately it is a scam magnet.

So BTCjam just pushes the global jurisdictional problems onto the investors.  That is really their business model, push the risks and problems on to the investors and then post nonsense guides about how one can avoid the risks or collect the small amounts owned to them by a defaulter. (Assuming the investor diversified as the site recommends.)   If they would at least be honest about what they are doing it wouldn't be so bad.  

You are totally correct that the site is a scam magnet.

There are many legal hurdles around what you are talking about. If it was as easy as you guys described don't you think there would be many companies doing this? Per your comment, we actually make our entire operation very clear in the terms, investor/borrower agreement, FAQ and so on. We are not stating that we do these things and don't follow through. There are numerous legal hurdles that we'd need to accomplish to provide these services you ask for. We of course want to do many of them, but it's very hard accomplishment capital wise.

BTCjam posts advise that if investors follow ensures they won't be in a position to gain by going after the scammers.    Instead BTCjam should just come clean and post that when someone scams BTCjam isn't going to help and there won't be anything people can do to actually collect their money other than to beg the scammer to give it back to them!    The BTCjam arbitration awards are basically a joke and most likely don't have valid information about the lender in them either.   You basically want the investors to do all the work. 

BTCjam even makes it very hard for investors to even provide feedback!   Why should an investor have to have give his ID information to you before they can provide feedback on borrowers that they have loaned BTC too?   BTCjam actually ends up being supportive of scammer and biased against the investor.    That may not be the intent but that is how it works out.   It shouldn't be so hard to make a profit by loaning bitcoin.

There is a very simple fix for your business.   Put BTCjam in the same position as the investors.   Don't collect an upfront fee, collect part of the fee from every payment.   If that was done I'm sure all the problems would be fixed is short order.     

[sionsandman]

More evidence that they are actually working and trying to make BTCJam a better place for investors.

They blocked more scam accounts like:

https://btcjam.com/listings/44124-fast-coin-traiding?utm_medium=email&utm_source=transactional_email&utm_campaign=2015-07_payment_received

(This guy is also a member in this forum so don't forget to leave negative trust. existenz55)

https://btcjam.com/listings/46747-investimento-cloud-?utm_medium=email&utm_source=transactional_email&utm_campaign=2015-07_payment_received

https://btcjam.com/listings/47335

and his buddy/other account:

https://btcjam.com/listings/45475

https://btcjam.com/listings/45601

https://btcjam.com/listings/45624

https://btcjam.com/listings/46157

https://btcjam.com/listings/44429

https://btcjam.com/listings/44953

https://btcjam.com/listings/44746

https://btcjam.com/listings/44712

and they made the payments including interest for all these scams.

This means they are taking their responsability and not letting investors on their own.

More important will be to see what they do about big US scammers that must be easy to identify and take to court like these guys:

Oppenheimer89

This guy has 2 loans with a total over 50 BTC

https://btcjam.com/listings/45490-stock-trading-capital and https://btcjam.com/listings/46587-bitcoin-based-localbitcoins-com-trading

His localbitcoins profile: https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/oppenheimer89/

and this guy that already was sent to arbitration:

therealmaxwell

https://btcjam.com/listings/41307

I already received his details and since he's a fucking scammer I'll post here:

Debtor's name, last known address, and other information is:

 Paul Maxwell

 6016 Allington Ct

 Winston Salem, NC 27104

 maxggw@gmail.com

 https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMaxwell

 Phone: (617) 784-0064

 Driver's License 11MLP84021

I won't chase this fucker for $20 but if you live next door don't forget to say hi for me!

 
 

[BTCJamSupport]

I think this is mandatory! You mean that btcjam does not chase the defaulter in any way? It passes it along to investors?

Correct - and most users walk away rather than go to court for what is (usually) a small amount.  BTCJam doesn't care - they get their cut up front.

In Canada, it's actually very easy to collect on a debt certificate.  Just simply file it in court and you get your money - the defendant has no chance to provide a defense because he/she has already lost.  

I started up a website called coindebt.ca and even then I couldn't find enough interested people to make it work.

That's why you always need collateral.

Of course, by its very nature; BTCJAM is global meaning that jurisdictional and legal difference between countries makes collection of debt incredibly difficult, not to mention costly.

As said before, BTCJAM is an awesome idea but unfortunately it is a scam magnet.

