How stable will bitcoin be?

[fergalish]

So, supposing bitcoin, or some variant, manages to completely replace the world's currencies.  This will certainly make some governments unstable, some might well collapse - see http://freedomainradio.com/board/forums/t/19983.aspx

But, there's a big problem here, bitcoin requires electricity and global internet to function well, and these kinds of services probably won't be so stable without working government.

So... bitcoin substitutes currency, government is destabilized, society descends (or ascends?) into anarcy, electricity & internet become unstable, society descends into the next dark age.  Has anyone thought about that?

[1713885146]

1713885146

[xc]

I recommend Murray Rothbard's For a New Liberty, a full overview of how an anarcho-capitalist society would work.
http://mises.org/rothbard/newlibertywhole.asp

It's all in there and available for free (mp3 audio book, full text). 

After that you might try Konkin's New Libertarian Manifesto on Agorism.
http://www.agorism.info/NewLibertarianManifesto.pdf (Full text)
http://www.nostate.com/2111/new-libertarian-manifesto-audio-mp3-podcast/ (Audio book)

Agorism is more the tactical and strategic means of actually getting to an anarcho-capitalist society.

XC

[BitcoinFX]

So, supposing bitcoin, or some variant, manages to completely replace the world's currencies.  This will certainly make some governments unstable, some might well collapse - see http://freedomainradio.com/board/forums/t/19983.aspx

But, there's a big problem here, bitcoin requires electricity and global internet to function well, and these kinds of services probably won't be so stable without working government.

So... bitcoin substitutes currency, government is destabilized, society descends (or ascends?) into anarcy, electricity & internet become unstable, society descends into the next dark age.  Has anyone thought about that?

Welcome fergalish

Bitcoins will 'never' replace other 'world currencies'. That's a bit like suggesting that PayPal will replace the USD or that Gold will replace Oil or that credit cards will replace paper money. They are just not the same thing, however which ever way you look at it they all help the world go around. Bitcoins are just another currency.

Yes Bitcoin requires electricity and the internet to function. However, this hopefully doesn't rely only on Governments, you are ignoring Capitalism, the 'Corporation' and the free market. Are you suggesting that Bitcoin runs on the cypher net ?  

Anarchy ? That's wishful thinking ! Such is the price of progress... lol

[BitcoinFX]

I recommend Murray Rothbard's For a New Liberty, a full overview of how an anarcho-capitalist society would work.
http://mises.org/rothbard/newlibertywhole.asp

It's all in there and available for free (mp3 audio book, full text). 

After that you might try Konkin's New Libertarian Manifesto on Agorism.
http://www.agorism.info/NewLibertarianManifesto.pdf (Full text)
http://www.nostate.com/2111/new-libertarian-manifesto-audio-mp3-podcast/ (Audio book)

Agorism is more the tactical and strategic means of actually getting to an anarcho-capitalist society.

XC

Welcome XC

Interesting links.

Thanks.

[I-am-not-anonymous]

>>But, there's a big problem here, bitcoin requires electricity and global internet to function well, and these kinds of services probably won't be so stable without working government

False premise.

This e-book by David Friedman (son of Milton Friedman) provides the following:

1. Real world examples of how private enterprise has successfully provided the same services as a government i.e. courts, police, utilities, etc.

2. A precise, logic-based refutation of the idea that anarchy would simply lead to the strongest criminal thugs forming a new government

3. A reduction of many common arguments for the governments existence to absurdity.

It can be found here: http://lectormatic.freeiz.com/machoffreedom/Friedman,_David_-_The_Machinery_of_Freedom.html

[fergalish]

Thanks for the links, I'm reading some of them.  But, let me just say what I'm thinking.  First of all, this thread is considering reasonably improbable long-term outcomes to this bitcoin experiment.  I say reasonably improbable because there will be powerful governments that will do their utmost to prevent changes to the economic status quo.  Just look at Iraq (http://www.rense.com/general34/realre.htm).  So I'm gonna put myself in the shoes of big brother, and here's what I'd do.

