BTC is near end, proof block 2

[dohh]

Like someone pointed out, Satoshi's initial motivations are pretty clear from the whitepaper and his initial posts. If in doubt, read the posts curated at this link.

May I please beg for some source criticism? You use Satoshi´s white paper to back up an argument, his motivations were all good?

Sorry but I think you did not get my point. I quoted in my reply part of the post where Satoshi tells what his motivations are. Just to be sure, I'll quote the sentence again.

It's time we had the same thing for money. With e-currency based on cryptographic proof, without the need to trust a third party middleman, money can be secure and transactions effortless.

Money that is free from third-party control. Is that not a good enough motivation according to you? For me and for those who actually care about the underlying ideals, this is a settled issue. Trying to implicate otherwise through rhetoric is just repetition of the same old, tiring agenda.

Thanks. I did understand. I just said, that I think its bullshit.

Idea is motivating, but so is hard disc rental (known Kairosplanet scam). Mathematically and logically decentralized blockchain cryptocurrency is quite impossible. I say "quite", because solution would be very uneffective. Now You argue, that BTC has done it already. It hasnt. I has told bubbles, bubbles, bubbles... BTC scalability issues are NOT SOLVABLE in this method. It is just not possible to pass ALL INFORMATION TO ALL PARTICIPANTS, when amount of both, information and participants is evergrowing exponentially.

BTC is a scam, illustrated with beautyful words of promising technologies. There will not be (working) lightning network. If it will, its just another level of scamming and it would probably require to deposit Your coins somewhere. And thats not decentralized again.

Telling You one more time: what BTC is meant to be doing, is impossible.

[sngwinner]

Having followed this thread, I just realized that you have a fixed mind and you didn't actually create this thread to invite fair arguments. It is better we all stick to what we individually believe in crypto. If you think Btc is not worth it, just exit and leave it for those who believe in this technology

[dohh]

Having followed this thread, I just realized that you have a fixed mind and you didn't actually create this thread to invite fair arguments. It is better we all stick to what we individually believe in crypto. If you think Btc is not worth it, just exit and leave it for those who believe in this technology

yea, everybody has his own opinion.

If You had an impression, my mind is fixed, thats not true. Just I have to be concrete as I am largely outnumbered here.

You guys keep telling me widely accepted version, of how things are. Im challenging it, because I dont think its true.

[stayeduptolate]

This topic will be probably be locked very soon and I have to repost it to CNC.
In my opinion BTC is a pyramid, a ponzi and a pump and dump scheme at the same time. Here is why:

1) BTC is a pyramid scheme for 2 reasons.

a) only way to generate new coins, is to mine. And mining is getting 2 times more pointless with every halvening. That is an optimistic estimation and is precise only in condition is number of miners remains constant. If number of miners doubles within one halvening period, mining will get 4 times more pointless!

Satoshi (and small group early miners):  huge reward in return of computing power                        $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
After few halvenings (much bigger group of miners): 2 times less money in return of same task                $$$$$$$$
Now (huge group of miners): many times less money for same task                                                             $

A clear pyramid.

b) Pyramids are defined as schemes that dont involve a real product behind it. BTC supporters claim, they have product. Well, I say, its just a camouflage. Kyäni masked scheme with juice drink, Kairosplaner masked scheme with whole user interface. They were still schemes.

BTC is scheme because it can not be scaled to necessary volumes (or even nearly close) and this information is kept secret. Instead of admitting it, users are promised with savious like lightning network etc.

2) BTC is also a ponzi scheme.

In Ponzi schemes "investors" are being paid with money, that come from new joiners. That is also the case with BTC. You can earn either with mining (which is a pyramid) or by selling Your coins to Greater Fool. Although this is well masked with sites, that do BTC brokering and give quite authentic feeling of trading with real "asset", its not the case. Only way, You earn with BTC, is by selling it to another person.

3) BTC is also a pump and dump scheme. For understanding that, You should read more about this kind of frauds and then start to record BTC price change. Every important price change (without exceptions) happens in few minutes, leaving other users outside pumpers a marginal change to react. I know, it sounds rude, but thats how it is.
Median transfer value is several hundred dollars, while few whales drive to to several thousands.

I´m sorry, I dnt have any better news for those who sincerely think, BTC is a phenomenal technology and investment opportunity.

I don’t even want to listen these kind of statements or I would say that I got fed after listening the same statement every time as I know this thing very well that these all are rumours as bitcoin itself is a very huge and potentiating crypto currency and that is why is on the top of all the crypto currencies and moreover is very sustainable and very profitable investment and thus has provided employment to millions of people around the world and I think morons are those people who consider bitcoin’s end is near.

[West0813]

Everyone has different views about bitcoin. And if thats your view then so be it. But why there are still so many investors that invest in bitcoin if  its a scam or ponzi scheme?

[StephKram]

"b) Pyramids are defined as schemes that dont involve a real product behind it. BTC supporters claim, they have product. Well, I say, its just a camouflage. Kyäni masked scheme with juice drink, Kairosplaner masked scheme with whole user interface. They were still schemes."

I disagree.  I believe there is a real product as I use it to pay for goods and services.  I have one merchant I use in China while I'm in Canada.  I can trasfer this payment with public proof and last time a .03 cent fee.  I would say there is one hell of a product right there. 

[jcarlo]

Bitcoin is not like multi level marketing. Bitcoin is a buble because bitcoin back up by secure network. If bitcoin is pyramid scheme, why goldman sachs buying poloniex and have plan to open bitcoin trading investment. This issue always repeated for years but bitcoin always survive and growing more bigger

[dohh]

"b) Pyramids are defined as schemes that dont involve a real product behind it. BTC supporters claim, they have product. Well, I say, its just a camouflage. Kyäni masked scheme with juice drink, Kairosplaner masked scheme with whole user interface. They were still schemes."