So BTCjam just pushes the global jurisdictional problems onto the investors.  That is really their business model, push the risks and problems on to the investors and then post nonsense guides about how one can avoid the risks or collect the small amounts owned to them by a defaulter. (Assuming the investor diversified as the site recommends.)   If they would at least be honest about what they are doing it wouldn't be so bad.  

You are totally correct that the site is a scam magnet.

There are many legal hurdles around what you are talking about. If it was as easy as you guys described don't you think there would be many companies doing this? Per your comment, we actually make our entire operation very clear in the terms, investor/borrower agreement, FAQ and so on. We are not stating that we do these things and don't follow through. There are numerous legal hurdles that we'd need to accomplish to provide these services you ask for. We of course want to do many of them, but it's very hard accomplishment capital wise.

BTCjam posts advise that if investors follow ensures they won't be in a position to gain by going after the scammers.    Instead BTCjam should just come clean and post that when someone scams BTCjam isn't going to help and there won't be anything people can do to actually collect their money other than to beg the scammer to give it back to them!    The BTCjam arbitration awards are basically a joke and most likely don't have valid information about the lender in them either.   You basically want the investors to do all the work. 

BTCjam even makes it very hard for investors to even provide feedback!   Why should an investor have to have give his ID information to you before they can provide feedback on borrowers that they have loaned BTC too?   BTCjam actually ends up being supportive of scammer and biased against the investor.    That may not be the intent but that is how it works out.   It shouldn't be so hard to make a profit by loaning bitcoin.

There is a very simple fix for your business.   Put BTCjam in the same position as the investors.   Don't collect an upfront fee, collect part of the fee from every payment.   If that was done I'm sure all the problems would be fixed is short order.     

Rating people anon is a great way to have a reputation system manipulated. Random ratings from themselves - this is why we do that.

Many people have had success with arbitration. We are upfront about our model and how this is done as I mentioned before.

I think we agree to disagree on the last point, I've mentioned numerous times in this thread why we feel differently.

[BTCJamSupport]

More evidence that they are actually working and trying to make BTCJam a better place for investors.

They blocked more scam accounts like:

https://btcjam.com/listings/44124-fast-coin-traiding?utm_medium=email&utm_source=transactional_email&utm_campaign=2015-07_payment_received

(This guy is also a member in this forum so don't forget to leave negative trust. existenz55)

https://btcjam.com/listings/46747-investimento-cloud-?utm_medium=email&utm_source=transactional_email&utm_campaign=2015-07_payment_received

https://btcjam.com/listings/47335

and his buddy/other account:

https://btcjam.com/listings/45475

https://btcjam.com/listings/45601

https://btcjam.com/listings/45624

https://btcjam.com/listings/46157

https://btcjam.com/listings/44429

https://btcjam.com/listings/44953

https://btcjam.com/listings/44746

https://btcjam.com/listings/44712

and they made the payments including interest for all these scams.

This means they are taking their responsability and not letting investors on their own.

More important will be to see what they do about big US scammers that must be easy to identify and take to court like these guys:

Oppenheimer89

This guy has 2 loans with a total over 50 BTC

https://btcjam.com/listings/45490-stock-trading-capital and https://btcjam.com/listings/46587-bitcoin-based-localbitcoins-com-trading

His localbitcoins profile: https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/oppenheimer89/

and this guy that already was sent to arbitration:

therealmaxwell

https://btcjam.com/listings/41307

I already received his details and since he's a fucking scammer I'll post here:

Debtor's name, last known address, and other information is:

 Paul Maxwell

 6016 Allington Ct

 Winston Salem, NC 27104

 maxggw@gmail.com

 https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMaxwell

 Phone: (617) 784-0064

 Driver's License 11MLP84021

I won't chase this fucker for $20 but if you live next door don't forget to say hi for me!

 
 

We're working hard to make the marketplace better. Thanks for sharing your input here. Time will tell how these things work out but we are trying incredibly hard to bring higher quality borrowers to the platform while being able to provide them with great rates. It's very tough at times, but I think the coming months we'll be able to provide more details backed with data about all of this.

[seVell]

Rating people anon is a great way to have a reputation system manipulated. Random ratings from themselves - this is why we do that.

I agree 100%.

More evidence that they are actually working and trying to make BTCJam a better place for investors.


(...)