I'd switch of the internet - it would cause big problems for me, but perhaps less than bitcoin (or whatever).
I'd buy as many bitcoins as possible - not to destroy them, but to control as much of the underground economy as possible, obviously, I can just print more $crap to buy them with.
Usual scare tactics ("Anarchists seek to destroy economy" etc headlines).
Men in black to seek you out and "convince" you of the error or your ways.


But then, that's not the real problem as I see it.  Democracy is not such a stable form of government.  Any type of regulation always calls for more regulation right?  Eventually it turns into socialism/authoritarian.  Even now, western democracy is turning into a corporate aristocracy.  But, you know what, that's more stable to perturbation.  If a libertarian comes to an authoritarian state, he just has to bend over 'cos there's nothing he can do.

But, if an authoritarian comes to a libertarian state, well he can do lots.  He just needs to gain some power at the start, and he can subjugate others to his will.  And then... authoritarian micro-states!  You can't get rid of a thug unless you become one, and then suddenly we're all thugs and life is reduced to Hobbes' "brutish existence".

What I mean is, libertarianism works fine as long as *everyone* is a libertarian. A minority of authoritarians will destroy it. On the contrary, authoritarianism works fine, it can even be *ruled* by a minority.

[I-am-not-anonymous]

Thanks for the links, I'm reading some of them.  But, let me just say what I'm thinking.  First of all, this thread is considering reasonably improbable long-term outcomes to this bitcoin experiment.  I say reasonably improbable because there will be powerful governments that will do their utmost to prevent changes to the economic status quo.  Just look at Iraq (http://www.rense.com/general34/realre.htm).  So I'm gonna put myself in the shoes of big brother, and here's what I'd do.

You use "I" the pronoun for a single individual to refer "the government" a noun that represents representatives from 50 different states, numerous interacting, and sometimes competing, regulatory agencies and independent bodies.  I know some people believe that the entire government moves with a single will, controlled by a single individual or a shadowy cabal, but I have not seen convincing evidence for this.  Instead I see the tyrannies and injustices of governments as natural products of our current democratic system and way of living.  I also believe many tyrannies and injustices do not spawn from malicious intent and that the people who support or implement them are merely misguided, not evil.  This is why I beleive the internet will not be shut down by the government, even if it means they have to start begging for money instead of taking it by force (the government can be very good at begging).   

It is this belief that tyranny is a natural product of certain "sociological algorithms" that leads me to support bitcoin and other, what i guess could be called "agorist" solutions.  Solutions that don't try to fight the system or even change it (these rarely work out), but instead, try to change a few of the inputs to the "sociological algorithm" and thus, change the output. 

What I mean is, libertarianism works fine as long as *everyone* is a libertarian. A minority of authoritarians will destroy it. On the contrary, authoritarianism works fine, it can even be *ruled* by a minority.

Anyone with a little imagination can dream up a radical new structure for society, anarcho-capitalist or otherwise. The question is, will it work? Most people, when they hear my description of anarcho-capitalism for the first time, immediately explain to me two or three reasons why it won't. Most of their arguments can be reduced to two: The system will be at the mercy of the mafia, which can establish its own 'protection agency' or take over existing ones and convert them into protection rackets. Or else the protection agencies will realize that theft is more profitable than business, get together, and become a government. Read the rest...

[Multipulty]

in the past few years there have been unprecedented stability in bitcoin as a financial instrument. It has been more stable than ever before, which has increased more trust in the currency. well large price increases have always been preceded by a stable period and now we’ve experienced the most stable period so far.

[Shenzou]

in the past few months the bitcoin's price was very stable and i think it is going to stay stable for quite some time which is good because this will make investors trust this currency more and we might see it becoming used everywhere on the internet , it is true that we can't replace real money with bitcoin because if there is no internet there is no bitcoin but as long it exist as long we will see bitcoin

[lol3c]

There are always ways to run your own Internet and electric system so don't worry about that. If there is the Dark Age, experts, Anonymous hacker team and other people will teach us how to survive after this disaster. However, it can barely happen. We are living in the technological and globalization world which countries adapt with any kind of situation. Cryptocurrencies can not destroy the whole system, it can only help to build the better place to live

[MingLee]

Bitcoin is a great currency that ensures that your wealth with have mostly preserved value as long as the basic functions of the internet are operating and society hasn't collapsed completely. If society does collapse, you best have tangible goods with real value (seeds, tools, etc.) instead of Bitcoin, and next best is gold or silver.

