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Author Topic: Why are so many people Anti-Bitcoin?  (Read 6759 times)
Rassah
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October 31, 2011, 08:27:53 PM
 #41

spread knowledge of the existence of bitcoin without improving the services or products.

This part I've always found most confusing. By saying Bitcoin doesn't have services and products, I guess you are implying that USD has services and products? So, what is a product of US dollars?

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October 31, 2011, 08:28:11 PM
 #42

OK I agree you can't really know right now if Bitcoin is a ponzi scheme or not.

Of course you can know. Bitcoin only requires "new blood" in the context of adoption. Nobody needs to "buy in". You could very easily provide a good or service and simply receive your Bitcoin. Once everyone sees and agrees that a value can be transferred with it (easily and feeless), then the ability to spend those earned Bitcoins will be ubiquitous throughout the world.

Edit: Bitcoin will not fail as long as *any two people* agree that a value can be transferred between them.

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October 31, 2011, 08:41:44 PM
 #43

Of course you can know. Bitcoin only requires "new blood" in the context of adoption. Nobody needs to "buy in". You could very easily provide a good or service and simply receive your Bitcoin. Once everyone sees and agrees that a value can be transferred with it (easily and feeless with low cost), then the ability to spend those earned Bitcoins will be ubiquitous throughout the world.

Edit: Bitcoin will not fail as long as *any two people* agree that a value can be transferred between them.

Saying bitcoin is "free" (as in "free beer") is not a good idea.  It is only "free" now due to block subsidies.  When block subisides are reduced or eliminated there will still be a need to fund the network.  That will come from transaction fees.  Personally I think low cost is more plausible and less likely to be considered some kind of "magical money from nowhere" system than free.  Nothing in life if free and that include Bitcoin.
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October 31, 2011, 08:49:33 PM
 #44

Agreed. Free inevitably leads to thinking "Too good to be true." Even scammers know that if you want to scam someone, you have to make them feel like they worked for it (by scammers I mean salesmen, though there's often little difference).

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October 31, 2011, 08:50:44 PM
 #45

Saying bitcoin is "free" (as in "free beer") is not a good idea.  It is only "free" now due to block subsidies.  When block subisides are reduced or eliminated there will still be a need to fund the network.  That will come from transaction fees.  Personally I think low cost is more plausible and less likely to be considered some kind of "magical money from nowhere" system than free.  Nothing in life if free and that include Bitcoin.

I understand what you're saying, but the difference between free and 1/1000th of a penny is close enough at this point in time (for me). The minor details can be explained after the people I'm proselytizing to understand the "bigger picture". If I'm talking with somone who's interested, I'll take the few extra seconds to explain transaction fees, but in a bullet list for some passer-by, I have no moral issues saying they are "fee-less transactions".

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Gerald Davis


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October 31, 2011, 08:59:17 PM
 #46

Saying bitcoin is "free" (as in "free beer") is not a good idea.  It is only "free" now due to block subsidies.  When block subisides are reduced or eliminated there will still be a need to fund the network.  That will come from transaction fees.  Personally I think low cost is more plausible and less likely to be considered some kind of "magical money from nowhere" system than free.  Nothing in life if free and that include Bitcoin.

I understand what you're saying, but the difference between free and 1/1000th of a penny is close enough at this point in time (for me). The minor details can be explained after the people I'm proselytizing to understand the "bigger picture". If I'm talking with somone who's interested, I'll take the few extra seconds to explain transaction fees, but in a bullet list for some passer-by, I have no moral issues saying they are "fee-less transactions".

If you think it will be 1/1000th of a penny you haven't considered how expensive the network is to run and maintain or how much the subsidies are currently.  Currently it is 2.6 million BTC per year in subsidies.  Eventually that will be 0. 

Lets say someday Bitcoin could bring in Paypal level transaction volume ~100 tps.  At 1/1000th penny per transaction that would be 0.1 penny per second or ~ $0.60 per block in transaction fees.  Even at 4000 tps (VISA scale transaction volume) that would be 4 cents per second or ~$24 per block.   Today block rewards are $160 per block.
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October 31, 2011, 09:10:40 PM
 #47

Lets say someday Bitcoin could bring in Paypal level transaction volume ~100 tps.  At 1/1000th penny per transaction that would be 0.1 penny per second or ~ $0.60 per block in transaction fees.  Even at 4000 tps (VISA scale transaction volume) that would be 4 cents per second or ~$24 per block.   Today block rewards are $160 per block.