I disagree.  I believe there is a real product as I use it to pay for goods and services.  I have one merchant I use in China while I'm in Canada.  I can trasfer this payment with public proof and last time a .03 cent fee.  I would say there is one hell of a product right there. 

I know. Good pyramids camouflage absence of product very well. Or they use "product", that is "working" in limited way. For example, if BTC designers know, that BTC can not be scaled in amounts, that would be necessary for BTC to act like currency, it makes BTC actually a scheme.

I know, that some dealers accept BTC, because they can cash it in. It doesnt make BTC less scheme.

[dohh]

Bitcoin is not like multi level marketing. Bitcoin is a buble because bitcoin back up by secure network. If bitcoin is pyramid scheme, why goldman sachs buying poloniex and have plan to open bitcoin trading investment. This issue always repeated for years but bitcoin always survive and growing more bigger

BTC is not MLM, it has compounds of different schemes. Its a p&d scheme, with elements of ponzi and pyramid.

Why Goldman has not opened trading yet? It would be a big business for them. They suspect its a scheme. No other reason.

[amishmanish]

Idea is motivating, but so is hard disc rental (known Kairosplanet scam). Mathematically and logically decentralized blockchain cryptocurrency is quite impossible. I say "quite", because solution would be very uneffective. Now You argue, that BTC has done it already. It hasnt. I has told bubbles, bubbles, bubbles... BTC scalability issues are NOT SOLVABLE in this method. It is just not possible to pass ALL INFORMATION TO ALL PARTICIPANTS, when amount of both, information and participants is evergrowing exponentially.

There is nothing new in saying that decentralization is hard. It is known for decades now and has been a topic of discussion a million times here. You somehow want to blame Satoshi for being the mastermind of an evil plan (that i feel has cost you some money at the ATH). The direct and simpler way of looking at it is to realize that the quest for a peer-to-peer electronic cash system is older than bitcoin. All previous implementations needed a central authority. Bitcoin solved the problem of trust without relying on a central party through its PoW consensus mechanism. That in itself is the culmination of years of work in cryptography and electronic cash systems.

The quest for peer-to-peer electronic cash is not just a technical one but also a socio-economic one. The adoption of bitcoin weakens the control banks and governments have over those who choose to use it. For a long time now, these technical achievements and socio-economic ideals have drowned in the spam posting.

BTC is a scam, illustrated with beautyful words of promising technologies. There will not be (working) lightning network. If it will, its just another level of scamming and it would probably require to deposit Your coins somewhere. And thats not decentralized again.

Telling You one more time: what BTC is meant to be doing, is impossible.

Lightning Network already works, though it is not for everyone yet. bitcoin as a technology is here and has been tested robustly. The debate over mining centralization, privacy features continues as healthily as ever. LN will arrive too and then it will be ready for mass adoption. Whether people wish to use it or not will be up to them. Saying that it is an "intentional scam" is just one of those crazy-pot conspiracy theories. Frustrated, naysaying rants like this one are just one of the defining phenomena of a prolonged bear market.

[Geemy]

It 's better to leave this field because it' s not trustworthy than many false news

[Legendari]

This is not proof - this is the point of view of one person who does not like crypto. I don't see any evidence of your judgment, so it's empty.

[MainIbem]

There is the paradox of the message and the messenger. Research shows that most times, the focus is put on the messenger than the message.

Your opinion just remind me of that paradox.
Bitcoin is the messenger and blockchain technology is the message. You have left the message and focus on the messenger. And it is very easy to form the wrong conclusion when you have a misplaced focus.

A whole lot of people are in this misplaced focus about bitcoin.

[shivansps]

You didn't understand what is bitcoin. If you say it is ponzi scheme then what you think about USD as a currency? Some group of people can easily order to their own Reserve Fund to print any amount of USD anytime, thus creating huge inflation in many countries. Huh?

I'm not going to teach you, but if you think it is ponzi and pyramid just leave this space and then come back to buy bitcoin when it hits new ATH.

[Romeotom]

Responsibility is the real that bitcoin digital currency,but your opinion is good think.your proof interested but I don't know how many trust this article. Actually I read it many many false news about bitcoin to the some social media,youtube,facebook,and Twitter.

[Matthewlee]

Selling bitcoin is a great loss. All I can say is that we do not need to fear constant price cuts because that is a normal thing in cryptography. But so far bitcoin still exists. After following this topic, I just realized that you have a fixed mind and you have not really created this thread to invite fair arguments. If you think Btc is not worth it, just leave it and leave it to those who believe in this technology

[FlightyPouch]

Everyone has different views about bitcoin. And if thats your view then so be it. But why there are still so many investors that invest in bitcoin if  its a scam or ponzi scheme?

The way Bitcoin price moves depends on the investors of that certain crypto currency since the price of Bitcoin follows that law of the Demand and Supply, the higher the Demand, the higher the price of it and if that demand get lower, the price decreases and that is where the investors go in to invest again making an effect to increase it up again, the cycle goes on and I guess that is the reason why there are a lot of investors of Bitcoin and that is also my view the reason why Bitcoin will continue to push on making new records of ATHs.

[killat]

BTC is far from the end, but most people who bought BTC don't even know what it is used for. They thought it was a get-rich-quick scheme and jumped into the bandwagon without knowing shit.

What results is too much supply and low demand, and now the ratio is slowly scaling down until demand increases and supply goes back down from people who have no idea what BTC, or rather cryptocurrency really is.