It really depends on what could go wrong.

[xeqoRameshAxueamExaqana]

If bitcoin price stable is not good
because if bitcoin price stable you can't trading again, you can't to find profit from trading bitcoin

[deadsilent]

Actually bitcoin wont replace currencies because some problems of bitcoin is facing. First, it has no physicality. Second, you need electricity and internet to use it. Third, its unstable. The price can crash anytime. Bitcoin can be useful for investments. It wont replace any currency but it can be use as subtitute.

[Zadicar]

This thread is already 6 years now and it somehow bump again on this year which is like grave digging theres no need to activate such thread.
We can all witness now after 6 years of bitcoins existence and we could say that bitcoin isnt still stable after all these years because price do really tend to move because lots already of people do engage with it.

[Kevin77]

An end of this planet Earth's stability may be an end to bitcoin's too, till then I guess we need not to worry about electricity nor internet interruptions.

Also I am not ready to agree that governments go unstable / collapsed due to introduction of a new payment system, as long as governments are able to impose and collect taxes (not just on bitcoins), they will survive and rule.

[ikydesu]

This thread is already 6 years now and it somehow bump again on this year which is like grave digging theres no need to activate such thread.
We can all witness now after 6 years of bitcoins existence and we could say that bitcoin isnt still stable after all these years because price do really tend to move because lots already of people do engage with it.

This exactly true, there's no real stable currency, however in bitcoin price movement level, this year is the stable period which it's not really significant swing chart.

Anyway this is good for bitcoin at this stable level , it's provided if between buyer and seller is most equal. I have been predicted since I sell my coin and want to buy back at lower price, but it's become harder to predict.

[zikel]

I think that Bitcoin will never be stable. This is its specificity. He is not subject to the laws of economics. It is interesting for many investors, which means that its price will fluctuate always

[jaysabi]

>>But, there's a big problem here, bitcoin requires electricity and global internet to function well, and these kinds of services probably won't be so stable without working government

False premise.

This e-book by David Friedman (son of Milton Friedman) provides the following:

1. Real world examples of how private enterprise has successfully provided the same services as a government i.e. courts, police, utilities, etc.

2. A precise, logic-based refutation of the idea that anarchy would simply lead to the strongest criminal thugs forming a new government

3. A reduction of many common arguments for the governments existence to absurdity.

It can be found here: http://lectormatic.freeiz.com/machoffreedom/Friedman,_David_-_The_Machinery_of_Freedom.html

In regards to number 2, I don't find the argument convincing. We have too many real world examples of this for a logical argument to refute it. Look at areas where there is a weak government or weak rule of law. There are often factions that grow large enough to operate as a quasi-government and they are rarely fair or stable. Arbitrary law rules these organizations. (Drug cartels are a good example, ISIS, Farc, Yemeni warlords, Boko Harem, etc.) These are the groups that come to power in anarchistic settings.

[ubitcoin]

Yes the stability of bitcoin will be affected if is there is any interruption in Internet or in electricity. But we cannot expect a worldwide interruption. That is the reason bitcoin will have no problems on any circumstance.

There are countries which are having uninterrupted power supply for decades, one good example is Singapore.

[kryptqnick]

So, supposing bitcoin, or some variant, manages to completely replace the world's currencies.  This will certainly make some governments unstable, some might well collapse - see http://freedomainradio.com/board/forums/t/19983.aspx

But, there's a big problem here, bitcoin requires electricity and global internet to function well, and these kinds of services probably won't be so stable without working government.

So... bitcoin substitutes currency, government is destabilized, society descends (or ascends?) into anarcy, electricity & internet become unstable, society descends into the next dark age.  Has anyone thought about that?

I suppose if Bitcoin is to replace currencies, then governments are good with it (because they already found a way for people to pay taxes for using Bitcoin), people are already used to it, the governments are quite stable and thus electricity is stable as well and nothing bad happens. Even if some governments were unhappy, if they turn off the internet, many of their own technologies they need for CIA and stuff won't work and everybody will be too angry, so I think they would never do such a thing.