More important will be to see what they do about big US scammers that must be easy to identify and take to court like these guys:

Oppenheimer89

This guy has 2 loans with a total over 50 BTC

https://btcjam.com/listings/45490-stock-trading-capital and https://btcjam.com/listings/46587-bitcoin-based-localbitcoins-com-trading

His localbitcoins profile: https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/oppenheimer89/

and this guy that already was sent to arbitration:

therealmaxwell

https://btcjam.com/listings/41307

I already received his details and since he's a fucking scammer I'll post here:

Debtor's name, last known address, and other information is:

 Paul Maxwell

 6016 Allington Ct

 Winston Salem, NC 27104

 maxggw@gmail.com

 https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMaxwell

 Phone: (617) 784-0064

 Driver's License 11MLP84021

I won't chase this fucker for $20 but if you live next door don't forget to say hi for me!

 
 

Can you please comment on these US high profile scammers?

If they are in US they are very easy for you to catch if you want!

This is crucial for a wannabe investor.

[dyask]

Rating people anon is a great way to have a reputation system manipulated. Random ratings from themselves - this is why we do that.

Well as someone that invested multiple BTC at your site I can say I disagree.   I could see not letting someone give feedback if they just created an account, but after they have invested more than a BTC in multiple loans?   You logic makes no sense.    I could easy give false ID and you would let me give feedback.   

Many people have had success with arbitration. We are upfront about our model and how this is done as I mentioned before.

Really?  I've never heard anyone that has had success with it.   Where are these success stories?

I think we agree to disagree on the last point, I've mentioned numerous times in this thread why we feel differently.

Of coarse you don't want to put yourself in the same place as investors, because you know you would lose.  Your business model takes upfront fees and leaves the investors to fend for themselves.   That is the key problem with BTCjam.    The business model pushes all the risk onto the investors.   That is what you should be putting in your FAQ.

[dyask]

More evidence that they are actually working and trying to make BTCJam a better place for investors.

They blocked more scam accounts like:

https://btcjam.com/listings/44124-fast-coin-traiding?utm_medium=email&utm_source=transactional_email&utm_campaign=2015-07_payment_received

(This guy is also a member in this forum so don't forget to leave negative trust. existenz55)

https://btcjam.com/listings/46747-investimento-cloud-?utm_medium=email&utm_source=transactional_email&utm_campaign=2015-07_payment_received

https://btcjam.com/listings/47335

and his buddy/other account:

https://btcjam.com/listings/45475

https://btcjam.com/listings/45601

https://btcjam.com/listings/45624

https://btcjam.com/listings/46157

https://btcjam.com/listings/44429

https://btcjam.com/listings/44953

https://btcjam.com/listings/44746

https://btcjam.com/listings/44712

and they made the payments including interest for all these scams.

This means they are taking their responsability and not letting investors on their own.

Who made the payments?   Are you claiming the BTCjam made the payments?   It looks like some of the people came back and paid off their loans.  

If BTCjam is actually paying off bad loans that would make a huge difference. 

[lumeire]

Does anyone know of "Funding Circle" like lending company that accepts bitcoins and anonymous investors?

I've been with jam and BLC and honestly, it sucks. Way too many defaulters.

[sionsandman]

Who made the payments?   Are you claiming the BTCjam made the payments?   It looks like some of the people came back and paid off their loans.  

If BTCjam is actually paying off bad loans that would make a huge difference. 

I'm not sure who made the payments.

But there's not much room to imagination here.

BTCJamSupport can confirm or deny if BTCJam made the payments or not.

But if they didn't then who did? The scammers? The scammers came back to pay and get the accounts blocked?

It seems just fair that they use a part of their profits to pay for obvious scams that they failed to prevent in the first place.


But more important than these small time scammers I wait for what BTCJam will do about high profile scammers that were top rated according to their system.

If top rated borrowers like these can default without any consequence BTCJam lose all credibility!

(...)

More important will be to see what they do about big US scammers that must be easy to identify and take to court like these guys:

Oppenheimer89

This guy has 2 loans with a total over 50 BTC

https://btcjam.com/listings/45490-stock-trading-capital and https://btcjam.com/listings/46587-bitcoin-based-localbitcoins-com-trading

His localbitcoins profile: https://localbitcoins.com/accounts/profile/oppenheimer89/

and this guy that already was sent to arbitration:

therealmaxwell

https://btcjam.com/listings/41307

I already received his details and since he's a fucking scammer I'll post here:

Debtor's name, last known address, and other information is:

 Paul Maxwell

 6016 Allington Ct

 Winston Salem, NC 27104

 maxggw@gmail.com

 https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMaxwell

 Phone: (617) 784-0064

 Driver's License 11MLP84021

I won't chase this fucker for $20 but if you live next door don't forget to say hi for me!