Shapeshift Membership

[TryNinja]

Can some asshole please create a non-register quick transfer exchange, that doesn't do things like changelly and shapeshift, and just be a good exchange, for once?

Well, they still need to go through a regular exchange (unless they have a LOT of liquidity). So I kinda see why they start asking for KYC after getting a bigger daily volume. At the end, the best solution is to use a DEX or just P2P.

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[gentlemand]

Why not use Binance? They don’t require KYC (at least for now and for < 2 BTC exchanges). It’s been some time since there was good no-register fast exchangers.

How long will non KYC last there? Especially if they fully settle in Malta. I can't see the Maltese government sitting idle while millions of people pile in with zero ID.

[pinkflower]

I'm afraid that sooner rather than later another Instant exchange such as Changelly is going to completely dominate the market.

I wouldn't trust Changelly with my clinkers, let alone any money.

Read the responses of their support on Reddit and tell me that sounds like a place KYC free - https://www.reddit.com/user/changelly_com

Yeah I heard many negative feedback about them too. What other services are there thats like Shapeshift and Changelly? This is the best for them to market themselves as the service that will never require KYC on their users lol.

Its also the best time to open a TOR darknet cryptocurrency converter.

[MAbtc]

"Membership" .... LOL.

I suppose this was inevitable. If a centralized service gets big enough, regulators come knocking. And then comes the KYC. Oh well, it was a good run. How's Changelly these days?

[illyiller]

Why not use Binance? They don’t require KYC (at least for now and for < 2 BTC exchanges). It’s been some time since there was good no-register fast exchangers.

How long will non KYC last there? Especially if they fully settle in Malta. I can't see the Maltese government sitting idle while millions of people pile in with zero ID.

Why not? I always figured them for a rubber stamp regulator. Not that I have much knowledge to draw on...... that was just my feeling from the early online gaming days.

[buwaytress]

"Membership" .... LOL.

I suppose this was inevitable. If a centralized service gets big enough, regulators come knocking. And then comes the KYC. Oh well, it was a good run. How's Changelly these days?

Probably couldn't be happier with the news. In the case of Shapeshift though, their CEO apparently has been for many years resistant to kyc needs and avid supporter of privacy, and since he's not said anything public, one can only assume he's done this move in the corporate interest of his company and employees. Tough but I think he just killed his business model. The very service itself was based on that concept. But I think I saw this coming once they stepped in and froze stolen funds (from some exchange hack in South Korea if I recall). Everyone and enforcement thought it was a good thing, but once the precedent had been set, there really was no going back

[vlom]

well, this is an other reason that a real DEX should be available. As soon as somebody launches a useful DEX they will get a lot of users. and the more users the more volume, the more users the more volume => success.

i liked shapeshifter to quickly exchange some fund. Funds that i dont want to transfer to an exchange....

[AdolfinWolf]

"Membership" .... LOL.

I suppose this was inevitable. If a centralized service gets big enough, regulators come knocking. And then comes the KYC. Oh well, it was a good run. How's Changelly these days?

Probably couldn't be happier with the news. In the case of Shapeshift though, their CEO apparently has been for many years resistant to kyc needs and avid supporter of privacy, and since he's not said anything public, one can only assume he's done this move in the corporate interest of his company and employees. Tough but I think he just killed his business model. The very service itself was based on that concept. But I think I saw this coming once they stepped in and froze stolen funds (from some exchange hack in South Korea if I recall). Everyone and enforcement thought it was a good thing, but once the precedent had been set, there really was no going back

I think that he did make some comments on twitter, and it really was giving off a feeling that he was definitely pressured into doing this. -- Either by Feds or investors in his company. It's a shame though, since Shapeshift is a pretty useful service.

When he's asked whether or not he's forced to implement it, his response is this.

Not appropriate to discuss on Twitter.

Sounds like someone is definitely forcing his hand. Whether it be law enforcement or his investors?

Nobody wants to scan an ID and send it to us. We know that... it's a horrible thing to force people to do.

Then why do it... 

[Mahanton]

Shapeshift Moves to Membership Model Requiring User Information!

I think crypto services are being forced to move to such models.

If you do like the service given  of Shapeshift and you don't care too much of your information then this wont really be a big issue for you but for those who do love anonymity will surely find another alternative.
This is somehow expected where services or crypto related businesses would really come to a point where government is already making some intervention and we are actually seeing on whats gradually happening nowadays.

[buwaytress]

I think that he did make some comments on twitter, and it really was giving off a feeling that he was definitely pressured into doing this. -- Either by Feds or investors in his company. It's a shame though, since Shapeshift is a pretty useful service.

When he's asked whether or not he's forced to implement it, his response is this.

Not appropriate to discuss on Twitter.

Sounds like someone is definitely forcing his hand. Whether it be law enforcement or his investors?

More likely the investors and employees - though the latter really is just sentiment and they could just be all replaced, just the news of them dumping the project could be more harmful than actually giving in to the business interests of investors and employees.

Then again, if none of the investors and/or employees can see how they've just committed business seppuku, what did they think they were doing in the past and how did they think crypto users preferred to do business?

well, this is an other reason that a real DEX should be available. As soon as somebody launches a useful DEX they will get a lot of users. and the more users the more volume, the more users the more volume => success.

i liked shapeshifter to quickly exchange some fund. Funds that i dont want to transfer to an exchange....

A real, cross platform, atomic swapping DEX. That is, indeed, the dream.

