Why are so many people Anti-Bitcoin?

[klaus]

the ignore button is a possibility...

sorry for quoting myself.

i wish someone of the mods / or someone else reliable  make a list of users a real bitcoin fan can 'ignore' without any research on his history. a list of just the hardest, 50 or 100 trolls would this board really make clean !

[Tuxavant]

i wish someone of the mods / or someone else reliable  make a list of users a real bitcoin fan can 'ignore' without any research on his history. a list of just the hardest, 50 or 100 trolls would this board really make clean !

What's just a *little* bit funny about this is, there are a few trolls on my ignore list that I'll temporarily unignore just to see what the idiots are saying. I always laugh at myself when I do too because my original plan was spot on.

[Jalum]

As for your question regarding buying with Bitcoins vs Paypal I don't think anyone is making the case one is better then the other

Umm, this forum is full of threads declaring the superiority of bitcoin over every other transaction method.  In truth, it's only theoretically superior and only in a few ways.

just the fact we can have a decentralized system for making payments. I mean look at wikileaks and how they have come to a complete halt due to Visa/MasterCard/ Paypal and everyone else cutting off their access to funds.

But if that's the scope of distribution for bitcoin, the price will surely be back under a penny before too long.  Very very few people here care about it's viability as a currency: they just want to get rich quick.  Hence all the desperate calls to spread the idea of bitcoin without providing valuable bitcoin services or goods.  And no, a person who buys you a prepaid VISA card for 20% markup is not a valuable bitcoin service.

[kokjo]

3 simple reasons:
1. new.
2. different.
3. demonized in the media.

[Dan The Man]

To take it down to an individual, psychiatric level, you have to realize there were a great many people in the blogs & media who were hyping Bitcoin six months ago -- without ever actually having possessed a Bitcoin or having any idea how to set up the client. They were hyping it because other people were hyping it. These are the same people who are busy attacking it now. They want to be the first on the bandwagon to declare its death, so they don't look foolish for incorrectly calling its success.

I think you are improperly using the word psychiatric.

[Dan The Man]

But if that's the scope of distribution for bitcoin, the price will surely be back under a penny before too long.  Very very few people here care about it's viability as a currency: they just want to get rich quick.  Hence all the desperate calls to spread the idea of bitcoin without providing valuable bitcoin services or goods.  And no, a person who buys you a prepaid VISA card for 20% markup is not a valuable bitcoin service.

I want to get rich slowly. That means that I will always hold onto some minimum amount of Bitcoins for speculative purposes. Speculative value only last's as long as the speculation time frame. I think for a lot of optimimsts that time frame is fairly long, so expect the speculative value to stick around. I have no immediate or near future use for bitcoins. I don't need them in any way shape or form. But I bet other people could, so I value them. I am a speculator.

[bbit]

the ignore button is a possibility...

sorry for quoting myself.

i wish someone of the mods / or someone else reliable  make a list of users a real bitcoin fan can 'ignore' without any research on his history. a list of just the hardest, 50 or 100 trolls would this board really make clean !

At the very least a "sticky" so people can just go through the list and hit ignore

[danman87]

But more to the OP, what can I buy with bitcoins that I cannot buy with paypal?  Ok, drugs from Silk Road.  What else?

Not much... yet... but we want an alternative to fiat money. We want anonymity. We want to backup our money (without FDIC). We dont want inflation. We want control.

Tell us how Paypal will help us with that?

Paypal is the wrong example. Tell me what I can buy with Bitcoins that I can't buy with Verifone?

[kokjo]

But more to the OP, what can I buy with bitcoins that I cannot buy with paypal?  Ok, drugs from Silk Road.  What else?

Not much... yet... but we want an alternative to fiat money. We want anonymity. We want to backup our money (without FDIC). We dont want inflation. We want control.

Tell us how Paypal will help us with that?

Paypal is the wrong example. Tell me what I can buy with Bitcoins that I can't buy with Verifone?

nothing(except illegal stuff, but you could also buy that with cash).
but thats not the point.
The Point is:

FREEDOM AS IN FREE SPEECH, NOT AS FREE BEER!

[Rassah]

But more to the OP, what can I buy with bitcoins that I cannot buy with paypal?  Ok, drugs from Silk Road.  What else?

Not much... yet... but we want an alternative to fiat money. We want anonymity. We want to backup our money (without FDIC). We dont want inflation. We want control.

Tell us how Paypal will help us with that?

Paypal is the wrong example. Tell me what I can buy with Bitcoins that I can't buy with Verifone?

Anything from China, India, Russia, or other distant country without a $20 to $40 international transaction fee. So, um, you can buy a lack on an exorbitant fee.

[Jalum]

Not much... yet... but we want an alternative to fiat money.