I'm not a number cruncher, but just off the top of my head (I admit I could be way off on this), it seems that this might promote individual/distributed mining even more - as opposed to a few super mega asic power house mining camps.

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October 31, 2011, 09:31:16 PM
 #48

BTW guys, this is what I'm handing out (with candy) tonight



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October 31, 2011, 09:53:00 PM
 #49

BTW guys, this is what I'm handing out (with candy) tonight




That's a little tl;dr for some kids these days.  You might want to just put:
"BITCOIN
Get free money here: <link>"

(BFL)^2 < 0
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October 31, 2011, 10:18:27 PM
 #50

That's a little tl;dr for some kids these days.  You might want to just put:
"BITCOIN
Get free money here: <link>"

Any responsible adult would see this long before any kid does.

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November 01, 2011, 02:35:04 AM
 #51

That's a little tl;dr for some kids these days.  You might want to just put:
"BITCOIN
Get free money here: <link>"

Any responsible adult would see this long before any kid does.

I could see it now! A parent finds the note and decides to Google "Bitcoin". She first sees Rassah's coffee table, members wanting to commit suicide, and a convention in Pattaya. Then she asks Jr. if he remembers which house the note came from. Jr. remembers because it's the only house that he got paper with his candy. "It's the house with the old pickup in the driveway and the orange B in the window."
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November 01, 2011, 02:43:48 AM
 #52

I could see it now! A parent finds the note and decides to Google "Bitcoin". She first sees Rassah's coffee table, members wanting to commit suicide, and a convention in Pattaya. Then she asks Jr. if he remembers which house the note came from. Jr. remembers because it's the only house that he got paper with his candy. "It's the house with the old pickup in the driveway and the orange B in the window."


LOL Thanks for the insight into your google targeted search results... Mine search reveals no such content!

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Gerald Davis


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November 01, 2011, 03:07:22 AM
 #53

That's a little tl;dr for some kids these days.  You might want to just put:
"BITCOIN
Get free money here: <link>"

Any responsible adult would see this long before any kid does.

I could see it now! A parent finds the note and decides to Google "Bitcoin". She first sees Rassah's coffee table, members wanting to commit suicide, and a convention in Pattaya. Then she asks Jr. if he remembers which house the note came from. Jr. remembers because it's the only house that he got paper with his candy. "It's the house with the old pickup in the driveway and the orange B in the window."


Are you sure you didn't accidently search for CrazyCoin?

http://www.google.com/search?q=bitcoin

Top 10 results:
1) Wikipedia - Bitcoin
2) Bitcoin.org
3) Bitcoincharts
4) Mt. Gox
5) We Use Coins (What is Bitcoin?)
6) Bitcoin Wiki
7) "Bitcoin Economy is Collapsing" (The Atlantic)
Cool "I didn't invent Bitcoin" (The Irish Times)
9) Bitcoin Miner  <- Huh Really.  Some one has been doing some SEO
10) BitcoinMe <- Huh Another shocker

Interestingly bitcointalk isn't in top 10, or top 50.  It is #68.  Ouch.  Still top 10 (all 99% of searchers see) is pretty good.  Would be nice it the Atlantic Article fell off the from page along with the pump & dump garbage (BitcoinMe).  Maybe adding in bitcoin.stackexchange.com and bitcointalk.org.  Still pretty good Google first impression.

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November 01, 2011, 03:27:06 AM
 #54

I could see it now! A parent finds the note and decides to Google "Bitcoin". She first sees Rassah's coffee table, members wanting to commit suicide, and a convention in Pattaya. Then she asks Jr. if he remembers which house the note came from. Jr. remembers because it's the only house that he got paper with his candy. "It's the house with the old pickup in the driveway and the orange B in the window."


LOL Thanks for the insight into your google targeted search results... Mine search reveals no such content!

Satire!

Of course what I mentioned wouldn't come up on page one on mine, yours, or their Google search. But if a person wanted to dig further, they may probably find what I mentioned. I wasn't even implying that it was a good or bad idea. In fact, I leaned towards it being a smart idea.