But in the meanwhile, a decentralised P2P platform might do the job just as well. Maybe with less speed, but with more protection (escrow).

[gentlemand]

Why not? I always figured them for a rubber stamp regulator. Not that I have much knowledge to draw on...... that was just my feeling from the early online gaming days.

2 BTC is a substantial amount of money, especially when multiplied over hundreds or thousands of fake accounts.

The EU is not exactly into the idea of unchecked finance and Malta is a tadpole in EU terms. They will be told to close the gaping holes that they permit and Malta will tell Binance  to comply or find a new home.

The options for anonymous money are shrinking constantly. Crypto won't be allowed to skip that.

[MAbtc]

Nobody wants to scan an ID and send it to us. We know that... it's a horrible thing to force people to do.

Then why do it... 

What would you do if FinCEN were threatening you with an enforcement action? That would probably mean millions of dollars in civil penalties. And it might be coordinated with the Justice Department, bringing criminal charges. Unlicensed money service business, money laundering.... these can carry long prison sentences. I bet that's floating around in the back of Erik's head as Shapeshift implements these changes.

[BitHodler]

What would you do if FinCEN were threatening you with an enforcement action? That would probably mean millions of dollars in civil penalties. And it might be coordinated with the Justice Department, bringing criminal charges. Unlicensed money service business, money laundering.... these can carry long prison sentences. I bet that's floating around in the back of Erik's head as Shapeshift implements these changes.

Erik is just about making money in the end, it's not a charity service he offers out of love for the crypto community. He'll do what's the best option for his business and in this case it's a measure forced upon them.

I do think less people will use their service due to all this, but I also think the group of hardcore Shapeshift users will stick with it regardless of how severe the implemented measures are.

If people are okay with handing their private information over to scummy ICOs for investment purposes, they will definitely not shy away from handing over the same private information to a reputable exchanging service.

[Financisto]

It seems that competitors are gonna get stronger considering that news...

Considering the current situation of instant exchanges, I guess flyp.me (there's no mandatory signup) is the natural place for everyone to move now...

I hope sooner than later decentralized exchanges are gonna disrupt that market...

[figmentofmyass]

I do think less people will use their service due to all this, but I also think the group of hardcore Shapeshift users will stick with it regardless of how severe the implemented measures are.

If people are okay with handing their private information over to scummy ICOs for investment purposes, they will definitely not shy away from handing over the same private information to a reputable exchanging service.

for sure. the same people that were willing to do KYC on bittrex and poloniex will do so on shapeshift. and a lot of people don't even think about it; they just fork over their documents when asked. i'm still amazed at how readily people give up their docs to fly-by-night ICOs pushing vaporware when identity theft is on the table. hell, some people do it just for the bounties. sad....

Considering the current situation of instant exchanges, I guess flyp.me (there's no mandatory signup) is the natural place for everyone to move now...

i definitely like the idea of no registration. i've never heard of this site, though. anybody used it?

[Freewallet]

Are you talking about https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9cqmm2/do_not_use_changelly_they_steal_monero/e5danwt/?context=3

That seems like exactly the same situation ChangeNow.io is in, the only difference here is that changelly is not getting flamed for it? Why is this not a big deal?

Among others things, yes. In other posts I seem to remember them saying they have awarded themselves the right to keep whatever money fails to 'pass' their KYC checks.

There are quite a few theories swirling around about Changelly being linked to Bytecoin, Freewallet and a few other places.

None of it inspires me to ever give it a try. At the very least they smell of selective scamming to me.

Our conscience is clean. Whoever reaches out to our support, gets a response. In addition, we were able to stop hacking and money laundering activities, whenever it was within our power.
Nonetheless, we believe that any crypto investor is free to choose any preferred wallet service.

[Financisto]

Considering the current situation of instant exchanges, I guess flyp.me (there's no mandatory signup) is the natural place for everyone to move now...

i definitely like the idea of no registration. i've never heard of this site, though. anybody used it?

Never heard a problem about it...

References:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1952077

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3208626

[Patatas]

I think crypto services are being forced to move to such models.

Not really. Services have their own rights, citizens have their own privacy rights and government can only impose limited restrictions unless a court order is issued which takes months of hearings. These exchanges are just doing it to make their process of dealing with customer complaints easier. They know people like to be anonymous. No court would take a consumers accusation seriously if they can't prove their identity. You can file a case that the exchange has stolen 100 BTC but there is no way they could prove the BTC belonged to them without a KYC.

[ChipMixer]

You can file a case that the exchange has stolen 100 BTC but there is no way they could prove the BTC belonged to them without a KYC.

You can prove BTC belong to you signing a message with your BTC address.
Exchange can prove owning their address signing a message with that BTC address.
You can prove depositing BTC to exchange address pointing transaction id on blockchain.

KYC does not prove anything. It is an image uploaded to one exchange then stolen and uploaded by somebody else to another exchange then stolen and uploaded by somebody else to another exchange.
Bitcoin is proof of ownership and change of ownership.

[gentlemand]

Not really. Services have their own rights, citizens have their own privacy rights and government can only impose limited restrictions unless a court order is issued which takes months of hearings. These exchanges are just doing it to make their process of dealing with customer complaints easier.

I don't buy that for a second. When someone can go to jail for selling a piffling amount of BTC on local bitcoins you can bet your botty all of these places are petrified of being locked up for a trillion years.

They all know what's in store for them if they eschew it. Any involvement with money these days is hideously toxic and dangerous for one's health and freedom.