Considering BTC is priced in fiat money and fiat money begins and ends every BTC transaction, I don't really understand how it's an alternative.

Let me put it this way: has a vendor ever received bitcoins and then spent those bitcoins on a good or service that wasn't basically fiat money?  If there's no second step in the currency chain, it's pointless except as an experiment in giving exchanges money.

We want anonymity.

Ok.  

We want to backup our money (without FDIC).

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  How are your bitcoins backed up?  If you lose them, they're gone.  There will never be an insurance on bitcoins because it would just be a siren call to be defrauded.

We dont want inflation.

Again, this doesn't make sense.  Inflation only matters in terms of spending power, and bitcoin spending power has been incredibly inflationary since it peaked at $30.  You used to be able to buy six Dominoes medium pizzas for a single bitcoin.  Now you need 2-3 for each pizza.  

We want control.

And by control you mean trusting a mysterious third party who developed this whole thing, then trusting money changers to convert your fiat money into some kind of electronic form, then trusting the exchanges to not just disappear with your money or bitcoins, then trusting that the difficulty never gets so low that a real blockchain attack could through the whole thing into disrepair, then finally trust that a vendor who accepts your bitcoins won't just vanish with them because you cannot prove that your bitcoins went to someone else (yay anonymity).

Tell us how Paypal will help us with that?

You have some very strange requirements for your currency that are not shared by many people.  Libertarians, the free market has spoken.

[bulanula]

Not much... yet... but we want an alternative to fiat money.

Considering BTC is priced in fiat money and fiat money begins and ends every BTC transaction, I don't really understand how it's an alternative.

Let me put it this way: has a vendor ever received bitcoins and then spent those bitcoins on a good or service that wasn't basically fiat money?  If there's no second step in the currency chain, it's pointless except as an experiment in giving exchanges money.

We want anonymity.

Ok.  

We want to backup our money (without FDIC).

This doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  How are your bitcoins backed up?  If you lose them, they're gone.  There will never be an insurance on bitcoins because it would just be a siren call to be defrauded.

We dont want inflation.

Again, this doesn't make sense.  Inflation only matters in terms of spending power, and bitcoin spending power has been incredibly inflationary since it peaked at $30.  You used to be able to buy six Dominoes medium pizzas for a single bitcoin.  Now you need 2-3 for each pizza.  

We want control.

And by control you mean trusting a mysterious third party who developed this whole thing, then trusting money changers to convert your fiat money into some kind of electronic form, then trusting the exchanges to not just disappear with your money or bitcoins, then trusting that the difficulty never gets so low that a real blockchain attack could through the whole thing into disrepair, then finally trust that a vendor who accepts your bitcoins won't just vanish with them because you cannot prove that your bitcoins went to someone else (yay anonymity).

Tell us how Paypal will help us with that?

You have some very strange requirements for your currency that are not shared by many people.  Libertarians, the free market has spoken.

All valid points, especially the first one. BTC is just a proxy currency ATM. Even if you get businesses accepting BTC it will be quite a while before suppliers take BTC. For an example : imagine Nestle accepts BTC but I am 99% sure that the cocoa farmers accept USD only in Colombia or whatever. More adoption will not raise price like some people seem to think.

[kokjo]

We want control.

And by control you mean trusting a mysterious third party who developed this whole thing, then trusting money changers to convert your fiat money into some kind of electronic form, then trusting the exchanges to not just disappear with your money or bitcoins, then trusting that the difficulty never gets so low that a real blockchain attack could through the whole thing into disrepair, then finally trust that a vendor who accepts your bitcoins won't just vanish with them because you cannot prove that your bitcoins went to someone else (yay anonymity).

go read the source! no mysterious third party, the whole thing is clearly readable.
and exchanges are not to be trusted, and so are banks too.
real blockchain attacks DO NOT HAPPEN, in reality. (yet, and hopefully never will)

all your trust issues, can be solved by reputation. i would never buy from someone that i did not know, or do not have a reputation.

[DeathAndTaxes]

You have some very strange requirements for your currency that are not shared by many people.  Libertarians, the free market has spoken.

Bitcoin hasn't even been around 3 years.  It really hasn't had any significant follow for more than a year.  I'll give the free market a little more time to decide.

By your logic free market rejected:
the internet
the personal computer
paypal
ebay
credit cards

What I don't get is why you are here.  We got it you think Bitcoin will fail.  Fine.  Lots of people think that.  99% of mainstream media articles are negative.  The comments of every non-bitcoin blog that runs a bitcoin story are full of 10,000 of you.  We get it you are 100% convinced that bitcoin will fail.  

Which is more sad ... people struggling on a project that ultimately fails or they sad little man who wastes years of his life to be there when it happens.