As far as my Google target search results goes, every time I Google "Bitcoin" I get Rassah's coffee table.

Speaking of Google target search results, I have a gmail account I only use for my reclaimed barn wood enterprise. On the right side, I used to only see ads for lumber, flooring, wood furniture, etc. Now about 20% of the ads are about memory sticks and other computer related stuff, none of which is mentioned in my incoming and outgoing mail which is how those ads are supposed to be generated from. The only way they got there is because I stay longed into that account on Google and all my activity is archived under that name. No way should it be in my gmail account as outlined in their TOS.
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November 01, 2011, 04:31:42 AM
 #55

You know, you're the only douche who keeps bringing up my totally awesome table. Maybe if you didn't mention it in every post, it wouldn't show up on google search results as much  Roll Eyes

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November 01, 2011, 05:02:10 AM
 #56


Bitcoins are not anonymous.

Sorry, as long as I keep hearing this, I will repeat... "Yes they can be". Otherwise, great speech! 8D

I essentially stopped reading here:
Quote
As an example, let us consider a software developer. ... He can ... protect the Intellectual Property with encryption

DRM can never and has never worked. You have to defeat "cause and effect" to force DRM to work. This oversight tells me you have not thought enough about the steps required to foster annonymity.

Using TOR to separate your identities is not enough. You have to ensure that each of your (virtual) machines have a different (or at least generic) software configuration as well. Advertisers (like facebook and Google) are storing an increasing amount of data. I would caution you not to underestimate potential advances in data de-annonymization in the comming years.

James' OpenPGP public key fingerprint: EB14 9E5B F80C 1F2D 3EBE  0A2F B3DE 81FF 7B9D 5160
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November 01, 2011, 05:21:09 AM
 #57

You know, you're the only douche who keeps bringing up my totally awesome table. Maybe if you didn't mention it in every post, it wouldn't show up on YOUR google search results as much  Roll Eyes

Fixed that for you!
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November 01, 2011, 05:40:32 AM
 #58

All the wild conspiracy theories are the correct answer.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that you are limited in cashing out deposits, or that investing/spending bitcoins has literally a 50/50 chance of someone taking your coins and running.

Nearly every bitcoin business venture has turned out to be a total out-and-out scam and you have had two ponzi schemes that were brazenly labeled as such.

Exchanges shut down regularly and often without any warning or explanation.  They are also hacked multiple times.

Mybitcoin shut down and offered you guys 49% of your coins back and you treated it as a victory.

Your list of bitcoin accepting vendors is 90% broken links and 10% stuff that could be bought cheaper with USD.

Anything you can buy with bitcoins still ends up converted into fiat money.  Bitcoin serves as a pointless middleman, not a currency in and of itself.

Your own bitcoin conventions don't accept payments in bitcoin.  Big confidence builder there.

Rampant scamming.

Bitcoins can be and often are permanently lost.

Using an exchange, bitcoins are not anonymous, they are linked to your bank account and can easily be traced back to it.

MtGox is just a repurposed Magic: The Gathering trading card website.  Magic: The Gathering Online Exchange.  This is entirely ignored.

Bitcoin adherents generally won't accept any criticism, no matter how valid. It's like watching a cat trying to bury his shit in a bathtub, funny, yet sad.  Any differing opinion is regarded as trolling.  This is so bad, even after solid legal evidence of Bruce's scamming, he was still widely defended here.

I will say, though, that as a piece of software, Bitcoin is pretty solid.  The community just sucks, though.  You guys need to stop labeling everyone who disagrees with you as trolls.  You make a lot of noise about the free exchange of ideas, but you sure as hell don't really believe it.
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November 01, 2011, 07:51:09 AM
 #59

They lost money lol
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November 01, 2011, 09:58:14 AM
 #60

Quote
Exchanges shut down regularly and often without any warning or explanation.  They are also hacked multiple times.

Mybitcoin shut down and offered you guys 49% of your coins back and you treated it as a victory.
You are speaking about the real economy.

Banks and accounts get regularly hacked, estimates are about billions of $ each year hacked and stolen
Greek bond will be paid only 50% or so

See? Bitcoin is not different
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