"See I told you.  I spent 5 years on this forum to be able to say I told you bitcoin would fail".  Meh.

[Explodicle]

I know no one wants to admit it now, but some of you have spent tens of thousands of dollars on hardware to "mine" bitcoins.  There are people who bought into the idea of bitcoins @ $28 each, then bought more at every step downward.  Those people are victims who were led astray by this community.

Very very few people here care about it's viability as a currency: they just want to get rich quick.

These are the exact same people.

Considering BTC is priced in fiat money and fiat money begins and ends every BTC transaction, I don't really understand how it's an alternative.

I think you're being a little hyperbolic when you say every BTC transaction. I too suspect that it's mostly currency speculation right now, but we can never tell for sure what it's all being used for.

And by control you mean trusting a mysterious third party who developed this whole thing, then trusting money changers to convert your fiat money into some kind of electronic form, then trusting the exchanges to not just disappear with your money or bitcoins, then trusting that the difficulty never gets so low that a real blockchain attack could through the whole thing into disrepair, then finally trust that a vendor who accepts your bitcoins won't just vanish with them because you cannot prove that your bitcoins went to someone else (yay anonymity).

Mysterious development: You don't need to trust Satoshi, you can check the code and compile it yourself. Or if you lack those skills, you can find a trusted party to do it for you.
You can exchange with anyone. If for some reason you trust me, I will sell you Bitcoins.
Bitcoins are not anonymous. If you're worried a vendor will deny payment, get them to sign their receiving address so you can post a block explorer link proving you paid.

[Tuxavant]

Bitcoins are not anonymous.

Sorry, as long as I keep hearing this, I will repeat... "Yes they can be". Otherwise, great speech! 8D

[Explodicle]

Bitcoins are not anonymous.

Sorry, as long as I keep hearing this, I will repeat... "Yes they can be". Otherwise, great speech! 8D

It's the best of both worlds - you CAN make them anonymous, but you can also prove that an address has been paid.

[pusle]

The problem is people are so narrow minded.

Here is a technology making it possible to do everything the banks does by yourself!
I mean talk about empowering people.  How so many people fail to see this is beyond me.
Think about never having to deal with a bank ever again, aaaah the thought makes me feel all warm and fuzzy ^^

You wanna change the system? well here is your chance. Why do you think there is so much inequality in the world.
It's all rigged to favor the people on top. Sure you can speak your mind but you're still a slave to the debt based money monopoly of the banks. Bitcoin is the greatest weapon ever invented to change all this. With asia, middle east and africa coming online more and more it's only a matter of time before this explodes.

OK I agree you can't really know right now if Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme or not. Only time will tell.
I applaud all the people here who spend their time and money trying to change the world for the better.
 
Bitcoin may die, but the idea will never die. So we get bitcoin 2.0, 3.0, brix 5.0 whatever.
The Genie is out of the bottle, and it will never go back in.

[Jalum]

What I don't get is why you are here.  We got it you think Bitcoin will fail.  Fine.  Lots of people think that.  99% of mainstream media articles are negative.  The comments of every non-bitcoin blog that runs a bitcoin story are full of 10,000 of you.  We get it you are 100% convinced that bitcoin will fail.

Bitcoins failure is the least interesting thing about this now.  Here is the delicious food that keeps the outsiders visiting:

1.  Libertarians with poorly thought out ideas.  Atlas reigns supreme at this.  But other gems like logansryche and Matthew N. Wright help add to the Greatest Hits of Bitcoin.

2.  Scammers.  Hopefully Bruce will get bored of laying low and trying to get OWS folks to shower in his apartment.

3.  Desperation.  You can smell it a mile away.  Each time the price of BTC dips, you see the threads pop up with terrible ideas about how to spread knowledge of the existence of bitcoin without improving the services or products.

Which is more sad ... people struggling on a project that ultimately fails or they sad little man who wastes years of his life to be there when it happens.

"See I told you.  I spent 5 years on this forum to be able to say I told you bitcoin would fail".  Meh.

If I can just keep one person from losing their shirt on this stupid shit, it will all have been worth it.

[Etlase2]

I think even some of the haters believe but just try to drive down the price while they secretly invest.

For the other haters, they are just ignorant/sociopathic trolls disrupting innovation.

And then there the anti-shills/false flag types sent here to disrupt the evolution and propagation of the Bitcoin movement.

LOL so instead of the most obvious reason that people have a problem with other people being suckered into a pyramid scheme, it must be one of these conspiracy-theory options. Screw occam's razor.

And, of course, there is absolutely no chance that the large majority of the people making posts like this have nothing to gain in doing so. It's all so innocent, just buy and tell your friends.